In the meantime, I'm working on a hybrid edition with AD&D 2nd edition as a basis with a few 3rd-isms. I would like some input as to what you guys think.
BASICS
- First off, start with 2nd edition. Apply the following d20 system things:
- Use the d20 ability score tables
- Replace THAC0 with BAB and ACs go upwards.
- Use 3rd edition saving throws
- Gain 1 ability score point every four levels as in 3e
- Use the d20 ability score tables
- Iterative attacks are all at full BAB, with an extra attack every +5 of BAB, with a final cap of six attacks.
CLASSES AND RACES
- Give fighters +1d6 of melee power attack every two levels.
- Use the 2nd edition barbarian (from Complete Barbarian's Handbook)
- Use 2nd edition psionics (before they changed it)
- Use the 3.5 rogue instead of the 2e thief.
- Use the 2nd edition druid.
- Give clerics +1d6 turn damage per two levels, this replaces the turn undead and holy smite mechanics.
- Paladins turn as clerics three levels lower.
- Use the 2nd edition bard but add on evasion at 2nd level, opportunistic piety at 5th (from the Factotum, turn damage is four levels lower than a cleric), +1d6 of sneak attack per 3 levels, and the wizard spell list (default for 2e bards but worth mentioning)
- Give magic users Eldritch Blast like the warlock in Complete Arcane. This costs 1 spell point per 1d6 damage.
- Multiclassing is handled as normal 2nd edition (gestalt with half xp awarded for the first 9 levels, then the same as everybody else)
- Replace Vancian casting with a flat 15 spell points per level for wizards, clerics, and druids, 10 per level for bards, and 5 per level for paladins and rangers. Spell point costs are the same as the expanded psionics handbook
- Wizards continue to gain maximum spell levels above 9th at the normal rate
- Eldritch Blast, Turn Undead, Sneak Attack, and Power Attack do not stack with each other and cannot be used at the same time.
- Allow fighter/wizards to cast spells in heavy armor without ASF
- No monsters as races
- Use the 2nd edition fighter table for all classes.
SKILLS & FEATS
- Use non-weapon proficiencies instead of skill points
- No feats (using NWPs instead)
COMBAT
- No miniatures
- No attacks of opportunity, no flanking, and no reach
- No special rules for grappling, tripping, disarming, or sundering - an attack is an attack is an attack, and they all do hp damage
- No permanent level drain
- A flat -2 penalty for two-weapon fighting
MAGIC
- Instead of preparing spells each day, spellcasters can spontaneously cast any spell they know. Furthermore, they can learn an unlimited number of spells per spell level. But they only learn all cantrips, 3 + INT 1st level spells, and 2 more spells per wizard level. The rest have to be learned from scrolls and spellbooks that they find.
- Get rid of spell damage scaling per level and instead augment like 3.5 psionics do
- 7th through 9th level spells have their levels changed as needed to balance the game
- In fact, make the spell level system the same as caster level (so 8th level spells become 15th level spells and are castable by 15th level wizards), like I suspect 4e will be. Figure out the appropriate levels for all the spells in the game. Time Stop will probably by 27th. I haven't worked out the details on this one yet. Epic spells can be fit into this method seamlessly.
- Magic item construction does not cost feats or xp. Instead use the 2nd edition method.
- No magic item markets beyond potions, wands, and low-level scrolls.
- Magical bonuses do not stack, except for a ring (or cloak) of protection and bracers of armor.
- Raise dead costs 1 CON point instead of a level. When you hit 0 CON you're dead forever. This CON point is gone forever.
Well, what do you think?
First of.... combine INT and WIS scores to get a total of "magic points"
Then you can cast anynuber of spells up to and including the magic point number per day.
A 9nth level spell will cost 9 MP's, while a 3rd level will cost 3 MP's, and so on.
So if you have INT+WIS score of say... 28, you can cast 4 7nth lvl spells, but nothing else.
MP's can be regained at a rate of 2 points /hour of NON CASTING activities. So if you cast a lvl8 spell in the morning, 4 hours later without any spellcasting at all, you're back to full points.
