Everyone knows that a character with a low strength doesn't have bulging muscles. Some people make the connection between frailty and low constitution. But that's where a lot of the connections end. What does a high score in constitution look like? What does a high constitution with a low strength look like? Let's look at how the stats work in D&D. Strength is your character's physical muscle and ability to use it. So it would follow that a character with high strength would have a large amount of muscles. Thats obvious to everyone.
However constitution is not something that can be explained by a simple definition of muscle. Because muscle doesn't absorb blows, muscle makes them hurt more. Bone and fat are what absorb damage, not muscle or willpower. A character with a high strength but low constitution might have big muscles, but weak bones. Of course you can't quite see weak bones. So lets reverse it. What about a character with low strength but high constitution? I say that this kind of character would simply be overweight. All that extra fat would really help to absorb the blows from a mace, wouldn't it? Of course, the character could also simply be 'big boned' Either way, low-str, high-con will result in a character that appears to be overweight. A character with both (strength and constitution) high scores might look like a real man's man. Big muscles, but not overly defined. You can tell by looking at him that he's not the kind of person you want to fight.... because the idea of getting hit by him scares you and your puny fists aren't going to do much damage to him.
But what about that last score, dexterity? Some would argue that one cannot 'see' a person's hand-eye co-ordination. I will argue against that. A person that moves with grace, and doesn't slip or get tripped easily has a high dexterity. You can tell a person with high dexterity by the way they walk and react to their surroundings. People with a low dexterity might trip over their feet, or stumble over a single rock that gets underfoot. Someone with a high STR score as well as a high DEX will look like your average physical trainer - well-muscled but toned rather than defined. Their limbs can move precisely and quickly, and with devastating power. Someone with a high DEX and a high CON would look overweight, but still slim. Their body would seem to have excess fat (or bone) but their joints wouldn't seem restricted. They would move with grace that seems somewhat out of place. A character with all 3 stats high would look like the peak of fitness: large muscles, grace of movement, and a stocky build.
Maybe people should begin to design their characters looks after they take a look at their ability scores.
Constitution represents too many things in the game for it to translate directly into being large and fat or having an under-defined physique. Constitution represents not only resistance to injury but also ability to resist poisons, disease, and fatigue. Here are some real world examples of people with high constitutions:
(1) marathon runners
(2) boxers
(3) football linemen
Each of these groups has a notably different physique, and in each case that tracks strength pretty well. Linemen are obviously the strongest group, while marathon runners the least strong.
I want to emphasise boxers since they are the athletes whose sport best resembles a Dungeons and Dragons character's activities. Middle weight and feather weigh boxers are strong people for their size. Heavy weights are very strong. All of them, if they are any good, can take a punch. Only among heavy weights does one find people who look overweight. Even there, the cut ones out number the flabby ones among champions over the last two decades. Forman is the only Heavy Weight champ that looks flabby. Ali looked a little flabby in his later years in the ring. Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis... These guys are paradigms of strength, constitution and dexterity and they all look like Conan. (By the way, there's a picture of Lewis with Arnie on Lewis's website.)
Here's one correlation that you don't mention. Strength comes with size. Strong characters should usually be average or above height for their race. Very strong character should probably be above average height. Weak characters might be tall but frail; they should be below average weight for their size. And many weak characters will be short but of roughly average weight for their size.
However, boxers need to focus on all physical aspects. They need the strength to deal damage when the strike, and the dexterity to dodge blows. Lightweights focus more on DEX, while Heavyweights focus much more on STR.
And football players? They are another prime example of someone who focuses on their Strength as well. With all those drills they regularly go through, it would be hard to have an average strength score!
In all honesty, with the exception of bodybuilders and marathon runners, most professions or hobbies that focus on the body require more than just a single score. Baseball requires STR and DEX, Soccer requires all 3 stats, and the list goes onwards for a long time.
I do concede defeat to the marathon runners, though it's more likely that they've simply taken endurance and great fortitude rather than having overly high CON scores.
I agree con CAN be reflected by fat. I am one of the football lineman philosofool mentioned, and despite avid weightlifting and running, I'm bigboned. My bulk made me a little slow when sprinting, but didn't hamper me anywhere else. It didn't make it so I couldn't run long distances (In fact I was one of the best stamina runners on the team) it just made me run a little slower. Over all, I think I have maybe 14 str and possible 15 or 16 con. Now I'm not a muscle man or anything, But i was one of the strongest lifters on the team and I always got started because I could go 3 quarters before the coaches had to ask if I was getting tired. Now I'm not lean at all, but I definitely have high con. I one of the "Big-Boned" guys Arami mentioned. High strength, High Con.
I think you're giving good advice. I rarely design what my character looks like until I've dealt with stats and profession. I just don't think the connection is as strong as you make out.
As for strength, yes, you will likely be big, but you wouldn't have to be enormous. (Though if you have an 18 str, you better be up there :P)
People who practice some forms of martial arts may have greater effective strength than they appear because the learn to use their muscles' power efficiently. Its quite amazing to see what a person can do with circular motions and correct balance.
