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#1 guru7892 Sep 05, 2004 15:06:14	Introduction I have been thinking about how the gobliniod/giant society would work in a campaign world. And it seemed illogical for random creatures to just find a spot and stay there for several reasons. First they would be killed, orcs are no match for giants, and if the giants wanted a cave near a town they would take it in a heart beat. Also bigger creatures wouldn’t fight, raid or plunder when they could make another goblin or hobgoblin do the work. So I took it upon my self to make this essay to detail the ways a gobliniod society could work. It starts out with the low store house stuffed with things from gobliniod raids. They goblins (or kobolds) themselves are bullied into service of the larger humanoids, given the chance they will take to the road and form clans. But above the goblins there are the warriors, the people who are the trained soldiers of the pseudo army they live a good life, for they don’t have to do any thing they don’t want to (that’s what the goblins are for). Above the warriors are the commanders, the elite, they tend to answer only to the generals of the pseudo lord of the lose kingdom. Now this may not be the only way it could work, but I think it’s the most probable. Another such way a society could work would be nomadic tribes of creatures. But nomadic tribes would several difficulties in the sense that if they are caught off guard they can be conquered by a force smaller and less equipped than their own. Also nomadic tribes usually have large herd animals that they eat, but I have no clear reason why any intelligent creature wouldn’t capture and raise the creatures themselves. Applying this to a campaign world Putting this rather complicated structure into a campaign world can seem like an undertaking that will leave you asking yourself one question: do I feel lucky? Or the question: why the (insert profanity of your choice here) am I doing this? Well the simple answer is that it creates a more real world. But it also has other advantages. Some role-playing advantages include having players visit such sites and then having them persuade the people there not to do something (usually raid the nearby town or city). And for you more hack and slash guys and gals, this give you a chain of command that you can systematically rip through. You could even do a combination of hacking and role-playing with this system, if you wanted to. Either way the system presented here is a possible starting point for the complex society that creatures on the brink of near total anarchy could generate. So on to the ranks and the creatures themselves Creature ranks(example) Conscript-low classed, usually slaves(goblins) Warriors-mid classed usually brunt of an outpost/storeroom(hobgoblins) Commanders-a few run the outpost/storeroom, brunt of castle (troll/ stronger warrior) Generals-run a castle *Lord-single ruler *Barron- rules several lords *king- rules several Barons *arch-king- rules/ influences several kings, could challenge a human kingdom **and encounter may be 4-6 residents, a large encounter is usually twice the size or more (10-20 residents) Creatures listed are in the core mm ------------Conscripts kobolds goblins ------------warriors Orcs Hobgoblins Gnoll Ogre Bugbear ------------Commanders Minotaur Troll ------------Generals Hill giants Attach **Lords and so forth should be provided by you mostly because they are rather powerful, and/or are stronger than the average creatures. Places (aprox. Encounters/ types) -Outpost- small, pays tribute, not much stuff (1-2) -Storehouse/fort-houses areas guarded (10) -Keep- defends key territory/staging area, may double as store house (10) -*Castle- higher level area usually has head of operations (15-20) -*Stronghold- a highly defended area, siege weapons should be used to assault 20-40[possibly several large encounters]dragon/big-critter w/pc levels) -*Citadel- a true lord worthy of a kingdom resides here, without an army it cant be taken (50+)[possibly all encounters are large] *asterisked places are only apparent when only very few pseudo-lords, they may not be apparent under the rule of rather new lords. Also a lot of organization is needed for these places to exist. Details on Places Here is a more detailed explanation of the places above: Outposts Outposts are small forts that generally serve as lookouts for larger areas, or small staging areas for raids on trade roads. They may also be setup by a road and sell the service of a small group of cavalry that carries banners and offers safe passage (cavalry made of goblinoids). Usually they are expensive but the keep raiders (and other creatures) from attacking the caravan. The city guards may attack these forts or welcome them, but many creatures lack the organization to set the outposts up by road sides and do more than collect a toll. Store houses Store house are the small dungeons that are used for story loot. Although they have a military garrison, they usually aren’t used for the military reasons of raids but they may be used for gathering supplies (in a more domestic sort of way). Forts Forts generally