The Single Class DnD d20 System

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

cthascott

Jan 30, 2008 18:37:21
The basic premise for this sytem is to "purchase" your character via Character Points allowing every single imaginable build without sacrificing balance and ease of play. Please just skim through the first few posts to get a general understanding and feel free to ask questions or pose situational problems with the system so I can make it better. This is the system my group has been using for some time with modifications added as necessary. I'm always looking for fresh looks and new interpretations with constructive criticism. I'm very interested in your opinions. If you read all the way through, then thanks. ~Cthascott

The Single Class Dungeons and Dragons d20 System

Reason & Purpose
With so many base classes and Prestige classes (PrCs), there was what seemed to be an infinite amount of options. Yet for their numbers, the options were choking the game with extraneous abilities and books upon books of bonus material. While options are one of the key reasons for this variant system, the sheer volume of options were never weighed against every other option thus allowing some rather incredible builds. Though one had to pay for entry into PrCs, they offered more than a typical player wanted or needed most of the time and made a character more and more unrealistic. Should core classes be the sole proprietors of the game? The simple answer would be yes, however, with anything that completely changes how one aspect of a game works, the answer is inevitably no.
There are not very many concepts that belong in a traditional DnD game that cannot be created or house ruled through the core classes alone. With player’s multi-classing so often into and out of PrCs, how are they to gain anything relating to an identity? And with many of the 36 core classes (that’s right, it’s gotten to this point already!) offering little to no reason to continue through 20 levels with them, PrCs were the easy route to selling more and more product. DnD is and always will be a game. Unfortunately, it is also a business and the only way for DnD to survive the game wars is to make sure that business is good. Is this good for DnD and in reality, the entire business of tabletop games? Yes. Does business always mix well with pleasure? No. Perfect example, the demise of Dragon and Dungeon as printed magazines. Good move from the gamers stand point? No. Good business move? Probably, though time will tell.
The game is a business but the hobby, which is the reason for playing for a vast majority of “gamers”, is pleasure. That is the purpose of this variant system. To condense and create an easier and more fun DnD system from what it has become due to the natural order and cut-throat world of business.
I for one am very proud of Wizards of the Coast and the fine job that they do to come up with and put into print new mechanics and concepts that I review and for the most part, really, really enjoy. Their printed material and website has done and continues to give a great service to me by providing inspiration to my design and development of new concepts and systems that make what is by financial rights their game, become my game.
-C

The System
This system was built from the frustrations of a DM and player whose passion for the game was being overloaded with unnecessary and sometimes boring content. Preference is the key word I focused on for this concept. What is your preference is not always what my preference is. I may like a Barbarian with Rage while someone else may prefer a Barbarian with the Whirling Frenzy variant. Variants are great. In fact, the one thing all game groups have in common is house rules which are just variant rules. Usually, to get what you wanted for your character, you’d have to multi-class and sometimes pay a stiff fine of 20% XP withholding until you fixed it. Sometimes, you weren’t the right race to get exactly what you wanted. And sometimes, your DM may ban a certain class or PrC you wanted.
These problems are no longer a problem with this system as all characters are built around a single advancement. All characters are equal because they all have the same amount of power. You as a player get exactly what you want for your character without having to sacrifice for other things that you don’t want. There are no more “tack-on sales”. You get what you pay for and your character becomes what you want.
This system is a point buy system. Characters are generated differently than a regular DnD character as you start out with a set number of starting points to “buy” your character and as you level up, gain more sets of points at each level with which to “buy” more of your character. This is similar to most White Wolf games but the game itself still uses the standard d20 rules set. This system just creates a standardized set of rules for character creation and development. No more 36 base classes and more than 200 PrCs. Everyone gets just one class. It might seem as though everyone might have the same character, but the build possibilities are endless.
For the DM, this system can be a godsend due to the simple fact that even complex NPCs and BBEGs (Big Bad Evil Guys) can be created within minutes rather than the better part of an hour. You just choose what you want them to be, cost them out, and buy them. Plain and simple and you’re on your way allowing you to focus more on the adventure and story. This is also great for when your PCs would normally have needed to take an entire night to create characters. Now it should only take up to an hour for all of them.
#2

cthascott

Jan 31, 2008 10:40:30
Character Points
Every character receives character points (CPs) that he/she uses to essentially “buy” class and character abilities and power. At 1st level, everyone receives 10 CPs to create a character and another 5 CPs to buy abilities. These extra 5 starting CPs don’t mean that you can’t spend any of the original 10 CPs to buy abilities; they’re there to boost characters and put them on the same playing field with the standard 1st level DnD classes.
Characters still progress in levels via experience points but each additional level doesn’t mean a level in a class, but that a character has earned another pool of CPs to buy new abilities and power for their character. Each level after the 1st nets a character 10 CPs with which to spend accordingly. CPs not used before the next game session rollover to the next level. Even if a player has earned a CP in between levels, they must wait to spend it the next time that they level up. The DM may award CPs for outstanding role-playing but DMs should also be aware of giving out too many CPs. A good gauge should be 1 awarded CP per game session at the most but that depends on how many game sessions your group goes in between leveling up. A DM would probably be better served rewarding extra XP for great game play but CPs should be reserved for those extra special role-playing events at game sessions. Making this known to your players will get them to role-play harder rather than roll-play harder. You should never take away CPs from a PC as they are their life, lesser XP rewards would be a more fitting punishment if need be.
This system also allows for changes in the power level very easily. If you want to play a power game, then simply lower the CP cost of abilities and features and in the same vein, you may decrease the power level of the game by raising the CP cost of abilities and features. Or by merely giving out more or less CPs to your players can raise or lower the power level as well.

Character Creation & Development

Ability Scores
Rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest number may seem fair but we’ve all seen when one player rolls very well while others do not. This can (even though we try to deny it) lead to envy and anger in a player and among a group. A game that is supposed to be fun can sometimes upset you from the very start. A point buy system was the fairest way to account for this. Luck of the dice shouldn’t dictate your characters life. The range of ability scores can seem too random and wide (3 to 18) for most DnD players and DMs. This also eliminates the need to re-roll which seems to be a common occurrence if even some of the stats are not of optimal value.
Every player’s character starts with an 8 in all of their ability scores and has 30 points to spread among these abilities as they see fit. These points are spent on a point for point basis. For example, if my character has an 8 in Wisdom and I want him to be able to cast divine spells, he’ll need at least a Wisdom score of 10 to cast the simplest of spells. I’ll spend 9 points to bring his Wisdom to a 17 (8 starting + 9 bought = 17 total) and now I have 21 points left to spend on my other ability scores. Even in this point buy system, a character cannot buy above an 18 in any single ability score as the maximum of 4d6 while dropping the lowest roll is 18. This helps to keep balance though racial ability modifiers may increase a starting characters ability scores above an 18.