On the other hand, some people with bulging muscles may generate a lot of power with their muscles, but may not be able to use it efficiently. A char with low effective strength but large muscles may have no technique at all, simply swinging their arm's mass to punch.
At the time I was 22, 6’0” 180 lbs, and could bench 230 lbs for 5 reps. A friend of mine wanted to get into shape and bought a weight set so I went over to his house to work out with him. He was 6’3” and easily 230 lbs himself however his max bench at the time was only 100 lbs if that, he was a big boned healthy looking guy at the time also. Anyway his sister deciding to show off benched 135 lbs and did 3 quick reps at that weight, she was all of 5’3” and 100 lbs soaking wet in a wool blanket, while she was petite she was not a ‘hardbody’. Going of looks my friend should have been able to throw a horse and his sister should not have been able to lift a bag of groceries but needless to say they did not fit a physical ‘stereotype’.
Ten years later I’m 20 lbs heavy and not quite as svelte as I used to be, but I can still run a 7 minute mile if I have to, drink 6 pack of Guiness on an empty stomach w/out getting the oft sought for buzz, and rarely catch a cold, I do have asthma (not severely so) and am allergic to cats, so what would my CON be?
Also in regards to the boxer, marathon runner, and football lineman. CON is still a very important factor, the boxer still needs to be able to take a punch and stay sharp through 12 rounds of pummeling, the lineman is essentially wrestling off and on for 2 hours so not do they need stamina the need to be able to stand up the physical punishment of having another 300 lb ballerina trying to out wrestle him. A lineman and heavyweight boxer might not be spry and lightfooted but in their regards it about the ability to take punishment and hang in there. A marathon runner is all about CON and maybe DEX while the other two are CON and STR.
I’ve seen a 50+ year old sharpshooter, with beer gut that resembled a 3rd trimester, hit coins thrown into the air at 20-30 feet but going off just looks you’d never give him more than DEX 12. But I can only hit a bullseye with a bow at the same distance at a 1-in-10 ratio, and I was captain of my gymnastics team in high school.
Going off physical looks is an OK ‘indicator’ but I would never etch it in stone.
Most importantly Race would seem to be a factor. My Elven barbarian has a 20 strength and dexterity while his con is merely 10. I imagine him looking very well muscled for an elf with incredible definition but relatively moderate mass. He would have to have big shoulders, thighs and Lats but I just cant see a big barrel chest on him. I mean Elves are described as slim compared to humans and it must be their different biology, not just that they have never needed to be strong. They don't have any strength modifiers after all.
On a related note, i generally make charisma an entirely mental statistic. This helps my players' egos in that charisma can still be their dump stat but they don't look like the were beat with an ugly stick (or hit by the ugly van, in the case of those cha 6 dwarves and half-orcs). It also makes for characters who are not especially good-looking but extremely empathic and possessed of great leadership skills. Plus attractiveness is something that is entirely subjective, especially when dealing with different races e.g. dwarves find dwarves attractive, orcs find orcs attractive, and so on. What are your thoughts on charisma and physical appearance?
Wanna be 5 ft tall, skinny, and have an 18 str? Okay, your bones and ligaments are just tougher, your muscle denser, so you have the strength without the mass. You're a genetic weirdo. Anyway, while the stats are a useful guide, and you wouldn't want someone just popping up with out of whack stuff, there are explanations, you just need to make sure your players are able to justify their looks.
A rogue with a high CHA may not only have a silver tongue, so to speak, but also handsome features.
Likewise, a low CHA could perhaps make the character have facial deformities or scars, not just stuttering and other speech impairments. And our half-orc above may now be much more orc-like in appearance.
Note: The half-orc mentioned is used a typical campaign world. If the party is a band of orcs or other goblinoids, than you may want to reverse the facial features mentioned above.
That's exactly why elves have low CON; they're skinny and prone to damage. I imagine high strength low con people as being like weightlifters. If you've ever been around professional weightlifters they do things like not stretch in order to keep their muscles tight and all that. So an elf with a higher constitution score would start to look like a human, with a sturdier frame.
Before I post my opinion, I have to debunk this statement.
"Professional" Weightlifters--the lifters that do it for a living--are supreme advocates of stretching. They know that stretching helps to repair the muscle after a workout, and it will make the muscle look more aesthetically pleasing. However, they will state that one should not stretch TOO MUCH before lifting, as this will decrease strength that could be used to lift the weight. Lifters that do not stretch are more than likely amateur lifters who do not lift properly to begin with. They are the people who always bow their arms to the sides (they do not perform a proper rep by going through a full contraction and extension). On top of this, why is not stretching a sign of a low CON? It is not. These animals have tremendous endurance. They are in the gym lifting very heavy weight for hours at a time. Mere mortals cannot do this for any length of time (Okay, this is a bit much). Anyway, Professional Bodybuilders are the epitome of STR and CON, and some of them also have a high DEX.
Now, on to my opinion of the article...
