Note 1: It is my belief that the following is in full compliance with the WotC Open Gaming License & Copyright Policy (I’m not even sure that the OGL applies to amateur offerings posted for free on a message board, but better safe than sorry). I am not however, a lawyer. If my belief is incorrect and this text violates the letter or spirit of the OGL, it will be altered to comply or removed from these boards outright.
Note 2: This is still very much a work in progress, if anybody spots any mistakes on my part, feel free to point ‘em out below (however, as always, try to keep it constructive)
This material is Open Game Content, and is licensed for public use under the terms of the Open Game License v1.0a.
EPIC CHARACTERS
Regardless of the method used to attain 21st level, once a character reaches that point he or she is considered an epic character.
Epic characters—those characters whose character level is 21st or higher—are handled slightly differently than nonepic characters. While they continue to gain most of the customary benefits of gaining levels, some benefits are replaced by alternative gains.
Despite the ten-level limit indicated in the base class descriptions a class can be advanced beyond 10th level by using these rules. An advanced class can also be advanced beyond 10th level, but only if the character level of the advancing character is already 20th or higher. A prestige class (which has fewer than ten levels) cannot be advanced beyond the maximum described for that class, regardless of the character level of the advancing character.
Epic Save Bonus: A character’s base save bonus does not increase after his character level reaches 20th. However, he does receive a cumulative +1 epic bonus on all saving throws every even-numbered level after 20th, as shown on Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonuses.
Epic Attack Bonus: A character’s base attack bonus does not increase after his character level reaches 20th. However, he does receive a cumulative +1 epic bonus on all attack rolls every odd-numbered level after 20th, as shown on Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonuses. Only base attack bonus is used to calculate iterative attacks. In addition, base attack bonus never grants a creature more than four attacks with any given weapon using the full attack option, though special abilities and class features may provide additional attacks.
Class Skill Max Ranks: The maximum number of skill ranks a character can have in a class skill is equal to his or her character level +3.
Cross-Class Skill Max Ranks: For cross-class skills, the maximum ranks are one-half the maximum for a class skill.
Feats: Characters continue to gain feats based on character level as normal. Note that these feats are in addition to any bonus feats granted in the class descriptions.
Ability Increases: Characters continue to gain ability score increases based on character level as normal.
Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonuses
Character Level/Epic Save Bonus/Epic Base Attack Bonus
21/+0/+1
22/+1/+1
23/+1/+2
24/+2/+2
25/+2/+3
26/+3/+3
27/+3/+4
28/+4/+4
29/+4/+5
30/+5/+5
For multiclass characters, feats and ability increases are gained according to overall character level, not class level.
EPIC CLASS FEATURES
Many, but not all, class features continue to accumulate after 20th level. The following guidelines describe how the epic class progressions work.
- Class-related base save bonuses and base attack bonus don’t increase after 10th level. Thus, these class tables have no columns for base save bonuses or base attack bonus. Instead, use Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonuses to determine the character’s epic bonus on saving throws and attacks.
- A character continues to gain Hit Dice and skill points as normal beyond 10th level.
- Generally speaking, any class feature that uses the character’s class level as part of a mathematical formula continues to increase using the character’s class level in the formula.
- Any class feature that calculates a save DC using the class level should add only half the character’s class levels above the maximum.
- For spellcasters, caster level continues to increase after maximum level. However, a character’s spells per day don’t increase after the maximum level.
- The powers of familiars, special mounts, and fiendish servants continue to increase as their masters gain levels, if they’re based on a formula that includes the caster’s level.
- Any class features that increase or accumulate as part of a repeated pattern also continue to increase or accumulate after 20th level at the same rate. An exception to this rule is any bonus feat progression granted as a class feature. If a character gets bonus feats as part of a class feature these do not increase with epic levels. Instead, these classes get a new bonus feat progression.
- In addition to the class features retained from lower levels, each class gains a bonus feat every two, three, four, or five levels after 10th. This benefit augments each class’s progression of class features, because not all classes otherwise improve class features after 20th level. These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that every character gets from level advancement.
- A character doesn’t gain any new class features beyond 10th level. Class features with a progression that slows or stops before 10th level and features that have a limited list of options do not improve as a character attains epic level. Likewise, class features that are gained only at a single level do not improve.
Adding a Second Class
When an epic character with levels in only one class attains a new level, she may choose to increase the level of her current class or pick up a new class at 1st level. The standard rules for multiclassing still apply, but epic characters must keep in mind the rules for epic advancement.
An epic character gains the class skills, weapon proficiency, armor proficiency, spells, and other class features of the new class, as well as a Hit Die of the appropriate size. In addition, the character gets the usual skill points from the new class.
An epic character does not gain the base attack bonuses and base save bonuses normally gained when adding a second class. Instead, the character uses the epic attack bonus and epic save bonus progression shown on Table: Epic Save and Epic Attack Bonus.
MONSTERS AS EPIC CHARACTERS
These epic rules work for monsters with character levels, using the creature’s effective character level (ECL) instead of just its class levels.
EPIC FEATS
The following feats are available only to epic characters. Whenever an epic character gains a new feat, it can be from among the standard list of feats or one of the feats described below. Some of the following Feats have prerequisites that are contained in the portion of the D20 Modern Core Rulebook that is designated as Product Identity; however, no material identified as product identity has been reprinted.
Familiar Spell (Epic)
Prerequisite: Int 25
Benefit: Choose one spell you know of 4th level or lower. Your familiar can now cast this spell once per day as a spell-like ability as a caster of a level equal to your caster level. You cannot bestow a spell upon your familiar if the spell normally has a material component cost of more than a +1 Wealth Check, or any XP cost.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, you can give your familiar a new spell-like ability, or another daily use of the same spell-like ability.
Great Smiting (Epic)
Prerequisites: Cha 25, smite ability (from class feature).
Benefit: Whenever you make a successful smite attack, add twice the appropriate level to damage.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. (Remember that two doublings equals a tripling, and so forth.)
Improved Target Bonus (Epic)
Prerequisites: Target Bonus +3 (from class feature).
Benefit: Add +1 to the bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks and damage rolls against your designated target.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
Improved Metamagic (Epic)
Prerequisites: Four metamagic feats, Spellcraft 30 ranks.
Benefit: The spell slot you must use to cast a metamagic spell is one level lower than normal (to a minimum of one level higher than normal).
This feat has no effect on a metamagic feat that requires a spell slot one level higher than normal or does not require a higher level slot.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. The effects stack, though you can’t lower the level of any metamagic spell’s slot to less than one level higher than normal.