Hit Dice
Every single level that a character ever has automatically receives a d4 for HD. A player never has to buy starting HD for his/her character. An increase in a characters HD may be bought however with every step increase costing 1CP. For example, my character begins with a d4 but I want him to be a stalwart character with a d12 so I buy 4 increases to his HD with 4CPs (d4 to d6, d6 to d8, d8 to d10, and d10 to d12). At 1st level, a character’s HD is maximized just as a standard DnD character’s is.
HD are counted differently in this game because with CPs being more valuable than gold to every character, you want to make sure that you’re getting something for them when you spend them. HD in this system is counted accordingly:
• A d4 is 1d2 (a d4 with the values cut in half, minimum 1) + 2.
• A d6 is 1d3 (a d6 with the values cut in half, minimum 1) + 3.
• A d8 is 1d4 + 4.
• A d10 is 1d5 (a d10 with the values cut in half, minimum 1) + 5.
• A d12 is 1d6 + 6.

This variant HD system ensures that every CP you spend on HD results in at least 1 extra hit point from the previous HD with a “luck” option for more. This is the only rolling a player does when creating his/her character and even then, it’s very limited in possibilities.

Base Attack Bonus (BAB)
Unlike HD, a character never gains an automatic point of BAB when leveling up. BAB must be bought and paid for with CPs. A character can never buy more than 1 point of BAB when they are leveling up even if their BAB is less than their character level. BAB is bought with CPs at different rates throughout a PCs career. Buying BAB +1 through +7 costs 1 CP per point of BAB increase. Buying BAB +8 through +15 costs 2 CP per point of BAB increase. And buying BAB +16 through +20 costs 3 CPs per point of BAB increase. A character still gains extra attacks due to increased BAB with no added cost.

Saves
Saves, like BAB, are not an automatic character trait. It must be bought point for point. Any or all saves can be bought at each level. You may never buy more than 1 point of any one base save per level except for 1st level where you may buy two points in a base save. Your total points in a base save will never exceed your character level + 1 and you may have no more than a +12 total base save bonus. There are no more good or bad saves, there are just saves that the PC has bought with his CPs and is now either good at defending against or not.

Skills
Since there are no more classes, there are no more class skills or cross class skills. This system uses Archetype skills sets. The archetype skills sets are as follows:
Mage 3 + INT) : Assess, Autohypnosis, Concentration, Craft (taken individually), Knowledge (taken individually), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device
Manipulator (4 + INT) : Assess, Concentration, Deception, Gather Information, Intuition, Knowledge (Local or Nobility [taken individually]), Manipulate Item, Perception, Persuasion
Scout (5 + INT) : Acrobatics, Athletics, Craft (taken individually), Gather Information, Initiative, Intuition, Knowledge (Nature, Geography, or Architecture & Engineering [taken individually]), Mechanics, Perception, Survival, Treat Injury
Sneak (2 + INT) : Acrobatics, Assess, Athletics, Deception, Manipulate Item, Mechanics, Stealth, Survival
Strongarm (2 + INT) : Athletics, Initiative, Perception, Ride, Survival

The PC chooses an archetype skills set and from that skills set chooses a number of those skills equal to the value stated. For example, I’ve chosen the Strongarm skills set and I have an Intelligence of 15, a +2 bonus. Now I must choose 4 skills from my skills set. The skills in bold are automatically included as part of a PC’s final skills set and do not count against the PC’s number of chosen skills. There are archetype skills and non-archetype skills. Character skills can have the maximum ranks (character level + 3) in that skill. Non-archetype skills are treated like cross-class skills where you may only have half maximum ranks (character level + 3 divided by 2) in the skill. Skills that are untrained skills and are not archetype skills are off limits to players that do not have them as archetype skills unless they buy the Skill Training feat for 4CPs.
This system uses the Star Wars Saga Edition pared down skills list. The reason for this part of the system was that early testing allowed the PCs to choose a certain number of skills but everyone kept choosing the same skills because they were the “best” skills available. Mages were tumbling and stupid characters were disabling the most complex devices. In the end, this allows for a great deal of diversity yet still makes attaining all of the “best” skills difficult and expensive albeit not impossible.
There are a few new skills that are not in the Saga edition which I have included for use. They are as follows:

Assess (INT) which is a combination of Appraise and Decipher Script.
Athletics (STR) which is a combination of Climb, Jump, and Swim.
Manipulate Item (DEX) which is a combination of Forgery and Use Rope.

Skill Points
Every single level that a PC has automatically receives 2 + Intelligence modifier in skill points. A player never has to buy starting skill points for his/her character. An increase in a characters skill points at any given level may be bought however with every step increase costing 1CP. For example, my character begins with 2 + Int mod for skill points but I want him to be a skills monkey character with 8 + Int mod so I buy 3 increases to his skill points per level total with 3CPs (2 + Int to 4 + Int, 4 + Int to 6 + Int, and 6 + Int to 8 + Int). At 1st level, a character’s skill point total is multiplied by 4 just as a standard DnD character’s is.

Buying Feats
A PC may buy feats with CPs. He/she may buy 1 feat per character level except when he/she would receive a free character feat with an exception for first level (described below). Feats are broken down into two categories: Regular feats and lesser feats. Most feats cost 4CPs, these are the regular feats. This equates to most of the feats found in any official DnD book like, for example, Power Attack. Lesser feats cost 2CPs and consist of any Skill Focus, 2 + 2 skills feats, Combat Casting, Dodge, Toughness, Great Fortitude, Lightening Reflexes, and Iron Will. Lesser feats may be bought at any level and you may purchase multiple lesser feats in the same level. A PC may not buy a prerequisite of another feat in the same level as the feat to be purchased. For example, if I want the feat Mobility, I can’t buy the lesser feat Dodge in the same level. Your DM may adjudicate which one of these categories a feat falls under. To the DM: If your PCs all seem to be taking the same feat because you’ve designated it as a lesser and it is not in the list above, you might want to reconsider the pricing of the feat. This might even extend to regular feats, though that is less likely.
PCs still get free character feats every three levels and an extra starting feat for free at 1st level (1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th.).

Ability Points
PCs receive two free ability points every 4 levels (4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th.) just like standard DnD characters. The two points must be used for different ability scores. Ability points are not and should never be a buyable commodity.

