new trait! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

new trait!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
abraham
May 04, 2008 18:49:51 trait name-hands of fury matards!
benifit-your unarmed attack & damage bonuses are doubled
flaw-you can't have ANY weapon prof. of any kind!
prequisite-monk levels required
#2
squidyak
May 05, 2008 10:06:39 Is this a joke or do you seriously think this isn't broken?
#3
abraham
May 05, 2008 16:59:49 ok maybe it's broken,but it has potential dont you think?
#4
kas_the_undead
May 06, 2008 19:26:53 why not you gain monk speed, unarmed damage, and monk ac as if 4 levels higher (one category) , but you can never be proficient in armor or with weapons
#5
squidyak
May 06, 2008 21:44:59 Who cares if you can't use weapons? Your far more powerful unarmed anyways. That's like telling a wizard "ok, you can cast a maximized fireball at will, but you can never be proficient in a weapon."
#6
kas_the_undead
May 06, 2008 23:48:44 First off maximized fireball at will is dramatically different then having your unarmed damage 4 levels earlier than normal. Having your unarmed attack stats one category is not game breaking. It still caps off on the dice it would end up as. Also there use to be an item in 3.0 monks tattoo in the fighter/monk book back when 3.0 came out that did the exact same thing. Also not being able to be proficient with any weapon or armor is a hindrance of equal worth in my opinion.
#7
squidyak
May 07, 2008 20:11:39
First off maximized fireball at will is dramatically different then having your unarmed damage 4 levels earlier than normal. Having your unarmed attack stats one category is not game breaking. It still caps off on the dice it would end up as. Also there use to be an item in 3.0 monks tattoo in the fighter/monk book back when 3.0 came out that did the exact same thing. Also not being able to be proficient with any weapon or armor is a hindrance of equal worth in my opinion.

The suggested trait doesn't increase unarmed damage by 4 levels, it doubles all unarmed attack and damage bonuses. That is vastly more powerful than losing proficiencies in weapons a monk would be stupid to use anyways. Even gaining bonuses 4 levels early is more powerful than losing weapon proficiencies. If I'm doing 1d20 damage unarmed, why would I care that I can't use a quarterstaff?
#8
thane26425
May 08, 2008 16:54:40 There is also a feat somewhere that increases your unarmed or natural weapon die by one category, or from d6 to d8 for a level 1 monk. I don't see what that increase wouldn't continue as the monk advanced, meaning when the monk would normall increase to a d8 it would go to d10 instead, etc.
#9
kas_the_undead
May 08, 2008 17:17:00
The suggested trait doesn't increase unarmed damage by 4 levels, it doubles all unarmed attack and damage bonuses. That is vastly more powerful than losing proficiencies in weapons a monk would be stupid to use anyways. Even gaining bonuses 4 levels early is more powerful than losing weapon proficiencies. If I'm doing 1d20 damage unarmed, why would I care that I can't use a quarterstaff?

I know he suggested double but i suggested 4 level increase if you had read my post, also he cant enjoy proficency in any of the monk weapons with modifiers such as vorpral, wounding, bane, ghost touched, smiting, disruption, banishing and all the others
#10
squidyak
May 08, 2008 18:39:48
I know he suggested double but i suggested 4 level increase if you had read my post, also he cant enjoy proficency in any of the monk weapons with modifiers such as vorpral, wounding, bane, ghost touched, smiting, disruption, banishing and all the others

All still inferior to being unarmed.
#11
abraham
May 09, 2008 16:27:17 ok how about this you add 1/2 your level to your unarmed damage but you can't use ANY weapons?
#12
kas_the_undead
May 09, 2008 23:06:44
All still inferior to being unarmed.

hows having instant kills and mad bonus to hit/damage vs certain foes inferior to having you unarmed attacks 1 dice higher but still capped out the same?
#13
sblaxman
May 10, 2008 0:43:00
ok how about this you add 1/2 your level to your unarmed damage but you can't use ANY weapons?

That's how it was done in 1e (the 1/2 HD to damage, not the no-weapons)

edit: scratch that, just checked... they added 1/2 hd to damage WITH weapons... unarmed they just used the regular damage, which was ~6d6+4 per hit at lvl 20, times 4 attacks/round (compared to 2-3 attacks for fighters, 2 for pallys/rangers, and 1 for everyone else). Only got d4 for hit die though.. but man that damage rocked.
#14
abraham
May 11, 2008 14:00:06 The 1/2 damage is addition to the normal damage you can do with your unarmed attack.
#15
squidyak
May 12, 2008 20:59:50
hows having instant kills and mad bonus to hit/damage vs certain foes inferior to having you unarmed attacks 1 dice higher but still capped out the same?