Improved Spell Capacity (Epic)
Prerequisite: Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class.
Benefit: When you select this feat, you gain one spell slot per day of any level up to one level higher than the highest level spell you can already cast in a particular class. The character must have the requisite ability score (10 + spell level) in order to cast a spell stored in such a slot. If the character has a high enough ability modifier to gain one or more bonus spells for this spell level, she also gains those bonus spells for this spell level.
This feat can’t grant spellcasting ability to a class that doesn’t have spellcasting ability. A character must use the spell slot in a class of which she can already cast the maximum normal spell level.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.
Improved Stunning Fist (Epic)
Prerequisite: Dex 19, Wis 19, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist.
Benefit: Add +2 to the DC of your stunning attack.
This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
Overwhelming Critical (Epic)
Choose one type of melee weapon. With that weapon, you do more damage on a critical hit.
Prerequisites: Str 23, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (weapon to be chosen), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (weapon to be chosen).
Benefit: When using the weapon you have selected, you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is x3, add an extra 2d6 points of damage instead, and if the multiplier is 4, add an extra 3d6 points of damage instead. (Creatures immune to critical hits can’t be affected by this feat.)
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
Outsider Turning (Epic)
Prerequisites: Wis 25, Cha 25, ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Benefit: You can turn or rebuke outsiders as if they were undead. An outsider has effective turn resistance equal to half its spell resistance (round down).
If you can turn undead, you turn (or destroy) all evil outsiders and rebuke (or command) all nonevil outsiders. If you can rebuke undead, you rebuke (or command) all evil outsiders and rebuke
(or command) all nonevil outsiders.
Spell Knowledge (Epic)
Prerequisites: Ability to cast spells of the maximum normal spell level of an arcane spellcasting class.
Benefit: You learn two new arcane spells of any level up to the maximum level you can cast. This feat does not grant any additional spell slots.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.
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This material is being released using the Open Gaming License Version 1.0a and you should read and understand the terms of that license before using this material.
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OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a
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END OF LICENSE
Where's the Selector Switch?
Your trigger finger moves faster than others think possible.
Pre-Reqs: Character level 21+, Dex 25+, Personal Firearms Proficiency, Double-Tap, Burst Fire, Advanced Firearms Proficiency
Benefits: You may make autofire or burst-fire attacks with a semi-automatic weapon, provided the weapon has enough remaining ammunition. Your bursts use three shots.
Normal: You may only make autofire or burst-fire attacks with weapons that have an autofire setting, and bursts require five shots.
I'm also (slowly) working on Epic Progressions for the various classes (although I think that the bit about the 6 Core classes advancing might have to go as there comes a point where a character is going to run out of Talents to take).
I'll definitely be using these when my PC's get to that level...
Epic Defence Bonus. Along the lines of the Attack and Save ones, just a little slower in its progress, every three or four levels perhaps. This serves the same purpose as standardising the Attack and Save bonuses, ensuring someone who took all Smart and Charismatic Classes isn't left in the dust, and keeping Fast Heroes and other from getting ridiculous numbers.
Epic Reputation. A Feat, like the one in the Epic Level Handbook could be cool, but, again, setting up a staggered progression, ala Attack and Save seems ideal, with the Feat adding something along the lines of the one in the Handbook, as an additonal option.
Leave Basic Classes at 10 levels. They are entry level, and should be treated as such. The option doesn't exist in the 20-level game as it stands, and I actually think that makes sense. Perhaps allowing someone who has maxed their prefered basic class to pick up additional Talents from that Class with their bonus Feats may be the best way to handle someone who needs or wants to finish out all the Talent Trees.
As Advanced Classes are closer to Prestige Classes, they should be able to advance to higher levels, if you desire. As long as the "Behind the Curtain" notes in the Epic Level Handbook are followed, it shouldn't be a problem. One thing to keep in mind is "how does one get to this level". A Mage who has reached 10th Level should really be looking at "ArchMage", while a Soldier hitting 10th will be a killing machine, and what wars is he fighting in? I think, given the emphasis already there, that multi-classing should be encouraged, even at Epic Levels, as it suits the game. The Soldier may want to branch out to Special Ops [Cross-Training is encouraged in the military], the Investigator may work on Field Science to be a better Investigator, etc.
Enhanced Talents as Feats. This follows the cap on Basic Classes of 10. Make "Epic Dedication" that enhances some or all of the Dedicated Basic Class' Talents [a boost to Wisdom DCs or checks perhaps?], "Epic Strength" for the Strong Hero and its subsets, etc. Make the requirements appropriately, like an high Ability score in the Ability in question, and 2 or 3 entry level Talents from the Basic Class. Keep in mind d20 Modern characters have less chance to get very high Ability scores, so a 20 or so should be the requirement.
Perhaps 3 or more Epic Classes [5 to 7 would be ideal, given not everyone will want one, but that each Ability should be represented], available only after level 20. Examples might include "Living Weapon" [Take a look at the Duneons and Dragons Monk, with Strong, Fast and Martial Artist elements as prerequisites], "Bastion of Hope" [Dedicated and Tough with Acolyte requisites, making it a powerful clerical class, or giving it the "Inspire" ability, and switching Tough or Dedicated for Charismatic], "Puppeteer" [Smart and Charismatic, with elements of the MasterMind as requsistes, making for a master manipulator, perhaps even offering this as a Psionic Epic Class, ala the the Telepath], and others will present themselves. Even converting the Epic Classes given should offer some ideas.
I am actually not playing d20 Modern yet, but I have given this some thought, as well. I am not familiar enough with the individual Talent tress, so this is all general and I have no stated Feats to offer. If I come up with anything, I will post it for your perusal.
Thanks for posting.
Anyway, this may get long, but let me break out my 3.0 ELHB. For epic feats, there is a glut of inspiration present already, so I'm just going to throw out general suggestions instead of specifics. I see little reason not to allow almost all of the existing epic feats that don't directly relate to a D&D-exlusive class ability. Feats like Blinding Speed, Dextrous Fortitude/Will, Epic Dodge (although that might need the prereq to change from Improved Evasion to Evasion), and the Epic and Great titled feats would all work.
Some new considerations I would throw in would be to use archery-based feats as a foundation to build firearms-based feats. Also, Modern class abilities could easily be expanded upon much the same way the D&D class abilities are. Many Talent progressions are very linear, such as all of the Strong Hero's trees, or the Fast Hero's speed tree. These would be candidates for epic feat continuation, or even epic class progression.