are either above ground wooden structures or easily defended caves. They usually have light siege weapons guarding the entrance, and the populace knows how to fight. Keeps Keeps are like a storehouse and a fort all in one. They are either more or less self sufficient, and they have a large military population. Often they support storehouses, forts and outposts. This is done by providing military support or food, or lodging (respectively). Castles This is like a keep, but more so. Its capable launching assaults on other areas, collecting food from raids or other methods, supporting other keeps, and defending itself. This place often is much more defensive than a keep, and it may have a supply of heavy siege engines and a good supply of light ones. Often generals or minor lords may reside here and it isn’t easily taken. Strongholds and Citadels Strongholds are the paragon of the goblinoid empires. They are not only self sufficient but they can raise armies, destroy kingdoms, and employ complex siege engines many people have never seen. They can even produce some magical weaponry. These places are very scarce, but where they do exist, not even the most arrogant kings will attack them. The warriors in these places may easily fight off any conscripted forces and they often find raiding and pillaging nearby towns a pass-time, destroying cities a job, and uprooting a kingdom an undertaking. Although because of there power they may be a little arrogant but then again they have a good reason to. Oh and citadels are even more so… Notes on running things Often small places exchange control and sometimes allegiances aren’t always clear. Rebellions and wars are all but common place in the total chaos of this pseudo-feudal world. The only real thing that can be known for sure is that if you posses power, people will either follow you, or seize the power for them-selves and only when one has enough power that nobody disputes him or her, will there be any order. But even that is a fantasy… Building off the system Now although goblinoids and giants seem to be the brunt of the whole mess here you could expand it to encompass other chaos aligned creatures. The first that comes to mind is the demons. Now obviously they are going to be much more militaristic (because of the blood war) and you may not always have outpost because demons aren’t the tax collecting type. So anyway, here’s a quick run of the demon’s chain of command: Demon chain of command *this is just a guideline, some demons may be more powerful than others and thus hold different positions* ------------Conscripts Dretch quasit ------------warriors Succubus Bebilith-hard to keep in check- ------------Commanders Vrock hezrou ------------Generals marilith -----------Lord Advanced marilith balor --------------------Barron- rules several lords Advanced balors ---------------------king and arch-king Highly advanced balors or demons of your creation. Afterwards Well, I bet you never thought anyone would think this much about how this would work. But I believe that if you can’t make a world that could exist, it doesn’t. But I also want to note that I have only included creatures from the core monster manual, and although I may add more creatures for all you who buy Wizards of the Coast products. Also I’m open to any suggestion you may have, but if you think its impossible that any group chaotic goblinoid creatures could result into this mess, don’t post, pm me, I want to explain myself without creating a big flaming mess, or a bunch of posts that take days to read.
#2 zombiegleemax Sep 24, 2004 9:49:35	Nice thread. Actually, your work reminds me of the detailed orcish societies of Middle-Earth as described in the MERP-game. There, the orcish society was based on power - naturally. The lowest class were the common orcs - miners, workers, sword-fodder. The live and die for their masters. Their life is short, brutal and miserable - even for orcish standards. Above them stand those common orcs who have shown that they are more useful than the common rabble. For example, skilled scouts, expert craftsmen, or common soldiers with experience and potential, thereby becoming low ranking officers. Even higher stand the Uruk-Hai, the elite class. Born stronger and smarter than common orks, they easily dominate their lesser brethren. However, their numbers are small. They normally do nothing else than ruling and fighting, the latter either as officers or in special units, for example a royal bodyguard. At the peak of the social order is the tribal chieftain, who is always an Uruk. Most often, he is the strongest warrior of the tribe. He rules with an iron fist - until he is replaced by a stronger chief, or falls prey to one of the many dangers orcs have to face in this cruel world. Non-Orcs fill somewhat special roles. Slaves, obviously, are even lower than common orcs. Allies - Trolls, Giants, Wargs, Wolves, giant bats, etc. - are mainly left alone, having their own living spaces in the lair complex. They often answer only to specific orcs. For example, the Troll guard might only take orders from the chieftain himself, while only the evil priests are accustomed to the giant bats.