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Monstrous Manual

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Mar 18, 2007 14:46:02 Can someone tell me the difference between the black and white cover edition of the Monstrous manual 2nd edition?
Help appreciated!
#2
sgt_d
Mar 18, 2007 15:07:03 For some reason, I own both versions of the 2nd Ed. MM. The only difference between the two that I see is the cover.
#3
zombiegleemax
Mar 18, 2007 15:09:38 The art isn't different?
#4
sgt_d
Mar 18, 2007 20:03:42 No, it's pretty much the same book, as far as I can tell, including the monster artwork.
#5
zombiegleemax
Mar 19, 2007 5:47:40 Cool, thanks much!
#6
zombiegleemax
Mar 28, 2007 19:27:17 i seem to remember the one having one monster in it differently...i know the older one is the better one to get because it has the monster in question...however i do not recall which monster it is!
#7
zombiegleemax
Mar 28, 2007 19:34:08 First (Dec 1977)
Lizard logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
Centered, red-lettered "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" at top, with "TM Reg Applied For" in small red letters under that
Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, but no registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax"
No ISBN
Endpapers and flyleaves are red
No printing number information on the copyright page
Catalog on last page refers to a future "Referee's Guide" and Outdoor Geomorphs sets 2-4
The first print was intended to be released in Sep 1977, but due to delays at the printer, was not released until after Christmas 1977 -- possibly even Jan 1978
Gygax has stated that this first print numbered 50,000 copies. Thanks to Rich Franks, Jr for this info
About the publishing of this print (the first hardback RPG manual ever printed), again from Gygax: "It was no problem finding a printer that could do a stitched binding and school-book cover material, as I wanted the AD&D volumes to be as nearly indestructible as could be managed. Later on the Blumes changed that to save a nickel or two on each copy printed... as if we weren't making enough as it was. Crown Books wanted me to write a special introductory game book exclusively for them, but that was a no-go. Simon & Schuster contacted me about book trade distribution, but they were going to take a year to set it up, so I wasn't too thrilled. Then I got a phone call from Mildred Marmur, then the VP of Sub-Rights Licensing at Random House. They flew me out to NYC the next week and were ready to begin distribution in a month's time. As the remainder of the deal I negotiated assured TSR cash flow and other great benefits, I signed my name up there in their offices on the second day of our meetings. Having Millie as an advocate was a lot of help in cutting a great deal for TSR. Both of her sons were D&Ders!" Thanks to Rich Franks, Jr for this info.

Second (May 1978)
Lizard logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
Centered, red-lettered "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" at top, but "TM Reg Applied For" has been removed
Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, and now has a registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax"
No ISBN
Endpapers and flyleaves are red
States "2nd Edition, May 1978" on the copyright page
Catalog on last page refers to a future "Referee's Guide" and Outdoor Geomorphs sets 2-4

Third (Dec 1978)
Wizard logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
Centered, red-lettered "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" at top
Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, and now has a very tiny registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax"
No ISBN
Endpapers and flyleaves are red
States "3rd Edition, December 1978" on the copyright page
Catalog on last page has been updated in this and later prints; now correctly reflects a future Dungeon Masters Guide and omits reference to Outdoor Geomorphs sets 2-4

Third+
This is a strange hybrid print. The cover is identical to the Fourth print (aside from the spine), but the interior is identical to the Third print
Wizard logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
"Advanced D&D" is now in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; the red letters of "Advanced D&D" have black highlights, and there's no "TM" designation after it
"Monster Manual" title has moved from lower mid-cover to the top
Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, and now has a very tiny registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax"
No ISBN
Endpapers and flyleaves are red
States "3rd Edition, December 1978" on the copyright page
Thanks to Scott Cordiner and Eric Pass for this info

Fourth (Aug 1979)
Wizard logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
"Advanced D&D" is in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; the red letters of "Advanced D&D" have black highlights, and there's no "TM" designation after it
"Monster Manual" title is at the top
"Advanced D&D" is in white lettering on the spine. Now states "by Gary Gygax"
ISBN on spine, rear cover, and bottom of title page
Red or white endpapers/flyleaves (both versions have been spotted)
States "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page
Considered the "final" version, with all the errata incorporated
This version, like the Third+ print above, is fairly rare
Thanks to Eric Banks, Michael Deaton, and Adrian Newman for help with this info, and to Adrian Newman for the scan