Buying Abilities
Abilities are the defining traits for a PC. All class abilities are on the market to be bought by PCs willing and able to spend the CPs to gain their effects. Just like feats, some abilities have prerequisites or cannot be bought until the earliest level a standard DnD character could have attained them. For example, a 1st level PC could never buy Evasion as the earliest level it could be attained by a standard DnD character is 2nd level. Abilities have a wide range of costs from 1 to 7CPs with some costing more CPs down the line if you wish to keep developing the ability. Abilities can be bought at any level and without limitation as long as you meet any prerequisites and have the CPs to spend. For example, I have 15CPs to spend on my 1st level character and I want him to be a roguish arcane spellcaster so I buy the 1st level for arcane spellcasting for 5CPs, Wisdom bonus to AC for 2CPs (because I have a Wisdom score of 15), and my first +1d6 Sneak Attack for 4CPs leaving me 4CPs left which I spend on increasing my skill points by two steps, increasing my HD by one step and buying 1 point in my base Reflex save.
The list of abilities along with where to find them and their CP cost is given below. The DM has the ultimate say on what any ability costs but abilities should never cost more than 7CPs in one sitting though it may need to be purchased again to increase its effects.

Buying off Level Adjustments
A PC who plays as a creature or has a template that has a level adjustment (LA) can do one of the following. Buy off the LA with experience points (Unearthed Arcana, pg.18) or by buying the LA off with CPs. Each level of adjustment costs 10CPs and may be purchased away once per level until the LA is at +0. A PC with an LA must choose which of these two methods his/her character goes with at 1st level and once chosen cannot be undone. A PC still takes an XP penalty as a higher level character until his LA is bought off. For example, I want to play a Drow. Drow have an LA +2 which I have chosen to buy off with CPs. At 1st level, I spend 10CPs to buy off 1 of my LAs and now I have an LA +1 and I’m at character level 1st thus making my character receive XP as a 2nd level character instead of receiving XP as a 3rd level character as I would have under the original DnD system.
Characters that play creatures with racial HD and LAs substitute the number of racial HD levels for an equal number of their first character levels (which means that the PC would receive no CPs for the first levels equaling their racial HD but would still receive the hit points, saves, BAB and skill points as per their racial HD description) and merely pay off the LA in one of the two ways discussed above.
#3

cthascott

Jan 31, 2008 10:41:41
Buying Spellcasting
Spellcasting can be bought in the same manner that abilities may be bought and in fact, spellcasting is considered a form of class ability but it has some special rules. When a PC first decides to become a spellcaster, he must decide which path to take: Arcane, Divine, or Psionic. Invocations are technically an arcane art; however, since they use a different game mechanic, they need their own designation and are discussed later. This is perhaps the most complicated part of the system, yet when it is fully understood, becomes quite simple.
In this system, there is only one progression for spellcasting; the Wizard’s progression. Though every spellcaster in this system is a spontaneous caster, the spells known works like a Wizard’s spell list with a cap on the number of spell levels a spellcaster may learn at each level (explained later in this section). This one class DnD system is streamlined and therefore needed a streamlined spellcasting system. This makes the spellcasters choices, like all the other ones the PC makes when creating and developing his character, become crucial and important. This also does away with a divine caster learning every spell of a particular level without having to sacrifice anything. There is no more CoDzilla (Cleric or Druid zilla) to rule the game table. It also does away with one spell being a different level for different classes of the same path (like a Bard having access to a spell at a lower level than a Wizard/Sorcerer) though they may still be different due to two paths having access to the same spell but at different levels. For a spell that both the Cleric and Druid have but receive at different spell levels, use the Clerics progression. For a spell that an arcane caster has at a lower level than the Wizard/Sorcerer, use the Wizard/Sorcerer level. For spells that a Wizard, Cleric, Druid, nor Sorcerer have access to (like some Assassin spells) just adjudicate it in the appropriate spell level and path (i.e. Assassin spells are arcane spells).
Psionic users use the Psion as their model for manifesting powers. The manifesting abilities, ways of power increases, and number of powers of the Psion have not been changed. Overall, this shortchanges manifesters in comparison to other spellcasters, however, manifesters have extreme flexibility with their list of powers known, virtually unlimited spell slots of any given spell level if they so choose, and the ability to augment their powers with special effects. Manifesters definitely still have their own niche and power level.
This makes all spellcasters equal in power and different in style as no two spellcasters have the same spells list and therefore will have different capabilities. While the Wizard is the model for the spellcasting progression in this system, the spellcasting is not directly modeled after the Wizard but an amalgamation of the Sorcerer and Wizard. Spellcasters in this system have a large list of spells but must prepare them like non-sorcerer spellcasters. These spells are chosen at the beginning of the day or after 8 hours of rest and 1 hour of concentration. For example, the Wizards table states that at 2nd level, you have two 1st level spells for the day. This means that you may choose two 1st level spells to have prepared for the day. The spells may be used in any order and any single spell may be used as many times as needed as long as you still have a proper spell slot open for the spells level. In essence, the Wizards table tells a caster how many different spells of a particular level he can choose for his spell list each day and the number of times he may cast spells of that particular spell level each day. “Bonus spells” for a high casting stat are simply extra slots for a particular spell level and do not increase the number of spells you prepare for a particular spell level to be added to your spells list for the day.
At every level, a spellcaster gains 2 new spells known and these spells may be of any spell level that the spellcaster may cast. To learn more spells, a spellcaster can add a new spell to his repertoire whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in a spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the spellcaster must first decipher the magical writing. Next, he must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). If the check succeeds, the spellcaster understands the spell and can add the new spell to his repertoire. The spellcaster may learn a number of spell levels at each character level equal to his caster level + his main casting stat. The 2 spells that the spellcaster automatically gains at each level do not count against this total. This process leaves a spellbook that the spell was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment. If the check fails, the spellcaster cannot understand the spell. A PC cannot attempt to learn that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was unsuccessfully learned from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll. The spellcaster knows all 0-level spells of the PCs path (either arcane or divine).
The slight decrease in the spellcasters power level is made up for in versatility and a change in the way spontaneous spellcasting works as metamagic feats do not increase a spellcasters casting time (this allows for the feat Quicken Spell to be in effect for this spontaneous casting system).
An arcane caster may become a Specialist caster as per the Wizard entry and must follow the same rules (School Specialization, pg.57, PHB). A divine caster may choose to follow the Element Focus style (described in the Shugenja entry on pg.13, Complete Divine) but is then required to use the spells known progression from the Shugenja class (Table 1-4: Shugenja Spells Known, pg.12, Complete Divine). A manifester may choose a discipline and gains all the benefits and hindrances of the discipline. Powers that are unique only to a certain discipline and not to manifesters in general are off limits to generalists. Class skills obtained through the chosen discipline do not count against a PCs number of archetype skills and do not have to be paid for with CPs. This decision is made when the character gains their 1st level in the corresponding spellcasting path and once chosen, cannot be undone or changed.
Spellcasting has different costs dependent upon level and type. Spellcasting levels 1st through 7th cost 5CPs for divine and 6CPs for arcane or psionic. Spellcasting levels 8th through 14th costs 6CPs for divine and 7CPs for arcane or psionic. And spellcasting levels 15th through 20th cost 7CPs divine and 8CPs for arcane or psionic. These purchases must be made at every level that you want an increase in your spellcasting abilities and may be bought once a level. This increase gives you extra spells per day and further access to higher spell levels. Upon buying your first level of spellcasting, you must indicate whether you are buying a level of arcane, divine or psionic spellcasting. If you choose to cast arcane spells, you choose either Intelligence or Charisma as your key casting stat. If you choose to cast divine spells, you choose either Wisdom or Charisma as your key casting stat. If you choose to manifest psionic powers, you choose either Intelligence or Wisdom as your key manifesting stat. You may buy multiple spellcasting paths but you must pay for them separately and separately track your spells per day and spells known for each path. Spell slots in one path may not be filled by spells or powers from another path. If you use the spell point system variant, your spell points and or power points are tracked separately and may not be used to power a spell of a different path.
Instead of buying a level in spellcasting, you may just wish to just increase the effectiveness of your spellcasting ability with an increased caster level. Buying an increase costs 2CPs per path per caster level for levels 2nd through 11th and 3CPs per path per caster level for levels 12th through 20th caster levels. If you choose this route and have multiple spellcasting paths, you must choose which path your caster level increases in. This does not give you access to higher spell levels or spells per day but it does increase the damage, area, and duration of your spells as per the spells description and allows you to learn more spells per character level though you do not learn two new spells automatically for each increase in your caster level. If you do not choose to increase your caster level at a particular level and then choose to raise your caster level the next level, you cannot learn spells retroactively for character levels where you did not increase your caster level.

