In your best Grand Pa Simpson voice
" I remember 1st ed. We called it AD&D back then.
and another thing...
Halflings, those little buggers, Tolkein made up..they could only be fighters or thieves, fighter/thieves. That was the way it was...and we liked it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Didn;t have any of yer kits and multiclassing longhairs! If you wanted to play two classes you had to do it the HARD way! With LEVEL limits, and class restrictions... None of yer Dwarven mages!
And BARDS Let me tell you... If you wanted to be a bard, you had to do three classes, one at a time!
You young punks! Still wet behind the ears...
don't waste your money on that Dragon magazine.
the only people who can afford that are kids with rich parents, and besides it's a fad, it will never catch on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
with no save ...
and if he got too "preachy" we just told the local vampire about him. After that, the medevial medic would keep his mouth shut and healin coming.
If you met an NPC who was a tiefling, you killed him, you didn't go adventuring with him.
and lastly, paladins are only human and lawful good - ALL THE TIME.
Halflings were the best thieves. yes i said thieves!!!!!!
although halflings were lawful good, and they made the best thieves.
the thief class didn't allow a thief to be LG.
That perfect sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Wedge_Hammersteel
[b]and we fought orcs, kobolds, and goblins; not 18th level fighter kobold/half dragons, advanced dire bears/half dragons, and such.
:D
Yeah, we knew about them, we didn't tell anybody. Why? None of your $$%$^ business!!!!!!!!!
We had a ranger in our party. thought of himself as a woodsman. He wore heavy armor carried a long sword and a shield. Come to think of it, he never ventured in the woods, never scouted, never spied for us...hmmmmm............what the heck made him a ranger??????????????
More sayings and thoughts from the "old fuddy-duddy" is a comin.
Originally posted by beavis123
I don't hate it, but for the "old fuddy-duddies" out there who swear 1st ed was the best, and everything else is "crap" are funny to me.
Well that's up to each individual to decide; its like music, there is no objective truth to it. So to each his own ... I don't think you'll be changing anyone's minds. That's what bugs me about 3e players, like the rest of us owe it to them to buy and play their edition so it doesn't die. No we don't. If we think it sucks we're not going to buy it, and that's all there is to it; and if we like earlier editions best, that's our business.
I don't see any OOP players in the 3e forums haranguing those players about what a silly "power gamer" edition lacking imagination it is, do you? No, they only get that when they come here and preach about it. And rightly so.
and another thing....
in our edition magic-users couldn't wear metal armor, cause it messed up their spells!!!!!!!
but if you were a fighter/ magic-user in metal armor you could casts spells.....
That makes perfect sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
back in the day we feared fireballs, lightning bolts and dragons breathe because the DM would cheerfully look up the item saving throw tables. i ended many a campaign where my character walked out of the dungeon wearing only a smile and a salvaged orc sword...
first they named the places they hid their treasure scary names like
The Tomb of Horrors, Caves of Chaos, Maze of Madness.
unfortunatly this attracted more adventures...so they hid in places called...
The Tomb is love, Caves of happiness, Maze of Hugs and kisses!!!!!!
Sarta
Just cuz there's half-elves don't mean that every species in the multiverse can crossbreed!
You know what you used to get when you crossed an elf with an ogre?
An ogre with elf-hair stuck between his teeth!
You young punks!
And Devils! We used to call em devils back then, none of this Tanri-Baatezu whatsis stuff!
Asmodeus was a DEVIL. Fallen from heaven, etc... not some sorta tourist from another dimension!
Originally posted by Yorlum
..And BARDS Let me tell you... If you wanted to be a bard, you had to do three classes, one at a time!
......
In a Lisa simson voice, oh quit lying grandpa we both know the dm told you could bring a 3rd level bard in and you spend wednesday night rolling him up.
Originally posted by Yorlum
And don't you get me started on buying magic items at stores! You want a scroll, go kill something!
in bart simpson voice, yea gramps that is why you had one of all the magic items because raided the goddess of magic storeroom when you were first level and there was only a fifth level wizard guarding it who had a 25% chance of being asleep.
Originally posted by jasper
in bart simpson voice, yea gramps that is why you had one of all the magic items because raided the goddess of magic storeroom when you were first level and there was only a fifth level wizard guarding it who had a 25% chance of being asleep.