Here's one I should have thought of earlier. Throw in an epic feat that allows characters to activate a Talent or class ability that normally requires an Action Point without spending one. The feat would require the player to select only one ability, but it could be taken multiple times. Could work on a times-per-day basis, or just be an "always-on" situation (it is epic, afterall).
Anyway, Modern feats that could be expanded upon to interesting ends. Just to throw out a brief list: Brawl (and associated tree, such as an epic Knockout Punch), Combat Martial Arts (working off of existing epic feats such as Improved Ki Strike, Keen Strike, and Shattering Strike), Defensive Martial Arts (working with Epic Dodge and even normal D&D feats such as Deflect Arrows), Far Shot, Frightful Presence, Heroic Surge (Blinding Speed, perhaps?), Personal Firearms Proficiency (and related; a feat similar to Monkey Grip would be nice, to carry and use heavy weapons), Renown (and Low Profile), Vehicle Expert (epic feats could allow faster changes of speed categories, or various other changes to how stunts are performed that would generally defy laws of physhics - there's a great Jackie Chan movie that demonstrates this), and even Windfall.
I'd like to see a Modern version of Leadership, also, to allow for running companies or other organizations. Maybe I should just stick that one to the suggestions thread, though...
Epic skill use! Most can just carry over from D&D, of course, but Modern has a few new ones that need addressing. Computer Use is first on the list. That one should pretty much be time-taken aspects, but it could include things for creating makeshift programs on the fly and allow for some multi-tasking. Epic DCs would be good for the new Craft skills. Not sure about epic Demolitions, but surely some higher DCs could be given for speed and minimal use of explosives. For comedy's sake, I would like to see Drive DCs for using abnormal limbs, such as feet or teeth. Epic Investigate could use a few new DCs to accomodate the Sherlock Holmeses out there ("this man's shoe is scuffed, therefore it was the midwife!"). Epic Navigate could include nonstandard travel (underwater, space, etc.). Epic Pilot goes likewise with Drive, since most things would be covered under available stunts. Epic Repair would be fun, similar to Epic Disable Device (nothing says the Fonz like Repair checks as a free action). Research would be a time-taken thing, I suppose. That pretty much covers that, though.
Otherwise, I can't really think off the top of my head of what would be considered Epic-level play in the modern world that would need special rules. Well, I took entirely too long posting all that, so I'll just stop now. Good luck with your work, and I'm really interested with what you come up with, because I know I'll need it soon, too! Those players never seem to slow down, do they?
The one area I am still working on is "Reputation".
I haven't decided if one should have more of a reputation or if one should have more action points. Name recognition versus more "luck" perse....
It is a work in progress...
Again, nice work.
Epic Defense
Instead of the class based Defense progressions, Defense is handled much like Saves and Attacks, though the progression is a bit shallower, being once every three levels, rather than once every other level.
21 - +0
22 - +0
23 - +1
24 - +1
25 - +1
26 - +2
27 - +2
28 - +2
29 - +3
30 - +3
Epic Reputation
The epic modern character, unless modified with feats, are some of the most famous, or infamous, people on the planet. Like Attacks, Saves, and Defense, Reputation improves at a set rate beyond 20th level, once every three levels.
21 - +1
22 - +1
23 - +1
24 - +2
25 - +2
26 - +2
27 - +3
28 - +3
29 - +3
30 - +4
Epic Katana of Badass: This +7 katana, besides its enchantment bonus, also threathen a critical hit on a natural roll of 18, 19 or 20, deals chaotic and evil damage, grants a Acid, Cold, Fire and Electricity resistance of 10 to its wielder, a Spell Resistance of 25 and Bestows 3 negative level on a successful hit. The Epic Katana of Badass has a hardness of 20 and 35 hit points.
Type: Weapon (magic); Caster Level: 21th; Purchase DC: 50; Weight: 6 lb.
$200 - katana
+$6,500 - base price
+$3,839,900 - +7 enchantment bonus
+$1,461,600 - continual keen edge spell
+$3,000,000 - bestows 3 negative level
+$24,000 - Chaotic damage
+$30,000 - Evil damage
+$191,000 - hardness +10
+$75,000 - hit points +20
+$85,000 - acid resistance 10
+$85,000 - cold resistance 10
+$85,000 - fire resistance 10
+$85,000 - electricity resistance 10
+$2,265,000 - spell resistance 25
---------
Total $10,777,200 or Purchase DC 50!
This is necessitated by the differences in progression for various saves getting rather exaggerated at high levels
After gaming some more with my Epic-Level Modern Group, I think my extending-the-base-classes-beyong-level-10 idea is a BAD one for most regular gaming (it might work if you're going for a really high-powered game, but the over-abundance of talents becomes a bit unbalancing in regular play).
I'll post more when I have more time.
BTW, I'd like to express my appreaciation to you folks for keeping this idea/thread alive for so long (it's approaching record status for longevity).
Originally posted by lord zog
If a particular class is good at a certain type of save, why shoudl they suddenly be less better than another class at a comparable level?
The ratio does not change with epic levels. Remember, this is all added to a roll of d20.
Consider two theoretical level 100 character, and let's just take Fortitude as an example. One character has taken all classes with good Fort saves, the other classes with all bad fort saves.
If they continued to progress in a standard manner, the character with the good fort save suddenly has a +60 BASE save. Meanwhile, the poor character with a bad fort save has a +30 base save. That may seem pretty danged high, but let's put it in context.
Let's say they are both exposed to Dr. Nefarious's Super Death Ray. It's an instant death effect with a fortitude save of DC 60. Entirely reasonable a DC at this level.
Barring outside factors, the character with the good save has a 100% chance of surviving it. It is completely non-threatening to him, and there is no real reason for him to even roll.
Meanwhile, the character with a good save has NO CHANCE of surviving it. None. Zero. Zipparoonie. Instant kill, do not pass go, do not collect $200
Now, let's standardize progression. This lowers the tough hero's base save to 52 and the wimpy hero's base save is boosted up to 46. That might seem dangerously close, but let's put them against the super death ray again.
Now the tough hero has a 60% chance of passing still. It's now within the realm of danger for him, although his odds are good. The weak hero now has a 30% chance of passing. Not very good odds, but at least he's got a shot. This fits with the standard d20 paradigm that a reasonable challenge for your level should be difficult, but possible for the weakest party member to pass, and easy, but still with a hint of danger, for the strongest party member to pass.