Physical stats should be a determining factor in describing the physical characteristics of the PC. However, they are not the end-all-be-all of characteristics. I will use myself as an example since I am a weightlifter, and I was a tailback for TCU.
My physical description is not very impressive. I am 5' 8" tall, and I only weigh a whopping 200 lbs. However, I can bench press 350lbs (max bench), I can deadlift 450 lbs (pick up the weight off the floor... max lift), and I can squat 450 lbs (max lift). I can run a 5 1/2 minute mile, and I can run a 4.44 sec 40yd dash.
(Yes, I am a DnD player).
This means that I have very impressive physical stats at a very small frame. Of course, this is not the norm, but neither are PCs. They are supposed to be the upper echelon of their race. We also have to remember that, in 2e, there was such a thing as Supernatural STR. Remember the 18/whatever? This represented a STR that normal people were not supposed to have.
I could ramble for hours concerning this subject, but I wont. However, I will leave with some facts about my characters:
My CLR 3/WIZ 3 (15 CON, 16 DEX, and 12 STR) is a from a Barbarian tribe. He is 6' 8", weighs about 285 lbs, and has a big gut, but he can still take some punishment, and can move pretty fast (Like Sumo Wrestlers).
My ROG 2/FIG 1 (15 CON, 18 DEX, and 13 STR) is a Noble who is 6', 202 lbs, very quick/agile, wiry/cut, but tries not to take damage "because it hurts."
My Half-Ogre FIG 4 (22 STR, 18 CON, 16 DEX) is 8' 3", 522 lbs, very muscular, but not bulky. He is very cut, but it is hard to see it through all of his body hair.
So, I also believe that physical stats should be a motivator for descriptive characteristics. However, they should not be the determining factor because, as many have shown, it is not always accurate to assume that how a person appears is really how they are. This should be BLATANTLY obvious since this is a magical setting, and there are plenty of spells that can change the appearance of characters.
(As a side note, read my signature.)
I agree with Aramil, that having high Constitution usually means being quite fat.
Knarfy's argument (about excessive weight being unhealthy) doesn't hold. Being overweight began to pose a problem in modern times - with easily accessible high-caloric food, working by the desk and spending hours watching TV. In middle ages (with much more physical work and less food available) being fat increased chances of survival, and was the sign of good health. It's still perceived in such a way in poor countries today.
The damage absorption of fat is grossly exaggerated. Its semi-liquid consistency transmits the shockwaves from blunt trauma very effectively; it proves no significant barrier to the penetration of a piercing weapon and little obstruction to a slashing one. Additionally injuries sustained by the overweight take a greater time to heal and any invasive medical procedures carry with them a greatly increased risk of complications. The overweight also have poorer circulation of blood and lymphatic fluids due both to the deposition of plaque on blood vessel walls and the increased blood demand represented by the excess adipose tissue. This circulatory deficit adversely affects athletic performance in both short term and long term endurance.
It is in fact muscle and bone that absorbs damage more than any other tissues in the body. I'm sure you've all seen martial artists have planks broken over their heads and bellys on the TV, and I doubt any of them exhibited an excess of body fat.
Constitution is as much an act of willpower as it is of any other factor. It allows you to keep fighting through wounds that would fell lesser characters, keep running when you feel you have nothing left to give, keep holding your breath as you struggle towards the surface, to stay alive in the face of poisons and diseases and life draining abilities.
In my opinion it is your hit-points that should most influence your physical appearance, that way the Gnome sorcerers with 18 con need not all look like Lil' Hercules or Eric Cartman. I feel this is appropriate because it reflects the lethal/non-lethal aspect of a high constitution score.
As for high Dex I would look at the physique of professional dancers as inspiration for all those dervishes and monks out there. I would also look at combat martial artists (rather than exhibition ones), the world Tae Kwon Do champion isn't very much to look at with his shirt on, but at that sort of level co-ordination and application have more to do with strength than weight and muscle mass.
This fella is 4 times Olympic gold medalist Sejin Park ( He has all kinds of other cool titles, but anyone that interested can look 'em up themselves).
Strength doesn't have much to do with height. It helps, but it's not vital. Many champion weightlifters are fairly short and stocky. They do have muscles though, but not extreme bulky kinds. Then there are strong men who pull trucks and cars for records and demonstrations, and they are generally bulky guys, but again, not body sculptor types. Take a look at people like Bruce Lee, toned as heck. He could knock a person a few feet back with a one inch punch. But where is the line drawn between raw physical ability and training.
Now let me describe my physique (keep in mind, I'm female):
I'm 5'10" tall, and I weigh 110. Yes, I know that's very skinny, but keep in mind my Con score of 6. I have a pretty good manual dexterity and grace (I'm an archer and a dancer), but I get tired easily (once again, Con 6).
As far as strength goes, I have below average overall strength. My upper body has less proportionally than my lower body does (dancing does that to you). It's not too far below average, though, I'm not a weakling.
I'm not sure how much sense that made.