LOL
The ranger was a guardian of the woods with his faithful companion by his/her side, no that was the druid!!!!!
The ranger was a guy in metal armor who could cast magic-user spells, no that was the fighter/magic-user!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ranger was the woodsman, jungle boy, artic survivor, no that was the barbarian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wait a second, who the heck was that guy??????!!!!!!!!????
Human Fighter
Human Cleric
Half-Elven Ranger
Dwarven Fighter
Elven Magic-User/Thief
Halfling Thief
didn't need any nutty stuff, play the same thing every time, and that was fun!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by beavis123
now adays every character could be every class. back in our day, this is what a party looked like
Human Fighter
Human Cleric
Half-Elven Ranger
Dwarven Fighter
Elven Magic-User/Thief
Halfling Thief
bah...in my daye... a party looked like:
Human Fighting Man
Human Cleric
Human Magic-user
Human Fighting Man
Human linkboy to carry the torch and Human hireling to cook the meals.
they didn't have any of these new fangled thieves or variant Fighting Men or variant Magic-users or variant Clerics.
possibly you picked up a Hobbit, an Elf, or a Dwarf...but not likely. Hobbits became a Sheriff and retired early. and Elves well they were fickle. One minute they chose to play at being a Fighting Man and the next, well they thought they could be a Magic-user. They had to choose between the two. and you know what it is like to wait for an Elf to make a decision.
That was realistic!!!!!!!!!!
None of this " I want to pick my own skills, be my own kind of thief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
You wanna be your own kind of thief, who do you think you are E Gary Gygax!!!!!!!!"
Originally posted by beavis123
back in our day the thief (yeah i said thief) class advanced the each level in his thieving skills like every other thief in the game!!
That was realistic!!!!!!!!!!
None of this " I want to pick my own skills, be my own kind of thief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
You wanna be your own kind of thief, who do you think you are E Gary Gygax!!!!!!!!"
Well, at least we all advanced at reasonable paces, unlike you Young Punks who all need the same points to advance a level...
Who wants to be a thief anymore? You advance no faster than a fighter or a wizard, your skills aren't exclusive, and you can't cast spells and your attack sux.
Bah!
Wow! Not only do I go back in time with the 1e/2e reference. I go way back for an obscure early 80s fantasy movie reference. Probably the least know Arnold Schwarzenegger movie out there.
Although he/she wore light armor and didn't carry a shield and the bow was perfect for them, they couldn't use it. What are you crazy!!!!!!!!!
But the thief was the ultimate trap finder. If he/she made the ridiculous low roll, he found it. If he didn't make the roll, he found it the other way. Kaboom, Thud, splat!!!
That's when we yelled "Medic!!!!!"
Originally posted by Thailfi
Back in my day we had reasonable racial class and level restrictions. No silly little halfling monks running around like that stupid little kid in the movie "Red Sonja".
Wow! Not only do I go back in time with the 1e/2e reference. I go way back for an obscure early 80s fantasy movie reference. Probably the least know Arnold Schwarzenegger movie out there.
Nope. Try "Hercules in New York"
Red Sonja was made after Conan, so I think most of the diehards remember it...
Originally posted by beavis123
The thief ( yeah i said thief, get over it) was a lousy fighter, couldn't cast a spell, and couldn't heal or turn undead. In fact, in 1st ed, the only ed, they couldn't even use a short bow.
Although he/she wore light armor and didn't carry a shield and the bow was perfect for them, they couldn't use it. What are you crazy!!!!!!!!!
But the thief was the ultimate trap finder. If he/she made the ridiculous low roll, he found it. If he didn't make the roll, he found it the other way. Kaboom, Thud, splat!!!
That's when we yelled "Medic!!!!!"
Slings worked fine for thieves. Bows were for elves and other long-hairs. Makes it hard too skulk about with the GD thing over your shoulder. Of course back then, we worried about how things like that would FIT with our PC's, rather than just slapping on the *best* equipment.
Punks.
that stuff came from movies and books. Our game was based on .......uhhh.. movies and books!!???!!!
What the heck was my point????
Originally posted by beavis123
back in our day you could only attack once per round, not this attack of opportunity crap!!!!!
that stuff came from movies and books. Our game was based on .......uhhh.. movies and books!!???!!!
What the heck was my point????