In short, the d20 system was built around, well, a d20. Therefore, past 20 levels, the progression starts to break down unless something changes and the disparity between the classes becomes insurmountable. It merely gets worse the higher you go. Epic levels are meant to allow you to progress to the infinite, so SOMETHING has to give in order to make it fair for everyone. Hence the new epic rules.
How did I do explaining it?
cause there's some good epic-level critters in there. Can we all say "Advanced Nuclear Toxyderm?"
Well, on taht note, here is teh beginning of my Epic Modern skills:
Balance: same as ELH
Bluff: same as ELH
Climb: same as ELH
Computer Use:
Find Files: By increasing the DC by 10, the time required goes down by 1 step (from 10 minutes to 1 minute, from 1 minute to 2 rounds, or from 2 rounds to 1 rounds). This cannot decrease the time to less then 1 round.
Defeat Computer Security: There are no Epic uses of this skill use.
Defend Security: There are no Epic uses of this skill use.
Degrade Programming: By increasing the DC by 10, the time required is 1/10th of normal (from 10 minutes to 1 minute, from 1 minute to 1 round). This cannot decrease the time to less then 1 round. This also increases the DC to fix the degraded program.
Write Program: By increasing the DC by 20, the bonus granted by the program increases by 2. So a DC 40 program would grant a +4 bonus, a DC 60 program a +6 bonus, etc.
Operate Remote Device: There are no Epic uses of this skill use.
Concentration: same as ELH
Craft (Chemical):
Acids and Bases: There are no Epic uses of this skill use.
Explosives: By increasing the DC by 5, and increasing the Purchace DC by 5, and the time by 24 hours, the explosive's damage increases by 2d6, and the blast radius increases by 5 feet.
Poisonous Substances: There are no Epic uses of this skill use.
Craft (Electronic): There are no Epic uses of this skill.
Craft (Mechanical): There are no Epic uses of this skill.
Craft (Pharmaceutical): There are no Epic uses of this skill.
Craft (Structural): There are no Epic uses of this skill.
Craft (Vicual Arts): There are no Epic uses of this skill.
Craft (Writing): There are no Epic uses of this skill.
Originally posted by LTNuk3m
Sith, do you have UA?
cause there's some good epic-level critters in there. Can we all say "Advanced Nuclear Toxyderm?"
Yes, Yes I do (Bought it the day it came out, AAMOF).
I'm currently working on the Red Dragon Archnemesis of Wynn for a campaign where all the PCs are Knights of the Silver Dragon (I'm using quite a bit from the Modern Players Companion in the game... working on extending the Adept Advanced Class right now).
Originally posted by strange_person
About Wynn… If he's been in the modern world for over fifteen hundred years, and was presumably in Shadow for some time before that, how come his age category (Very Old) is listed with a maximum age of just over half that much (601-800 yrs)?
I *THINK*(this isn't an official answer, I have no connection to R&D) it's because Wynn lapses into a kind of sleep/coma/suspended animation every time the level of magic dips below a certain critical threashold level....
I'd imagine it goes something like this...
- Wynn loses the ability to maintain his draconic form (getting him "Stuck" as a human).
- He begins to lose the ability to use his spells/magic powers/whatnot.
- He begins "Sleeping" for longer and longer periods.
- He goes into suspended animation.
- He "wakes up" in human form, unable to use most of his magic spells/powers/whatnot.
- He regains the ability to change his shape into his Draconic Form.
- Evil beings begin to wet themselves.
Oh man, that was awesome. Could not stop laughing.
Oh, and btw - I think the mighty Wizo is correct - at least, it sounds extremely plausible.
Peterson
Has anyone taken the time to tie these different ideas into a single document? That might help in getting it distributed, and thus, noticed and commented upon further.
Although I own the ELH, I haven't examined it at length, figuring I'll cross that bridge when I actually DM a party level of that level. And while I think I agree with posters who feel there isn't a great need for Epic Modern characters, I do so for different reasons. When characters get to that level, they are so powerful that things that challenged them at low levels no longer challenge them at all. Traditional threats which in a standard Modern game should at least give heroes pause become nuisances or mere distractions. Is that the direction a GM and his or her players want to go? If so, then go ahead and develop Epic rules, but as another poster indicated, you might be better served with one of the many excellent d20 superhero offerings out there.
You can't get more than four attacks per round (well, four basic attacks per round; you can still get more from two-weapon fighting and whatnot).
You can't get more levels in a class than there exist rules for. (10 levels for most classes.)
If the group rules that your character isn't pulling his weight in combat, you must get combat classes until you are. If the group rules that your character isn't pulling his weight out of combat, or if he's too maxed out in combat, you must get non-combat classes for a while. This should be used sparingly.
These rules assume that players will generally get a mix of classes with different ability focuses, rather than get a bunch of classes with the same powers (Strong Hero/Soldier/Martial Artist/Archaic Weaponmaster characters will be too specialized, for example.)
This only works if players don't go crazy with getting too many levels in one area, but other than that, it probably would work decently.
Continuing normal progressions in D&D is a bad idea because that game isn't designed for heavy multi-classing, but in D20 Modern, the classes are all more similar and more compatible, and the gaps between each are less severe.
Also, while D20 Modern is based on multi-classing, ELH actually heavily penalizes anyone who multi-classes. Try getting fighter levels with a mage 20 and see what I mean; you don't get any benefit beyond bonus feats and proficiencies. Even if you were a mage 20 / fighter 380, you'd only have two attacks per round and your BAB+epic bonus would be no better than that of a mage 400.
Anyway, while I don't think my idea is entirely balanced, neither is ELH; I think both are about equally unbalanced.
Like the D&D Epic Level Handbook, you'd have to make the progression pretty much the same for everyone insofar as BAB and saves. Make the differentiation in who gets bonus feats at what levels. Then make sure those feats are logical extensions of non-epic feats or talent trees.
Yes, I think that would do nicely.
How well do they work in action now that you have?
I think if my campaign gets to that point I will just have a rule that says you can't progress beyond level 20 unless you have achieved level 3 in at least at least two classes that aren't your primary class. Primary class is defined as the class in which the character has the highest class level. One of said two classes must be a physical class, and the other a mental class.
This ensures that multiclassing happens and that nobody focuses too extensively on one thing. The normal D&D rules reward specialization and punish multiclassing. I think the spirit of D20 Modern is to reward multiclassing.
