However, even with all the advantages a monk has, they are still not the stars of combat. The reason for that is simple; they simply do not do enough damage with each hit. Although the monk can flurry and do a huge amount of damage over a full round each hit is very small. Many high level monsters (and even some lower level ones) have large DR values that a monk would be hard pressed to penetrate without carrying a number of weapons to combat each situation. This is assuming that the monk character happens to know what sort of DR the monster even had.
Fighters deal with this situation decently because any fighter worth his salt should be able to deal more damage per hit than damage reduction could negate. Wizards and Clerics deal powerful magical damage or buff themselves into readiness. A rogue who skirts the edges of combat may get into flanking position and sneak attack with impunity against many (but not all) enemies. Fortunately, there are a number of tactics that a monk can use to bypass DR without resorting to buying a variety of aligned weapons or multiclassing away (sadly forever, unless you take the PHB 2 into account) from your unique monk.
Do more Damage
Size matters in monk damage, which is why small monks are seen relatively rarely. As you increase to medium size, the damage dealt becomes more respectable. So, why not just make your monk large size to take advantage of the greater impact potential that large size has. This can be as easy as a potion of enlarge person. Or if you’re friends with the cleric, righteous might (one of my favorite buff spells). For example, a medium monk of level 9 deals 1d10 damage + strength mod per hit. A large monk of level 9 deals 2d8 + strength mod (which generally increases with size). Suddenly, average damage rises by 3 or 4 per hit with much higher max damage. Almost as importantly, your chance of rolling absolute minimum damage falls from 1:10 to 1:64. Although making your monk larger isn’t always practical, it can make a big difference in a situation where you have space to work with. Not to mention it makes for a great dramatic moment for all you story gamers out there.
Align Yourself
Monk’s fists (or whatever part of the body you like) count as manufactured weapons. A potion of align weapon (you may have to carry a few to cover various alignments) can make those DR problems disappear in a heartbeat. This is far cheaper than carrying around aligned weapons, and you can use your superior unarmed damage. Although it doesn’t erase the problem of knowing which alignment to take for enemies you’re unfamiliar with, it’s still a lot cheaper (100 gp per potion) than the alternative. As an added bonus, few thieves will be tempted to steal (or even bother with) a potion when the paladins +5 SWORD OF RIDICULOUS POWER is there for the taking.
Performing Great Feats
Power Attack is a great feat, USE IT! In the case of high DR creatures, it can be the difference between doing nothing with your attacks or something. Also, don’t overlook grabbing feats like Flying Kick and Fists of Iron (CW) that add bonus dice to your damage. Mixing them up can provide even greater benefits. For example, if you charged and Power Attacked together with the Flying Kick feat, you would do your normal damage plus 1d12 for the flying kick plus damage for power attack with the charge offsetting some of the penalties.
Mix it Up
Any military tactician (or even a fool) can tell you that using the same tactics over and over will lead to your demise at some point. So make sure you try different things. Combat is ever-changing, so you must be too. If you fight the same enemies over and over or if your enemy has a chance to study you, they will find a way to counter any single tactic. Try one of these or all of these in battle, as I’m sure you will find that they can overcome a wide variety of situations.
In conclusion, monks are some of the most flexible characters in the game, so why should you have to compromise the unique flavor of the character to beat DR? Isn’t much more fun and dramatic to be the quick-moving, fast-striking, hard hitting warrior who will have enemies pulling hair out of their head just trying to figure out how to deal with you? If you want to be a monk, go ahead; blow them out of the water. They won’t expect it!
Any monk with the Vow of Poverty feat is exceptionally dangerous and can have up to 10 attacks per round at epic levels with the appropriate Two-Weapon Fighting feats purchased (first, Improved, Greater, and then finally Perfect at epic levels). Having 2d12 plus Str modifier plus whatever other extra damage some feats may provide against evil creatures is nothing to sneeze at.