Instant kills? Come on, are you talking about slaying arrows? I consider a weapon that can only be used once and eventually becomes "maybe he'll roll a one on his save" inferior. Mad bonuses to hit and damage? Ooh, 1d6 fire damage that doesn't multiply! Awesome. That totally makes the 1d6 nunchuks better than 2d10 unarmed attacks. Once a monk reaches mid levels, almost all of them completely abandon weapons anyway. Your removing a useless ability to make their primary ability better. It isn't even close to being balanced.
#16
abraham
May 15, 2008 16:19:38 remeber,the flaw to this trait is that you CAN'T use ANY weapons!!!!!
#17
entropy_judge
May 15, 2008 18:46:59
That's how it was done in 1e (the 1/2 HD to damage, not the no-weapons)

edit: scratch that, just checked... they added 1/2 hd to damage WITH weapons... unarmed they just used the regular damage, which was ~6d6+4 per hit at lvl 20, times 4 attacks/round (compared to 2-3 attacks for fighters, 2 for pallys/rangers, and 1 for everyone else). Only got d4 for hit die though.. but man that damage rocked.

Er, AD&D 1 Monks only went up to 17. Assassins went up to 14, and Druids capped at ... I think it was 14, as well. At least, until Unearthed Arcana came out and the Hierophant Druids came into being.

Question: If you can't use *any* weapons, why do you get a bonus to unarmed attacks (AKA: Natural Weapons)? You're essentially required to be have a character with no weapon skills and monk levels in exchange for never being able to physically attack with proficiency.
#18
abraham
May 16, 2008 19:34:55 I wasn't counting natural weapons(anybody could learn how to use these,in any case they arn't counted as weapons for these purposes)
#19
ecalsneerg
May 17, 2008 11:51:39
remeber,the flaw to this trait is that you CAN'T use ANY weapons!!!!!

Yeah, and requires monk levels and doubles the signature ability of the class, unarmed strikes. You take this trait, Versatile Unarmed Strike and that's it. You can do double normal damage in any damage type you like.

I wasn't counting natural weapons(anybody could learn how to use these,in any case they arn't counted as weapons for these purposes)

Anyone can take improved unarmed Strike and get proficiency in unarmed strikes. Not everyone can spontaneously sprout natural weaponry.

I know he suggested double but i suggested 4 level increase if you had read my post, also he cant enjoy proficency in any of the monk weapons with modifiers such as vorpral, wounding, bane, ghost touched, smiting, disruption, banishing and all the others

Vorpal is rubbish. It costs a load and relies on you critting to work. If you don't crit, that hugely expensive enchantment doesn't help you in any way. Wounding can be simulated by the Psionic fist (or something) feat chain. The list goes on, you on't need these weapon enhancements.
#20
Dark_Stryke
May 19, 2008 19:23:27
remeber,the flaw to this trait is that you CAN'T use ANY weapons!!!!!

We know. The monk was never going to use a weapon anyway, except in some very weird circumstances. Basically, this trait is unbalanced because there's no reason not to take it. Even if it was just a +1 bonus to damage with unarmed attacks, monks with the trait will always be stronger than those without, because none of them were ever going to use weapons anyway.

It's making up a trait like this:

Name: Awesome Evil Smiting
Benefit: Your smite evil ability does double damage to evil targets.
Flaw: Your smite evil ability no longer affects non-evil targets.
Prerequisite: Class with Smite Evil ability.

This is also unbalanced. The flaw yields no drawback at all, because smite evil doesn't work on non-evil foes anyway. The prerequisite is pointless, too. The trait wouldn't do anything for people without smite evil, so why even include it?

This is much more balanced:

Name: Fiendsmiting
Benefit: Your smite evil ability deals double damage to evil outsiders
Flaw: Your smite evil ability no longer works on non-outsiders
Prerequisite: Paladin level 5

There. That trait requires a commitment (5 paladin levels, not any other smite evil class), as well as a drawback (can't smite non-fiends).