This system will allow you (in the above case) to throw 9 fireballs (level 3 spells) which is usually enough for most caombat situations ;)
Actually, though, your system has an interesting part - it's relatively static across all levels. A first-level wizard is almost as powerful as a 30th level wizard. The 30th level one will likely have +6 to INT and WIS through items (with an additional +7 to one of them), for an additional 19 magic points, and he gets to augment up to 30th level.
Especially when you know that you can't cast lvl9 spells untill your mage is lvl18 himself.... so I'ld keep THAT rule from 2nd Ed.
However as you said, he would grow stronger as he gains levels, he will also gain access to more powerful spells. Fireball, for example, he will get at lvl 5 at the earliest.
I would still like for a wiz or a priest to have to learn his spells though..... also because it adds flavour. And it's a bit more exciting to have a chance of failing to learn, makes the toon feel more a sense of accomplishment when he gains a spell.
Priests would of course also use this system, btw ;)
I'm switching to the augment system to balance spells like cone of cold and fireball to each other. So fireball doesn't scale - it does a flat 5d6 (5 spell points) + 1d6 per 2 additional spell points, to a maximum of your caster level (damage caps don't make as much sense under this system).
I also seriously considered removing cleric from the game entirely and merging all spell lists into one big list. Then Turn Undead reared its ugly head. So cleric stayed.
I'm thinking of using 2e psionics, except they're rather complicated, and I'm trying to simplify things. I like 2e psionics better than 3.5 because it is completely different from wizards and clerics. I'll have to refresh my memory on its Spells & Powers revision, maybe it's better than the Complete Psionics Handbook.
In the meantime, I'm working on a hybrid edition with AD&D 2nd edition as a basis with a few 3rd-isms. I would like some input as to what you guys think.
[*]Allow fighter/wizards to cast spells in heavy armor without ASF
ASF?
[*]Use non-weapon proficiencies instead of skill points
[*]No feats (using NWPs instead)
A good choice imo.
[*]No miniatures
This day and age? Interesting choice, not one I'd make, but whatever.
[*]No attacks of opportunity
[*]No special rules for grappling, tripping, disarming, or sundering - an attack is an attack is an attack, and they all do hp damage
[*]No permanent level drain
[*]No ability drain or damage
[*]A flat -2 penalty for two-weapon fighting
I like most of these, though how do you reconcile the attack of a Shadow or any other ability draining creatures if you now don't allow ability drain or damage? I'm not a big fan of ability drainings either, but something has to replace it, even in 2e, if you're not going to use them. I'm very curious what you'd use.
[*]Instead of preparing spells each day, spellcasters can spontaneously cast any spell they know. Furthermore, they can learn an unlimited number of spells per spell level.
Hey! I thought I recognized something familiar. Those are priests in my games!
[*]Get rid of spell damage scaling per level and instead augment like 3.5 psionics do
Ick. Spell damage per level is easier to remember imo.
[*]In fact, make the spell level system the same as caster level (so 15th level spells are castable by 15th level wizards), like I suspect 4e will be.
If 4e is this way, it's not for me then. A Wish is castable by a 9th level mage? Why change this? I don't get it.
[*]Magic item construction does not cost feats or xp. Instead use the 2nd edition method.
[*]No magic item markets beyond potions, wands, and low-level scrolls.
Good choices. Tired of the one-armed magic item bandit game, huh? Cha-ching, Cha-ching, Cha-ching! ;)
A few of my own changes to my 2e hybrid:
- Creature stats across the board.
- A psionics system of my own creation loosely based off of 3.5 psionics. I wanted psionics to finally be grouped in levels like spells, and without all the seemingly random placement of power in 2e.
- Adoption of damage reduction (still debating this one).
- The adoption of movement as speed instead of 1e's inches or 2e's 3/6/9/12 incremental movement system.
You make a good point about shadows and ability drain. I guess that stays in. The problem comes when players start dealing ability damage instead of hp damage. Ray of stupidity is a good example - instead of a penalty it does 1d4 points of intelligence damage, which means multiple maximized empowered castings will drop almost anything into a coma.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by changing spell levels. The present list of 9th level spells would be split into 17th and 18th level spells, 8th would be 15th and 16th level, 7th would be 13th and 14th, etc.