Sorry to say, but attacks of opportunity came from video games, not movies and books. Watch Fafhrd and Grey Mouser in a fight, and it was a series of "Fafhrd did this, and the bad guy did that, etc" Not, "I chomp my Power Pill and go into a whirlwind mode."
and back then, all we had was Pong.
Mario killed D&D!
Yeah, those crazy video games. Ruined our game!!!!
We had pong, and we were happy!!!!!!!!!!
That's why you see Pong played all around the world today!!!
and another thing don't get me started on attacks...... soon i will explain to you the THACO....don't know what that is?????
young pups, I tell you what it is, as soon as I remember..
THACO....To Hit an Armidillo from Close ON....no that ain't it
We had 12 different kinds of pole-arms! Nobody knew what the differenct was, and nobody used them. No one really even knew how to pronounce the names. But by golly we loved them.
When he found out, all he said was " My God is going to be
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Originally posted by beavis123
Yeah, those crazy video games. Ruined our game!!!!
We had pong, and we were happy!!!!!!!!!!
That's why you see Pong played all around the world today!!!
Pong was "in' longer than any of these flavor of the month games you get nowadays.
Come to think of it, so did 1st ed...
Originally posted by Thailfi
Back in my day you had straight forward magic items. You got your +3 long sword and you were happy. Now you got your silly keen, flaming burst, dancing, shocking, returning, explosive diarrhea causing, battle axe of strength boosting.
:D
bizzare weapons !!!!!!!!!!
Bizzare character combos!!!!!!!!!!!!
what is this??? A fantasy role-playing game????????
You had to send your magic-user (the one with low hit points, no armor and a lousy attack roll) right up to the monster to touch it.
Of course, the magic-user missed the roll, and the monster seeing this strange little human ( I think our magic-user's name was Edge-something) trying touch him. The monster thought he was some kind of pervert and whacked him over the head.
The fighters took the opportunity on that round and hit the distracted monster.
After the battle, we again yelled Medic!!!!!!!
Great Spell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those were the days! I can remember taking on a whole herd of Flumphs with my Bohemian Ear-Spoon, and I can tell you I didn't need no Great Cleave Attacks of Opportunity to take 'em all out, neither!
And another thing...APOSTROPHES! We didn't need 'em back then! We had the "PLAYERS HANDBOOK" and the "DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE" and we LIKED it! Not like these spoiled kids today who need apostrophes in all their book titles!
D.
Didn't need any cool new abilities.
I advanced a level in fighter and got the title "Swordsman".
I told the DM, "But I use a battle axe. Can I use the title " axeman" instead of "swordsman".
The DM said no. The book said swordsman.
Every town we went to asked me who I was. i replied " a swordsman". "Why do use an axe????"
" Because, I'm an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Darn 1st ed rules!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by beavis123
back in our day, when we advanced a level, you got a hit die and some lower attack rolls and saving throws. But the thing we most cherished was the Title.
Didn't need any cool new abilities.
I advanced a level in fighter and got the title "Swordsman".
I told the DM, "But I use a battle axe. Can I use the title " axeman" instead of "swordsman".
The DM said no. The book said swordsman.
Every town we went to asked me who I was. i replied " a swordsman". "Why do use an axe????"
" Because, I'm an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Darn 1st ed rules!!!!!!!!!!!
It beats me! I had to tell people that I ws a 'Cutpurse'.
NPC: "Name?"
Me. "Finieous the Cutpurse"
NPC: "Guards!"
And for some reason nobody wanted to let me stay at their inns!
Originally posted by Thailfi
Back in my day we had reasonable racial class and level restrictions. No silly little halfling monks running around like that stupid little kid in the movie "Red Sonja".
Back in those days 95% of all campaigns ended before the level limits were reached. There was no reason to play a human, unless you could get the ridiculous 17 Cha...which did very little for your character.
Originally posted by Myrridin
Back in those days 95% of all campaigns ended before the level limits were reached. There was no reason to play a human, unless you could get the ridiculous 17 Cha...which did very little for your character.
What? It got them all the dates they could hope for! Or maybe it was the three hirelings wheeling the gold pieces in behind him...
Which seems ironic in view of later accusations of D&D encouraging Satanism.
D
Originally posted by beavis123
thank you Gary Gygax.
and another thing....
in our edition magic-users couldn't wear metal armor, cause it messed up their spells!!!!!!!
but if you were a fighter/ magic-user in metal armor you could casts spells.....
