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Painless Kill

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Nov 17, 2004 15:41:01 Not that anyone has any first hand knowledge of this topic; but, I was reading the novel "Against the Giants."

When the party came up on the frost giant king and queen sleeping, the mage cast a sleep spell to keep them that way. Then the party decided to send them to the afterlife as they would continue to reek death and destruction if they lived. They party would kill them quick and painless as they were a "good party."

Anyway, one of the party stabs the queen giant in the eye and most likely into the brain and she dies.

This doesn't sound very painless.

Can you tell I have too much time on my hands?
#2
cerebus
Nov 18, 2004 7:10:01 I always wanted to get that novel and read it, from that description it sounds like I'd really enjoy it. i think I'll go to the local used book store and look for it.

IMO, although the characters did the right thing, I don't think that death would be particularly painless. Quick, yes, but not painless.
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 18, 2004 8:04:30 Rulewise a stab in the eye would have aroused the giant when under a sleep spell and then she would have felt pain, off course, shortly but definitely.

But the goodness of that party was not in really killing them painless but in trying to do it as painless as possible. The counterpart would be to not cast a sleep spell, but instead a hold spell or similar and then butcher them or something similar an evil-aligned party certainly came up with...yech!
#4
3man20
Nov 18, 2004 15:01:19 Does this fall under the category of enescapable or instant death? I would imagine a stab in the eye would cause pain, but a stab in the brain would pretty much instantly kill her, so how long would there really be pain...this sounds like a question for medical science...let's just call up a doctor and ask, "If we stab a sleeping giant woman in the eye and into her brain, would she feel pain?"...of course, the police would probably be outside your door within minutes!
#5
failhelm
Nov 29, 2004 19:26:52 A sleep spell doesn't work agaisnt more than 4+1 or so HD? Or did it change that much in 2nd ed.?

Either way it takes a mere 1 round to instantly kill any helpless creature as in sleeping or unconcious.

I actually would consider the eye/brain stabbing to be unnecessarily gory.
#6
varl
Nov 29, 2004 21:32:35 It's 4+3 HD or more in 2e.
#7
failhelm
Nov 30, 2004 10:16:59 Or more, so it doesn't work against low HD or level creatures?

Or are you saying up to and more?
#8
varl
Nov 30, 2004 11:40:29 No, a Sleep spell doesn't work against creatures with 4+3 HD or greater. Lesser creatures it does work against.
#9
failhelm
Nov 30, 2004 12:43:15 so pretty much the same as 1st then.

So I guess the answer to the thread would be...you can't use sleep spells against giants
#10
Elendur
Nov 30, 2004 13:16:29 I haven't read that book, but I did read the novelization of "Keep on the Borderlands", and the author didn't seem to have ever actually played D&D. So I'm not surprised about the liberty taken with the sleep spell.

Killing sleeping foes was almost guaranteed in 1e, though I don't know how realistic that is. Frost Giants are roughly twice the size of humans, so maybe a sword through the eye and into the brain wouldn't necessarily kill a giant. It'd definitly hurt a lot though
#11
failhelm
Nov 30, 2004 13:25:28
I haven't read that book, but I did read the novelization of "Keep on the Borderlands", and the author didn't seem to have ever actually played D&D. So I'm not surprised about the liberty taken with the sleep spell.

Killing sleeping foes was almost guaranteed in 1e, though I don't know how realistic that is. Frost Giants are roughly twice the size of humans, so maybe a sword through the eye and into the brain wouldn't necessarily kill a giant. It'd definitly hurt a lot though

Never read the books, but I ran the Modules

I agree especially front entry, better luck going through the back of the head, puncturing lungs, heart or stomach

Of course the back of the head or heart are most humane...or not

mancatcher to the nuts anyone

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2004 15:41:01	Not that anyone has any first hand knowledge of this topic; but, I was reading the novel "Against the Giants." When the party came up on the frost giant king and queen sleeping, the mage cast a sleep spell to keep them that way. Then the party decided to send them to the afterlife as they would continue to reek death and destruction if they lived. They party would kill them quick and painless as they were a "good party." Anyway, one of the party stabs the queen giant in the eye and most likely into the brain and she dies. This doesn't sound very painless. Can you tell I have too much time on my hands?
#2 cerebus Nov 18, 2004 7:10:01	I always wanted to get that novel and read it, from that description it sounds like I'd really enjoy it. i think I'll go to the local used book store and look for it. IMO, although the characters did the right thing, I don't think that death would be particularly painless. Quick, yes, but not painless.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2004 8:04:30	Rulewise a stab in the eye would have aroused the giant when under a sleep spell and then she would have felt pain, off course, shortly but definitely. But the goodness of that party was not in really killing them painless but in trying to do it as painless as possible. The counterpart would be to not cast a sleep spell, but instead a hold spell or similar and then butcher them or something similar an evil-aligned party certainly came up with...yech!
#4 3man20 Nov 18, 2004 15:01:19	Does this fall under the category of enescapable or instant death? I would imagine a stab in the eye would cause pain, but a stab in the brain would pretty much instantly kill her, so how long would there really be pain...this sounds like a question for medical science...let's just call up a doctor and ask, "If we stab a sleeping giant woman in the eye and into her brain, would she feel pain?"...of course, the police would probably be outside your door within minutes!
#5 failhelm Nov 29, 2004 19:26:52	A sleep spell doesn't work agaisnt more than 4+1 or so HD? Or did it change that much in 2nd ed.? Either way it takes a mere 1 round to instantly kill any helpless creature as in sleeping or unconcious. I actually would consider the eye/brain stabbing to be unnecessarily gory.
#6 varl Nov 29, 2004 21:32:35	It's 4+3 HD or more in 2e.
#7 failhelm Nov 30, 2004 10:16:59	Or more, so it doesn't work against low HD or level creatures? Or are you saying up to and more?
#8 varl Nov 30, 2004 11:40:29	No, a Sleep spell doesn't work against creatures with 4+3 HD or greater. Lesser creatures it does work against.
#9 failhelm Nov 30, 2004 12:43:15	so pretty much the same as 1st then. So I guess the answer to the thread would be...you can't use sleep spells against giants
#10 Elendur Nov 30, 2004 13:16:29	I haven't read that book, but I did read the novelization of "Keep on the Borderlands", and the author didn't seem to have ever actually played D&D. So I'm not surprised about the liberty taken with the sleep spell. Killing sleeping foes was almost guaranteed in 1e, though I don't know how realistic that is. Frost Giants are roughly twice the size of humans, so maybe a sword through the eye and into the brain wouldn't necessarily kill a giant. It'd definitly hurt a lot though
#11 failhelm Nov 30, 2004 13:25:28	I haven't read that book, but I did read the novelization of "Keep on the Borderlands", and the author didn't seem to have ever actually played D&D. So I'm not surprised about the liberty taken with the sleep spell. Killing sleeping foes was almost guaranteed in 1e, though I don't know how realistic that is. Frost Giants are roughly twice the size of humans, so maybe a sword through the eye and into the brain wouldn't necessarily kill a giant. It'd definitly hurt a lot though Never read the books, but I ran the Modules I agree especially front entry, better luck going through the back of the head, puncturing lungs, heart or stomach Of course the back of the head or heart are most humane...or not mancatcher to the nuts anyone