The main problem I’ve found with monks is I very very rarely roll stats appropriate to play the class. If you're doing point buy the situation is even worse, you may end up with a 16 strength pre gear if you're lucky. My DM loves demons and devils and we invariably face them in games. The solution of align weapon is fine but as is with any oil or potion taking a standard action to apply it to 1 fist when combat only lasts 2 rounds isn’t a preferable option. Don't forget the short duration of these effects; a single dungeon crawl can require multiple oils, one per fist 2-3 times by the time you're out of there. If DR is really a persistent problem don’t forget you can always 2h a double weapon. Take power attack for 1:2, get 1.5x your strength and perhaps consider taking the decisive strike option over flurry of blows. At the start of the game I've found this strategy works extremely well. Lvl 4 monk as above can full round for about 30 damage on a single attack which gets by DR just fine.
DR does not challenge against damage over the entire round. Each attack roll must individually pass against damage reduction. Example: I do four attacks vs DR 10: 7,9,15,12. The first two are negated so my total damage that round is only 7. Unless I misunderstood the way you did it, the opponent would have taken 33 points of damage
As far as DR goes, I DO like Water Splitting Stone from the same book, however. It even helps vs. DR/-, which is especially nice since you'll often end up in the positives vs. Barbs and other creatures with just a few /- points of DR.
Still, I'm surprised there hasn't been a set of high-level feats that allow one to overcome material and alignment-based damage reduction with unarmed strikes. House-feats like that would not be unreasonable, I feel.
Also, if you’re willing to take hit to your monk progression with a prestige class you can dip into Kensai to add weapon style enhancement directly to your unarmed strikes....
There is a feat out of the PHB II that gives you a +4 on damage rolls against foes with DR that you can’t bypass. There is also a ring of adamantine from the book of exalted deeds and the sanctify weapons feat makes your unarmed strikes count as good (though it requires charisma, but we houserule wisdom or charisma in our games).
There's also the Sense Weakness feat in the Draconomicon that bypasses 5 points of DR.
Feats there are a-plenty that will increase damage dealt. Improved Natural Attack is apparently legal for Monks to use, and increases their damage to that dealt by a Large creature. Do not forget your ki-strike (magic, lawful and adamantine). Fists of Iron is also useful, and Axiomatic Strike will not only bypass dr/lawful but do an extra 2d6 damage. I don't have the PHB II, but it apparently contains some other feats which can improve monk damage.
But if you really want some good options, branch into a second class. Sacred Fist, Enlightened Fist and Fist of Zuoken all give you the options to use magic or psionics to enhance your damage and bypass damage resistance in one way or another. Aligned Attack, Psionic Fist, Greater Psionic Fist and Unavoidable Strike are perfect for the monk who wishes to deal out some heavy damage in one hit to overwhelm or bypass damage resistance. All of the PrCs above give access to spells or powers that can bypass damage resistance.
Items that can help are plentiful. Other than the Amulet of Mighty Fists, what about a belt of strength? Even a few extra points can increase the total damage significantly because of the number of attacks. A cold iron sai and a silver kama can act as a last resort.
Never forget that the monk has the option of fighting smarter, not just harder. Tumble and fighting defensively can make a monk impossible to hit even if they cannot hit back very effectively. A monk can also use grapple, disarm, sunder and trip to keep their foe busy. These are not winning tactics on their own, but if you can keep a powerful foe busy while the rest of the party chop another to bits, you are pulling your weight. All of the tactics for dealing with high-AC opponents can work against high damage resistance opponents.
Lastly, pick your foes. Monks are very effective against spell-caster-type foes with their immunities and saves and their ability to flank and move very fast. If you don't have the power to damage the big bad nasty, let the fighter deal with him while you race in to hit his spell-casting buddy.
melee +15/+5 unarmed strike (3d6+4)
Not bad if I do say so myself. And, yea, I do FoB whenever I get the chance. Plus, as the only house rule my group allows is that whatever D&D world we play in we use the Action Point system found in Eberron (definitely adds to the cinematic flair!).
Consider also some of the cool feats found in past issues of Dragon Magazine, particular April 2005 (under Class Acts for Monks: Worldly Styles), and May 2004 (under Warriors of the Animal Fist), and especially October 2005 (under Class Acts for Monks: Pressure Point Attacks!).