That makes perfect sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Allowing a magic-user to cast while wearing armor is stupid.
Where in the nine hells did the magic-user learned to cast while encumbered in an armor ? In his library ?
Less time in library, in his books and more in a battlesuit ??
Armor and weapons were not the interest of real and competent magic-users in 1st ed. That makes perfect sense to me!
Originally posted by Drexlorn
Allowing a magic-user to cast while wearing armor is stupid.
Where in the nine hells did the magic-user learned to cast while encumbered in an armor ? In his library ?
Less time in library, in his books and more in a battlesuit ??
Armor and weapons were not the interest of real and competent magic-users in 1st ed. That makes perfect sense to me!
Actually, I could see some logic in this, inasmuch as elves are longer-lived, they could take the years needed to learn such things. Of course, they are supposed to be somewhat frivolous and flighty, so long study is not their forte [the logic behind their level limts, IIRC].
Also, elven magic, IMC is not the same as human, so the elements needed to cast spells can be less somatic.
But then again, I've had a quarter-century to rationalize a decision that Gygax probably made in a quarter second back in the seventies!
Originally posted by SputnikCorp
ahhh, the house rules. we had house rules as far as the eye could see. my own group had 827 pages of house rules. everything was covered, from chance of random encounters when our characters went to the washroom, to personal PC hygeine problems and their effect on diplomacy. see, we rolled everything on a d30 back then, so we had charts...*drools*chaaarts....
Heh. Now those are all canon, in one of the many $ourcebooks, each $old $eperately...
Back in those days 95% of all campaigns ended before the level limits were reached.
That would be news to our group. In the 23 year history of our group, we have had exactly one campaign. The only time we forsee ending this campaign is when we decide to switch to another edition some years from now.
No character has ever been retired except by the choice of the player. I have at least 4 characters that I have been running for at least 18 years. I currently have active characters that are the grandchildren of my original character.
Back to the topic.
Back in my day, if the DM wanted to approve a character class, he only had to look in one place, the Player's Handbook. Now, he has to have 27 different versions of the Complete Guide to Munchkins.
Back in my day if you wanted to look up a reference you had to leaf through the books until you found it. Indices are for wussies. That is why the 1e indices never gave you a proper page reference.
-EE
Heavy Metal
Theirs:
Dragonball Z
If you bred a half-orc with an orc you got a 3/4 orc or a 1 1/2 orc.
We once tried to cross an elf with an ugly stinky troll.
After a few weeks of trying, we had to give up.
We had to accept there just was somethings a troll wouldn't do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by beavis123
Back in our day, we didn't cross-breed everything under the sun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you bred a half-orc with an orc you got a 3/4 orc or a 1 1/2 orc.
We once tried to cross an elf with an ugly stinky troll.
After a few weeks of trying, we had to give up.
We had to accept there just was somethings a troll wouldn't do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like I said before. Cross an ogre with an elf and you get an ogre with elf-hair stuck between his teeth!
Originally posted by beavis123
back in our day you could only attack once per round, not this attack of opportunity crap!!!!!
that stuff came from movies and books. Our game was based on .......uhhh.. movies and books!!???!!!
In a bart simpson voice. Yea right grampa. they why is this prune juice stained character states that your archer has 5/2 because you double specialized in a bow.
yea gramps but you movies used the stop top jerky motion for monsters. Our cool monster are now computer generated.
Any real D&D player knew 2e weapon specialization was crap! If you wanted an archer, you played the 1e archer class from Dragon Magazine (Best of, Volume III). None of this 5/2 stuff, no sir, from 1st - 6th an archer got 2/round, 7th and above got 3/round. Throw in all the big bonuses that an archer got, not to mention a dexterity and strength bonus, plus some minor magic (archers added +1 to all magic bows and arrows they used, don't ya know) and a halfway decent archer was +15 to hit and damage on all three attacks by 10th level.
Hands Thailfi his dentures.
in bart simpson voice, what was that ? Using stuff not in the books and then complaining about power gamers today?
Originally posted by jasper
what was that ? Using stuff not in the books [/b]
Yeah ... we used to call that good DMing ... go figure ...
Please be civil. Thank you!!!
