Prestige Classes: A Treatise - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Prestige Classes: A Treatise

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 11, 2005 7:00:00 Prestige Classes: A Treatise

One of the newest crazes/fads of D&D has undoubtedly been the Prestige Class (hereon referred to as PrC) that was presented as an optional rule/system in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. They are classes with less than 20 levels, and have certain requirements a character must meet before taking any levels in them. They were originally designed, I assume, to tie players to a DM’s campaign world and help give rules to special groups of people, but nowadays they are seen more as ‘Advanced Classes’. What this means is that they are now just like character options, in most peoples campaigns any Wizards of the Coast published PrC is allowed, and can be used like you would a new spell or feat. This caused various issues, most of which this article wishes to address at least in some respect.

Prestige Classes and Organizations

Since we assume that PrCs were designed to add more flavour and uniqueness to various guilds, societies and races this is one of the first issues we shall address. Most DMs allow nearly any PrC in there game and don’t tie it to a campaign, which is fine if you enjoy that but I urge DMs and players alike that tying them to the world can be a lot more rewarding and fun. But this requires lots of extra work, and as most DMs will admit time is one of the main things they are short of.

But it is not all so bleak. PrCs were being made as bland as possible so they could easily fit into any world, but recently Wizards has released a new format that details the organization, its typical members, relations with other organizations, etc. and this will hopefully start turning PrCs around and back into what they were originally intended to be. This is probably the easiest issue to address though, since it just requires the DM to either make a new organization for the PrC or tie the PrC to an already established one.

Prestige Classes and Responsibilities

Something a lot of people forget is that by taking a PrC you are (or at least should be) tying yourself to a group of people, a geographical location, a set of morals or something else. This means that you have a responsibility to further the cause of your organization or morals, and the failure to do so often prevent you from using certain abilities. For example the Blackguard PrC in the DMG is designed for a group of Ex-Paladins who have fallen to Evil but use there training as a Paladin in different and corrupting ways. A Blackguard that turns Good loses many abilities, cannot advance in the class anymore and is left generally useless (since you cannot become a Paladin again after falling). These restrictions force players to think carefully about PrCing when used properly because they do limit your character, no doubt about it. But along with these expectations there also comes power, especially over weaker members or the organization.

Prestige Classes and Purpose

While most PrCs serve a flavour purpose, all must serve some sort of mechanical purpose to make them distinct from the other classes and PrCs. Thus PrCs mainly fit into one of the following categories:

Specialization: PrCs that fit into this category are those that take ability or a sub-optimal choice and make it more powerful or worthwhile doing, hopefully at the expense of other abilities. Examples of this in the DMG are the Lore Master who focuses on knowledge and divination and the Thaumaturgist who focuses on contacting and summoning extraplanar beings.

Variety: The opposite of specialization PrCs, these ones focus on giving characters more options outside of what is normally possible with there character, or just giving them another classes abilities while still advancing some of there own. Examples of this are the Assassin with its Rogue like skills but with some spellcasting and the Red Wizard aimed at circle magic.

Gestalt: While I’m unsure of where the term originated, in D&D it refers to an optional system presented in Unearthed Arcana that allows one to advance in two classes at once like they were advancing in only one. A Gestalt PrC is similar in that it takes two classes, takes bits from both of them and allows a character to continue advancing in both faster than if they just took alternate levels in them. These are most commonly the most powerful because they generally are a lot better than just taking alternate levels.

Racial: These PrCs are those designed to flesh out races and to show how members of that race commonly behave in society, warfare and trade.

Ex-classes: These are PrCs designed for characters that have fallen out of a class but wish to get some of their abilities back. The only example of this in the DMG is the Blackguard although in Complete Divine there is the Blighter, too. These PrCs are one of the easiest to design and balance since they just give back some of a character’s lost abilities and substitutes for those that just wouldn’t make sense any more.

