Putting the "+" back in "+" magical items - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Putting the "+" back in "+" magical items

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Dec 11, 2003 15:54:26 I have been trying to figure out ways to increase the value of plus magic items. I have come up with the following (this requires you to use the "Combat and Tactics "Critical Hit" system).

- The number needed to score a critical hit is reduced by 1 per plus of the weapon. Therefore, a fighter with a +1 long sword needs a 17,18,19 or 20 to score a critical hit, instead of an 18, 19, or 20.
- Add as many bonuses as your weapon when rolling for critical hit severity.
- The number needed to score a critical hit is reduced by 1 per plus of the armor (or ring or cloak, does not apply to bracers). Therefore a figher wearing +2 chainmail would require a reduce the chances of a critical hit by 2. If the attacker normally needed an 18, 19 or 20, they would now need a 20.
- Subtract as many bonuses as your armor (ring or cloak) when rolling for critical hit severity.

This really puts the value back in + magic items.

Ironfang
#2
zombiegleemax
Dec 11, 2003 19:33:38 Not bad, Ironfang. It's a litle bulky, but I like. :D

Of course, this also applies to cursed items, yes?
#3
zombiegleemax
Dec 11, 2003 19:55:20 Yup, it applies for cursed items as well, makes them even more cursed than they normally are (negative modifiers to cursed armor applies to save versus death when saving for critical hits).

Ironfang
#4
zombiegleemax
Dec 14, 2003 23:34:34 I've always considered the major use of magical weapons to be against things which can only be hurt by such; the damage/attack bonus being trivial.s

Of course, my favorite magical weapon of all time would be a dagger, cursed +3.
#5
mock26
Dec 15, 2003 17:42:42 Ironfang,

I like it, but isn't it redundant? Take for example your +1 example. You say that the fighter now needs a 17, 18, 19, or 20 to score a critical hit. Being a +1 weapon, isn't that the same as saying you need an 18, 19, 20, or 21 to score a critical hit?

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.

#6
zombiegleemax
Dec 15, 2003 19:10:02 Mock,

Actually, it isnt redundant. If you look at the PO: C&T under the critical hit section, you can only score a critical hit (under the normal rules) if the following is true;

The successfull attack roll is a natural 18, 19, or 20.
The successfull attack hits the target by 5 points or more.

For example, in order to score a hit on a creature that has an AC of 5, a 1st level fighter (with no attack modifiers) needs a natural roll of a 20 to score a critical hit. On the same token, that same 1st level fighter is incapable of scoring a critical hit on an opponent with an AC of 4 or lower. A 10th level fighter would only be able to score a critical hit on a roll of 18, 19 or 20 (according to the rules) even though he would only need a 12 to hit by 5 or more. Should that same 10th level fighter now have a +2 long sword, he can score a critical hit on a 16, 17, 18, 19 or 20 (according to this optional magical rule system).

Ironfang
#7
mock26
Dec 15, 2003 19:15:52 irongang,

You are correct! I apologize. I still play 2nd edition and I have only recently started using the critical hit section from The Player's Options, but I'm weening it into the campaign. I still only use a critical hit on a natural 20. Once we get used to the charts, then I'll change things up.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.
#8
zombiegleemax
Dec 15, 2003 19:22:08 Mock,

I only recently implemented PO: C&T (well... 2 years ago, but that is recent to my group) Critical Hits. Since all I play is 2e, I am trying to make it a sensible system that lasts. What I have found from C&T, fighters become much more fun to play. In fact, I have been able to reduce the amount of magic items in my game, and delay their entry into my campaigns because the spectacular events that players want to see now come from combat skill instead of magic. There is no greater joy than to watch a players face when his fighter smashes in the face of an enemy knight with a mace in one hand, and severs the hand of one of the enemies knights henchmen with his long sword in the other. All without magic items. :-)

Tyranus
#9
dugald_the_lexicographer
Dec 17, 2003 19:24:29 Yay for C&T. I love the additional options available for actions as spelled out in the book. It's made our combats 300% more dynamic and interesting.