Variant Tainted Spellcasting
A player who chooses to be a spellcaster may buy spellcasting for a tainted cost using this variant. If you want to taint your spellcasting, it must be done starting with the first level in a spellcasting path that you buy. Tainting a spellcasting path forces you to use a focus that you hold in one of your hands when casting and you cannot cast without it. For arcane casters, this focus is a wand. For divine casters, this focus is a holy symbol (which cannot be circumvented with the Worldly Focus feat). And for psionic manifesters, this focus is a cognizance crystal. Nothing about your focus may be magical but it must be of masterwork quality and costing no less than 100gp. It is merely what you use to help channel your spellcasting powers and you must be holding your focus in one of your hands anytime you cast a spell or manifest a power from that path. If you taint multiple spellcasting paths, you must have the focus for each one on hand. You must attune yourself to your focus which takes 1 day or 8 hours of uninterrupted meditation with the item in your hand. If you lose your focus or it is stolen or destroyed, you must attune yourself to a new focus before you can cast spells again. Tainting a path of spellcasting causes that path to cost 1CP less each level. This reduced cost also affects buying caster levels in the tainted path.

Spell Point Variant

My group uses the spell point system in the UA but we use it in conjunction with the above system. We also use a recharge system for spell points so that a spellcaster can tap himself out but will always be ready for the next fight without having to rest for 8 hours.
#4

cthascott

Jan 31, 2008 11:00:36
Buying Infusions
Buying the ability to use infusions is exactly like buying spellcasting. The taint focus for infusers is a wand constructed by yourself. The key stat for an infuser is Intelligence and you follow the Artificers infusions progression. For each infuser level you have, you also receive a Craft Reserve for that level. You use the Artificers Craft Reserve progression to determine this number and follow the Craft Reserve rules to use this path feature.

Buying Invocations
Buying the ability to invoke powers is exactly like buying spellcasting. The taint focus is a strip of demon flesh or dragons scales (dependant upon your damage type). The key stat for an invoker is Charisma and you follow the Warlocks invocations progression. Invocations may be selected from the Warlock and Dragonfire Adept invocation lists. Eldritch blast, eldritch shape, and breath effect (which are now treated as invocations) invocations are allowed to be selected due to the fact that at every odd invoker level, you receive a +1d6 eldritch blast or +1d6 fire breath weapons. This is selected at your 1st invoker level and once selected may not be undone. This is treated just as the Warlock and Dragonfire Adept class abilities. You must still follow the minimum level requirements for your invocations.

Buying Auras
For players that enjoy playing Marshals or Dragon Shamans, you may still do so by buying the ability to project auras. Characters who wield this ability are called Projectors. This is similar to spellcasting as it must be bought at every level you wish to advance your auras; however, its cost is not as steep. The progression for aura buying is based on the Marshal’s progression and includes minor and major auras and uses the same mechanic the Marshal follows with increases to you major aura as you gain Projector levels. A Projector may choose auras from the Marshal and Dragon Shaman lists with Dragon Shaman auras considered to be major auras when using the Marshal model. The 1st Projector level costs 5CPs and each Projector level after that cost 3CP with your Projector level equaling your level in the Marshal progression model.

Buying Maneuvers
For PCs who have enjoyed the Tome of Battle, have no fear for it still exists in this system. Like spellcasting, a PC may buy maneuvers and stances by buying Initiator levels though the cost does not increase as your Initiator level increases. An Initiator level costs 4CP/level and increases in your Initiator “caster” level may be purchased for 2CP/level (this really just dictates your Initiator level when determining the stance or maneuver level you might purchase through the martial Study/Stance feats, your Initiator level when purchasing abilities and bonus maneuvers and stances [see below]). A PC may never buy more than one Initiator level or Initiator “caster” level at any given level, even if the PC has less Initiator levels than character levels. Upon receiving their first Initiator level, you must choose 5 disciplines to follow and once chosen, cannot be changed. All Initiators follow the Warblade’s Initiator progression but learn one additional maneuver known at 5th, 10th, and 15th Initiator levels and add one additional stance known at 7th Initiator level.
#5

cthascott

Jan 31, 2008 11:02:53
Abilities and Cost

Base Classes

Artificer:
Artificer Knowledge (infuser level 1) = 2CP
Artisan Bonus (Artificer Knowledge, any Item Creation feat) = 1CP
Disable Trap = see Trapfinding
Item Creation (Artisan Bonus) = 4CP
Retain Essence (Artisan Bonus, infuser level 5) = 3CP
Metamagic Spell Trigger (Retain Essence, infuser level 6) = 3CP

Barbarian:
Fast movement 10ft. (may be bought once every 10 levels) = 4CP
Rage 1/day (Each additional Rage/day costs 3 CP) = 5CP
Uncanny dodge = 4CP
Trap sense (+1/3 Character levels) = 1CP/ +1 advancement and once chosen, the costs and advancements cannot be stopped.
Improved uncanny dodge (Uncanny Dodge, min.5th level) = 4CP
Damage reduction 1/— (+1/3 character levels) (min.7th level) = 3CP and an additional 1CP/ point of DR. Once this ability is chosen, the costs and advancement cannot be stopped.
Greater rage (min.11th level, Rage 3/day) = 5CP
Indomitable will (min.14th level, Rage 4/day) = 3CP
Tireless rage (min.17th level, Rage 5/day) = 4CP
Mighty rage (min.20th level, Rage 6/day, Greater Rage) = 5CP

