Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 spikes01k Aug 13, 2007 21:52:12	Hello one and all. I have a semi long list of house rules which I have lovingly named "Spikes01k's DnD 4e update rules". So I thought I'd post them up and ask if anyone can see any natural flaws or points in which people can make abuse of them. P.S. With the announcement of 4e, I find this even more necessary, sense they are effectively leaving us 3.5 players in the dust to fend for our selves as the proceed to try and out date us after only a few short years. I suggest using this INSTEAD of buying 4e and wait till 5e comes out. ______________________________________ * Introduce intermediate saves, Poor but with +1 at levels 2, 11, and 20. *Clerics and druids get intermediate saves to fort, not full not poor, at the same points as the scout. *Fighters get intermediate save to reflex, instead of poor. *All Classes except Barbarians get a +2 class skill bonus for skill points in addition to their own normal skill points. *Ninja's Ki and AC abilities are based of Int instead of Wis. *Ninja Ki Abilities would be lost if they multi-class before level 9, with the exception of PrCs. *No Alignment restriction except when mixing opposing alignment classes with specific deity classes and PrCs. *Paladins would require to worship a deity of the same alignment to be anything but L/G. *Half Dragons- Any type of half dragon can be any alignment. Breath Weapon DC, and uses per day, increase by +1 for every two class levels they posses. Breath weapon damage increases by +1d6 for every two levels they posses. LA +2 *Cross Class Skills now no longer have any different max ranks than class skills. Edit: *Using Hex Blade fix linked here *Weapon Finesse will be eliminated automatically applying if your character started with a higher dex than str. A feat would be required after creation. __________________________________ * Home Patch Shield Rules: There are two main reasons for doing this. 1. There are no set rules for making/wielding a larger shield in any of the books I have or have been informed about. 2. Sword and shield wielding is a less supported fighting style than most of the others and could use a slight face lift. Weaponized Shields: All shields can be made double thick like a weapons to do more damage identical to a weapon of a larger size. For all intents purposes they retain their normal AC and are treated as one size larger for weapon damage; their weight and hit points are also doubled. To use them at all you require is the monkey grip feat and implies a -1 hit when shield bashing with the shield; as you normally would with a larger weapon with the monkey grip feat. If you have the ability to wield a larger weapon with out penalty you ignore the -1 to hit when shield bashing. A shield that is built for a larger person that is weaponized is treated as being two sizes larger than normally and can not be wielded. You may increase the weapon's damage even more by adding shield spikes and armor razors as per the normal rules, but their cost and weight is doubled as well. Surprisingly this does not effect arcane spell chance failure or armor check penalty. Larger Shield Rules: When using a shield that was designed for someone one size larger than you is simpler than using a weapon that is one size larger. In any case, a shield that is made for some one a size larger is treated as the shield listed all intensive purposes with properties such as arcane spell chance failure, weight, armor check penalty, and weapon size, but not proficiency's. You only require to have the proficiency for the shield as it was designed to wield, the monkey grip feat (which make shield bashing have a -1 to hit) or the ability to wield a weapon one size larger with out penalty, and to pay to get the shield modified by an a proper armor smith costing 75 gold. with out this modification you can not wield the shield. Other more restrictive requirements are listed with the appropriate shield below. Thus a goliath with a heavy shield proficiency can wield a large sized heavy shield as an extreme shield with no feather requirements, or if they are proficient with a large extreme shield they may wield it as a tower shield with no feather requirements. Larger Shields *Bucker: Is treated as light shield for all intents and purposes. *Light Shield: Is treated as heavy shield. *Heavy Shield: Is treated as a Extreme Shield. *Extreme Shields: For all intents and purposed is treated as a tower shield. You are required the ability to wield a larger weapon with no negatives, at the very least, to wield this shield. You may not bash with this shield when it is one size larger. *Tower shield: This shield acts in every way like a tower shield, and grants an additional +1 AC, except it simply can not be wielded unless they have the feat "Greater Shield Grip" or the epic feats Wield Oversized Weapon. Other