Hope this continues to add to the cinematic creativity that should, imo, always be present when role-playing a monk (as well as increasing their effectiveness).
Also, does the Powerful Build trait give larger sized monk damage or does it not qualify in this respect?
So is it then feasible, if what some of the other poster have said is true, to play a large sized monk (ala Half-Ogre) and then take Improved Natural Attack and do 2d8 damage at level 1 (1d6 for medium, 1d8 for large, 2d6 for improved large)?
Also, does the Powerful Build trait give larger sized monk damage or does it not qualify in this respect?
Yes, and I believe also Yes to the second question.
Now, imagine that Half-Ogre with INA being enlarged as well...
However, you do count as large for purposes of Grappling. Thus, if you are playing a Half-Giant or Goliath Monk, taking Improved Grapple suddenly becomes very, very fun.
1. Half-Ogres are LA +2, which means we're actually talking about an ECL 3.
2. Improved Natural Attack has a requirement of BAB +4. A 1st level character, surprise surprise, isn't going to qualify.
How about a legal build?
By ECL 8 (Half Ogre LA +2, Monk 6) you can have a 1d8 base damage, increased one step by large size, increased another step by INA.
3d6 base damage at ECL 9.
Hmmm, can we do better?
Changeling Monk 6/Warshaper 1/Fighter 1
if we use the 6th level feat for Improved Natural Attack and the fighter bonus feat for Superior Unarmed Strike...
1d10 base, 1 size increase from INA, 1 size increase from Morphic Weapons
3d8 base damage.
More Feats of Interest
Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB II pg. 85)
Snap Kick (ToB pg. 32)
Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB pg. 33)
Also, does the Powerful Build trait give larger sized monk damage or does it not qualify in this respect?
No, because Powerful Build only lets the goliath be treated as one size larger "...for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts)" or "...whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him". The goliath can also "...use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty." So, they don't get to count themselves as one size larger for unarmed attacks.
Yes, and I believe also Yes to the second question.
Now, imagine that Half-Ogre with INA being enlarged as well...
They would have to have the feat that in Races of Destiny lets them count as humanoid, otherwise they are immune to Enlarge Person with their type being giant and all.
Because it was a relic it required either you to give up a spell slot (something a monk can't do) or to have the true believer feat and be a certain level (8th, I believe). All in all it was a great item for a monk approaching the mid-levels.
There is an item in the complete divine book that is pretty impressive for a monk. It was the 'Gauntlet of ', and basically allowed you bonuses similar (and specifically stacking with) the monk’s belt, allowed you to treat your unarmed strike as slashing, and made it a ghost touch weapon.
That would be bahamut's platinum gauntlet. Great thread. A 16th level monk bypasses hardness with unarmed strikes.
So is it then feasible, if what some of the other poster have said is true, to play a large sized monk (ala Half-Ogre) and then take Improved Natural Attack and do 2d8 damage at level 1 (1d6 for medium, 1d8 for large, 2d6 for improved large)?
Also, does the Powerful Build trait give larger sized monk damage or does it not qualify in this respect?
Where do you find the chart for large monk damage? I play 3.0 so I may not have seen it in any of the books and that may be a reason for my ignorance.
Where do you find the chart for large monk damage? I play 3.0 so I may not have seen it in any of the books and that may be a reason for my ignorance.
It is in a side bar in 3.5 player's handbook by the monk class entry. I assume 3.0 did it too. Most people over look it though.
Being friends with the Cleric doesn't help you. Righteous Might is a Personal range spell.
This is where rings of spell storing become very very handy. Another use for them is to have the party Wiz load Shield and Expeditious Retreat spells into it for the party 2-handed-weapon tank to use. Sure, you can't really recharge them during the adventure without sacrificing slots, but they can make the difference.
This is where rings of spell storing become very very handy. .
True. My monk uses them for shield for himself
to combine with mage armor (or bracers or armor if you have them). Normally you cannot use shield as it is a personal spell but casting it out of the ring overcomes that restriction.It may not help with getting through damage reduction but it does help you survive instead.