Fifth (1980?)
Wizard logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
"Advanced D&D" is in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; the red letters of "Advanced D&D" now have white highlights, and it does have a "TM" designation after it
"Monster Manual" title is at the top
"Advanced D&D" is in white lettering on the spine. States "by Gary Gygax"
ISBN on spine, rear cover, and title page
White endpapers/flyleaves (though a red-colored copy has been spotted)
Still states "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page
By far the most common of all the Monster Manual prints
Thanks to Dave Macauley for help with this info

Sixth (1981)
TSR Face logo
Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll
Added "Adventure Games" under "Advanced D&D" in the angled yellow banner, top left corner
"Monster Manual" title is slightly lower than the Fifth print's
"Advanced D&D" is in white lettering on the spine, now followed by "Adventure Games" and "by Gary Gygax"
ISBN and TSR Product Number on spine and rear cover; ISBN alone appears on bottom of title page
White endpapers/flyleaves
Still states "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page
Textual change in the preface (pg 4), adding "co-authored by Dave Arneson" (a direct result of the lawsuit between TSR and Arneson)
Thanks to Michael Deaton for the scan

Seventh (1983)
Angled TSR logo
Updated cover art (red dragon fighting a pegasus), matching the cover style of the newly-released Monster Manual II
Orange spine
ISBN stacked above the Product Number on the rear cover lower left; no price on rear cover
Still says "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page
Last page has a catalog

Eighth
Angled TSR logo
Cover art is of a red dragon fighting a pegasus
Orange spine
ISBN above a UPC bar code on the rear cover center; and the price ($15.00) is in the lower right corner (though a copy has been reported without the price)
Still says "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page
Last page is blank, other than an Angled TSR logo
Thanks to Rick Blumer, Eric Pass, and Ben Polson for help with this info

Ninth (Aug 1987), Tenth (Nov 1987), Eleventh, Twelfth, Thirteenth, Fourteenth (Nov 1988), Fifteenth (Jul 1989)
Angled TSR logo
Cover art is of a red dragon fighting a pegasus
Orange spine
ISBN above a UPC bar code on the rear cover center, and the price ($15.00) is in the lower right corner
Now has printing numbers and dates on the copyright page
Last page is blank, other than an Angled TSR logo
Thanks to Jeff Gregor, David Lamontagne, Eric Niesley, and Eric Pass for this info
An "errata sheet" was available for the First print; unknown where these sheets came from (since the books were not shrinkwrapped, it is highly unlikely they came with the book purchase). Most of the errata mentioned on the sheet were corrected with the Second print, so we surmise it was released sometime between Dec 1977 and May 1978. More info is needed. Thanks to Michael Deaton for the scan.
#8
emeriliath
Mar 29, 2007 9:40:11 I think they are discussing the second edition Monstrous Manual (not the Compendium) instead of the first edition Monster Manual.

People seemed to like the non-binder format better. Did any of the other 2.5 books come in white?
#9
zombiegleemax
Mar 29, 2007 10:20:29 Yes, I'm talking about 2nd edition.
As for 2.5 books being white, I don't really know what you mean. Aren't all 2.5 books covered in black?
And there is no diifference in 2.0 and 2.5 other than the art, is it?
Except that they extended the PHB and DMG.

EDIT: Oh wait, you'r talking about the Player's option books, huh?
#10
emeriliath
Mar 29, 2007 17:58:12 Yes. My copy of the Monstrous Manual is black, similar in style to the option books, 2.5 DMG & PH. If the MM came in black and white, I was just wondering if any of the other books came in white also. I didn't think so, but was wondering.

Thanks!
#11
sgt_d
Mar 29, 2007 19:24:19 OK, I've got this straight.

There are kind-of two versions of the Monstrous Manual for 2nd Edition.

The one with this cover, and the one with this cover. (this guy's website rules)

The difference between these books is pretty much ONLY the cover. I have both versions; they have the same page-count. The only difference I see is that the interior front-page has the updated 2.5 AD&D logo. The formatting, artwork, etc. are exactly the same, otherwise.
#12
zombiegleemax
Mar 30, 2007 8:19:31 Well, isn't it only the PO: books that are called 2.5?
The PHB and DMG black cover is hardly any different from the old ones, aren't they?
#13
zombiegleemax
Mar 30, 2007 15:53:07
I think they are discussing the second edition Monstrous Manual (not the Compendium) instead of the first edition Monster Manual.