Bring those points coming, they are funny!!!!!!
you played the 1e archer class from Dragon Magazine
Played? No using the past tense here. There are a few active archer characters in our campaign, including one that was in our adventure just last Saturday.
Of course it would all get melted down if (when!) you got hit by fireballs and the like. Ah, the days of fun after your 12th level "hero" lost everything to a fireball - and had to go on a half-dozen easy adventures in a desparate attempt to regain some stuff.
And you'd hold onto wands forever! Who cares if it has 99 charges? You can't buy one, and you certainly can't make one - it might be the only one you'll ever see! Who knows when you'll need it? You should save it!
And you'd get fractional attacks/round. Nothing like 3/2 attacks. First you make one, then two, then one...
Best of all, there were none of these uneducated "Is X prestige class broken?" arguments. We were so l33t that our arguments were all "does the d6 damage/10 feet accurately represent falling damage?" followed by arcane biophysics arguments involving acceleration, terminal velocity, and soft tissue damage so involved that non-geeks never cluttered our arguments with their inane non-contributions...
-Shaftiel
I went through CAMPAIGNS where the whole party didn't get 20 items!
We had a name for games like yours.
Monty Hauls.
Sometimes it is necessary to load your characters up with magic items. Before I ran the giant series, I made darn sure the magic-user had a cube of force and one of the fighters had the girdle of giant strength, gauntlets of ogre power, hammer of thunderbolts combo. It just isn't possible to survive those dungeons with characters anywhere close to the stated levels, without a lot of magic items unless you have an extremely bad DM that runs the bad guys like morons and gives the players all kind of breaks.
Originally posted by Thailfi
[b]The technical definition of Monty Haul campaigns is one where magic items are given out willy-nilly without the characters having earned them and the challenge of the encounters is not sufficient to adequately threaten the characters. You have no idea whether or not that is the case with his campaign.
Actually, I do. He says it himself that he 'haul in magic by the truckload'. And don't tell me that ANY character can *earn* 20+ magic items, and only be at 6th level! If he earned them, his level would have been higher from the kills if nothing else.
Fortunatley, everything we owned back then was magical. The magic-user (yes magic-user) (was he a sorcerer or a wizard...I don't know!!) cast a detect magic. The room lit up like a roman candle!
However this is just my opinion. I am still searching for that technical definition.
Originally posted by Elendur
While the current understanding of 'Monty Haul' is a game overloaded with magic items and treasure, I suspect the origin of the phrase also had to do with the design of dungeons back in the day; they tended to be a series of doors with either bad stuff(monsters) or good stuff(loot). Anyone who remembers the show 'Let's make a deal' will see the similarity.
However this is just my opinion. I am still searching for that technical definition.
Nope. IN Gygax's words, it was a Huge reward for no effort, akin to the contestants on the show.
A: Monty Hall was the host of the 60's & 70's, and 90's American game show _Let's Make a Deal_. People would dress up in silly costumes, then be chosen out of the crowd to play the game. Monty would give the lucky contestant a handful of money, then talk them into trading the money for whatever was behind door number one, door number two, door number three, or what was in the box, or they could just keep the money. Each time they traded, he would give them another choice.
After they decided to stick with a choice, Monty revealed what had been won. Prizes could be anything, good or bad, such as money, cars, jewelry, a years supply of auto wax, goats, inner tubes, exotic vacations, a pound of confetti, etc. Gary Gygax named the style of play where game masters hid treasures behind some doors, monsters behind others and then let the players choose their fate "Monty Haul" gaming, making a pun on the game show host's name.
The term has come to be used to refer to sessions where game masters encourage munchkin players; basically any game can be considered a Monty Haul game where the game master sets up unfathomable amounts of treasure and earth-shattering magic items guarded by weak and wimpy monsters, thus giving enormous amounts of power to beginning-level characters.
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/games/roleplay/dnd/part5/
[hmmm ... sounds like 3e level advancement ....]
Originally posted by Edgewaters
Yeah ... we used to call that good DMing ... go figure ...
in Lisa simpson voice.. But Auntie Edgewaters isn't what some people think of GOOD DMing, other people think is munckin?
Originally posted by jasper
in Lisa simpson voice.. But Auntie Edgewaters isn't what some people think of GOOD DMing, other people think is munckin?
Nope!
Munchkins are players who abuse the rules, not a DM, who defines the world...