But I've never seen a need to implement the Critical Hits system. That's one area where I think the "Natural 20" rule works well enough, and doesn't encumber game flow. Sure, there are probably ways to make it more realistic. But it doesn't have to be super-real to make for a good story! We get enough Critical Hits (and fumbles) as it is, and giving the DM the freedom to describe what a double-dice hit looked like is a great tool for atmosphere.

Sorry, I think I'm contributing to topic drift!
#10
mock26
Dec 17, 2003 19:29:01 Ironfang,

Do you do anything to increase the die result when rolling for a critical hit? For example, the group's fighter/locksmith (he swear's up and down to anyone and everyone that he is NOT a thief!) is specialized in dagger. For nearly everything he fights, he rolls a 1d4, which on the critical hit table results in all kinds of boring things! Any thought on how to liven this up?

Thanks.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.

#11
zombiegleemax
Dec 17, 2003 19:39:47 Dugald,

I use a modified version of C&T (the entire implimentation would be too bulky). From what I have experienced, it only slightly slows down combat (and we dont even bother with critical hits against opponents that are potentially killed by one hit. aka. A 10th level fighter with a girdle of fire giant strength wont roll for a critical strike against an 8hp orc). However, critical hits really add a dramatic touch to the more intense battles (nothing is more fun than to watch a duel and see the enemy commander double over in pain from a two-handed sword to the gut).

Mock

I primarily implimented the C&T Crit Hits system to spice up the lives of fighters (but it does spill over). However, for a thief, I might be inclined to consider the weapon size of the dagger increased in the case of a backstab depending on the thiefs level when rolling for severity (for example, at level 1-4 the dagger size is considered "small", 5-8 the dagger is considered a "medium" weapon, 9-12 it is considered "large", 13+ it is considered "huge"). Dont forget to add the magical pluses to the dice roll for the severity of the attack.