Prestige Classes and Balance

This is where PrCs fall down, balance. The DMG says that taking a level in a PrC should be no more desirable than taking a level in your current class, but how many times have you actually seen that? That’s because a lot of people think PrCs should be more powerful since they are often more narrowly focused and have specific requirements. The problem is that these rarely if ever balance the class, and we have reached a point where if you don’t take a PrC you will be severely weaker than someone who does.

The biggest proponent of this is what’s called a ‘full caster’ or ‘full manifester’ PrC. This term is given to PrCs that have +1 existing spellcasting or manifesting class at every level, which effectively means you won’t be any worse at casting than a pure class. Now nearly all PrCs add more onto full spellcasting progression, and this is what makes it unbalanced. The ‘bargaining chip’, or what a PrC’d class loses out on, is very small for most casters. The Wizard and Sorcerer’s familiar is only good for role-playing most of the time and a Cleric’s turn undead after about 10th level becomes rather useless too. So with so little to lose and so much to gain, can you blame people for PrCing? Of course not.

But that doesn’t mean it’s OK as it is and the following is my general advice to those who run games, develop PrCs and just everyone who uses them in general. First of all work out the concept of the PrC, it should be something that couldn’t just be a feat or two. Next work out what sorts of people would be entering the class, this helps you work out prerequisites and what sorts of class abilities you’d like to continue advancing. Once you have all this outlined work out an outline of the class, with the general abilities you’d like them to get at each level. Don’t worry about mechanics just yet, get the concept down first. Once you have done this you should set the requirements, remembering to make sure that you would need to be at least level 6 to take the first level. For more details on what makes a good prerequisite and the further steps in developing a PrC, consult the DMG or DMG2.

Now the above was for people making there own PrCs, which I know is a lot less common than just using a Wizards one so we’ll cover that next. Choosing a PrC for an organization could be done either way, you could see a PrC you like and make a guild/group for it or already have one and hunt for a PrC that fits the theme. Once you do just change the flavour text of the PrC, and you will be good except for the mechanics. I advise not allowing any full caster PrCs, or any that when you look at them think ‘why would I take another level of [whatever] when I could take a level in this!’. If you really like the idea of the class but it is over (or less often under) powered you’ll need to tweak it, the most common thing is for full casters change there spell progression to only every other level or two with then one without, etc.

Prestige Classes and Multi-classing

Since taking levels in a PrC forces a character to multi-class topic is important to all PrCs. Many PrC are also developed to combine two classes into one, meaning a character would have at least 3 classes. A lot of problems come when DMs don’t properly enforce XP-penalties, so make sure you review the section on it near the beginning of the Player’s Handbook. Many people use custom rules for multi-classing but the ones presented in the PHB do fine in most campaigns. Also, remember that since Monks, Paladins, etc. can’t multi-class freely that PrCs aimed at them should either be worth the loss of the previous abilities or should have a note saying that you can take levels of Monk after taking at least one level in the PrC.

The thing is that the second most powerful PrCs are those that combine two classes. These PrCs commonly take two quite different classes and combine there best features together; effectively making a character better than if they had just stayed with one or two base classes. When you are making such a PrC, or are looking over one in a book just check and see if you feel it is better than just taking another level in one of the classes it combines. An example of this in the DMG is the Mystic Theurge that combines both full Arcane and Divine casting into one class (which for an Arcane/Divine character is certainly more attractive).

Conclusion

While this article only begins to touch on the whole concept and system of PrCs, it will hopefully give you further insight into there purpose and design. Of course all of this unofficial and is just what I think, so if you disagree then that’s fine (and even expected I guess). For more info on PrCs check out the DMG2 which has a large section on it, and don’t be afraid to ask for help on the boards. And remember that a good PrC needs a good idea, balanced abilities, and plenty of flavour and support in the world (often but not always in the form of a guild).