I hate using minis. I don't want a realistic combat simulation. I want to be the guy swinging from ropes jumping into a crowd with a dagger in his teeth, turning the table on its side to hide behind it, and I want to keep that kind of energy in the play itself, not just on the table.
The problem with spell damage scaling is that a fireball cast by a 9th level caster does 9d6 damage for 5 spell points. A cone of cold cast by the same guy does 9d6 damage for 9 spell points. Thus that only works with a Vancian system.
Also, in my system wizards don't automatically know all spells on their spell list like clerics do. Instead they have to learn them the normal way (without the gp cost though).
I favor 2e psionics over 3.5 because 2e is more like a feat system. I think I'll get rid of power checks though.
I like movement speed in feet. It's more intuitive. Damage reduction is okay but I think I like it +1, +2, etc. instead of "adamantine and good" or what have you. Silver is fine but when you do it across the board, it makes pit fiends and balors vulnerable to most weapons. I like to make them invincible until the PCs find that special +5 weapon.
I also have decided that I don't like the "keep on stacking weapon enhancements" thing that 3e does. It was cool for a while but lately I've been thinking that a Will sapping Domineering Greater wounding Scourge of Pain or a +1 Speed Wounding Flaming Frost Thundering military fork have kind of lost their wonder.
I think that the game world I design for this is going to have no NPCs over 9th level presently living, a few great heroes of the past around 12th, and one or two Gilgamesh/Beowulf legends around 15th-18th.
ASF = Arcane Spell Failure. A percent chance that casting an arcane spell will fail due to wearing armor. Presently it's resulted in gishes wearing twilight mithril armor and taking a level of spellsword.
I feel similarly for multiclassed characters, but I think they need a small chance of ASF in trade for the privledge of being able to wear armor and cast spells at the same time.
You make a good point about shadows and ability drain. I guess that stays in. The problem comes when players start dealing ability damage instead of hp damage. Ray of stupidity is a good example - instead of a penalty it does 1d4 points of intelligence damage, which means multiple maximized empowered castings will drop almost anything into a coma.
Heh. I've noticed that psionics are another system that likes to use ability drains to excess. The thing I don't like about 3e's higher frequency of ability score drains is the homework behind the drains. With hit points, it's easy. With ability score drains, so many other character stats can be affected.
I think you misunderstood what I meant by changing spell levels. The present list of 9th level spells would be split into 17th and 18th level spells, 8th would be 15th and 16th level, 7th would be 13th and 14th, etc.
I see. Still, I think the btb spell levels works fine as it is.
I hate using minis. I don't want a realistic combat simulation. I want to be the guy swinging from ropes jumping into a crowd with a dagger in his teeth, turning the table on its side to hide behind it, and I want to keep that kind of energy in the play itself, not just on the table.
The thing is, you still can with minis. I'm not trying to talk you into mini use. If you're very good at describing the scene and positioning of characters, that's great. For those of us less exhuberant in our ability to describe character positioning, miniatures show us. They're just tools to me to better help me describe what's going on.
I like movement speed in feet. It's more intuitive.
That's why I prefer it too.
Damage reduction is okay but I think I like it +1, +2, etc. instead of "adamantine and good" or what have you. Silver is fine but when you do it across the board, it makes pit fiends and balors vulnerable to most weapons. I like to make them invincible until the PCs find that special +5 weapon.
If I do end up using damage reduction, it'll be similar to how you describe it here. Question: isn't damage reduction basically the same things as the AD&D system of "+1 or better weapon to hit"? If you need a +1 weapon to hit a creature, anything less than that does no damage. So, why would damage reduction be worth implementing if it's already in AD&D?
I also have decided that I don't like the "keep on stacking weapon enhancements" thing that 3e does. It was cool for a while but lately I've been thinking that a Will sapping Domineering Greater wounding Scourge of Pain or a +1 Speed Wounding Flaming Frost Thundering military fork have kind of lost their wonder.
Heh! Those kinds of stackables are one thing I absolutely hate about d20. It's like the stackable character races with 4 half-something or others and 2 quarter-somethings which ends up being 2-1/2 characters...
You mean like a vampire werewolf half-fiend half-dragon drow? :D
Yep. Just like that. Heh.