Bard:
Bardic music 1/day (may be bought once per level after 1st with a cost of 1CP) = 3CP
Bardic knowledge = 4CP
Countersong (Bardic Music) = free
Fascinate (Bardic Music) = free
Inspire courage (Bardic Music) (+1/5 character levels) = free
Inspire competence (Bardic Music) (min.3rd level) = free
Suggestion (Bardic Music 6/day) (min.6th level) = free
Inspire greatness (Bardic Music 6/day) (min.9th level) = free
Song of freedom (Bardic Music 11/day) (min.12th level) = free
Inspire heroics (Bardic Music 11/day) (min.15th level) = free
Mass suggestion (Bardic Music 16/day) (min.18th level) = free

Cleric:
Turn Undead (divine level 1, Cleric level equals divine caster level) = 5CP
Domains (ability to cast divine spells) = 1CP/ level over 5 levels (equaling 5CP and once chosen, the cost cannot be stopped until the Domain is fully paid for) (The number of Domains one PC may have is equal to his key casting stat ability modifier divided by 2 rounded down.)
Spontaneous Cure spells (ability to cast divine spells) = 3CP

Druid:
Animal companion = 1CP/ character level of advancement
Spontaneous Summon Nature’s Ally spells (ability to cast divine spells) = 3CP
Nature sense = 1CP
Wild empathy = 2CP
Woodland stride = 2CP
Trackless step = 2CP
Resist nature’s lure = 2CP
Wild shape (1/day, medium and small animals) (Each additional Wild Shape 1/day costs 2CP) = 5CP
Wild shape (Large) (Wild Shape 2/day, min.8th level) = 2CP
Venom immunity (min.9th level) = 2CP
Wild shape (Tiny) (Wild Shape 3/day, min.11th level) = 2CP
Wild shape (plant) (Wild Shape 4/day, min.12th level) = 2CP
A thousand faces (Wild Shape 1/day, min.13th level) = 5CP
Timeless body = 2CP
Wild shape (Huge) (Wild Shape 5/day, min.15th level) = 2CP
Wild shape elemental (1/day) (Wild Shape 1/day, min.16th level) = 2CP/use per day
Wild shape (Huge elemental) (Wild Shape Elemental 1/day, min.20th level) = 2CP

Dragonfire Adept:
Scales (invoker level 2 [breath weapon], Dragontouched) (may be bought at 8th, 13th, and 18th levels for 2CP) = 3CP
Dragonkin (invoker level 4 [breath weapon], Scales +2) =2CP
Immunities (invoker level 10 [breath weapon], min.19th level) = 3CP

Favored Soul:
Energy Resistance = Covered in General Abilities section.
Wings (divine level 10, alignment one step away from your deity’s) = 3CP

Healer:
Healing Hands (divine level 1, Cha 13) = 3CP
Cleanse Paralysis (Healing Hands, divine caster level 3) = 2CP
Cleanse Disease (min.4th level, Cleanse Paralysis) = 2CP
Cleanse Fear (Cleanse Disease, min.5th level) = 2CP
Cleanse Poison (min. 6th level, Cleanse Fear) = 2CP
Effortless Healing (divine caster level 7, Healing Hands) = 3CP
Unicorn Companion (Healer level equals character level -7) (Healing Hands, Good alignment, lost if alignment changes, min.8th level) = 1CP/2 levels
Cleanse Blindness (divine caster level 8, Cleanse Poison, min.9th level) = 2CP
Cleanse Spirit (divine caster level 10, Cleanse Blindness) = 2CP
Cleanse Petrification (divine caster level 13, Cleanse Spirit) = 2CP
New Limb (divine caster level 15, Cleanse Petrification) = 2CP
New Life (divine caster level 15, min.20th level, New Limb) = 3CP

Hexblade:
Hexblade’s Curse 1/encounter (Each additional use per encounter costs 2CP but can only be bought once every 4 levels) = 4CP
Arcane Resistance (min.2nd level, non-good alignment, lost if alignment changes) = 3CP
Mettle (Con 15, Base Fortitude save +3, min.3rd level) = 4CP
Greater Hexblade’s Curse (Hexblade’s Curse 2/day, min.7th level) = 4CP
Aura of Unluck 1/day (Greater Hexblade’s Curse, min.12th level) (each additional use per day may be bought once every 4 levels and costs 2CP) = 3CP
Dire Hexblade’s Curse (Hexblade’s Curse 5/encounter, Greater Hexblade’s Curse, min.19th level) = 4CP

Marshal:
Grant move action (1/day) (projector level 4) (may be bought once every 4 levels thereafter for 2CP) = 3CP

Monk:
Wisdom Bonus to AC = 1CP/ point of Wisdom bonus (increases in your Wisdom bonus cost extra points and must be paid for before the effect will take place)
Monks AC bonus (+1 per 5 character levels) = 4CP
Unarmored Speed Bonus (may be bought once every three levels thereafter) (min.3rd level) = 2CP/ +10ft.
Increased Unarmed Damage (Character level equal to Monk level) (Improved Unarmed Strike) = 5CP
Evasion (Dex 15, Base Reflex save +3, min. 2nd level) = 5CP
Still mind (min.3rd level) = 1CP
Ki strike (magic) (min.4th level) = 3CP
Slow fall 20 ft. (+10ft. /2 character levels) (min.4th level) = 5CP
Purity of body (min.5th level) = 2CP
Wholeness of body (Equals your character level.) (min.7th level) = 3CP
Improved evasion (Evasion, Dex 17, Base Reflex save +6, min.9th level) = 5CP
Ki strike (lawful) (Ki strike [magic], min.10th level) = 2CP
Diamond body (Wholeness of Body, min.11th level) = 2CP
Abundant step (min.12th level) = 1CP
Diamond soul (equals character level) (Diamond Body, min.13th level) = 5CP
Quivering palm (Ki Strike [lawful], Stunning Fist, min.15th level) = 5CP
Ki strike (adamantine) (Ki strike [lawful], min.16th level) = 2CP
Tongue of the sun and moon (min.17th level) = 4CP
Empty body (Equals character level) (Diamond Body, min.19th level) = 5CP
Perfect self (Diamond Soul, min.20th level) = 5CP
Slow fall any distance (Slow Fall 20ft., min.20th level) = 2CP