Larger Exotic Shield *Battle cloak, gnome: You can not properly use a battle cloak made for a different sized wearer. *Shield, Gauntlet: You can not properly use a gauntlet shield made for a different sized wearer. However you may get a shield gauntlet made to function like a verson one sized larger. The weight and cost is doubled plus an additional 75 gold. You also require the feat "Greater Shield Grip" or the epic feat "Wield Oversized Weapon" This shield is other wise treated identically to a heavy shield. The Arcane Spell Chance Failure and Armor Check Penalty is not effected. *Riders Shield: To wield you still require the exotic feat but is other wise treated identically to a heavy shield. *More on Extreme Shields: Monkey Grip, and other abilities to wield larger weapons allows you to perform a bash with an extreme shield. You treat it for all intensive purposes damage wise as a weaponized heavy shield. Feat Greater Shield Grip Requirements: Powerful Build, Strength 19, proficiency with a tower shield, or specific exotic shield, and shield specialization "tower shield" or other specific exotic shield. Benefit: This feat allows you to wield a larger sized tower shield or specific exotic shield that can use this feat as stated above. Special: This feat can be selected as a fighter feat. You may take this feat multiple times but the benefits do not stack. Each time you take this it must apply to a different shield. Smaller Shield Use: A shield built for a smaller creature is not as effective as a normal shield of its same type. To use a smaller shield you need to be proficient with how it going to be used but you do not require any special modification. *Bucker: Can not be used *Light Shield: is identical to and used as a a buckler; you can not shield bash with this shield *Heavy Shield: is identical to and used as a light shield *Extreme Shields: is identical to and used as a heavy shield; *Tower shield: is identical to and used as a extreme shield _________________________________ New/Modified Feats [b] Two Weapon Style Preq: 17 Dex, 13 Str, +1 base attack bonus Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 3 and the one for your off hand lessens by 7. The extra attacks gain from this feat are in capable of dealing extra damage dice from precision based attacks such as Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, skirmish, and other bonus damage that requires the target to be vulnerable to critical hits. However this does work with precion bonus damage from souces like Insightful Strike and Elegant Strike. In addition to the standard single extra attack, when your base attack bonus increases to +6 you get a second attack with your off hand weapon, but at a -5 penalty. When your base attack reaches +12, you get a second attack with an off-hand weapon, you get a second attack with it, at a -10 penalty; and so on in this fashion as your base attack bonus increases. Special: This does replace the normal two weapon fighting feats, however the two feats do not stack. This feat meets the qualifications for two weapon fighting feats so long as you have the same base attack bonus as said two weapon fighting feat. Example: If you have a base attack bonus of +6, you qualify as having improved two weapon fighting feat for all purposes such as feats, prestige classes, etc. Support and references by: Aryxbez, OneWinged4ngel, and tarkin. Thank you. Monkey Grip Preq: Str 15, Base attack bonus +4, Power Attack Benefit: You may wield weapons one size larger than normal, and as they were intended to be used. So a large one handed weapon may be used with only one hand; however you still inquire a -1 to hit with the larger weapon. ___________ New Magic Item Dual Weapon Enhancing Crystals Cost: any enhancements costs, plus 1300 gp These crystals are linked to a specific pair of masterwork weapons. These bonuses only apply when have pair of weapons with these crystals on the same body. Trying to have another person wield one of these two weapons separately will find the bonuses applied by the crystal will not take effect. You may only apply a total of +10 weapon enhancements on them to both weapons. These always circumvent normal bonuses with a "+" enhancement bonuses on the weapons it-self; however other non "+" enhancement bonuses are not canceled out by these crystals. If a weapon is ever broken that is linked to a crystal you must re-pay half the cost the current bonuses to get it re-attuned to the crystal. If both your linked weapons are broken you may keep your gloves to cover the 1300 base cost, but all the enhancements must be re-bought. Greater Dual Weapon Enhancing Crystals Cost: 2600 Special (read below) These work as per the Dual Weapon Enhancing Crystals, except you may apply non "+" weapon enhancements onto both weapons but at 1.5 their normal cost. Still only in sets of 2. ________________ Ok thats it for now. What do you think?