As far as forced multiclassing goes, just say you need training to continue to improve in any particular category (combat, stealth, diplomacy) and there's no one available who's good enough to train you beyond that point. Some might object to a seeming loss of charachter focus, but consider:
If you focus on diplomacy, eventually the negotiations will go bad and you'll need to defend yourself.
If you focus on stealth, there's nothing like a quick Bluff to get you a chance to hide.
If you focus on combat, you know that the first strike is often the last, and the best way to get that first strike is to stay quiet and keep to the shadows.
For example, in a campaign I am running, which is currently level 6, there is a Strong Hero 3/ Soldier 3, with 9 ranks in Hide and Move silently, due to the Criminal starting occupation.
What I think:
There should be an Epic Hero class, for continuing the basic classes, and epic progressions for the advanced and prestige classes.
This means that the Mages, Techno Mages, and Acolytes will actually be able to cast spells over level 5.
Originally posted by Nerdvana
Has anyone been playing with these rules?
How well do they work in action now that you have?
*bump*
I'm still curious if there's anyone with any feedback from active game use of these rules?
Originally posted by Nerdvana
*bump*
I'm still curious if there's anyone with any feedback from active game use of these rules?
They've worked well in my regular face-to-face Urban Arcana game. The trickiest bit so far has been adapting Feats from the ELH to D20 Modern.
Anduin
Anyway, this looks pretty cool, as much as the Wiz0 stamp and the bump through me off.
try this one on for size;) how about a matrix-like setting where the players jack into the matrix as epic heroes!they will gain +20 lvls.and be treated as an outsider in the matrix(subject to banishment,or imprisionment).
this is only one of the possible methods to run an epic campaign side-by-side with a "regular" campaign.....
your gonna be doin' alot of paperwork anyway,so why not?talk about a plot twist!
*scrip remembers the first time he went and saw matrix1*
there must already be threads about d20 modern+matrix!
*BUMP?!!*
The rules I'm hinging on right now allow a player to fungle around in no more than three of the core classes (Fast, Dedicated...), no more than three AdCs (in my setting that mostly means magic-users) and no more than two PrCs. This doesn't necessarily cap characters at 70th level (I seriously hope I never get their characters to that level, mind you), as I'm being a bit more flexible with PrC levels than the core ruleset, but it does leave me plenty of time to work on an "Epic Hero class" if someone does want to play it all the way out.
My biggest problem, by the by, is trying to figure out just what you throw at epic-level magic-users. I mean, dragons are ubiquitous and all that...but even so you've only got a few chances to throw dragons at players before they're bored by them.
What I would LOVE (and may have to write myself) is an Epic-level Menace Manual (heck, I'd take one for D&D, even). I mean...it's great there is ELC rules out there...but uh...they're kinda useless without foes for said epic heroes. :/
Anduin
Originally posted by Anduin Starfire
There's bound to be independent Epic-Level products out there soon, Ardent. It's been in the SRD for over a month now.
Anduin
My fingers remain crossed. That kind of work (specifically developing creatures/monsters/foes for epic-level heroes to battle) is tricky. It's part of why epic DnD always turns into "Once Around the Planes" or "To Kill a Deity." I struggled to adapt Faerun to 25-30th level characters. I almost went as far as to throw them on a boat to Maztica and just throw wyverns, drakes and dragons at them... :/
Originally posted by Johannixx
What about some epic firearms-related feats? In the spirit of epicness (read: beyond the ken of us mere mortals), I give you this:
Where's the Selector Switch?
Your trigger finger moves faster than others think possible.
Pre-Reqs: Character level 21+, Dex 25+, Personal Firearms Proficiency, Double-Tap, Burst Fire, Advanced Firearms Proficiency
Benefits: You may make autofire or burst-fire attacks with a semi-automatic weapon, provided the weapon has enough remaining ammunition. Your bursts use three shots.
Normal: You may only make autofire or burst-fire attacks with weapons that have an autofire setting, and bursts require five shots.
Hey Johannix,
This feat you describe is very similiar to the one in UltraModern Firearms called Hail of Bullets. Just wanted you to be aware.
Since Epic characters ALL have the same BAB and Saves I can only see two classes being played at Epic levels SMART (for skill points) and TOUGH (for hit points). Everyone else is in trouble. The main advantage of the strong hero (his base attack) is now pointless.
If you wanted to make a d20 Modern epic I'd consider creating an EPIC class. All characters beyond 20th level must take the Epic class. Eg: Strong 10/Soldier 10/Epic 3
EPIC CLASS
Bab: Epic attack progression.
Saves: Epic saves.
Skills: 5 + int modifier - an epic character selects a number of skills equal to 5 + his int modifier, those skills are counted as class skills for all epic levels.
Feats: Starting at first level and every three levels thereafter (1st, 4th, 7th, 10th) the character gains a bonus EPIC feat. These replace the feats characters normally get every third level.
Talents: Starting at second level and every three levels after (2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th) the character gains an EPIC talent. An Epic Talent can be any standard talent or it can be chosen from the list below.
Class Abilities: Starting at third level and every level thereafter (3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th) the character gains epic class abilities. Epic class abilities can be taken from any of the advanced or prestige classes in the book - however a class ability can only be taken if and only if all the preceding class abilities were taken. A fast 10/smart 10 hero could for instance take class abilities from the Field Scientist class even if he has no levels in the class. He can take Smart Defense as a class ability when he first is allowed one but not Scientific Improvisation (until he had taken Smart Defense).
EPIC TALENTS
Here is a sample of Epic Talents
Skilled: +1 skill point per level for each level of EPIC HERO taken.
Talented: Bonus feat.
Massive Smash: increase Melee Smash damage by +1. (requires melee smash)
Damage Reduction +1: increase your damage reduction by +1. (requires damage reduction)
Epic Smarts: Your Epic Hero levels count as Smart Hero levels for the purpose of the Savant talent (requires savant talent).
Totally Cool: Your hero can take a 10 on any skill even when under pressure (requires cool under pressure).
Epic Charm: Your Epic levels count as Charismatic levels for the purpose of Charismatic talents.
~
By making the system more uniform we solve the problem of certain classes being damaged by Epic attack and save progression and create a really neat system at the same time.
I just whipped this together just now - its obviously unpolished but I think you'll find that the system is quite clever.
oh, and
Thus far, it means adding other games entirely. It also means using the Action Points for things that are more permanent.
Saving throws would do the same thing.
Hmmm, maybe this should be sticky...
More prestige classes could fill in for those whho want specific character taits.
also there is nothing saying one can't multiclass, after you have exhausted one class move on to another.
just my thoughts
Originally posted by Pagan priest
Hmmm, maybe this should be sticky...