Ninja:
Ki Power (Ninja class level equals PC level) (Monk’s AC bonus, Wisdom bonus to AC) = 1CP at every odd level starting at 1st level (If this ability is bought after 1st level, the number of CP owed at that PCs level must be paid before the PC may use this ability. The PC may choose to stop payment on this ability but only receives the benefits for the amount already paid in. For example, a PC stops paying for Ki Power after 3CP, the PC’s Wisdom bonus to AC may only be up to 3 bonus points, he has three uses of Ki Power every day, and has only 1 point of Monk’s AC bonus [if he remains unarmored].)
Sudden Strike +1d6 = see Sneak Attack
Ghost Step (Invisible) (Ki Power 1/day, min.2nd level) = 2CP
Poison Use (non-good alignment, lost if alignment changes, min.3rd level) = 3CP
Great Leap (Ki Power, min.4th level) = 3CP
Acrobatics (Great Leap, min.6th level) (may be bought once every 6 levels) = 2CP
Ki Dodge (Ki Power 3/day, Ghost Step [Invisible], min.6th level) = 2CP
Speed Climb (Acrobatics, min.7th level) = 3CP
Ghost Strike (Ki Power 4/day, Ki Dodge, min. 8th level) = 2CP
Improved Poison Use (Poison Use, min.9th level) = 3CP
Ghost Step (Ethereal) (Ki Power 5/day, Ghost Strike, min.10th level) = 2CP
Ghost Mind (Ki Power 7/day, Ghost Step [Ethereal], min.14th level) = 2CP
Ghost Sight (Ki Power 8/day, Ghost Mind, min.16th level) = 2CP
Greater Ki Dodge (Ki Power 9/day, Ghost Sight, min.18th level) = 2CP
Ghost Walk (Ki Power 10/day, Greater Ki Dodge, min.20th level) = 2CP

Paladin:
Aura of good (Equal to character level) (Good alignment, lost if alignment changes) = 2CP
Detect evil (Good alignment, lost if alignment changes) = 2CP
Smite evil 1/encounter (Paladin level equals PC level) (Detect Evil) (Each additional use per encounter costs 2CP but can only be bought once every 5 levels) = 3CP
Divine grace (min. 2nd level, Good alignment, lost if alignment changes) = 4CP
Lay on hands (Equals character level) (min.2nd level) = 4CP
Aura of courage (Aura of Good, min.3rd level) = 2CP
Divine health (min.3rd level, Divine Grace) = 4CP
Special mount (This costs an additional 1CP/ 2 levels of advancement.) = 3CP for the first 2 levels once this ability is chosen.
Remove disease (1/week) (Each additional use per week costs 2CP) (Lay on Hands, min.6th level) = 3CP

Ranger:
Favored enemy (Must be purchased each additional time for another favored enemy or advancement on the first. Can only be bought once/5 levels) = 3CP
Swift tracker (Track, min.8th level) = 3CP
Camouflage (Hide 16 ranks, min.13th level) = 4CP
Hide in plain sight (Hide 20 ranks, min.17th level, Camouflage) = 5CP

Rogue:
Sneak attack +1d6 (Can only be bought once per 2 levels) (Each additional +1d6 costs 3CP) = 4CP
Trapfinding = 3CP
Crippling Strike (SA +1D6, min.10th level) = 4CP
Defensive Roll (Toughness, min.10th level) = 4CP
Opportunist (Combat Reflexes, min.10th level) = 4CP
Skill Mastery (Skill Focus [Any], Int 13, min.10th level) = 4CP
Slippery Mind (Iron Will, min.10th level) = 4CP

Samurai:
Kiai Smite (same as Paladin’s Smite Evil but is available starting at 3rd level and doesn’t have any prerequisites) = see Paladin
Staredown (Kiai Smite, min.6th level) = 3CP
Mass Staredown (Staredown, min.10th level) = 3CP
Improved Staredown (Mass Staredown, min.14th level) = 3CP
Frightful Presence (Improved Staredown, min.20th level) = 3CP

Scout:
Skirmish (+1d6) (may be bought once every 4 levels after 1st level) = 2CP
Battle Fortitude +1 (may be bought once at 2nd, 11th, and 20th levels) = 2CP
Skirmish (AC +1) (Skirmish [+1d6], min.3rd level) (may be bought once every 4 levels after 3rd) = 2CP
Flawless Stride (min.6th level) = 2CP Blindsense 30ft. (Blindfight, min.10th level) = 5CP
Free Movement (Fast Movement 20ft, Skirmish [+5d6, +5 AC], min.18th level) = 5CP
Blindsight (Blindsense, min.20th level) = 5CP

Shugenja:
Element Focus (divine level 1) (see the Buying Spellcasting section for details) = free
Sense Elements (divine level 1, Element Focus style) (advances as described in the Shugenja entry) = free

Sorcerer/Wizard:
Summon Familiar (ability to cast arcane spells) (arcane caster level determines the abilities of the familiar) = 4CP

Soulknife:
Mind blade (power point reserve 1) = 4CP
Throw Mind blade (Mind blade, min.2nd level) = 2CP
Psychic Strike (Mind blade, min.3rd level) (Can only be bought once per 4 levels) (Each additional +1d8 costs 2CP) = 3CP
+1 Mind blade (Mind blade, min. 4th level) (may be bought once every 4 levels) = 3CP
Shape Mind blade (+1 Mind blade, min.5th level) = 2CP
Mind blade enhancement +1 (+1 Mind blade, min.6th level) (may be bought once every 4 levels) = 3CP
Bladewind (Mind blade enhancement +1, min.9th level) = 3CP
Knife to the Soul (Psychic Strike +1d8, min.13th level) = 5CP
Multiple Throw (Shape Mind blade, Bladewind, min.17th level) = 3CP

Spellthief:
Steal Spell (0 and 1st) (each additional level of spells to be stolen may be bought at every even level starting at 4th for an additional 3CP) (Sneak Attack +1d6, min. PC level required) = 3CP
Detect Magic (min.2nd level) = 2CP
Spellgrace +1 (may be bought at 2nd, 11th, and 20th levels) = 2CP
Steal Spell Effect (Sneak Attack +1d6, Steal Spell 0 and 1st, min.2nd level) = 3CP
Steal Energy Resistance 10 (Steal Spell Effect, min.3rd level) (may be bought again at 11th and 19th levels and increases by an additional 10 each time) = 3CP
Steal Spell-like Ability (Steal Spell [2nd], Steal Energy Resistance, Sneak Attack +2d6, min.5th level) = 3CP
Absorb Spell (arcane level 1, Steal Spell [3rd], Spellgrace +1, min.7th level) = 4CP
Arcane Sight (Detect Magic, arcane level 3, min.9th level) = 2CP
Discover Spells (Steal Spell [6th], Steal Spell-like Ability, Sneak Attack +4d6, min.13th level) = 2CP
Steal Spell Resistance (arcane level 7, Steal Spell [7th], Discover Spells, min.15th) = 4CP