Feats are used to decide a lot of the individual issues that some people only see as stat-based. The marathon runner is a good example. Endurance, Run, etc. help to define someone as an exceptional long-distance runner. A good CON bonus is important to avoid nonlethal damage, but CON isn't the only factor in D&D.
The only reason 3.5 uses CHA for looks is that they dumped a seventh stat from previous editions that specifically related to looks (can't remember the name now, because we never used it).
As DM, you might decide that certain traits of a stat are more important than others, and require your players to develop a description based on those traits, but is it really all that important? It is a Fantasy role-playing game, after all. Let your players live the fantasy.
Besides, you could always make it work against them if you wanted it to. For example, take the STR 12 bard who looks like STR 18. Put them in a situation where a burly barbarian tribe requires a contest of strength to allow the characters to pass unhindered through their lands. The chief calls out the bard because he looks big & strong. The resulting failure might cause the barbarians to require tribute, or perform some undesirable task. Work it into the storyline and it will make it more interesting for everyone.
STR:
I think there are different types of strength, because it depends on what you are doing. In high school most other guys could out bench press me, but I could out push-up most of them due to martial art training. Who was stronger? They could squat more, carry more, and have more muscle into a fight, but I am am better at putting all my muscles into a strike (thus generating more power) and making my strikes do more damage. Since STR calculates both carrying capacity and attack/damage rolls, I think "regular" strength and knowing how to use your body to increase your power should be included. So someone who does not look like a body builder or is fat (it takes some muscle to life all that fat all day, plus you can throw around your weight!) could have STR 13 or 14.
CON:
I think mental toughness has something to play in this. It doesn't matter how tough or resistant to poisons you are, if you do not have the mental fortitude to look past the pain, no matter how minor, you will cave in. There have been studies that show if people believe they are going to die or expect to, they will probably do so more frequently when compared to someone who has a "never say die" attitude and keeps fighting. I also think size has a factor. Have a heavy weight boxer take a punch from another heavy weight boxer. Now have a feather weight boxer take a punch from a heavy weight boxer. Lets see who comes out on top in that one. I imagine someone with a CON of 15+ to be stubborn and hard to faze when it comes to injury, a study frame, a generally healthy person, and someone with decent physical size.
DEX:
I really think anything goes in this category. I have seen very agile football players, skinny "geeks" (no offense!) with excellent hand-eye coordination, and more "chubby" people who could kick me in the head before I could react if I wasn't prepared (and I am 6' tall).
So...I guess my point to this is that stats are not a very good indicator of physical appearance and it all depends on what your body is geared for.
I am a very healthy person who hardly ever gets sick, is rather agile, can take a hit, and has great stamina, and can bench press my own weight with relative difficulty. So I would translate that to good con and dex, with low to average str. By your article I would be fat and agile, but I'm rather skinny, like twig skinny. I'm about 5' 11" and weigh less than 160lbs.
Also, your arguments about damage absorption are also flawed. That is much more tied into mental states and discipline than fat. My sensai was lean and petite as can be, but that lady could take some punishment. We were doing pushups by the hundred one time and she told me that she simply would not let herself stop - she'd do them all, and then be tired. Also, watch Fight Club - "Skinny guys you can beat 'till they're burger." (Not saying that Fight Club is the factual truth on RL fighting, just quoting).
As far as CHA goes - you can be as handsome as you want, but if you walk into a room, burp/fart at the same time, grab some hot dogs and start gnawing away, then walk up to people slapping them on the back and talking loudly (with hotdog coming out all over) - that's gotta be an exceptionally unaverage CHA. Or what about some geek that keeps bringing up how Half races come about (It's when raiding orcs seize all the women and **** them) - you telling me that's a high CHA just because he looks like Orlando Bloom?
It's a mix of the two - personality and looks. I've known some ugly dudes that given the choice I'd hang with all the time. CHA needs to be RPed, not listed as a scale.
I had the feeling that CON would be highly disputed. And the entire post I made relies on ShadowMagyk's explanation: In the D&D world there's no McDonalds or Burger King. Everyone has hard physical labour, other than rich merchants. And even they have workdays filled with running back and forth between warehouses or caravans making sure that things are going according to plan.
Cardinal Teplin, you are right. STR in the vast majority of cases correlates directly with height and body weight, but not always.
People who practice some forms of martial arts may have greater effective strength than they appear because the learn to use their muscles' power efficiently. Its quite amazing to see what a person can do with circular motions and correct balance.
These are feats and class features. Every monk starts out doing twice as much damage lethal damage with his unarmed strike than any other character of his size. I might argue, in fact, that some of what you describe is more Wis-based mind over matter type stuff than actual physical strength. Those martial artists won't likely be Olympic clean and jerk champions, but they can beat their way through a brick wall by focusing their ki.
On the other hand, some people with bulging muscles may generate a lot of power with their muscles, but may not be able to use it efficiently. A char with low effective strength but large muscles may have no technique at all, simply swinging their arm's mass to punch.