Alignment-Based DR
As has already been mentioned, Align Weapon can be obtained by spell (from a party member) or by potion/oil. This can be done on monk weapons or on monk unarmed strikes (due to Monks' Unarmed Strike counting as a manufactured weapon). Certain feats (especially in BoED and BoVD) can also provide some benefits.
Magic or Epic DR
Magic Ki Strike comes at a reasonable level, and spells (or potions/oils) like Magic Fang, Magic Weapon or items like Amulet of the Mighty Fists can help out in the meantime. There is also always the option of simply getting a magic Monk weapon. As for Epic, feats and enchantments again provide the answer.
Material-Based DR
Cold Iron, Silver, Adamantine... there may be some feats to help out with this, but I think it's worth mentioning: It's no mistake that exotic monk weapons are small, light and inexpensive. Any monk (without a VoP) should be carrying a silver, iron and adamantine light monk weapon (Kama, Sai, Siangham, etc.) as soon as possible. They can be employed in a flurry of blows, and some provide help in certain attack options (like tripping or disarming), and can be enchanted as well. Considering the material, the specifics for enchantment are rather simplified, as you know what you'll be facing with these weapons. For example, a Cold Iron Kama +1 of Bane (Chaotic Outsiders) + (Fey), or a Silver Sai +1 of Bane (undead) + (lawful outsiders), or an Adamantine Siangham +1 of Bane (constructs).
Raw damage output
Increasing in size is a good way that has already been mentioned. Another method is taking Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) which can stack with Enlarge Person, or getting a strength buff.
But again the Monk Weapons can provide some benefit in this case: The quarterstaff.
The quarterstaff is a very flexible weapon in that it has 2 methods of attack for the monk[list=1][*]The flurry. This is the standard use which most people are familiar with[*]The 2-hander. The quarterstaff allows for use as a 2-handed weapon (but no flurry is available in this mode). This takes advantage of the 1.5xStr bonus to damage, and, most importantly, the 2-handed power attack. At any time, if your monk cannot perform a full attack action (such as a charge, or using spring attack), the quarterstaff as a 2-handed weapon is a solid choice, especially if that Monk has Power Attack and the situation allows for it. Better yet, this is even available for he VoP monk, who is allowed to carry a simple weapon.
Last time I checked more damage = better DR. The only way my argument is invalid is if I haven't read the damage charts correctly. (Which is possible, given the last time I looked at the charts was about 2 weeks ago.)
Also note that the damages given are for medium sized characters. That in hand, monks are overall better than pretty much all the melee classes.
I would just like to point something out. Look at the Monk damage progression. At the mid levels, a monk's appendages deal just as much damage as most martial weapons. You get to the higher levels and the monks appendages deal more. A level 20 monk can deal 2d10 points of damage and attack five times? For any other class to duplicate that it would require, at the least, some form of 2 weapon fighting. Even then, it would likely be outshined.
Last time I checked more damage = better DR. The only way my argument is invalid is if I haven't read the damage charts correctly. (Which is possible, given the last time I looked at the charts was about 2 weeks ago.)
Also note that the damages given are for medium sized characters. That in hand, monks are overall better than pretty much all the melee classes.
Er, as strange as it may sound, at high levels damage does not come from increased die size. Damage comes from Power Attack, Strength Boosts, other Feats and Weapon Enhancements. Or spells.
The Monk is behind in all of these. Low BAB and poor weapon selection for Power Attack, MAD issues with Strength, no bonus damage Feats, and if they're fighting bare handed they aren't getting the magic weapon damage enhancements. And of course no spells.
Check the Char-Op board to see how to really rack up melee damage. I'm sure a monk can get up there where damage resistance isn't an issue, but it's probably a very limited optimization road, and I think it involve 6 sourcebooks. And I think a fighter buffed that much high would do better.
The answer lies in feats, potions and the like. A potion of magic fang or magic weapon can help enormously. Taking a PrC with spells or abilities that can mimic this is likewise handy. Amulet of mighty fists is horribly expensive, but can make the difference (and remember you don't have to splash out on magic arms and armor as much as the fighter, so you can probably afford one).