Solving the Truenamer Problem - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Solving the Truenamer Problem

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jackrabbit
May 15, 2006 21:28:47 Debate about the effectiveness of the truenamer class presented in the Tome of Magic are common, with arguments made as to its supposed weakness always countered with arguments involving situational equipment and buffs. The problem cited by most players unhappy with the truenamer class is the high DC requirement for their utterances. As it is now in the Tome of Magic, the equation for truespeak DC is effectively 15+2(CR)+2(number of times used today.) Without carefully chosen items and buffs from other party members, this is very daunting, but is suitable for most people’s campaigns.

The issue remains, though, that not everyone’s DM likes to outfit the players with skill-boosting magical items. As a DM, I prefer to give my players raw cash for role-playing purposes, allowing them to buy estates, hire servants, and run businesses, or simply squander it all as they deem necessary. In a campaign where there are no magical items for sale in your average marketplace, the whole thing is very inconvenient, but the fact is that this is a minority situation with this particular RPG.

However, one detail about this proposed class that irks me is the requirement on a skill. Skills, as well as feats, are a secondary statistic meant to allow the player a little more flexibility with their character sheet, for role-playing or other purposes. I take issue with the fact that this class requires the player to take skill ranks in truespeak, taking away from some of their flexibility in character creation. This is especially irking because of the loremaster-type position I would like truenamers to hold in my campaign setting.

So, what would be a convenient solution to both problems, while still working reasonably well in both types of campaign? My first thought was to simply lower the DC of the truespeak check, to 15 + CR + (Utterance Level) + 2(repetitions), but that doesn’t fit too well with other people’s campaign models. The goal, in my mind, is to produce a solution that will not only fit my own needs, but the needs of players and DMs who choose to run more high-magic games. Thus, I addressed my second issue, in combination with the ones raised by the solution to the first; Truespeak should not be a skill.

While this does seem somewhat unfair to “dabblers,” it’s somewhat safe to assume that anyone with some level of skill in truespeak should be considered to have a level in Truenamer, as there is no readily available excuse for why a rogue who takes cross-class ranks shouldn’t be able to utter minor word of nurturing. So, the obvious solution would be to attribute to ability as a level-dependant one; Truenamer level plus intelligence modifier makes a very elegant solution to a tricky problem. Not only does it free up those few yet useful skill points for a character to use, but it prevents many of the issues that skill buffing items and spells inevitably cause anyone attempting to lower the truespeak DC. The solution also addresses some of the complaints raised by players who feel that truename research is underpowered by very significantly boosting the value of such a buff in truespeak (See Archangel’s response, “Truenamers: Weaker as They Level?” RunningWilder.)

[It is worth noting that my solution raises one major issue: Most truenamer utterances do not have saves, which can easily allow a truenamer more than 10d6 damage per round. To counter this, I would suggest a simple Will save for the offensive truenamer utterances, but I have yet to playtest the idea. I plan to post updates over the summer as our campaign advances, and I gain some insight into the playing mechanics and effect on class role.]
#2
zombiegleemax
Jul 08, 2006 17:27:05 I really like the idea's you've presented, bravo^^ I'm not entirely sure about the adding will saves thing(though part of me agrees, finally a reason to go hunting after their personal truenames).

Another possible change to lessen the frequency of the truespeech would be perhaps to use this slight variation of your formula 15+CR+2xutterance level and then not change anything related to the utterances themselves.
#3
tequila_sunrise
Jul 09, 2006 17:12:52 My solution is simple: DC = 15 + (1.5 x CR)

I've done the math, and this solution does produce a much more even progression. It should be noted, though, that I use my own game style in these calculations--bonus simplicity. Items are easy to get and buy but I don't allow 'bogus bonus' items (like items that grant luck bonuses); this means that I only took into account enhancements, inherents and level boosts in my math.

As to your problem with truenamers lacking in 'lore master versatility', think of it this way: any decent truenamer will max out the truenaming skill which leaves 3 + Int skill points per level. Wizards, on the other hand only get 2 + Int per level. If you're still uncomfortable with the situation, well you can always houserule that Truenamers get 6 + Int skill points.
#4
tequila_sunrise
Jul 10, 2006 12:00:53 My solution is simple: Truespeak DC = 15 + (1.25 x CR). This creates a nearly perfect progression of 50% truespeak success through all levels. I should note that I do magic items differently than most DMs though; Int booster items (both enhancement and inherent) are easy to buy but I don't allow any 'bogus bonus' items (like items that grant luck bonuses).
#5
eternalzzyx
Jul 10, 2006 12:03:58 A nice solution to be sure, and one that I would consider using, but how have you modified the prestige classes offered in the truenaming section of ToM?
#6
Wrathamon
Jul 10, 2006 19:24:24 Warlock's Eldritch Blast doesn’t allow for a Save either and they do it every round.

I don’t think it is an issue, as many have shown that a Warlock never gets an advantage in most campaigns over the spell slot casters, but are actually behind the damage curve.
#7
nephlite
Jul 21, 2006 19:19:47 Your proposed DC: 15 + CR + (Utterance Level) + 2(repetitions).
Questions: Cr 1 targets= DC 17.
At level 1 you'd have at best 16 int (maybe 18 if lucky) and be level 1 truenamer. Check bonus + 4.
You need a 13 or higher= 35% chance.

Granted later you can increase your intelligence to narrow the gap. Does a natural 20 automatically work like attack rolls/saves? When it was a skill it didn't, but now that it is a class ability.