Now siddown and let us old-timers talk!
Thank the Gods, characters today are alot smarter than us!!!
Next, I talk about the ThACO whatever the heck that was!!
In the old days...we actually played RPGs with a pencil, paper, rulebooks and dice. Not on the computer or console.
In the old days Rangers meant Rangers...Doctors were Doctors, Lawyers were Lawyers, and Fighters were fighters...who probably killed the Lawyers, and didn't need the doctors because they had a Cleric, which was a Cleric, to heal them.
None of this...I'm a Lawyer/Doctor/Rocket Scientist with a bucket load of PhDs and did it all in one year!
We had a maximum of +5 of magic weapons...none of this +15, well, sometimes perhaps, but then if a weapon had a +15, it also had a dire curse along with it, like the first time you use it, you die, since it will undoubtably be an artifact.
And did I tell you about Assassins. Assassins were no fool prestige class, Assassins were full blown figures all to themselves, And if enough were after you, even if they were first level...you would almost assuredly die...you didn't pick fights with the Assassin's guild and live (well, at least most of the time).
We had Cavaliers that were horsemen from birth, none of this trying to earn your way into it. We played in dictatorships and monarchys where nobility actually meant something...no Cavalier prestige class, it was all or nothing, you either had it...or you didn't.
And Rangers, Rangers where not sissies with only 1d8 HP at first level, or even 1d10, they had a whooping 2d8 HP at first level! They had magic and druidic spells at higher levels, and no restirctions on their armor, they were woodsmen, but heck, they were also warriors, and took their business very seriously! And they would have laughed at the two weapon fighting men, and picked them off at long range with their longbows!
Just adding a few.
Originally posted by beavis123
Shocking Grasp!!! Now there was a spell!!!!
You had to send your magic-user (the one with low hit points, no armor and a lousy attack roll) right up to the monster to touch it.
Of course, the magic-user missed the roll, and the monster seeing this strange little human ( I think our magic-user's name was Edge-something) trying touch him. The monster thought he was some kind of pervert and whacked him over the head.
The fighters took the opportunity on that round and hit the distracted monster.
After the battle, we again yelled Medic!!!!!!!
Great Spell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which is different from the 3E version of Shocking Grasp in exactly what way?
Originally posted by SputnikCorp
the d12 you say? well, in my day we used the d12 for...for...uh... *scratches head*...large creature damage for long swords!
Also good for Barbarian Hit Points.
Dwarves were perfect for barbarians but only humans could be these things. That goes for paladins, and monks.
Don't get any ideas either. Those other versions are donkey-do!!!
d12 = if you were lucky enough to encounter an angry samurai from kara-tur, you could use the d12 to roll the damage of his great katana cleaving you and your horse in half.
every time the DM asked you to make a saving throw...you first asked...why? before he even said it was for poison or magic wands or what have you. because a failed saving throw kills! or does full damage, which means you fry, melt, disintegrate, become controlled, die, lose a level, become a mouse...nothing good happens when you fail a saving throw then.
now, you shrug, roll the die and laugh at the pathetic results.
then you could get a ranger with bow weapon mastery to get a 5/2 attack, give him boots of haste, quiver of ellohna and you get = Legolas in LOTR movie
If you were crazy enough to want two sword ability, the penalties murdered you, as it should be!
They couldn't be paladins, rangers, barbarians, druids, magic-users, or bards!! That was left for the humans and elves.
Why does this game keep creating new elf races??? How many stinking elves do you need??
They now have sun elves, moon elves, and silver elves ( I think).
Soon they'll have computer elves, beer elves, samari elves with a kung fu grip!!!
I am still upset about the THACO. It's been 15 years and I still haven't figured it out!!!
Originally posted by jasper
IN a Bart Simpson voice, "because Gramps some of you old fuddy duddys created them, shared them, or were hired by Wotc. And you think us kids need every thing very simply explained. Which is boring!"
The wrong old timers were hired, that's all I gotta say.
Dollars to Do-Nuts that Gugax and Arneson could have written a better 3rd ed than was produced.
Did some of these weak characters die easily? Sure, but that was okay because it took maybe FIVE MINUTES to roll up another character. Not several weeks of calculations and online consultation with experts to “build” a character. And when one of these weaker characters did manage to survive and advance, it was something to really be proud of. The character survived because you had PLAYED WELL, not because he started out with eighteens and nineteens in all abilites.