Until next time, seyah!
#2
Edymnion
Nov 13, 2005 16:32:54 Have you seen my article on PrC?
[thread=101790]Prestige Classes, What Are They, What Were They, and What Will They Become?[/thread]
#3
pawsplay
Nov 13, 2005 16:37:33 I question whether a Mystic Theurge is more powerful than a single classed character. They are obviously better at some things. However, they can not cast as high level spells, and have a lower caster level, than a pure caster of any sort. A Cleric with the right domains can combine healing with firepower at no loss of casting ability, and a high level Wizard or Sorcerer has vastly more spell options. The Bard, whom a Mystic Theurge approximately matches in raw casting ability, surpasses the MT in skill points, saving throws, and Base Attack Bonus.

There are two reasons to be a Mystic Theurge. First, they can do some double duty, albeit each job weekly. Second, they have a very high number of low level spells, which is useful in a variety of ways. The reason the class exists is because otherwise a cleric/wizard is likely to be vastly underpowered.

Another weakness of the MT is that you can't tack on another Prestige Class and further boost your double casting ability. The MT is about one thing and one thing only: combining the ability to cast fireball with the ability to raise dead.
#4
khelvaster
Nov 13, 2005 20:41:45 Prestige Classes and Multi-classing
Since taking levels in a PrC forces a character to multi-class topic is important to all PrCs. Many PrC are also developed to combine two classes into one, meaning a character would have at least 3 classes. A lot of problems come when DMs don’t properly enforce XP-penalties, so make sure you review the section on it near the beginning of the Player’s Handbook. Many people use custom rules for multi-classing but the ones presented in the PHB do fine in most campaigns. Also, remember that since Monks, Paladins, etc. can’t multi-class freely that PrCs aimed at them should either be worth the loss of the previous abilities or should have a note saying that you can take levels of Monk after taking at least one level in the PrC.
And here, you are completely wrong. It is explicitly stated in the DMG that prestige classes don't count towards multiclassing penalty. Therefore, builds that incorporate 2 base classes and a prestige class in order to qualify for another prestige class (such as many fochlucan lyrist builds) do not incur multiclassing penalties as long as one of the classes is a favored class(and seeing how with humans and half-humans any class is a favored class, this is hardly ever a problem).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 11, 2005 7:00:00	Prestige Classes: A Treatise One of the newest crazes/fads of D&D has undoubtedly been the Prestige Class (hereon referred to as PrC) that was presented as an optional rule/system in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. They are classes with less than 20 levels, and have certain requirements a character must meet before taking any levels in them. They were originally designed, I assume, to tie players to a DM’s campaign world and help give rules to special groups of people, but nowadays they are seen more as ‘Advanced Classes’. What this means is that they are now just like character options, in most peoples campaigns any Wizards of the Coast published PrC is allowed, and can be used like you would a new spell or feat. This caused various issues, most of which this article wishes to address at least in some respect. Prestige Classes and Organizations Since we assume that PrCs were designed to add more flavour and uniqueness to various guilds, societies and races this is one of the first issues we shall address. Most DMs allow nearly any PrC in there game and don’t tie it to a campaign, which is fine if you enjoy that but I urge DMs and players alike that tying them to the world can be a lot more rewarding and fun. But this requires lots of extra work, and as most DMs will admit time is one of the main things they are short of. But it is not all so bleak. PrCs were being made as bland as possible so they could easily fit into any world, but recently Wizards has released a new format that details the organization, its typical members, relations with other organizations, etc. and this will hopefully start turning PrCs around and back into what they were originally intended to be. This is probably the easiest issue to address though, since it just requires the DM to either make a new organization for the PrC or tie the PrC to an already established one. Prestige Classes and Responsibilities Something a lot of people forget is that by taking a PrC you are (or at least should be) tying yourself to a group of people, a geographical location, a set of morals or something else. This means that you have a responsibility to further the cause of your organization or morals, and the failure to do so often prevent you from using certain abilities. For example the Blackguard PrC in the DMG is designed for a group of Ex-Paladins who have fallen