system glitches - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

system glitches

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Aug 10, 2004 10:42:26 As everyone has experienced, the 1e system is not without its inarticulate presentations. I thought this thread might be a way to address the problems with 1eD&D's (&2e's) inconsistencies. A forum like this should be great for those who would like sound answers (interpretations) and/or advice by others who adore these books and have a great deal of experience handling them.

par exemple . . .

Major Artifact Powers - Death Ray (no saving throw) - How far do you let it go at that?

Solo ancient dragons are 8th level opponents, but how much XP would you award, as the DMG doesn't list it.

Demogorgon's insanity gaze affected all whose HD was less than 15 - no saving throw? That means fighters had to be 27th level and magic users were at least 22nd before they could offset such a challenge?! Orcus' wand touches you and you die (again, no saving throw), but only if it touches flesh or does it include armor?

Do Assassins' backstabbing abilities imply that they've successfully slain their target, even if it's a 20th level Cavalier with +5 field plate mail and a +5 shield?

Do you assign Lesser God status to demon lords and princes, arch devils, the big two dragons, slaad lords, etc. - How my campaign handled this conundrum was to grant them LG status only when confronting them on their own planes..

Anyway, you get the gist of this post. Many of you have great solutions to these and other situations where the books (as awesome as they are) become vague. I know I'd enjoy hearing your questions and answers - even implementing them in my campaigns for 1e.
#2
zombiegleemax
Aug 11, 2004 8:46:10 Solo ancient dragons are 8th level opponents, but how much XP would you award, as the DMG doesn't list it.
I would hit xp table in middle of book

Demogorgon's insanity gaze affected all whose HD was less than 15 - no saving throw? HD = hit dice or level.

Do Assassins' backstabbing abilities imply that they've successfully slain their target, ...
You hit the thac0 and roll the %. Dead Cavalier.
#3
zombiegleemax
Aug 11, 2004 12:24:46
Originally posted by jasper
Solo ancient dragons are 8th level opponents, but how much XP would you award, as the DMG doesn't list it.
I would hit xp table in middle of book

Demogorgon's insanity gaze affected all whose HD was less than 15 - no saving throw? HD = hit dice or level.

Do Assassins' backstabbing abilities imply that they've successfully slain their target, ...
You hit the thac0 and roll the %. Dead Cavalier.

When you go to the middle of the DMG, it does list the XP for almost every opponent, including the asterix on those semi-deific characters like Demogorgon, Asmodeus, Bahamut, etc. However, it only has an asterix where the regular dragons are listed. It does not list the XP value.

If HD equals hit dice or level, then why does a fighter at 11th level have 9 HD + 6 hit points (1HD=10die)? Why does a 16th level magic user (Mage) have 11 HD + 10 hit points (1HD=4die)? It's unclear as to how many HD you receive after 9th level for fighter classes, 11th for magic user classes, etc., but it certainly does not equate that HD is synonomous with HP. That's why I said equivalent HP to the die, or a 27th level fighter can offset Demogorgon's insanity gaze. 3eD&D does equate HD with level, but I'm not so sure about 1e or 2e.

As for the assassin template, thanks, I never used an assassin, and their backstabbing methods were always a wee bit confusing.
#4
algolei_dup
Aug 12, 2004 2:05:29 Nah, it's like jasper says: HD = level (or vice versa). Higher level character get set amounts of hp rather than rolling randomly, that's all. It still means a 16th-level MU (wizard) is equivalent to a 16 HD monster.

The XP table jasper is referring to is on p.85 of the 1st edition DMG. It's a little difficult to use at first, but with practice you should be able to figure out the XP values for the various dragons.
#5
zombiegleemax
Aug 12, 2004 8:22:13 Let's see ... looking through the DMG and found it (in with the attack matrices?). Thanks a lot guys. That item about the dragons has stymied me for the longest time. I really don't know why, but we had been using Lung Wang's XP design as his was an 8th level monster design.

I see your points about the HD equals level. Even though it is a bit vague in their presentation, your suggestions sound logical. The 3.0e and 3.5e are obvious, but I'll heed your advice. Thanks again.
#6
algolei_dup
Aug 13, 2004 2:04:16 Yeah, that's the area of the DMG, in around the combat tables.