That's not a bad idea, I second the motion, make this thread sticky Wizos! :D
GO GO WIZ_OS!
Stickys are only for important boards-related stuff.
I *WILL* however ask the boss if I can move it to Redgar's Repository.
One idea is to simply allow characters to continue gaining levels beyond 20, but no more than 10 in any single class.
This forces characters to multiclass and expand their repertoire of skills.
If you really want to force diversity, you could enforce a rule like this:
-You cannot have more levels in advanced or prestige classes than you have levels in basic classes. This forces people to keep on advancing at least half the time in basic classes.
Since there are 60 levels of base classes, then you could have a level 120 character.
If you have playes from level 1 to 120, maybe it's time to start a new campaign...
Originally posted by Kharanax
One idea is to simply allow characters to continue gaining levels beyond 20, but no more than 10 in any single class.
This forces characters to multiclass and expand their repertoire of skills.
If you really want to force diversity, you could enforce a rule like this:
-You cannot have more levels in advanced or prestige classes than you have levels in basic classes. This forces people to keep on advancing at least half the time in basic classes.
I'd call that an increadibly bad idea. You're saying that if I am running a field scientist, he needs to go out and learn to be a great martial artist, and then become a rock star.
No DM any where or for any reason should force a character to multiclass.
PLEASE!!! :D
I like the whole idea Please do us the favor and keep updating what you have done...
Thanks in advance for all the hard work you do..
oh yes and
To continue a specific character type you need to either become more specialized or expand into similar areas.
Yes that's my entire post.. I just had to say it.
For example about your Field Scientist, he can benefit from taking levels in Charismatic, Smart and Dedicated classes.
The Charismatic Hero class can help the field scientist talk his way past some guards so he can reach the secret labs he should not have access to. He can also use the Leadership Talent tree and better coordinate his research team to get a lot more work done.
The benefits of the Smart Hero class are obvious enough for a Field Scientist.
The Dedicated Hero class has Skill Emphasis and Faith, which can easily be used to further increase relevant skill checks.
Even the Tough hero class can have benefits: Planning to explore hidden alien ruins in Antartica? Cold Resistance can certainly help.
As for some hero classes not granting the relevant skills as class skills, you can likely select the desired skills from the Academic background and have them as class skills for all your classes.
There are many many ways to make this work. The Advanced classes in d20 Modern don't always have linear benefits, and multiclassing, I find, gives a bit more depth to the character.
Feel free to disregard anything I said, of course. You run your game the way you want it.
Originally posted by Kharanax
For example about your Field Scientist, he can benefit from taking levels in Charismatic, Smart and Dedicated classes.
The Charismatic Hero class can help the field scientist talk his way past some guards so he can reach the secret labs he should not have access to. He can also use the Leadership Talent tree and better coordinate his research team to get a lot more work done.
The benefits of the Smart Hero class are obvious enough for a Field Scientist.
The Dedicated Hero class has Skill Emphasis and Faith, which can easily be used to further increase relevant skill checks.
Even the Tough hero class can have benefits: Planning to explore hidden alien ruins in Antartica? Cold Resistance can certainly help.
This is off-topic from Pagan Priest's point. Which is that a GM shouldn't force a player to multiclass their character unless they want to. If a player said they wanted to keep playing their Field Scientist past 10th, I'd just say "Okay, you get the standard progression for existing abilities and nothing else." That's not the best deal, but it doesn't completely disallow continuining in a class.
As for some hero classes not granting the relevant skills as class skills, you can likely select the desired skills from the Academic background and have them as class skills for all your classes.
At Epic levels, you've long since chosen your background and chances are its usefulness has long since expired in terms of what class skills it grants you (assuming a fairly typical Urban Arcana, Agents of Psi or Shadow Slayers type campaign).
There are many many ways to make this work. The Advanced classes in d20 Modern don't always have linear benefits, and multiclassing, I find, gives a bit more depth to the character.
d20M is designed for multiclassing in a way no other d20 system was, but it doesn't mean players should be forced into it. If someone wanted to play twenty levels of Smart hero I'd question it, since there's only so many Talents to be had, but then when you think about, he's got a ton of feats compared to someone split 10/10 with an AdC.
( gives wizo his props for this )oh and bump
Originally posted by steven
Hey wizo have you updated your origanal post lately it seams to me that you have been playing with the (high Rollers) long enough to have a few more things ironed out for your game why not update us as to what you have done.
PLEASE!!! :D
I like the whole idea Please do us the favor and keep updating what you have done...
Thanks in advance for all the hard work you do..
oh yes and
Actually, the game self-destructed back in late april and after being away from the group for most of the summer (a family situation that made putting gaming on the back burner a necessity), I realized that my group and I have grown apart in terms of the kinds of gaming we want to do. So I haven't really put much work into things of late.
Yes, in many games a Field Scientist would benefit greatly by having other classes to round him out. But what about the Martial Artist, narrowly focused on perfecting her art? Or the Gunslinger, obsessed with being the fastest, meanest gun in the west? Requiring multiclassing is just bad, and represents a DM intrusion into the character concept held by the player.
~~~***~~~***~~~***~~~
Originally posted by WizO_Sith
I realized that my group and I have grown apart in terms of the kinds of gaming we want to do.
That is always sad. Happened to me a while back, and now some of the folk seem to think that I am not interested in being friends any more.
Originally posted by WizO_Sith
Actually, the game self-destructed back in late april and after being away from the group for most of the summer (a family situation that made putting gaming on the back burner a necessity), I realized that my group and I have grown apart in terms of the kinds of gaming we want to do. So I haven't really put much work into things of late.
oh man I am sorry to here that but every gaming group goes through it from time to time I know my group has undergone changes over the years ,but i am lucky that i have a good group now that has been together every saturday at my house for 6 years granted we have a couple newbies join and quit from time to time but we core 6 players have grown tight over the years some of use married and had kids but we are still here..
I guess that makes me one of the lucky few huh...
In the Gun Slinger's case make a Trick Shot or a Show Gun (sorry couldn't resist) prestige class, that would specialize in improving skip shots and no look shots.
The martial artist has a Sensei prestige class in one of the 3rd party books, I believe.