But overall, it is a good idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jackrabbit May 15, 2006 21:28:47	Debate about the effectiveness of the truenamer class presented in the Tome of Magic are common, with arguments made as to its supposed weakness always countered with arguments involving situational equipment and buffs. The problem cited by most players unhappy with the truenamer class is the high DC requirement for their utterances. As it is now in the Tome of Magic, the equation for truespeak DC is effectively 15+2(CR)+2(number of times used today.) Without carefully chosen items and buffs from other party members, this is very daunting, but is suitable for most people’s campaigns. The issue remains, though, that not everyone’s DM likes to outfit the players with skill-boosting magical items. As a DM, I prefer to give my players raw cash for role-playing purposes, allowing them to buy estates, hire servants, and run businesses, or simply squander it all as they deem necessary. In a campaign where there are no magical items for sale in your average marketplace, the whole thing is very inconvenient, but the fact is that this is a minority situation with this particular RPG. However, one detail about this proposed class that irks me is the requirement on a skill. Skills, as well as feats, are a secondary statistic meant to allow the player a little more flexibility with their character sheet, for role-playing or other purposes. I take issue with the fact that this class requires the player to take skill ranks in truespeak, taking away from some of their flexibility in character creation. This is especially irking because of the loremaster-type position I would like truenamers to hold in my campaign setting. So, what would be a convenient solution to both problems, while still working reasonably well in both types of campaign? My first thought was to simply lower the DC of the truespeak check, to 15 + CR + (Utterance Level) + 2(repetitions), but that doesn’t fit too well with other people’s campaign models. The goal, in my mind, is to produce a solution that will not only fit my own needs, but the needs of players and DMs who choose to run more high-magic games. Thus, I addressed my second issue, in combination with the ones raised by the solution to the first; Truespeak should not be a skill. While this does seem somewhat unfair to “dabblers,” it’s somewhat safe to assume that anyone with some level of skill in truespeak should be considered to have a level in Truenamer, as there is no readily available excuse for why a rogue who takes cross-class ranks shouldn’t be able to utter minor word of nurturing. So, the obvious solution would be to attribute to ability as a level-dependant one; Truenamer level plus intelligence modifier makes a very elegant solution to a tricky problem. Not only does it free up those few yet useful skill points for a character to use, but it prevents many of the issues that skill buffing items and spells inevitably cause anyone attempting to lower the truespeak DC. The solution also addresses some of the complaints raised by players who feel that truename research is underpowered by very significantly boosting the value of such a buff in truespeak (See Archangel’s response, “Truenamers: Weaker as They Level?” RunningWilder.) [It is worth noting that my solution raises one major issue: Most truenamer utterances do not have saves, which can easily allow a truenamer more than 10d6 damage per round. To counter this, I would suggest a simple Will save for the offensive truenamer utterances, but I have yet to playtest the idea. I plan to post updates over the summer as our campaign advances, and I gain some insight into the playing mechanics and effect on class role.]
#2 zombiegleemax Jul 08, 2006 17:27:05	I really like the idea's you've presented, bravo^^ I'm not entirely sure about the adding will saves thing(though part of me agrees, finally a reason to go hunting after their personal truenames). Another possible change to lessen the frequency of the truespeech would be perhaps to use this slight variation of your formula 15+CR+2xutterance level and then not change anything related to the utterances themselves.
#3 tequila_sunrise Jul 09, 2006 17:12:52	My solution is simple: DC = 15 + (1.5 x CR) I've done the math, and this solution does produce a much more even progression. It should be noted, though, that I use my own game style in these calculations--bonus simplicity. Items are easy to get and buy but I don't allow 'bogus bonus' items (like items that grant luck bonuses); this means that I only took into account enhancements, inherents and level boosts in my math. As to your problem with truenamers lacking in 'lore master versatility', think of it this way: any decent truenamer will max out the truenaming skill which leaves 3 + Int skill points per level. Wizards, on the other hand only get 2 + Int per level. If you're still uncomfortable with the situation, well you can always houserule that Truenamers get 6 + Int skill points.
#4 tequila_sunrise Jul 10, 2006 12:00:53	My solution is simple: Truespeak DC = 15 + (1.25 x CR). This creates a nearly perfect progression of 50% truespeak success through all levels. I should note that I do magic items differently than most DMs though; Int booster items (both enhancement and inherent) are easy to buy but I don't allow any 'bogus bonus' items (like items that grant luck bonuses).
#5 eternalzzyx Jul 10, 2006 12:03:58	A nice solution to be sure, and one that I would consider using, but how have you modified the prestige classes offered in the truenaming section of ToM?
#6 Wrathamon Jul 10, 2006 19:24:24	Warlock's Eldritch Blast doesn’t allow for a Save either and they do it every round. I don’t think it is an issue, as many have shown that a Warlock never gets an advantage in most campaigns over the spell slot casters, but are actually behind the damage curve.
#7 nephlite Jul 21, 2006 19:19:47	Your proposed DC: 15 + CR + (Utterance Level) + 2(repetitions). Questions: Cr 1 targets= DC 17. At level 1 you'd have at best 16 int (maybe 18 if lucky) and be level 1 truenamer. Check bonus + 4. You need a 13 or higher= 35% chance. Granted later you can increase your intelligence to narrow the gap. Does a natural 20 automatically work like attack rolls/saves? When it was a skill it didn't, but now that it is a class ability. But overall, it is a good idea.