And we actually started characters at first level and worked our way up. Some of our greatest adventures involved low-level characters and a couple giant rats, or a giant spider or two. We didn’t START at tenth level “just to make it more fun” and immediately start attacking the nearest demogorgon.
And we didn't have to mess around with a mountain of feats and skills. The reason the game has a DM is so you don't NEED rules that cover every possible situation and interaction. Back in our day, feats and skills were called ROLEPLAYING. If we wanted to seduce the baron's daughter, we went ahead and seduced the baron's daughter. We didn't "roll a seduction check with charisma bonus against the baron's daughters virginity DC."
And it didn't take ten minutes to run one round of combat while everyone did backflips and whirlwinds and attacks of opportunity. You attacked. The monster attacked. You attacked. The monster attacked. Sometimes you lost initiative, and then it was: The monster attacked. You attacked. The monster attacked. You attacked. Got it?
And, get this, in the early days of D&D there WAS NO INTERNET! Try to get your mind around that you young whippersnappers! NO INTERNET! (only had the arpanet, and maybe some local BBS that you could dial into - learn your history!)
No internet meant that you BOUGHT the rule books you wanted, PERIOD. You didn’t download them, or trade PDF's with you friends. You BOUGHT them.
And if you didn’t understand a rule, you FIGURED IT OUT FOR YOURSELF. There was no online errata, or a message board where you could get other player's opinion. You used your mind and your imagination and you talked it over with your players and decided how the rule should work. You didn't run to the boards and post another "my DM is cheating me" thread.
Oh, and it's STRENGTH, INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, DEXTERITY, CONSTITUTION and CHARISMA. You can even add COMELINESS if you want, but at least keep them in the proper order!
Harumph!
:D
Originally posted by Transit
Oh, and it's STRENGTH, INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, DEXTERITY, CONSTITUTION and CHARISMA. You can even add COMELINESS if you want, but at least keep them in the proper order!
back in my day it was...
strength, intelligence, wisdom, constitution, dexterity, charisma. in that order.
you later guys (after 1977) switched it up.
and then tried to add a new stat.
Originally posted by diaglo
back in my day it was...
strength, intelligence, wisdom, constitution, dexterity, charisma. in that order.
you later guys (after 1977) switched it up.
and then tried to add a new stat.
Not a later guy. Started playing in '75. Never allowed comeliness in my games when it came along, but I'll let the young-uns use it if they must. Guess I'm getting soft in my old age.
As for misremembering the original order of abilities, I must be getting Alzheimers. Guess I'll dig out my woodgrain boxed set and double check.
Originally posted by Transit
As for misremembering the original order of abilities, I must be getting Alzheimers. Guess I'll dig out my woodgrain boxed set and double check.
i believe you are confusing it with 1edADnD. the order you listed was right for 1edADnD. it was also different for BasicD&D. Holmes, Cook, Moldvay, Mentzer, Alliston.....
Originally posted by diaglo
i believe you are confusing it with 1edADnD. the order you listed was right for 1edADnD. it was also different for BasicD&D. Holmes, Cook, Moldvay, Mentzer, Alliston.....
Quite so. I started OD&D, then switched my stats when I decided I was too cool to not be "Advanced".
Either Way, SIWDCCh, or SIWCDCh, he's got the Right Idea...
Originally posted by beavis123
I am still upset about the THACO. It's been 15 years and I still haven't figured it out!!!
In the old days, people who didn't pass 1st grade math (or 20 - whatever the AC was, as simple as 20 - 5 = 15) were NOT typically allowed to play in games of 2ed.
That's okay, because I played 1ed and then as DM it didn't matter what they thought, if they thought they were all smart and all, and knew what they needed to roll to hit...heck, I'd change it, cause heck...I WAS THE DM.
Oh, they have that rule in later editions...but back then it was LAW...rules lawyers were given the smackdown by the DM...
And if they wouldn't shut up still...the DM would blink...and poof, their character would vanish into nothingness!
Originally posted by diaglo
back in my day it was...
strength, intelligence, wisdom, constitution, dexterity, charisma. in that order.
you later guys (after 1977) switched it up.
and then tried to add a new stat.
Hey, same in my day! They changed it?
Oh well, houserules, I kept it the same.