I don't really know why I wrote all this, because I'm moderately sure the OP is a troll...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 abraham May 04, 2008 18:49:51	trait name-hands of fury matards! benifit-your unarmed attack & damage bonuses are doubled flaw-you can't have ANY weapon prof. of any kind! prequisite-monk levels required
#2 squidyak May 05, 2008 10:06:39	Is this a joke or do you seriously think this isn't broken?
#3 abraham May 05, 2008 16:59:49	ok maybe it's broken,but it has potential dont you think?
#4 kas_the_undead May 06, 2008 19:26:53	why not you gain monk speed, unarmed damage, and monk ac as if 4 levels higher (one category) , but you can never be proficient in armor or with weapons
#5 squidyak May 06, 2008 21:44:59	Who cares if you can't use weapons? Your far more powerful unarmed anyways. That's like telling a wizard "ok, you can cast a maximized fireball at will, but you can never be proficient in a weapon."
#6 kas_the_undead May 06, 2008 23:48:44	First off maximized fireball at will is dramatically different then having your unarmed damage 4 levels earlier than normal. Having your unarmed attack stats one category is not game breaking. It still caps off on the dice it would end up as. Also there use to be an item in 3.0 monks tattoo in the fighter/monk book back when 3.0 came out that did the exact same thing. Also not being able to be proficient with any weapon or armor is a hindrance of equal worth in my opinion.
#7 squidyak May 07, 2008 20:11:39	First off maximized fireball at will is dramatically different then having your unarmed damage 4 levels earlier than normal. Having your unarmed attack stats one category is not game breaking. It still caps off on the dice it would end up as. Also there use to be an item in 3.0 monks tattoo in the fighter/monk book back when 3.0 came out that did the exact same thing. Also not being able to be proficient with any weapon or armor is a hindrance of equal worth in my opinion. The suggested trait doesn't increase unarmed damage by 4 levels, it doubles all unarmed attack and damage bonuses. That is vastly more powerful than losing proficiencies in weapons a monk would be stupid to use anyways. Even gaining bonuses 4 levels early is more powerful than losing weapon proficiencies. If I'm doing 1d20 damage unarmed, why would I care that I can't use a quarterstaff?
#8 thane26425 May 08, 2008 16:54:40	There is also a feat somewhere that increases your unarmed or natural weapon die by one category, or from d6 to d8 for a level 1 monk. I don't see what that increase wouldn't continue as the monk advanced, meaning when the monk would normall increase to a d8 it would go to d10 instead, etc.
#9 kas_the_undead May 08, 2008 17:17:00	The suggested trait doesn't increase unarmed damage by 4 levels, it doubles all unarmed attack and damage bonuses. That is vastly more powerful than losing proficiencies in weapons a monk would be stupid to use anyways. Even gaining bonuses 4 levels early is more powerful than losing weapon proficiencies. If I'm doing 1d20 damage unarmed, why would I care that I can't use a quarterstaff? I know he suggested double but i suggested 4 level increase if you had read my post, also he cant enjoy proficency in any of the monk weapons with modifiers such as vorpral, wounding, bane, ghost touched, smiting, disruption, banishing and all the others
#10 squidyak May 08, 2008 18:39:48	I know he suggested double but i suggested 4 level increase if you had read my post, also he cant enjoy proficency in any of the monk weapons with modifiers such as vorpral, wounding, bane, ghost touched, smiting, disruption, banishing and all the others All still inferior to being unarmed.
#11 abraham May 09, 2008 16:27:17	ok how about this you add 1/2 your level to your unarmed damage but you can't use ANY weapons?
#12 kas_the_undead May 09, 2008 23:06:44	All still inferior to being unarmed. hows having instant kills and mad bonus to hit/damage vs certain foes inferior to having you unarmed attacks 1 dice higher but still capped out the same?
#13 sblaxman May 10, 2008 0:43:00	ok how about this you add 1/2 your level to your unarmed damage but you can't use ANY weapons? That's how it was done in 1e (the 1/2 HD to damage, not the no-weapons) edit: scratch that, just checked... they added 1/2 hd to damage WITH weapons... unarmed they just used the regular damage, which was ~6d6+4 per hit at lvl 20, times 4 attacks/round (compared to 2-3 attacks for fighters, 2 for pallys/rangers, and 1 for everyone else). Only got d4 for hit die though.. but man that damage rocked.