People seemed to like the non-binder format better. Did any of the other 2.5 books come in white?

ahhh...sorry! :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2007 14:46:02	Can someone tell me the difference between the black and white cover edition of the Monstrous manual 2nd edition? Help appreciated!
#2 sgt_d Mar 18, 2007 15:07:03	For some reason, I own both versions of the 2nd Ed. MM. The only difference between the two that I see is the cover.
#3 zombiegleemax Mar 18, 2007 15:09:38	The art isn't different?
#4 sgt_d Mar 18, 2007 20:03:42	No, it's pretty much the same book, as far as I can tell, including the monster artwork.
#5 zombiegleemax Mar 19, 2007 5:47:40	Cool, thanks much!
#6 zombiegleemax Mar 28, 2007 19:27:17	i seem to remember the one having one monster in it differently...i know the older one is the better one to get because it has the monster in question...however i do not recall which monster it is!
#7 zombiegleemax Mar 28, 2007 19:34:08	First (Dec 1977) Lizard logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll Centered, red-lettered "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" at top, with "TM Reg Applied For" in small red letters under that Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, but no registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax" No ISBN Endpapers and flyleaves are red No printing number information on the copyright page Catalog on last page refers to a future "Referee's Guide" and Outdoor Geomorphs sets 2-4 The first print was intended to be released in Sep 1977, but due to delays at the printer, was not released until after Christmas 1977 -- possibly even Jan 1978 Gygax has stated that this first print numbered 50,000 copies. Thanks to Rich Franks, Jr for this info About the publishing of this print (the first hardback RPG manual ever printed), again from Gygax: "It was no problem finding a printer that could do a stitched binding and school-book cover material, as I wanted the AD&D volumes to be as nearly indestructible as could be managed. Later on the Blumes changed that to save a nickel or two on each copy printed... as if we weren't making enough as it was. Crown Books wanted me to write a special introductory game book exclusively for them, but that was a no-go. Simon & Schuster contacted me about book trade distribution, but they were going to take a year to set it up, so I wasn't too thrilled. Then I got a phone call from Mildred Marmur, then the VP of Sub-Rights Licensing at Random House. They flew me out to NYC the next week and were ready to begin distribution in a month's time. As the remainder of the deal I negotiated assured TSR cash flow and other great benefits, I signed my name up there in their offices on the second day of our meetings. Having Millie as an advocate was a lot of help in cutting a great deal for TSR. Both of her sons were D&Ders!" Thanks to Rich Franks, Jr for this info. Second (May 1978) Lizard logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll Centered, red-lettered "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" at top, but "TM Reg Applied For" has been removed Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, and now has a registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax" No ISBN Endpapers and flyleaves are red States "2nd Edition, May 1978" on the copyright page Catalog on last page refers to a future "Referee's Guide" and Outdoor Geomorphs sets 2-4 Third (Dec 1978) Wizard logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll Centered, red-lettered "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" at top Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, and now has a very tiny registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax" No ISBN Endpapers and flyleaves are red States "3rd Edition, December 1978" on the copyright page Catalog on last page has been updated in this and later prints; now correctly reflects a future Dungeon Masters Guide and omits reference to Outdoor Geomorphs sets 2-4 Third+ This is a strange hybrid print. The cover is identical to the Fourth print (aside from the spine), but the interior is identical to the Third print Wizard logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll "Advanced D&D" is now in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; the red letters of "Advanced D&D" have black highlights, and there's no "TM" designation after it "Monster Manual" title has moved from lower mid-cover to the top Spine has "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons" in red lettering, and now has a very tiny registered trademark symbol. States "Gary Gygax" No ISBN Endpapers and flyleaves are red States "3rd Edition, December 1978" on the copyright page Thanks to Scott Cordiner and Eric Pass for this info Fourth (Aug 1979) Wizard logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll "Advanced D&D" is in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; the red letters of "Advanced D&D" have black highlights, and there's no "TM" designation after it "Monster Manual" title is at the top "Advanced D&D" is in white lettering on the spine. Now states "by Gary Gygax" ISBN on spine, rear cover, and bottom of title page Red or white