Spirit Shaman:
Spirit Guide (divine level 1, strictly for flavor as it does not fuel your spellcasting) = free
Chastise Spirits (divine level 1, character level 2, Spirit Shaman level equals divine caster level) = 3CP
Detect Spirits (divine level 1, character level 3) = 2CP
Blessing of the Spirits (Detect Spirits, character level 4) = 2CP
Follow the Guide (Spirit Guide, character level 5) = 2CP
Ghost Warrior (Detect Spirits, character level 6) = 3CP
Warding of the Spirits (divine caster level 5, character level 7, Blessing of the Spirits) = 2CP
Spirit Form 1/day (Blessing of the Spirits, Ghost Warrior, character level 9) (may be bought an extra time at 15th and 20th levels with each additional use/day costing 3CP) = 4CP
Guide Magic (Follow the Guide, divine caster level 10) = 3CP
Recall Spirit (divine caster level 11, Detect Spirits) = 3CP
Exorcism (divine caster level 13, Chastise Spirits, Recall Spirit) = 3CP
Weaken Spirits (Chastise Spirits, divine caster level 3, character level 16) = 3CP
Spirit Journey (divine caster level 11, character level 17, Spirit Form 1/day) = 3CP
Favored of the Spirits (divine caster level 13, character level 19, Warding of the Spirits, Spirit Journey) = 2CP
Spirit Who Walks (divine caster level 15, character level 20, Favored of the Spirits) = 5CP

Swashbuckler:
Grace +1 (may be bought once at 2nd, 11th, and 20th levels) = 1CP
Insightful Strike (Weapon Finesse, Grace +1, min.3rd level) = 5CP
Dodge Bonus +1 (Grace +1, min.5th level) (may be bought once every 5 levels) = 3CP
Acrobatic Charge (Dodge Bonus +1, Weapon Finesse, min.7th level) = 4CP
Improved Flanking (Acrobatic Charge, min.8th level) = 3CP
Lucky (Dodge Bonus +2, Grace +2, min.11th level) = 3CP
Acrobatic Skill Mastery (Lucky, Improved Flanking, min.13th level) = 4CP
Weakening Critical (Lucky, Insightful Strike, min.14th level) = 4CP
Wounding Critical (Weakening Critical, min.19th level) = 4CP

Swordsage:
Quick to Act +1 (may be bought an additional time every 5 levels) = 1CP
Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus) (initiator level 1) = 2CP
Wisdom Bonus to AC = same as Monk except the PC may wear light armor
Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike) (Discipline Focus [Weapon Focus]) (may be bought again at 12th level and applies to a different discipline) = 3CP
Sense Magic (min.7th level) = 2CP
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance) (Discipline Focus [Insightful Strike]) (may be bought again at 16th level and applies to a different discipline) = 2CP
Dual Boost (initiator level 20, 2 boosts known) = 3CP

Warblade:
Battle Clarity (Reflex saves) (initiator level 1, Int 13) = 1CP/positive Intelligence modifier (increases in your Intelligence bonus cost extra points and must be paid for before the effect will take place)
Weapon Aptitude (Weapon Focus [Any]) = 4CP
Battle Ardor (Critical Confirmation) (Battle Clarity) = same as Battle Clarity
Battle Cunning (Damage) (Battle Ardor) = same as Battle Clarity
Battle Skill (Opposed Checks) (Battle Cunning) = same as Battle Clarity
Battle Mastery (Attacks of Opportunity) (Battle Skill) = same as Battle Clarity
Stance Mastery (initiator level 20, 2 stances known) = 3CP

Warlock:
Detect Magic (Invoker level 2) (at will, caster level equals character level) = 3CP
Deceive Item (Invoker level 4) (Detect Magic) = 4CP
Fiendish Resilience (Character level 8, arcane or invoker level 5) (may be bought once every 5 levels) = 3CP
Energy Resistance = Covered in General Abilities section.
Imbue Item (Deceive Item, Invoker level 8, character level 12) = 4CP

Warmage:
Armored Mage (light) (arcane level 1) = 3CP
Warmage Edge (arcane level 1, Armored Mage [light]) = 3CP
Advanced Learning (arcane level 3) (may be bought once every 3 levels) = 2CP
Armored Mage (medium) (arcane level 8, Armored Mage [light], medium armor proficiency) = 2CP

Wilder:
Wild Surge +1 (manifester level 1, Cha 11) (Psychic Enervation is part of this ability) (may be bought 2 levels later and an additional time each 4 levels after the second) = 3CP
Elude Touch (Wild Surge +1, manifester level 2) = 1CP/2 pts. Of Charisma bonus
Surging Euphoria +1 (manifester level 4, Wild Surge +1) (may be bought for each additional +1 to your Wild Surge ability) = 2CP
Volatile Mind [1 power point] (manifester level 5, Wild Surge +1) (may be bought once every 4 levels but your manifester level must equal 5 + [4 x the additional number of times the power is bought]) (each additional purchase increases the Volatile Mind by 1 power point and costs 1CP) = 2CP

Wu Jen:
Watchful Spirit = 1CP
Spell Secret (arcane level 3) (may be bought once every 3 levels and your arcane level must equal the prerequisite character level) = 3CP
Elemental Mastery (arcane level 6, Spell Secret) = 3CP
#6

asurya

Feb 01, 2008 6:53:59
Sorry, I didnt have the courage to read all you wrote...

it reminds me this thread, now pruned.

I like the goal (I'd love to play a class-less DnD), but I think the class concept if nested too well in all and every aspect of the game that you will have a hell of a time removing it... I wish you good luck (and I'll keep an eye on this thread in case you made it).

As I scanned your work, several things caugh my eye:
- the 1:1 basis for the point buy is not good, why don't you use the DMG method?
- all feats are not equal in effect, their cost should reflect that
- what of feat that replicates or expend a class feature (CArc::Extra invocation, CW::Extra rage....)
- why skill archetypes? why not barring the cross class system entirely?

just my
#7

cthascott

Feb 01, 2008 17:16:26
I really appreciate you checking out my system and your questions actually made me do a little revision to arcane and psionic spellcasting so thank you very much. I'd like to talk about your concerns.

First, the way that the systme is set up, the player cannot go past the limits of any other class in the current system in any regard. A PC's BAB, HD, abilities, spellcasting and saves are still limited. Also, using this system, I have built each base class in the PHB and can say without a doubt, that this system can show you where a class is strong or weak and by just how much.

If each PC is given 15 starting character points and 10 CP's thereafter, at 20th level he'll have 205 total CP's. That means that if each class is balanced against each other, then each class should come out to that amount (give or take 5 CP's). The class totals in the current 3.5 rules are as follows:

Barbarian: 201 CPs
Bard: 200 CPs
Cleric: 203 CPs
Druid: 260 CPs
Fighter: 137 CPs
Monk: 206 CPs
Paladin: 205 CPs
Psion: 198 CPs
Psychic Warrior: 215 CPs
Ranger: 229 CPs (the Ranger's poor spell selection should actually bring him closer to 210 CPs)
Rogue: 173 CPs
Sorcerer: 188 CPs
Wizard: 200 CPs

The totals are very close to what we would consider the power levels to be. This system, if even not one that will see use by the masses can at least show what makes a balanced class and clearly shows HOW the Druid is overpowered and HOW poorly the Fighter is underpowered.