#14 abraham May 11, 2008 14:00:06	The 1/2 damage is addition to the normal damage you can do with your unarmed attack.
#15 squidyak May 12, 2008 20:59:50	hows having instant kills and mad bonus to hit/damage vs certain foes inferior to having you unarmed attacks 1 dice higher but still capped out the same? Instant kills? Come on, are you talking about slaying arrows? I consider a weapon that can only be used once and eventually becomes "maybe he'll roll a one on his save" inferior. Mad bonuses to hit and damage? Ooh, 1d6 fire damage that doesn't multiply! Awesome. That totally makes the 1d6 nunchuks better than 2d10 unarmed attacks. Once a monk reaches mid levels, almost all of them completely abandon weapons anyway. Your removing a useless ability to make their primary ability better. It isn't even close to being balanced.
#16 abraham May 15, 2008 16:19:38	remeber,the flaw to this trait is that you CAN'T use ANY weapons!!!!!
#17 entropy_judge May 15, 2008 18:46:59	That's how it was done in 1e (the 1/2 HD to damage, not the no-weapons) edit: scratch that, just checked... they added 1/2 hd to damage WITH weapons... unarmed they just used the regular damage, which was ~6d6+4 per hit at lvl 20, times 4 attacks/round (compared to 2-3 attacks for fighters, 2 for pallys/rangers, and 1 for everyone else). Only got d4 for hit die though.. but man that damage rocked. Er, AD&D 1 Monks only went up to 17. Assassins went up to 14, and Druids capped at ... I think it was 14, as well. At least, until Unearthed Arcana came out and the Hierophant Druids came into being. Question: If you can't use any weapons, why do you get a bonus to unarmed attacks (AKA: Natural Weapons)? You're essentially required to be have a character with no weapon skills and monk levels in exchange for never being able to physically attack with proficiency.
#18 abraham May 16, 2008 19:34:55	I wasn't counting natural weapons(anybody could learn how to use these,in any case they arn't counted as weapons for these purposes)
#19 ecalsneerg May 17, 2008 11:51:39	remeber,the flaw to this trait is that you CAN'T use ANY weapons!!!!! Yeah, and requires monk levels and doubles the signature ability of the class, unarmed strikes. You take this trait, Versatile Unarmed Strike and that's it. You can do double normal damage in any damage type you like. I wasn't counting natural weapons(anybody could learn how to use these,in any case they arn't counted as weapons for these purposes) Anyone can take improved unarmed Strike and get proficiency in unarmed strikes. Not everyone can spontaneously sprout natural weaponry. I know he suggested double but i suggested 4 level increase if you had read my post, also he cant enjoy proficency in any of the monk weapons with modifiers such as vorpral, wounding, bane, ghost touched, smiting, disruption, banishing and all the others Vorpal is rubbish. It costs a load and relies on you critting to work. If you don't crit, that hugely expensive enchantment doesn't help you in any way. Wounding can be simulated by the Psionic fist (or something) feat chain. The list goes on, you on't need these weapon enhancements.
#20 Dark_Stryke May 19, 2008 19:23:27	remeber,the flaw to this trait is that you CAN'T use ANY weapons!!!!! We know. The monk was never going to use a weapon anyway, except in some very weird circumstances. Basically, this trait is unbalanced because there's no reason not to take it. Even if it was just a +1 bonus to damage with unarmed attacks, monks with the trait will always be stronger than those without, because none of them were ever going to use weapons anyway. It's making up a trait like this: Name: Awesome Evil Smiting Benefit: Your smite evil ability does double damage to evil targets. Flaw: Your smite evil ability no longer affects non-evil targets. Prerequisite: Class with Smite Evil ability. This is also unbalanced. The flaw yields no drawback at all, because smite evil doesn't work on non-evil foes anyway. The prerequisite is pointless, too. The trait wouldn't do anything for people without smite evil, so why even include it? This is much more balanced: Name: Fiendsmiting Benefit: Your smite evil ability deals double damage to evil outsiders Flaw: Your smite evil ability no longer works on non-outsiders Prerequisite: Paladin level 5 There. That trait requires a commitment (5 paladin levels, not any other smite evil class), as well as a drawback (can't smite non-fiends). I don't really know why I wrote all this, because I'm moderately sure the OP is a troll...