#2 samurai_zero Aug 17, 2007 3:02:42	ok some rules i really could care less about, But 2 rules sort of made me think bs. Ambidexterity being the first one and Apprentice Woodsman being the other. First Ambidexterity: One is born ambidextrous, or i should say better at using both hands more than others, you cant train ambidexterity, a friend of mine proved it. You can try, and you can get "good" at it, but you cant become truly ambidextrous, and speaking of which what does STR have anything to do with being ambidextrous? All it is - is using one hand as good as the other. Second Apprentice Woodsman: The entire thing makes no sense at all, why just barbs and rangers? Barbs hardly need the extra skill points, as do rangers as it is. So all you're really doing is wasting a feat to become a human subtype. Dont get to heated, its just my opinion and someone might disagree with me, its a free country.
#3 spikes01k Aug 17, 2007 7:28:04	ok some rules i really could care less about, But 2 rules sort of made me think bs. Ambidexterity being the first one and Apprentice Woodsman being the other. First Ambidexterity: One is born ambidextrous, or i should say better at using both hands more than others, you cant train ambidexterity, a friend of mine proved it. You can try, and you can get "good" at it, but you cant become truly ambidextrous, and speaking of which what does STR have anything to do with being ambidextrous? All it is - is using one hand as good as the other. Second Apprentice Woodsman: The entire thing makes no sense at all, why just barbs and rangers? Barbs hardly need the extra skill points, as do rangers as it is. So all you're really doing is wasting a feat to become a human subtype. Dont get to heated, its just my opinion and someone might disagree with me, its a free country. Personally I have heard of some people accentual learning it, but making it a first level only feat might not be a bad idea. The woods-man, sure I can give that the axe. Wasn't too crazy about it any way.
#4 zombiegleemax Aug 17, 2007 13:50:27	The uses per day for a half dragons breath weapon seems to eliminate the need for the dragon breath (or something like that) feat from draconomicon.
#5 spikes01k Aug 17, 2007 16:17:24	The uses per day for a half dragons breath weapon seems to eliminate the need for the dragon breath (or something like that) feat from draconomicon. Yeah it does. Its supposed to be a LA worth ability... but you can only use it once per day. You still may want to use it more times per day, just less of a demand for it, thats all.
#6 trapspringer Aug 17, 2007 18:16:33	Disagree with changes to ambidexterity. I was born left handed but learned to do everything I was taught to do righty. Everything I learned on my own I do lefty (so for example I write right handed, but being as I learned how to use a knife and fork more or less on my own, I hold my knife in my left hand).
#7 morwen Aug 17, 2007 18:51:44	*Clerics and druids get intermediate saves to fort, not full not poor, at the same points as the scout. *Fighters get intermediate save to reflex, instead of poor. What would an intermediate save progression look like? The only two versions that currently exist in 3.5 are good saves and poor saves. For instance, the Scout, which you refer to, has poor Fort and Will, and good Ref.
#8 hanzo187 Aug 17, 2007 19:12:59	He's referring to the Scout's Battle Fortitude ability. Basically, at Level 20, the Scout has +9 Fort, which is, of course, between the good and bad save. My guess on how to do it would be to start at +1, then increase by 1 at 2nd, 5th, 7th, 10th, 12th, 15th, 17th, and 20th to get +9. Here's a code to help.
#9 mikeyp Aug 17, 2007 20:36:42	FWIW, D20 Modern uses intermediate saves, and Hanzo's example looks like it's inline with that... For reference: http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/Strong.php
#10 spikes01k Aug 17, 2007 22:40:53	What would an intermediate save progression look like? The only two versions that currently exist in 3.5 are good saves and poor saves. For instance, the Scout, which you refer to, has poor Fort and Will, and good Ref. Look at battle fortitude. It basically grants an intermediate fortitude, even though it is not on the save section of the chart.