Technique really has nothing to do with strength. Technique is BAB and feats/class features. A Commoner1 with an 18 STR will flail around wildly, but if he ever manages to hit you, it will likely hurt. Maybe not quite as bad as if he'd taken Improved Unarmed Strike instead of Skill Focus (Profession(Mechanic))...
On the issue of Con - weight correlation:
I agree with Aramil, that having high Constitution usually means being quite fat.
Knarfy's argument (about excessive weight being unhealthy) doesn't hold. Being overweight began to pose a problem in modern times - with easily accessible high-caloric food, working by the desk and spending hours watching TV. In middle ages (with much more physical work and less food available) being fat increased chances of survival, and was the sign of good health. It's still perceived in such a way in poor countries today.
I might as well chip in here...
I'd like to point out that the perception of the reality isn't the same thing as the reality. Just because someone once perceived fat to be healthy doesn't necessarily mean that it is. After all, the common perception was once that the world was flat-and I think it's safe to assume that it isn't and wasn't even back then, despite their claims.
So when a character is fat, he might be percieved as being "healthy" but actually have a low CON score overall because being overweight does have detrimental effects on one's health.
To name another example; It was once believed that red hair meant that the person with the hair in question was in some way more likely to be a witch than otherwise. Assume that the same holds true in your game. Does that mean in game terms that all redheads get a bonus to their spellcasting? probably not, but that's still the public perception. Just because the general public believes it doesn't mean it's true; ignorance is ignorance, no matter how much of it you have.
On the issue of Con - weight correlation:
I agree with Aramil, that having high Constitution usually means being quite fat.
Knarfy's argument (about excessive weight being unhealthy) doesn't hold. Being overweight began to pose a problem in modern times - with easily accessible high-caloric food, working by the desk and spending hours watching TV. In middle ages (with much more physical work and less food available) being fat increased chances of survival, and was the sign of good health. It's still perceived in such a way in poor countries today.
I have to disagree on all counts. Trying to compare the D&D world to the middle ages or any other period in history creates a problem. I would argue that if a D&D setting actually existed those people would be far better off (in regards to health) than people who actually lived in history. Simply compare medical practices: Leeches and coughing to get the evil spirits out are no match for a good old remove disease and cure light wounds spells. Throw in that the local priest can, in times of food shortages, create food and water each and every day. In such a circumstance I could see being overweight a negative thing.
A high constitution does not have to mean you're beefy. What were basically talking about here is durability or endurance. Look at marathon runners and tri-athletes. I would wager that there isn't a single one of them over 160lbs. If you want a true measure of weight look at strength. I have never seen a 160lbs person lift 300lbs.
Being overweight doesn't mean that you are unhealthy. For example, if you were to get a sickness that made you unable to keep food down who has the better chance of overcoming this sickness the "fat" guy or the slim guy. The fat guy can go without a meal for a few days, and while he would be affected his body would have those fat reserves to draw on. The slim guy while he could be alright has less stores of body fat to draw upon, and would be more fatigued. Also if you fall and there is a couple inches of cushioning the chance of chipping or breaking a bone are drastically less than someone who is just muscle and bone. I may be wrong but it has been my experience that muscle is not a very yielding tissue, it tears, strains, cramps, etc. I am not saying that the more fat the better, but a thick person is healthier than a slim person in my opinion.
Good points, but consider this:
Fat tissue is scientifically proven to absorb toxins and retain them in the body. An overweight person's body therefore, is especially prone to poison, something that requires a fortitude save, which is based off of constitution, to resist. Therefore, being fat can work both ways. I'd rule that you don't have to be fat at all to have a high con score. I always say con as the endurance factor of your character, and generally speaking, fat people can not run as long as thinly muscled people.
I always wondered what it would look like compared to other Ogres or even compared to your typical 20 strength Half orc Barbarian.
If you wanted to create a trait such as the ones in Unearthed Arcana for obesity then the effects would most likely be a +2 to fortitude saves against starvation, a -1 to all other fortitude saves, a +2 bonus to combat associated checks such as for bullrushing an opponent or resisting a bullrush, a -1 penalty to those who attempt a heal check on the character, and perhaps a damage reduction of 1.
I think a normal constitution represents a deviation from the extremes of obesity, anorexia and frailty, in other words (the norm) whereas any further increase beyond that point may be represented by looking increasingly younger than one's own age (within reason (aka not looking younger than one's prime)), or having exceptionally good looks because many attractive physical features are actually a sign of good health (i.e. facial symmetry representing decreased risk of mental abnormalities/disorders, healthy skin representing proper functioning of internal organs). Good physical strength, flexibility and agility are also signs of good health and are often found visually attractive, but do not fall under the purview of Constitution.
A high strength does not necessarily represent a hulk-like physique. It's true that weight lifting often results in bulging muscles (and increased risk of injury during physical activity) so it is reasonable to assume that characters with high strength scores who tend to carry heavy loads and swing axes will conform to the hulk-like build. However, there are exorcises which use no external weight in addition to that of the body which I have personally used to reap better results, in terms of strength, than I have with weight training. Despite the fact that I'm more of a Bruce Lee build than a Chuck Norris, others who have employed the training routine I now use also come off looking more compact yet are able to bench press more than those who only weight lift.