to Evil but use there training as a Paladin in different and corrupting ways. A Blackguard that turns Good loses many abilities, cannot advance in the class anymore and is left generally useless (since you cannot become a Paladin again after falling). These restrictions force players to think carefully about PrCing when used properly because they do limit your character, no doubt about it. But along with these expectations there also comes power, especially over weaker members or the organization. Prestige Classes and Purpose While most PrCs serve a flavour purpose, all must serve some sort of mechanical purpose to make them distinct from the other classes and PrCs. Thus PrCs mainly fit into one of the following categories: Specialization: PrCs that fit into this category are those that take ability or a sub-optimal choice and make it more powerful or worthwhile doing, hopefully at the expense of other abilities. Examples of this in the DMG are the Lore Master who focuses on knowledge and divination and the Thaumaturgist who focuses on contacting and summoning extraplanar beings. Variety: The opposite of specialization PrCs, these ones focus on giving characters more options outside of what is normally possible with there character, or just giving them another classes abilities while still advancing some of there own. Examples of this are the Assassin with its Rogue like skills but with some spellcasting and the Red Wizard aimed at circle magic. Gestalt: While I’m unsure of where the term originated, in D&D it refers to an optional system presented in Unearthed Arcana that allows one to advance in two classes at once like they were advancing in only one. A Gestalt PrC is similar in that it takes two classes, takes bits from both of them and allows a character to continue advancing in both faster than if they just took alternate levels in them. These are most commonly the most powerful because they generally are a lot better than just taking alternate levels. Racial: These PrCs are those designed to flesh out races and to show how members of that race commonly behave in society, warfare and trade. Ex-classes: These are PrCs designed for characters that have fallen out of a class but wish to get some of their abilities back. The only example of this in the DMG is the Blackguard although in Complete Divine there is the Blighter, too. These PrCs are one of the easiest to design and balance since they just give back some of a character’s lost abilities and substitutes for those that just wouldn’t make sense any more. Prestige Classes and Balance This is where PrCs fall down, balance. The DMG says that taking a level in a PrC should be no more desirable than taking a level in your current class, but how many times have you actually seen that? That’s because a lot of people think PrCs should be more powerful since they are often more narrowly focused and have specific requirements. The problem is that these rarely if ever balance the class, and we have reached a point where if you don’t take a PrC you will be severely weaker than someone who does. The biggest proponent of this is what’s called a ‘full caster’ or ‘full manifester’ PrC. This term is given to PrCs that have +1 existing spellcasting or manifesting class at every level, which effectively means you won’t be any worse at casting than a pure class. Now nearly all PrCs add more onto full spellcasting progression, and this is what makes it unbalanced. The ‘bargaining chip’, or what a PrC’d class loses out on, is very small for most casters. The Wizard and Sorcerer’s familiar is only good for role-playing most of the time and a Cleric’s turn undead after about 10th level becomes rather useless too. So with so little to lose and so much to gain, can you blame people for PrCing? Of course not. But that doesn’t mean it’s OK as it is and the following is my general advice to those who run games, develop PrCs and just everyone who uses them in general. First of all work out the concept of the PrC, it should be something that couldn’t just be a feat or two. Next work out what sorts of people would be entering the class, this helps you work out prerequisites and what sorts of class abilities you’d like to continue advancing. Once you have all this outlined work out an outline of the class, with the general abilities you’d like them to get at each level. Don’t worry about mechanics just yet, get the concept down first. Once you have done this you should set the requirements, remembering to make sure that you would need to be at least level 6 to take the first level. For more details on what makes a good prerequisite and the further steps in developing a PrC, consult the DMG or DMG2. Now the above was for people making there own PrCs, which I know is a lot less common than just using a Wizards one so we’ll cover that next. Choosing a PrC for an organization could be done either way, you could see a PrC you like and make a guild/group for it or already have one and hunt for a PrC that fits the theme. Once you do just change the flavour text of the PrC, and you will be good except for the mechanics. I advise not allowing any full caster PrCs, or any that when you look at them think ‘why would I take another level of [whatever] when I could take a level in this!’