#11 KingOfIllefarn Aug 20, 2007 19:20:07	For any of you who aren't afraid of math...and particularly if you like the optional fractional bonuses rule from UA; here are the mathematical progressions for the three save categories. Poor: 0 + 1/3 (.333) per level (including 1st) Medium: 1 + 2/5 (.4) per level (including 1st) Good: 2 + 1/2 (.5) per level (including 1st) IIRC the math for the medium save doesn't match level per level with the D20 Modern book...but frankly the math is better, and its the same at 1st level and 20th level (and it works with the fractional bonuses rule):D
#12 spikes01k Aug 20, 2007 21:26:22	Thanks. Yeah I forgot about that.
#13 Scottbert Aug 28, 2007 17:11:46	*Ninja's Ki and AC abilities are based of Int instead of Wis. *SILENCE* Yes, that's the sound (or lack thereof) of every wizard taking a 1-level dip of ninja. Well, at least the ones that aren't armor-wearing gishes.
#14 spikes01k Aug 28, 2007 17:26:14	*SILENCE* Yes, that's the sound (or lack thereof) of every wizard taking a 1-level dip of ninja. Well, at least the ones that aren't armor-wearing gishes. ....hmmm.... They already have the dragon compendium blade dancers that grant AC bonus from Cha. That way sorcers can get an AC bonus of the same type, or monk for clerics. So where you going with this? Is this any worse off then what has already been done?
#15 zombiegleemax Aug 28, 2007 22:50:53	I fixed TWF into a two-feat tree. (3.0ish) Ambidexterity Prequisite: Wisdom or Charisma 11 or higher. Effect: You can use two weapons at -3 atk penalty, -2 if light weapons. Normal: If wielding two weapons regardless of light or one-handed you take a -4 in each hand. Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Ambidexterity, Wisdom or Charisma 13 or higher. Effect: You can use two weapons at -2 atk penalty, -1 if light weapons.
#16 spikes01k Aug 29, 2007 6:22:59	I fixed TWF into a two-feat tree. (3.0ish) Ambidexterity Prequisite: Wisdom or Charisma 11 or higher. Effect: You can use two weapons at -3 atk penalty, -2 if light weapons. Normal: If wielding two weapons regardless of light or one-handed you take a -4 in each hand. Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Ambidexterity, Wisdom or Charisma 13 or higher. Effect: You can use two weapons at -2 atk penalty, -1 if light weapons. Interesting idea, but I don't think it solves anything.
#17 spikes01k Aug 30, 2007 6:00:27	*SILENCE* Yes, that's the sound (or lack thereof) of every wizard taking a 1-level dip of ninja. Well, at least the ones that aren't armor-wearing gishes. After second thought, I decided that they would lose that ability if they multi classed before level 8. So they are stuck taking the class for 8 levels killing their magic casting ability.
#18 billthemaniac Aug 30, 2007 12:50:43	After second thought, I decided that they would lose that ability if they multi classed before level 8. So they are stuck taking the class for 8 levels killing their magic casting ability. Klunky. Does it mean "Changes to wisdom" or "abilities disappear"?
#19 spikes01k Aug 30, 2007 12:52:15	Klunky. Does it mean "Changes to wisdom" or "abilities disappear"? Just the AC bonus.
#20 spikes01k Sep 07, 2007 18:20:39	I made some more notes on the ninja fix. I also have added the weapon finesse fix as well. The feat should not exist really. Most of the good weapons that you can weapon finesse require exotic weapon prof. so you basically paying two feats to wield an underpowered exotic weapon, or a finessable version of an already existing weapon.