For characters who have a high strength there are the extreme options of a build resembling that of either spiderman or the hulk with much variation in between depending on the type of training routine of the character and the body type with which the character in question is born.
Though some believe that strength only represents how much one can lift being able to lift more isn't going to make one's attacks inflict more damage unless one intends to drop increasingly heavier objects on one's enemies. The formula for the Kinetic Energy of a moving object is as follows E=1/2mv^2 (meaning 1 half the objects mass times the square of its velocity). As one can easily determine, getting stronger does not automatically render one's sword heavier; however, if strength truly does increase the damage one inflicts with a melee attack then one must be swinging their sword at a greater velocity as their strength increases. Therefore it seems that a character's speed is not confined to his/her dexterity score. Consider also that mass effects energy on a linear basis whereas velocity's effect is exponential.
Dexterity probably finds its representatives among such esoteric traits (traits for the few) as flexibility, coordination (small motor skills only (seeing as hand eye coordination is the purview of BAB)), balance and speed of reaction (aka agility). High flexibility and strength are not opposing traits though many body builders and various other athletes entertain that belief. Using the same training routine of which I spoke earlier one can facilitate greater flexibility as I have seen with myself and others. Therefore it does not logically follow that the goals of Dexterity and Strength are obstacles to each other's achievement.
The visual display of dexterity mostly lies in one's performance as opposed to one's outward appearance though it may contribute to the physical size of one's build. If you've seen the movie "The Run Down" there are various scenes in which the Rock displays grace which would not usually be expected of a person that size.
In the middle ages, being fat was not a sign of good health, it did nothing to improve your chances of survival. It was a sign of gluttony. Having a healthy frame and being prosperous would lead to a small amount of padding, but nothing that would obscure general muscle tone or interfere with daily life. A healthy man with enough wealth for food may not have looked like a Flex Magazine cover man, or a GQ underwear model, but they weren't Billy Bob down at the bar with a beer gut.
The ideal male figure was then, almost the same as it is now. Lean, well muscled and balanced. The torsos and hip/thigh area of many classic sculptures show this. It's from a heavier, on your feet and working culture though, Helenistic work shows this quite well. As for the idea of fat women being healthier, the often sited defense of such ideas, that stems from something entirely different than 'health'. It's all about fertility, has been since the Stone Age. Women need to have a certain level of body fat to menstruate and without that they can't bare children. Two prime concerns of men of the period when considering a wife were what her dowry would bring into his holdings and would she produce an heir. Wide, childbearing hips, and some body fat, which is naturally higher in women than men, were good signs that a woman could have children. This is where the whole idea stems from.
To sum up. Large amounts of fat does not mean high Con and in most instances is a sign of lower than average.
Kail
Although, I think D&D does a nice job at giving a good amount of flexibility without an overly complex system, it does not always create the perfect result. Furthermore, as suggested above, a character's abilities are not limited to their stats but include class levels, skills and feats (for example someone with a 10 DEX and a tumble score of 20 may move with more grace than a character with an 18 DEX and no ranks in tumble).
I do however agree that someone who describes their character as 6'3" 235 lbs of solid muscle probably should choose a STR and CON of 8.
Being overweight doesn't mean that you are unhealthy. For example, if you were to get a sickness that made you unable to keep food down who has the better chance of overcoming this sickness the "fat" guy or the slim guy. The fat guy can go without a meal for a few days, and while he would be affected his body would have those fat reserves to draw on. The slim guy while he could be alright has less stores of body fat to draw upon, and would be more fatigued. Also if you fall and there is a couple inches of cushioning the chance of chipping or breaking a bone are drastically less than someone who is just muscle and bone. I may be wrong but it has been my experience that muscle is not a very yielding tissue, it tears, strains, cramps, etc. I am not saying that the more fat the better, but a thick person is healthier than a slim person in my opinion.
Sorry, I have to disagree. There is a certain amount of fat that your body needs to work its basic functions every day. If you are more than 10lbs overweigh, what your height and body structure say you should be, it can start to affect your health. Being 20-30 lbs overweight can significantly affect your health. If you are overweight it is not healthy. Just because you can last longer with out food doesn't mean that you are healthier than the slender one. People that are overweight are more apt to get sick on a regular basis. This I know from experience. Just lost 40 lbs after joining the local gym and dieting with professionals.
Lake
the biggest problem with pinning down exact correspondencies is that tyhe three physical stats are summaries of several talents lumped together. for instance, I can't decide what my dexterity would be in D&D.
i seem to have great reflex saves and ac, and high bonuses on whole-body stuff like balance, tumble, etc., but my ranged attack bonuses are low, as are my hand coordination skills like open lock and use rope.
as for CON, i'm disturbingly thin, and my HP probably aren't great. i tire quickly but recover quickly, and i'm quite resistant to poisons and diseases.