PS: Just checked and you're right! In OA, 2ed, and 3ed they are in a different order...heck I suppose I just ignored the order they were in those books all these years in favor of the one I started out using!
I may be a little
on the change between OD&D and 1E but I still stick to my original curmudgeonly fuddy-duddy point. Kids these days have got their abilities in the wrong order!And what's with these dice that have the numbers already marked on them!? Don't you kids have crayons?
:D
But I remember it pretty well:The order was:
- Strength
- Intelligence
- Wisdom
- Dexterity
- Constitution
- Charisma
and later, after UA: - Comliness
S: 16
I: 9
W: 11
D: 16
C: 17
CH: 16
4d6, drop lowest, rolled in order, rolled in front of the DM and other players.
Co: 14
Gear:
Sword
Dagger
Morningstar
Longbow (although this may have been bought after the first adventure or two. I forget.)
Chainmail
Shield
Quiver
20 Arrows (10 silver-tipped)
Backpack
Wineskin
Iron Rations
5 Torches
50' Rope
Hammer
Spikes
Belt Pouch
Garlic
Wolvesbane
Belt Pouch
Flask of Oil
Phial of Holy Water
Tinderbox w/Flint & Steel
10' Pole
Originally posted by Transit
If we wanted to seduce the baron's daughter, we went ahead and seduced the baron's daughter. We didn't "roll a seduction check with charisma bonus against the baron's daughters virginity DC."
W3rd.
Wineskin
Iron Rations
That's right...back in my day we didn't have waterskins, just wineskins. And our rations were made out of iron, and that's how we liked it dagnabbit!
Also we didn't have prestige classes!!!.. What's so prestigious if everyone is a prestige class anyhow???
I wanted to be a Knight of the Rose. I told the DM what I wanted, he made me a Knight of the Road. He said, " Now hit it!!!"
And we didn't have any of these newfangled "game stores" with their rows of computers you can rent by the hour. If you wanted to buy a book you went to your local bookstore and prayed they had it, and that they even knew what Dungeons and Dragons was... And didn't call you a satan-worshipper! You walked uphill both ways, in the snow! If they didn't have it in, you begged them to order it for you, then went home and rolled up random dungeons until they got it!!!
And we liked it that way!!!!!111!!!!!oneoneone!!!1!
And we liked it! Nowdays you can't even find hex paper.
When our multiclassed characters advanced a level, they got a fraction of a hit die like any decent f/m-u or whatever.
But DICE!, That's another thing! We didn't have any of your boring one colored sets of dice, no sir!
We had a White d20, half colored so's we could tell a 4 from a 14.
We had a Blue d12
a Green d8
an Orange d6
a Yellow d4
and NONE of yer fancy-schmancy d10, nosir! If it wasn't a regular Polyhedron, we didn't use it!!
and We LIKED it that way!
Now I have a small library, 2 pc's gave away my laptop (it ran the 2nd ed D&D games), software up the ying yang... good grief.
Originally posted by 7718Reed
Hay old-timers, how many of yer could put yer D&D in a backpack and play at a friend's house without a fancy CAR or PC, when PC meant Player Character....
Bart simpson voice, "only if backpack was military backpack you had your players hangbook, monster manual one, two, fiend folio, deities and demigods, unearthed Arcana, wildness survival guide, dungeonner survival guide, manual of the planes, the four two screens, dragons issues 1- 75, best of dragon 1-4, d20's which went from 0-9 twice, What else was there grandpa simpson?"
Originally posted by Thailfi
That would be news to our group. In the 23 year history of our group, we have had exactly one campaign. The only time we forsee ending this campaign is when we decide to switch to another edition some years from now.
No character has ever been retired except by the choice of the player. I have at least 4 characters that I have been running for at least 18 years. I currently have active characters that are the grandchildren of my original character.
Back to the topic.
Back in my day, if the DM wanted to approve a character class, he only had to look in one place, the Player's Handbook. Now, he has to have 27 different versions of the Complete Guide to Munchkins.
Back in my day if you wanted to look up a reference you had to leaf through the books until you found it. Indices are for wussies. That is why the 1e indices never gave you a proper page reference.
charts
in my day we had thaco,and the dm had to ask me every rule cause i was the only one who knew them.none of this new fangled rules that dont use a system for every other thing.