That, or have those character's set up an agency, get the players to make new characters, and have them employed by the previous characters. Once those characters reach 21st level, they become the new bosses as the old ones retire to expensive country clubs, or go on to high-level government jobs- in which case, the original characters keep moving up the chain of command.
oh man I am sorry to here that but every gaming group goes through it from time to time I know my group has undergone changes over the years ,but i am lucky that i have a good group now that has been together every saturday at my house for 6 years granted we have a couple newbies join and quit from time to time but we core 6 players have grown tight over the years some of use married and had kids but we are still here..
I guess that makes me one of the lucky few huh...
I could only be so lucky. My group has married off, had kids, got jobs with conflicting hours, and several of us have relocated since high school. You are one of the lucky few. I'm envious.
Then, scroll down to around page 150, and it should be there. It's about 20 pages long :D
EDIT: One should note that Naruto: d20 Epics does not include epic spellcasting rules, feats or skills.
POST-EDIT: It will be published in a following issue of Modernized as a 35-page article, including prestige classes progressions, over 80 feats and the standard skill uses.
Jedi Steve-OThen, scroll down to around page 150, and it should be there. It's about 20 pages long
Just as an aid to folks downloading this, it's actually on page 190. Heh, took me a little while to find it... you folks should add a table of contents. And although it's more or less obvious, make it clear that this supplement is more of a Modern Campaign Setting than it's own game; the rules don't make it clear what game you're using as the base rule set.
The fact that Naruto: d20 is a d20 Modern supplement is very obvious from the beginning, and it's shown on the website. As for a table of content, I'd think a bookmark saying "Naruto: d20 Epics" would be sufficient.
Ah, well... what can you do.
My vote is for following the EPIC tables for BAB, Saves, and new ones created for Defense and Reputation. Include some EPIC skill use and feats, add you're set. Other than that, don't extend the levels beyond their usual 10 level limit. Once you max out a class, take levels in another.
I can understand how some character might really want to Uber-Specialize, but this method has the least ammount of head-aches. Anyways, a character that is 5 Tough, 5 Strong, 10 Soldier, is really deadly. If you're in UA, take levels in Swashbuckler or Archiac Weaponmaster. If you're in FUTURE (or Apocalypse), take leves of Helix Warrior or Dreadnaught. Sticking to core? Take levels in Martial Artist or Gunslinger.
There are plenty of class available, so I'd just multi-class away. Then again, almost every d20 MODERN character I buid has at least 3-4 classes, a concept that baffles my D&D buddies. In fact a had a build I finished just the other day that was 3 Fast, 3 Tough, 4 Gunslinger, 5 Nuclear Nomad, 5 Helix Warrior. That's a pretty killer combination if worked the right way. What would I take at level 21? Probably levels in the Smart or Dedicated basic classes, just to compensate in the areas where I'm lacking (not Charismatic, as this character had an Cha. score of 9).
But that could just be me. Gotta' love table-top gaming, because in the end, just go with whatever works for you.
Oh yeah, and
Just my 2 cents...
My vote is for following the EPIC tables for BAB, Saves, and new ones created for Defense and Reputation.
This is a popular opinion. My quesiton is what kind of an idiot EPIC character would take a Strong Hero Epic Class then, if he's forced into the same BAB and Defense bonus as the Smart Hero?
Smart hero gets more skills... and now the same BAB.
As someone mentioned already I would either have all classes increase as normal beyond 20th level with a cap on 4 iterative attacks
OR
Have a set of specially balanced EPIC classes designed specifically for 20th level and higher that have similar (but not quite identical) bab and defense and so on to minimize the effect of characters best and worst values being driven ludicrously apart.
Once a character reaches level 20, he stops gaining bonuses on the tables of his classes, with the notable exception of Reputation (which goes on and on forever...if you're over level 20, people will have heard of you, i mean, seriously).
every level above 20 gives you an "epic" bonus to something, depending on what the class you're taking does and what you did last level.
If the class got a boost in BaB, you may take a +1 Epic Bonus to Attack (not a base attack raise). if it's defense increased from last level, you may instead take a Defense Increase (a +1 Dodge Bonus to defense...yes, a Dodge bonus). If it had a saving throw increase, you may instead add a +1 Epic Bonus to any Saves that increased from last level. You gain the Reputation Bonus Normally.
When leveling, you choose if the bonus goes into Combat (attack or defense) or saves. You may NOT do the same thing twice in a row. So if you took an attack bonus at level 21, then at level 22 you're stuck with a save bonus (may not take a "combat" bonus, so no defense or attack). if it was a save, stuck with a combat. If this means no change is made, then that's the way your class fell this level.
Classes are left UNCHANGED. That puts only 10 levels on a class. However, since most concepts can run between 2 base classes, and often can be represented by an advanced class on top of that (if not a prestige class), that gives you a good 35 levels in one particular concept to play with. if you get THAT high, then you may want to considering getting out more in RL, or the GM needs to re-evaluate the way he handles giving out XP. (or it's been years and it's time to retire the character...i mean, seriously).
This is a popular opinion. My quesiton is what kind of an idiot EPIC character would take a Strong Hero Epic Class then, if he's forced into the same BAB and Defense bonus as the Smart Hero?
Smart hero gets more skills... and now the same BAB.
As someone mentioned already I would either have all classes increase as normal beyond 20th level with a cap on 4 iterative attacks
OR
Have a set of specially balanced EPIC classes designed specifically for 20th level and higher that have similar (but not quite identical) bab and defense and so on to minimize the effect of characters best and worst values being driven ludicrously apart.
The same reason that you keep playing as a fighter into Epic levels, rather than multiclassing into wizard. You get a bigger HD and different bonus feats.
1: Skill Points and Class Skills
-Granted, a Smart hero has a LOT more skill points than a Strong, but if the Smart hero doesn't have any skills you are interested in taking, why bother? I'd rather have a few skills that I'll use, rather than a lot that I won't.
2: Hit Die
-Strong (and especailly Tough) heros get better HD than the Smart hero.
3: Bonus Feats
-Once again, who has the bonus feats that you'll most likely use? Pick depending on your what you want.
4: Class Talents
-Arguably the most important reason to pick any class. Either to learn new ones, or improve the ones you already have.
Anyways, most classes have similar BAB and DEF progressions anyways. There is a smaller amount of deviation between the d20 MODERN core classes than the 3.5 D&D core classes at 20'th level. In D&D it's fairly easy to have a 20'th level character with a +20 BAB. In Modern however it's a whole other story.
Lets break it down, counting only Core MODERN (6 basic and 12 advanced) and compare it to Core 3.5 D&D (11 basic).