. If you really like the idea of the class but it is over (or less often under) powered you’ll need to tweak it, the most common thing is for full casters change there spell progression to only every other level or two with then one without, etc. Prestige Classes and Multi-classing Since taking levels in a PrC forces a character to multi-class topic is important to all PrCs. Many PrC are also developed to combine two classes into one, meaning a character would have at least 3 classes. A lot of problems come when DMs don’t properly enforce XP-penalties, so make sure you review the section on it near the beginning of the Player’s Handbook. Many people use custom rules for multi-classing but the ones presented in the PHB do fine in most campaigns. Also, remember that since Monks, Paladins, etc. can’t multi-class freely that PrCs aimed at them should either be worth the loss of the previous abilities or should have a note saying that you can take levels of Monk after taking at least one level in the PrC. The thing is that the second most powerful PrCs are those that combine two classes. These PrCs commonly take two quite different classes and combine there best features together; effectively making a character better than if they had just stayed with one or two base classes. When you are making such a PrC, or are looking over one in a book just check and see if you feel it is better than just taking another level in one of the classes it combines. An example of this in the DMG is the Mystic Theurge that combines both full Arcane and Divine casting into one class (which for an Arcane/Divine character is certainly more attractive). Conclusion While this article only begins to touch on the whole concept and system of PrCs, it will hopefully give you further insight into there purpose and design. Of course all of this unofficial and is just what I think, so if you disagree then that’s fine (and even expected I guess). For more info on PrCs check out the DMG2 which has a large section on it, and don’t be afraid to ask for help on the boards. And remember that a good PrC needs a good idea, balanced abilities, and plenty of flavour and support in the world (often but not always in the form of a guild). Until next time, seyah!
#2 Edymnion Nov 13, 2005 16:32:54	Have you seen my article on PrC? [thread=101790]Prestige Classes, What Are They, What Were They, and What Will They Become?[/thread]
#3 pawsplay Nov 13, 2005 16:37:33	I question whether a Mystic Theurge is more powerful than a single classed character. They are obviously better at some things. However, they can not cast as high level spells, and have a lower caster level, than a pure caster of any sort. A Cleric with the right domains can combine healing with firepower at no loss of casting ability, and a high level Wizard or Sorcerer has vastly more spell options. The Bard, whom a Mystic Theurge approximately matches in raw casting ability, surpasses the MT in skill points, saving throws, and Base Attack Bonus. There are two reasons to be a Mystic Theurge. First, they can do some double duty, albeit each job weekly. Second, they have a very high number of low level spells, which is useful in a variety of ways. The reason the class exists is because otherwise a cleric/wizard is likely to be vastly underpowered. Another weakness of the MT is that you can't tack on another Prestige Class and further boost your double casting ability. The MT is about one thing and one thing only: combining the ability to cast fireball with the ability to raise dead.
#4 khelvaster Nov 13, 2005 20:41:45	Prestige Classes and Multi-classing Since taking levels in a PrC forces a character to multi-class topic is important to all PrCs. Many PrC are also developed to combine two classes into one, meaning a character would have at least 3 classes. A lot of problems come when DMs don’t properly enforce XP-penalties, so make sure you review the section on it near the beginning of the Player’s Handbook. Many people use custom rules for multi-classing but the ones presented in the PHB do fine in most campaigns. Also, remember that since Monks, Paladins, etc. can’t multi-class freely that PrCs aimed at them should either be worth the loss of the previous abilities or should have a note saying that you can take levels of Monk after taking at least one level in the PrC. And here, you are completely wrong. It is explicitly stated in the DMG that prestige classes don't count towards multiclassing penalty. Therefore, builds that incorporate 2 base classes and a prestige class in order to qualify for another prestige class (such as many fochlucan lyrist builds) do not incur multiclassing penalties as long as one of the classes is a favored class(and seeing how with humans and half-humans any class is a favored class, this is hardly ever a problem).