Feats as they are in 3.5 are not equal. Saga edition proves that feats when made correctly can each have their "oooh and aaaaaah" effect. But 3.5 DnD feats are as you say, not equal. Should they be 5 CPs and take up half of a PCs level? Would most feats in current DnD equal half of a class level? I'd say no.

Every feat has a prerequisite that the PC must meet so if a PC doesn't meet those requirements, then he can't take the feat. Most of the really good feats have prereqs you must meet and therefore the feat actually has a built in cost past the regular 4 CPs.

The system actually started with no restrictions on skills sets. You received a certain number of skills that you could choose for your character and that was that. But everyone starting choosing the same ones, the ones that saw the most advantage. Mages were tumbling and really stupid characters were disabling devices. It was out of hand, especially since the system uses the Saga edition edited skills list. So I made archetypes (which actually met with rave reviews) and ever since, there has been sanity and balance at the game table.

If you get a chance, I'd really like it if you could read some more and pose new questions and suggestions for me.

Thanks. ~CthaScott
#8

magic_mouse

Feb 05, 2008 23:14:16
This is the most comprehensive single-class system i've seen (although i can't claim to have looked very hard. I only visit the forums occasionally). I love the ideas of CP and being able to buy /almost/ whatever class abilities you want to have. I've always wanted a way to play tough arcane spellcasters, and if i have read this right, i can! I may ask my DM what he thinks of this and try it out in our next campaign (or simply resume my role as the DM for a short time to test it). How well has it worked in your group so far?
#9

cthascott

Feb 06, 2008 21:41:58
It has worked fantastic for my group and they're pleased to be able to make characters easily and get the powers and abilities that they want without having to sacrifice levels and getting stuck with things that they don't need. There were too many "tack-on" sales and in this sytem it's easy to advance as a spellcaster. We also enjoy the idea of just buying caster levels without having to buy an entire level of spellcasting. While you don't get more spells, the spells that you do have can advance at a lower cost while you enhance other aspects of your character. This sytem makes gish builds in 3.5 easy. I hope you all get a chance to use it and enjoy it like we do. Peace. ~CthaS
#10

cthascott

Feb 18, 2008 23:47:29
Anyone?
#11

half_dragon_infernal

Feb 23, 2008 11:04:38
I didn't read all of it, but I may try it sometime. I have to make sure though everyone understands it. Have you modified races at all?
#12

quoward

Feb 23, 2008 13:53:56
What about the cool maneuvers and stuff from Tome of Battle? Any chance of you adding them in?
#13

half_dragon_infernal

Feb 23, 2008 19:43:08
Look underneath invocations.
#14

cthascott

Mar 05, 2008 16:14:36
I hadn't done anything with the races but my group and I were using the races from Dawnforge which is what 4e looks to be at least modeled after. The system is actually very simple and makes the creation process take alot less time and makes everyone happier because hey can get everything that they want. ~C
#15

The_Weave05

Mar 09, 2008 17:42:22
Interesting system! I'm thoroughly enthralled with the idea, and my players seem to be quite interested. I would like to know how long you've been playing these sort of campaigns with this system and if you play high powered or low powered games, high magic or low, etc. etc. Just to make sure this is workable for an ordinarily powered campaign without imbalance problems.

Good work either way!
#16

cranewings

Mar 11, 2008 11:28:14
It is my experiance with single class fantasy that every character ends up as a fighter with stealth or a wizard with stealth. Sometimes... someone takes a healing power.
#17

cthascott

Mar 16, 2008 11:06:56
Interesting system! I'm thoroughly enthralled with the idea, and my players seem to be quite interested. I would like to know how long you've been playing these sort of campaigns with this system and if you play high powered or low powered games, high magic or low, etc. etc. Just to make sure this is workable for an ordinarily powered campaign without imbalance problems.

Good work either way!

We've run standard magic campaigns in Eberron without any problems with balance. This sytem actually is upper level power but you could easily just reduce the number of character points you give your players to make it a low powered game. It's alot of fun and makes it much easier for the players to make characters and keep them going. Besides, I cannot stress enough the ease of which NPCs can be created with this sytem, usually we as DMs just wash out some simple NPC in our minds because it would take too long otherwise. Not in this system. Now your NPC are just as detailed as the PCs and it only took you a couple of minutes rather than 20 or 30 or more minutes. Thanks. ~C
#18

cthascott

Mar 16, 2008 11:10:34
It is my experiance with single class fantasy that every character ends up as a fighter with stealth or a wizard with stealth. Sometimes... someone takes a healing power.

In a fantasy game where the PCs are usually sneaking around and investigating or just plain trying not to be seen by their enemies it makes sense that they would all take at least some stealth. But just remember that resources spent on stealth are resources not spent on your characters main function. Plus the stealth skill is available to only one archetype, everyone else has to spend a 4CP feat to gain it and THEN put ranks in it. That's a good deal of resources.
#19

khadmus

Mar 16, 2008 14:30:24
Anyone else besides the OP run this through the meat grinder?
#20

pyre_born

Mar 20, 2008 17:26:11
I personally haven't run through this myself, but I gave it to a buddy of mine to try out (a few of his players were on vacation), and he enjoyed it, said it pretty much balanced out the classes (in his opinion), and I trust him.

In fact I was thinking of using these values to figure out if my new classes are balanced with each other. I really like what I see.

If I ever get a group together, I'll try this out myself so that I can give a better statement then "my friend said it was good". But hey, it looks great, and I'll take the word of my friend any day.

Well, I hope someone has had personal experience with this, because I'd love to use this as a balancing equation when making classes!

Pace,
Pyre
#21

foton-the-lobotomist

Mar 20, 2008 23:11:08
It seems to be modified bESM d20 (which is an amazing system). Very nice. If my players weren't mostly new to the game I'd test this. I may with a more advanced group of players.
#22

cranewings

Mar 21, 2008 0:00:52
makes sense. (:
#23

cthascott

Mar 23, 2008 23:26:29
Thank you everyone for your input and enjoyment of the system. I've been using this system with veteran and newbie players with great success for over a year and some change with constant updates and changes to the system to make it more player friendly. I didn't use the BESM d20 system as a reference but I did see it after I was already done with the creation process and they do have some similarities. Thanks again. ~CthaScott
#24

wolf_bladegx

Mar 24, 2008 15:28:59
Holy frozen cocolate covered banana on a stick! .Wonderful job mate! while I agree with Asurya about using the DMG stat buy system, everything else is a mad house of well constructed chaos. :D .
#25

cthascott

Mar 25, 2008 1:40:28
Holy frozen cocolate covered banana on a stick! .Wonderful job mate! while I agree with Asurya about using the DMG stat buy system, everything else is a mad house of well constructed chaos. :D .

Thanks! :D