What about the other three abilities? It's obvious that INT and WIS aren't going to affect a character's physical appearance, but CHA may. A high CHA score may mean your character is fairly good looking. Or in the case of a half-orc, maybe he got more human facial qualities allowing him to be more pleasing to the eye in social situations.
A rogue with a high CHA may not only have a silver tongue, so to speak, but also handsome features.
Likewise, a low CHA could perhaps make the character have facial deformities or scars, not just stuttering and other speech impairments. And our half-orc above may now be much more orc-like in appearance.
Note: The half-orc mentioned is used a typical campaign world. If the party is a band of orcs or other goblinoids, than you may want to reverse the facial features mentioned above.
Perhaps the most valuable aspect of this thread is the opportunity to refute the "+CHA = +pretty" myth.
The fatal flaw in this idea is exposed in the note: beauty is subjective, but CHA is objective. A sorcerer who suffers disfigurement does not lose CHA, and therefore does not lose spellcasting power, but he sure is uglier than he was before.
A charismatic orc does not, necessarily, look better than an uncharismatic orc. The charismatic orc, to a humanoid which considers orcs ugly, will be fearsome to behold. The uncharismatic orc will simply be revolting. They may appear largely the same, or even be identical twins, yet the impression of their appearance will be different.
Remember, the Balor has CHA 26, exactly twice as charismatic as the most charismatic human possible. That doesn't make Balors beauty queens. It makes Balors fearsome and intimidating.
I'm aware that some people totally disregard their stats when writing their appearance. This is an oversight that should be remedied. Constitution represents "health and stamina", says the 3.5PHB. In my eyes, this relates to efficiency of the body, and its ability to resist poison and disease and endure physical punishment. None of these things are always outwardly apparent, as far as I'm aware; it seems more a measure of the internal workings of the body than the outward.
Though the stats may give an indication of appearance, each individual is different; some people's muscles are more compact and efficient than others. Elves, for example, have compact muscles that work just as well as a human's, and do so in less space.
While they can (and should) be used as a basis for appearance, I agree with Cardinal Teplin- the correlation between ability scores and appearance isn't concretely measurable simply because there's too much variation between different species, and even within the species themselves. In my opinion, they'd be best used as guidelines rather than rules.
Using the max lift chart is a great resource. Please bare with me cause there is a bit of math for this one.
First take the average of your characters Str & Con (Str+Con) and divide by 2. Now take that number and reduce it by the characters Dex modifier (or increase it if the character has a negative Dex modifier) and then compare this new number with the encumbrance chart as if it were the strength score. The Max heavy load is the minimum weight for the character.
The reason for the dex portion is that agile character have a tendency to be much leaner then someone who is clumsy.
Try the system out, I think you will agree with my results. Because it means that a character who is the peak physical athlete 18 str, dex, and con would be expected to weigh in at just shy of 200 pounds. But a Football lineman 18 for str and con but less for dex, could easily weigh in at near 300 lbs.
Just to prove my point I will do a few examples
Str:18 Dex:18 Con:18 Character minimum weight 175lbs
Str:18 Dex:18 Con:14 Character Min weight: 100lbs
Str:14 Dex:15 Con:10 Character min Weight: 100lbs
Str:10 Dex:14 Con:10 Character Min Weight: 80lbs
Str:14: Dex:10 Con:14 Character Min Weight: 175lbs
Str:16 Dex:12 Con 16 Character Min Weight: 200lbs
It may seem like some of these numbers are off but if you consider the stats I put forward for each of them accurately reflects the kind of build you would see on various characters. Characters with a high dex and little other physical stats will tend to look extremely skinny and frail--frailer since their heightened agility further highlights their skinny appearance. Characters with a low dex but good strength and Con have a weight that would make them appear to be more heavy set and powerful looking.
The outer reaches of this of course are as follows
Super skinny Str:01 Dex:20 Con:01 Min Weight 10lbs
Considering that in order to get such low strength and con scores you would have to be a creature of at the very least small size the character would be gaunt even for his/her smaller race.
Or for the big boys (not counting Giants)
Super Bulky Str:24 Dex:4 Con:24 Min: Weight 1,040lbs
Once again it is likely that you would have to have a creature of large size or greater to achieve these kind of stats and still be considered a playable character. And the weight is comparable with a creature that is simply huge with muscles on top of muscles.
Try it with some of your characters.
An example of someone possessing all of these scores is the modern non-heavy weight Greco-Roman wrestler. The muscle formed from wrestling and wrestling training is usually very lean and light, a necessary genetic component for the sport. Most middle weights at college and Olympic level can bench upwards of 250, but are also supposed to be able to run five minute miles and take the pain of being put into various painful positions and legally being beaten across the face. And those are people weighing 140-171 pounds, who are usually very toned but not bulky.