#21 thakowsaizmu Sep 08, 2007 10:21:31	I fixed TWF into a two-feat tree. (3.0ish) Ambidexterity Prequisite: Wisdom or Charisma 11 or higher. Effect: You can use two weapons at -3 atk penalty, -2 if light weapons. Normal: If wielding two weapons regardless of light or one-handed you take a -4 in each hand. Two-Weapon Fighting: Prequisite: Ambidexterity, Wisdom or Charisma 13 or higher. Effect: You can use two weapons at -2 atk penalty, -1 if light weapons. What do wisdom and charisma have to do with ambidexterity? It should be (and is) based on dexterity. Ambi both, Dexter right handed. So it means that both hands are the right hand. (Left hand being sinister and all). It isn't called [b]Ambiwisdom[/b]. I am just not seeing thr logic to that change is all. A while back I made the feat only availible at first level and that has worked out nicely. I had a problemme where at one point in a campaign every character had the feat, most for some really lame reason. One player took it because at one point his characters one hand was bound and he couldn't use his weapon well with the other so he was defeated. He took the feat so he wouldn't be in that situation again. I told him that you can't just spontaneously become ambidextrous, but he insisted that there wasn't anything stopping him from taking it (I suppose the DM saying "no" isn't something to stoppe anyone...), and it was a character feat so he is taking it. He never got to use it, bwahaha!
#22 kitsunesoup Sep 11, 2007 21:56:31	What do wisdom and charisma have to do with ambidexterity? It should be (and is) based on dexterity. Well, one could suppose, if one really wanted to get technical, Ambidexterity is based on the wiring of your brain, not on how nimble your fingers are. So really, one would believe that Ambidexterity should be Intelligence-based. Of course, one also fails to believe that an ability score should be a pre-requisite at all, because it's scientifically an inborn trait. However, if you allowed players to learn to be ambidextrous, one believes that no ability score should have control over it. After all, a clumsy town guard may have learned to fight with both hands. KitsuneSoup
#23 darokinblade Sep 12, 2007 22:39:57	Yes, but under that logic, every skill should fall under wisdom. Aren't most acts of strength sheer forces of will? Everything is linked to our mind. Without it, we would be vegetables. But that doesn't mean that wisdom or intelligence should control a CLEARLY physical characteristic.
#24 thakowsaizmu Sep 13, 2007 3:13:08	Well, one could suppose, if one really wanted to get technical, Ambidexterity is based on the wiring of your brain, not on how nimble your fingers are. So really, one would believe that Ambidexterity should be Intelligence-based. Of course, one also fails to believe that an ability score should be a pre-requisite at all, because it's scientifically an inborn trait. However, if you allowed players to learn to be ambidextrous, one believes that no ability score should have control over it. After all, a clumsy town guard may have learned to fight with both hands. KitsuneSoup Brain wiring has nothing to do with intellect, so it should be based on ones dexterity (Again, the word is Ambidexterity) above any one other attribute. The prerequisite makes sense for this feat because one needs a certain ammount of dextrous control to use both hands so freely regardless of brain wiring. Many people do some things better with their off hand than with their on hand, and that may be do to brain wiring, though it does not an ambidextrous person make. And a clumsy town guard has no business trying to fight with both hands, he could lop his own leg off with one of those buttery fingers of his, then he is no use to anyone. You know what, I say we fire him now.
#25 DarkSkrypter Apr 16, 2008 8:37:39	I personally find this thread unneccessary. 3e/3.5 was around for a total of 7 years prior to the announcement of 4e. And there will still be support for 3.5/3e anywhere you find DM's who homebrew and have decided not to update themselves to 4e rules. I personally can say that I will be releasing 3e/3.5 materials well into 4e, simultaneously with 4e revisions to those releases. The Skrypter has spoken.
#26 spikes01k Apr 17, 2008 17:21:01	I personally find this thread unneccessary. 3e/3.5 was around for a total of 7 years prior to the announcement of 4e. And there will still be support for 3.5/3e anywhere you find DM's who homebrew and have decided not to update themselves to 4e rules. I personally can say that I will be releasing 3e/3.5 materials well into 4e, simultaneously with 4e revisions to those releases. The Skrypter has spoken. These really are my suggestions to help balancing out the game. There is a spell that clerics can get at 7th level that really needs to be baned, the one that grants full base attack bonus.
#27 DarkSkrypter Apr 18, 2008 23:37:20	And which spell is this that you mention, I have seen nothing released that shows spells or spell lists?