Ironfang
#12
dugald_the_lexicographer
Dec 18, 2003 11:12:21 No, I agree ironfang. I USE critical hits, I just don't use the expanded version presented in the C&T book. I've found the extra rolls and tables, and the potentially grave nature of some of the results are just slow and destabilizing. We just use the nat 20 = double dice method, and the rest of the "action" comes out as descriptive results when the DM describes the attack to the players.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Dec 11, 2003 15:54:26	I have been trying to figure out ways to increase the value of plus magic items. I have come up with the following (this requires you to use the "Combat and Tactics "Critical Hit" system). - The number needed to score a critical hit is reduced by 1 per plus of the weapon. Therefore, a fighter with a +1 long sword needs a 17,18,19 or 20 to score a critical hit, instead of an 18, 19, or 20. - Add as many bonuses as your weapon when rolling for critical hit severity. - The number needed to score a critical hit is reduced by 1 per plus of the armor (or ring or cloak, does not apply to bracers). Therefore a figher wearing +2 chainmail would require a reduce the chances of a critical hit by 2. If the attacker normally needed an 18, 19 or 20, they would now need a 20. - Subtract as many bonuses as your armor (ring or cloak) when rolling for critical hit severity. This really puts the value back in + magic items. Ironfang
#2 zombiegleemax Dec 11, 2003 19:33:38	Not bad, Ironfang. It's a litle bulky, but I like. :D Of course, this also applies to cursed items, yes?
#3 zombiegleemax Dec 11, 2003 19:55:20	Yup, it applies for cursed items as well, makes them even more cursed than they normally are (negative modifiers to cursed armor applies to save versus death when saving for critical hits). Ironfang
#4 zombiegleemax Dec 14, 2003 23:34:34	I've always considered the major use of magical weapons to be against things which can only be hurt by such; the damage/attack bonus being trivial.s Of course, my favorite magical weapon of all time would be a dagger, cursed +3.
#5 mock26 Dec 15, 2003 17:42:42	Ironfang, I like it, but isn't it redundant? Take for example your +1 example. You say that the fighter now needs a 17, 18, 19, or 20 to score a critical hit. Being a +1 weapon, isn't that the same as saying you need an 18, 19, 20, or 21 to score a critical hit? Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 15, 2003 19:10:02	Mock, Actually, it isnt redundant. If you look at the PO: C&T under the critical hit section, you can only score a critical hit (under the normal rules) if the following is true; The successfull attack roll is a natural 18, 19, or 20. The successfull attack hits the target by 5 points or more. For example, in order to score a hit on a creature that has an AC of 5, a 1st level fighter (with no attack modifiers) needs a natural roll of a 20 to score a critical hit. On the same token, that same 1st level fighter is incapable of scoring a critical hit on an opponent with an AC of 4 or lower. A 10th level fighter would only be able to score a critical hit on a roll of 18, 19 or 20 (according to the rules) even though he would only need a 12 to hit by 5 or more. Should that same 10th level fighter now have a +2 long sword, he can score a critical hit on a 16, 17, 18, 19 or 20 (according to this optional magical rule system). Ironfang
#7 mock26 Dec 15, 2003 19:15:52	irongang, You are correct! I apologize. I still play 2nd edition and I have only recently started using the critical hit section from The Player's Options, but I'm weening it into the campaign. I still only use a critical hit on a natural 20. Once we get used to the charts, then I'll change things up. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
#8 zombiegleemax Dec 15, 2003 19:22:08	Mock, I only recently implemented PO: C&T (well... 2 years ago, but that is recent to my group) Critical Hits. Since all I play is 2e, I am trying to make it a sensible system that lasts. What I have found from C&T, fighters become much more fun to play. In fact, I have been able to reduce the amount of magic items in my game, and delay their entry into my campaigns because the spectacular events that players want to see now come from combat skill instead of magic. There is no greater joy than to watch a players face when his fighter smashes in the face of an enemy knight with a mace in one hand, and severs the hand of one of the enemies knights henchmen with his long sword in the other. All without magic items. :-) Tyranus
#9 dugald_the_lexicographer Dec 17, 2003 19:24:29	Yay for C&T. I love the additional options available for actions as spelled out in the book. It's made our combats 300% more dynamic and interesting. But I've never seen a need to implement the Critical Hits system. That's one area where I think the "Natural 20" rule works well enough, and doesn't encumber game flow. Sure, there are probably ways to make it more realistic. But it doesn't have to be super-real to make for a good story! We get enough Critical Hits (and fumbles) as it is, and giving the DM the freedom to describe what a double-dice hit looked like is a great tool for atmosphere. Sorry, I think I'm contributing to topic drift!
#10 mock26 Dec 17, 2003 19:29:01	Ironfang, Do you do anything to increase the die result when rolling for a critical hit? For example, the group's fighter/locksmith (he swear's up and down to anyone and everyone that he is NOT a thief!) is specialized in dagger. For nearly everything he fights, he rolls a 1d4, which on the critical hit table results in all kinds of boring things! Any thought on how to liven this up? Thanks. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
#11 zombiegleemax Dec 17, 2003 19:39:47	Dugald, I use a modified version of C&T (the entire implimentation would be too bulky). From what I have experienced, it only slightly slows down combat (and we dont even bother with critical hits against opponents that are potentially killed by one hit. aka. A 10th level fighter with a girdle of fire giant strength wont roll for a critical strike against an 8hp orc). However, critical hits really add a dramatic touch to the more intense battles (nothing is more fun than to watch a duel and see the enemy commander double over in pain from a two-handed sword to the gut). Mock I primarily implimented the C&T Crit Hits system to spice up the lives of fighters (but it does spill over). However, for a thief, I might be inclined to consider the weapon size of the dagger increased in the case of a backstab depending on the thiefs level when rolling for severity (for example, at level 1-4 the dagger size is considered "small", 5-8 the dagger is considered a "medium" weapon, 9-12 it is considered "large", 13+ it is considered "huge"). Dont forget to add the magical pluses to the dice roll for the severity of the attack. Ironfang
#12 dugald_the_lexicographer Dec 18, 2003 11:12:21	No, I agree ironfang. I USE critical hits, I just don't use the expanded version presented in the C&T book. I've found the extra rolls and tables, and the potentially grave nature of some of the results are just slow and destabilizing. We just use the nat 20 = double dice method, and the rest of the "action" comes out as descriptive results when the DM describes the attack to the players.