endpapers/flyleaves (both versions have been spotted) States "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page Considered the "final" version, with all the errata incorporated This version, like the Third+ print above, is fairly rare Thanks to Eric Banks, Michael Deaton, and Adrian Newman for help with this info, and to Adrian Newman for the scan Fifth (1980?) Wizard logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll "Advanced D&D" is in an angled yellow banner, top left corner; the red letters of "Advanced D&D" now have white highlights, and it does have a "TM" designation after it "Monster Manual" title is at the top "Advanced D&D" is in white lettering on the spine. States "by Gary Gygax" ISBN on spine, rear cover, and title page White endpapers/flyleaves (though a red-colored copy has been spotted) Still states "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page By far the most common of all the Monster Manual prints Thanks to Dave Macauley for help with this info Sixth (1981) TSR Face logo Cover art is of a collection of monsters, including a small red dragon, a unicorn, and a troll Added "Adventure Games" under "Advanced D&D" in the angled yellow banner, top left corner "Monster Manual" title is slightly lower than the Fifth print's "Advanced D&D" is in white lettering on the spine, now followed by "Adventure Games" and "by Gary Gygax" ISBN and TSR Product Number on spine and rear cover; ISBN alone appears on bottom of title page White endpapers/flyleaves Still states "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page Textual change in the preface (pg 4), adding "co-authored by Dave Arneson" (a direct result of the lawsuit between TSR and Arneson) Thanks to Michael Deaton for the scan Seventh (1983) Angled TSR logo Updated cover art (red dragon fighting a pegasus), matching the cover style of the newly-released Monster Manual II Orange spine ISBN stacked above the Product Number on the rear cover lower left; no price on rear cover Still says "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page Last page has a catalog Eighth Angled TSR logo Cover art is of a red dragon fighting a pegasus Orange spine ISBN above a UPC bar code on the rear cover center; and the price ($15.00) is in the lower right corner (though a copy has been reported without the price) Still says "4th Edition, August 1979" on the copyright page Last page is blank, other than an Angled TSR logo Thanks to Rick Blumer, Eric Pass, and Ben Polson for help with this info Ninth (Aug 1987), Tenth (Nov 1987), Eleventh, Twelfth, Thirteenth, Fourteenth (Nov 1988), Fifteenth (Jul 1989) Angled TSR logo Cover art is of a red dragon fighting a pegasus Orange spine ISBN above a UPC bar code on the rear cover center, and the price ($15.00) is in the lower right corner Now has printing numbers and dates on the copyright page Last page is blank, other than an Angled TSR logo Thanks to Jeff Gregor, David Lamontagne, Eric Niesley, and Eric Pass for this info An "errata sheet" was available for the First print; unknown where these sheets came from (since the books were not shrinkwrapped, it is highly unlikely they came with the book purchase). Most of the errata mentioned on the sheet were corrected with the Second print, so we surmise it was released sometime between Dec 1977 and May 1978. More info is needed. Thanks to Michael Deaton for the scan.
#8 emeriliath Mar 29, 2007 9:40:11	I think they are discussing the second edition Monstrous Manual (not the Compendium) instead of the first edition Monster Manual. People seemed to like the non-binder format better. Did any of the other 2.5 books come in white?
#9 zombiegleemax Mar 29, 2007 10:20:29	Yes, I'm talking about 2nd edition. As for 2.5 books being white, I don't really know what you mean. Aren't all 2.5 books covered in black? And there is no diifference in 2.0 and 2.5 other than the art, is it? Except that they extended the PHB and DMG. EDIT: Oh wait, you'r talking about the Player's option books, huh?
#10 emeriliath Mar 29, 2007 17:58:12	Yes. My copy of the Monstrous Manual is black, similar in style to the option books, 2.5 DMG & PH. If the MM came in black and white, I was just wondering if any of the other books came in white also. I didn't think so, but was wondering. Thanks!
#11 sgt_d Mar 29, 2007 19:24:19	OK, I've got this straight. There are kind-of two versions of the Monstrous Manual for 2nd Edition. The one with this cover, and the one with this cover. (this guy's website rules) The difference between these books is pretty much ONLY the cover. I have both versions; they have the same page-count. The only difference I see is that the interior front-page has the updated 2.5 AD&D logo. The formatting, artwork, etc. are exactly the same, otherwise.
#12 zombiegleemax Mar 30, 2007 8:19:31	Well, isn't it only the PO: books that are called 2.5? The PHB and DMG black cover is hardly any different from the old ones, aren't they?
#13 zombiegleemax Mar 30, 2007 15:53:07	I think they are discussing the second edition Monstrous Manual (not the Compendium) instead of the first edition Monster Manual. People seemed to like the non-binder format better. Did any of the other 2.5 books come in white? ahhh...sorry! :P