A Dwarf is stocky and has a high constitution. This means they are able to withstand more pain, not that they don't feel it. Martial Artists condition their bodies to gain the ability to take blows. Boxers also do this. Pain can also be fought against through sheer willpower, which is why there is the feat MIND OVER BODY(Key ability mod for determining spells is added to HP at first level instead of constitution. Every Metamagic feat learned also adds 1 to max HP. From Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) for spellcasters.
I don't feel like a high constitution will make a character have more fat on them. If there is fat on a character, it might give them a better HP but not a better FORT save (because they are not healthy) and should slow them down a bit. If fat had to do with constitution, a level 20 Dwarf Barbarian with a constitution of 22 should have an awful lot of fat on him. The idea of constitution increasing through level growth is that they learn to take pain through the experience of battle.
So to sum up, constitution is more like the condition of their skin and muscles. A character with a high constitution might have skin that is thick and rough and muscles that are developed to take blows more than to be used for power.
Hit Dice
The level 20 barbarian with 8 con assuming average hit points has a hp of 115.
Also for other examples, there are feats. Toughness, endurance, run, maybe weapon finesse, all sorts of things! My elf monk got all 18's in his physical stats (20 in dex) (wild elf, but just don't ask) and he really only had those stats because of Ki, it so yeah, will and training does influence his stats.
Oh, one more thing: Charisma doesn't directly influence your looks, but a high charisma makes you maybe have this mysterious allure, or unexplainable comeliness. And a low charisma makes people annoyed or offended somehow on a rudimentary level by everything or near everything you do.
BTW, TwistedShadow, nice system. I think -20 - +50% to your weight take would be fair. I'm supposed to weigh 115 lbs (about 52 kg) at most, but I have love handles that aren't really a bother me, so I'm about 172 lbs (78 kg). Also remember that muscle is heavier than fat. ;)
Note: The following statements are generalizations and stereotypes. I'll try to make everything make sense within the confines of the game, but not everything is possible.
Characters apply their Strength modifier as a positive modifier to their height roll, and they apply their Dexterity modifier as a negative modifier to their height roll. For example, someone with an 18 Str and an 18 Dex would apply no bonus or penalty to their roll, while someone with an 16 Str and an 8 Dex would add +4 to their height roll. For humans, this accounts for only a few extra inches, and a few extra pounds because the height roll is used to determine weight.
Smaller people tend to be weaker; as in they tend to be able to lift less. The damage inflicted by a punch is more about technique; Improved Unarmed Strike makes the damage lethal, and feats like Weapon Specialization and Power Attack can increase the damage as well (I'm only referencing feats that make sense in reality, as opposed to feats like Iron Fist). An opposed strength check is the heart of the Bull Rush maneuver; smaller people are easier to push.
Now, it is true that there are exceptions. I think that they are largely made by feats. Someone with cleaver wrestling and improved grapple will be deceptively stronger than they look when it comes to their grip. Adrenaline goes a long way to boosting your strength as well, as Barbarian Rage shows.
As for the original poster's topic, I've been saying this for a while as well. Charisma should have nothing to do with how you look, but how you appear. Remember, appearance is a function of viewer's own senses an interpretations. Someone with higher Charisma often appears to be better looking, but that's because they're generally easier to get along with (higher diplomacy and bluff) and are quite commanding (higher intimidate). Someone with a horrible scar across their face with low charisma might be said to have an "ugly scar", while someone with a high charisma would have a "distinguishing mark."
As for Constitution affecting appearance, someone with a higher Con is healthier and has higher endurance. Remember, damage taken before reducing you to negative points hasn't wounded you; HP is more about endurance than durability (a reason I'm an advocate of the WP/VP system). But someone with high Con will also be free of infections; they'll have less acne when young and thus less acne scars when old, they won't have boils or other disfigurements, and their skin color will be healthy (not blotched; freckles are not blotches).
As for being overweight, I think overweight (weight over what you could be depending on your weight roll) should be applied as additional equipment to a character's carrying capacity. I don't know what kind of bonus it would give (since every penalty in D&D should come with a bonus when it comes to character decisions), but that penalty makes sense (probably bonus to resist bullrush, overrun, and trip attacks).
Plus attractiveness is something that is entirely subjective, especially when dealing with different races e.g. dwarves find dwarves attractive, orcs find orcs attractive, and so on.
I'm thinking of that scene in one of the Star Trek: TNG movies, where the Klingon sisters, Lursa and Beh'tor (sp?) are on the main screen and looking at the Enterprise bridge crew. One says to the other, "Human females are so repulsive!" while looking totally repulsive themselves, to our human eyes.
I would also say that a low CON character would likely have a pallid, sickly look about their complexion, whereas a high CON character would have a hale and hearty look.
I would say, therefore, that a person with high constitution would have a more weathered look, would be heartier, not necessarily fatter. Fat causes health problems, not reduces them. Constitution reduces health problems. So our image of a low constitution person would be pale, sickly, waxy in appearance and usually with some small cough or rhinorrhea. Our image of a high constitution should be tough as nails, never sick, warm, constantly full of energy. Fat or thin are not reliant upon ability scores.