Getting used to one set of editions makes the other set seem a bit vague in spots. Getting used to both makes your brain turn into a charcoal briquette. :D
#7
Thailfi
Aug 13, 2004 15:36:51 I always hated that a 30th level could get caught without a magic weapon and would have no chance against a wererat, but an ordinary ogre with a club would beat the wererat senseless without a problem.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 10, 2004 10:42:26	As everyone has experienced, the 1e system is not without its inarticulate presentations. I thought this thread might be a way to address the problems with 1eD&D's (&2e's) inconsistencies. A forum like this should be great for those who would like sound answers (interpretations) and/or advice by others who adore these books and have a great deal of experience handling them. par exemple . . . Major Artifact Powers - Death Ray (no saving throw) - How far do you let it go at that? Solo ancient dragons are 8th level opponents, but how much XP would you award, as the DMG doesn't list it. Demogorgon's insanity gaze affected all whose HD was less than 15 - no saving throw? That means fighters had to be 27th level and magic users were at least 22nd before they could offset such a challenge?! Orcus' wand touches you and you die (again, no saving throw), but only if it touches flesh or does it include armor? Do Assassins' backstabbing abilities imply that they've successfully slain their target, even if it's a 20th level Cavalier with +5 field plate mail and a +5 shield? Do you assign Lesser God status to demon lords and princes, arch devils, the big two dragons, slaad lords, etc. - How my campaign handled this conundrum was to grant them LG status only when confronting them on their own planes.. Anyway, you get the gist of this post. Many of you have great solutions to these and other situations where the books (as awesome as they are) become vague. I know I'd enjoy hearing your questions and answers - even implementing them in my campaigns for 1e.
#2 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 8:46:10	Solo ancient dragons are 8th level opponents, but how much XP would you award, as the DMG doesn't list it. I would hit xp table in middle of book Demogorgon's insanity gaze affected all whose HD was less than 15 - no saving throw? HD = hit dice or level. Do Assassins' backstabbing abilities imply that they've successfully slain their target, ... You hit the thac0 and roll the %. Dead Cavalier.
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 11, 2004 12:24:46	Originally posted by jasper Solo ancient dragons are 8th level opponents, but how much XP would you award, as the DMG doesn't list it. I would hit xp table in middle of book Demogorgon's insanity gaze affected all whose HD was less than 15 - no saving throw? HD = hit dice or level. Do Assassins' backstabbing abilities imply that they've successfully slain their target, ... You hit the thac0 and roll the %. Dead Cavalier. When you go to the middle of the DMG, it does list the XP for almost every opponent, including the asterix on those semi-deific characters like Demogorgon, Asmodeus, Bahamut, etc. However, it only has an asterix where the regular dragons are listed. It does not list the XP value. If HD equals hit dice or level, then why does a fighter at 11th level have 9 HD + 6 hit points (1HD=10die)? Why does a 16th level magic user (Mage) have 11 HD + 10 hit points (1HD=4die)? It's unclear as to how many HD you receive after 9th level for fighter classes, 11th for magic user classes, etc., but it certainly does not equate that HD is synonomous with HP. That's why I said equivalent HP to the die, or a 27th level fighter can offset Demogorgon's insanity gaze. 3eD&D does equate HD with level, but I'm not so sure about 1e or 2e. As for the assassin template, thanks, I never used an assassin, and their backstabbing methods were always a wee bit confusing.
#4 algolei_dup Aug 12, 2004 2:05:29	Nah, it's like jasper says: HD = level (or vice versa). Higher level character get set amounts of hp rather than rolling randomly, that's all. It still means a 16th-level MU (wizard) is equivalent to a 16 HD monster. The XP table jasper is referring to is on p.85 of the 1st edition DMG. It's a little difficult to use at first, but with practice you should be able to figure out the XP values for the various dragons.
#5 zombiegleemax Aug 12, 2004 8:22:13	Let's see ... looking through the DMG and found it (in with the attack matrices?). Thanks a lot guys. That item about the dragons has stymied me for the longest time. I really don't know why, but we had been using Lung Wang's XP design as his was an 8th level monster design. I see your points about the HD equals level. Even though it is a bit vague in their presentation, your suggestions sound logical. The 3.0e and 3.5e are obvious, but I'll heed your advice. Thanks again.
#6 algolei_dup Aug 13, 2004 2:04:16	Yeah, that's the area of the DMG, in around the combat tables. Getting used to one set of editions makes the other set seem a bit vague in spots. Getting used to both makes your brain turn into a charcoal briquette. :D
#7 Thailfi Aug 13, 2004 15:36:51	I always hated that a 30th level could get caught without a magic weapon and would have no chance against a wererat, but an ordinary ogre with a club would beat the wererat senseless without a problem.