Base Attack Bonus
- 1/1 progression: 2/18 Modern, 4/11 D&D
- 3/4 progression: 8/18 Modern, 5/11 D&D
- 1/2 progression: 8/18 Modern, 2/11 D&D
Defense
- +3 DEF at Lv.10: 5/18 Modern, NA D&D
- +5 DEF at Lv.10: 9/18 Modern, NA D&D
- +7 DEF at Lv.10: 3/18 Modern, NA D&D
- +8 DEF at Lv.10: 1.18 Modern, NA D&D
Reputation
- have +2 at Lv.10: 3/18 Modern, NA D&D
- have +3 at Lv.10: 7/18 Modern, NA D&D
- have +4 at Lv.10: 6/18 Moder, NA D&D
- have +5 at Lv.10: 2/18 Modern, NA D&D
Skill Points (as a Human)
- 3+Int per level: 4/18 Modern, 5/11 D&D
- 5+Int per level: 9/18 Modern, 3/11 D&D
- 7+Int per level: 4/18 Modern, 2/11 D&D
- 9+Int per level: 1/18 Modern, 1/11 D&D
Hit Die
- have d4 per level: 0/18 Modern, 2/11 D&D
- have d6 per level: 6/18 Modern, 2/11 D&D
- have d8 per level: 7/18 Modern, 4/11 D&D
- have d10 per level: 4/18 Modern, 2/11 D&D
- have d12 per level: 1/18 Modern, 1/11 D&D
Fortitude Saves
- have +3 at Lv.10: 7/18 Modern, 4/11 D&D
- have +5 at Lv.10: 9/18 Modern, NA D&D
- have +7 at Lv.10: 2/18 Modern, 7/11 D&D
Reflex Saves
- have +3 at Lv.10: 8/18 Modern, 7/11 D&D
- have +5 at Lv.10: 7/18 Modern, NA D&D
- have +7 at Lv.10: 3/18 Modern, 4/11 D&D
Will Saves
- have +3 at Lv.10: 11/18 Modern, 5/11 D&D
- have +5 at Lv.10: 5/18 Modern, NA D&D
- have +7 at Lv.10: 2/18 Modern, 6/11 D&D
Just generalizing, but it looks like MODERN already hangs more around the averages than the extremes, especailly looking at the Saves. In D&D it's either 'high' or 'low'. In MODERN it can be 'high', 'low', or 'medium'; and more often than not it hovers around 'medium' (I know that if you multi-class in D&D, it can help even them out. But if you take 20 strait levels you're going to have only 'high' or 'low'). Take into account that the MODERN system not only encourages, but forces you to multi-class, and the BAB, Saves and DEF level out even more.
So a 5 Strong, 5 Tough, 10 Martial Artist character and a 5 Smart, 5 Dedicated, 10 Filed Scientist both reach level 21. They both get the same advancement in BAB, Saves, Def, and Reputation. So what class will they advance next in? Of course the Field Scientist would most likely advance in another level of Smart. But how about the Martial Artist? The Smart hero might get plenty more Skill Points, but continuing on as a Strong hero will give better HD, points in skills s/he already has, and relevant bonus Feats and Tallents.
I also vote for using epic progression tables instead of the normal ones for Feats/ABs/Defense. It helps play balance some extreme situations, even though it somewhat damages classes like Strong hero
I DON'T agree for an epic progression to the basic classes (so, anyway, you won't take much levels in basic classes after epic levels) because it causes awfull problems with talents like charm. Anyway, multiclassing is good. Of course, an epic game has to be supported by additional prestige classes, new feats etc.
IMC it was quite useful to have heroes like strong 10/charismatic 10/ some prc... and worked nice.
For spellcasting, the epic spellcasting feat and prestige classes could easily allow an epic spell caster to reach to 9th level spells (drawing from appropriate spells of standard d20) - which is not broken (he's epic after all).
But most of the bunch of nice abilities should be possible with epic feats.
I play 7thSea and in general swashbuckling adventures. It's not bad to have fate witches with swordsman schools who reach level 21 and get some really dark epic feats :D. Or the Finnegan Boxer/Drunken Master smashing his way :D.
nice work people, nice work. how can you read how much exp for example an 26 leveled epic-level hero gets because in the EL level table the table only reaches lvl 20??? And how much experience you must get to lvl 26 for example? there ain't no tables!
One thing is to buy the Epic Level Handbook, OR just give out an amount that you feel is appropriate.
I don't know, I've never run Epic.
One thing is to buy the Epic Level Handbook,
Epic Level Handbook, a famous book? never heard though. I doubt that they sell it on Finland.
Epic Level Handbook, a famous book? never heard though. I doubt that they sell it on Finland.
D&D 3.0e book, made redundant (I think) by the inclusion of Epic Classes and progressions in the 3.5e DMG...
My question is, how do hit points affect a high level game? There will be high-powered weaponry, but it's damage output is pretty much set in stone (not counting ammo variations tha is), and psionics will be THE ultimate in weaponry since it progresses with you. But how do you handle the non-cyborg, non psionic being able to shrug off gunfire from a chaingun? My thinking is that gunfire (regardless of it's source) should be a cause for concern, not make the player think "Well, they are filling the room with enough lead to swim through, but I should have enough hp to make it."
I was thinking of reducing the die type by one class for levels beyond 20, but wanted to see what experiences you all have had, and how you handled it.
I have a question for all those who have actually played or GM'ed an epic level d20M game. Specifically, for those who've been in a "realistic" game. I'm thinking of running a d20M campaign soon and it's going to be a quasi-realistic setting. There's going to be powered armor and cyborgs galore, but the only thing with superhuman abilities will be psionics (think of combining the Ghost in the Shell setting with the movie Akira and you have a good idea).
My question is, how do hit points affect a high level game? There will be high-powered weaponry, but it's damage output is pretty much set in stone (not counting ammo variations tha is), and psionics will be THE ultimate in weaponry since it progresses with you. But how do you handle the non-cyborg, non psionic being able to shrug off gunfire from a chaingun? My thinking is that gunfire (regardless of it's source) should be a cause for concern, not make the player think "Well, they are filling the room with enough lead to swim through, but I should have enough hp to make it."
I was thinking of reducing the die type by one class for levels beyond 20, but wanted to see what experiences you all have had, and how you handled it.
Its simple. the higher the lvl your opponent the higher their attack and possably damage bonuses.
Epic Feat: Rambo
Prerequisite: Personal Firearms Prof., Advanced Firearms Prof., Burst Fire,BAB +15
You may fire a Huge Machinegun in two hands without a bipod.