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wizardly neutering

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Oct 28, 2003 9:26:42 um, just wondering. why is it that with each edition of d&d, the wizard class gets more and more neutered? i mean, come on! that, and why did the cleric's weapon stuff get changed? the ad&d and classic d&d weapons were better...
#2
samsael
Oct 28, 2003 9:36:42 What what!?

Neutered?

Did I read that right?
#3
mr._vandermeer
Oct 28, 2003 9:53:10 By neutered he probably means that he thinks the wizards class get more powerful... or something? Or maybe he is being sarcastic... or maybe just plain ignorant?

I don't know.

Maybe I didn't read it right either. He can't be serious can he?
#4
zombiegleemax
Oct 28, 2003 10:47:14 I think he means that the wizard class gets LESS powerful with each version (nerfed).

That's his opinion, but I disagree with it. The d20 version is one of the best yet. Metamagic feats make spell casters much more versatile. And lets not forget spell mastery. Plus, wizards now get bonus spells (hoorah!).

As for the Cleric's weapon choices, they now better reflect the god they serve, and so I believe this to be a better choice also. To serve a god of death that has a sickle as his symbol, and then to only be able to wield blunt weapons just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Of course the cleric should be able to wield a sickle! That's what his/her god is all about.
#5
zombiegleemax
Oct 28, 2003 11:31:21 Wizards may get bonus spells in 3-3.5 and have a little more spells at low levels, but less at high levels when compared to 2nd.
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 7:40:05 i am certainly not ignorant, and by neutrering i mean that they get less spells with each new edition. they kicked butt in 1st edition, but get less and less spells per edition! why? why? ok im done ranting
#7
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 7:57:50 1ed?

they got 1 spell.

say it was magic missle. 1d4+1 damage on avg. that is 3.5hp of damage. orcs on avg had 4.5hp. it didn't even kill an orc. it just ticked him off enough to make him want to kill the 2.5 hp lousy-fighting ability magic-user.

not until about 7th lvl were m-us half way safe.

;)
#8
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 8:29:17 Neutered, as in Chopping off the important/good/fun bits....

Wizards at 1st level have an exceptionally low survival rate, and those who don't take sleep (or charm person for a bodyguard) are not likely to be going home.....

A cunning ploy I saw once to improve survival was a player in AD&D Dual Classing his first level human fighter. That way he got to run with extra hps, and improved his THACO, proficencies and Saves when he went up to 2nd Level - Without suffering XP problems. Bit Munchkin, but a nice alternative to the wizard needing 16 Con, 18 Dex (and eventually 18 Intelligence) to push past the survival barrier.

Out of a six mages I played over 12 years, only one made it above 5th level without getting killed. Once you are 5th Level you start to be on a balance (fireball/lightning bolt), once you get to 9-12 (teleport etc) you are ahead, and at 18th you ARE the master (Powerword Kill, Meteor Swarm, Wish).
#9
mr._vandermeer
Oct 29, 2003 9:16:01
A cunning ploy I saw once to improve survival was a player in AD&D Dual Classing his first level human fighter. That way he got to run with extra hps, and improved his THACO, proficencies and Saves when he went up to 2nd Level - Without suffering XP problems.

That's the trick I always used in Baldur's Gate (I calculated exactly how much fighter levels I could take without endangering the max level you could reach due to the exp. cap).

Never in PnP games though.

Oh and by the way, I understand what neutered means, I was trying to be sarcastic in my last post. Actually I thought Raistlin UberMage was either kidding, or not so well informed.
#10
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 9:42:12 Does this mean female Wizards are still okay/as powerful/acceptable?
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 9:44:13 Though a wizard did get semi-neutered by Hill Trolls in a AD&D Game, by way of a brutal club with a spike in the end (straight 20, double damage, maximum dice roll, down to -8 hp). Fortune smiled on him, the Druid managed a critical healing roll and stitched the damaged 'sack' up and onto his leg to allow some kind of healing to occur.

From Azaroth of the Crimson Flame, he became known as Addiznob of the Empty Sack...:D
#12
algolei_dup
Oct 30, 2003 8:01:22
Originally posted by jseckrosh
Does this mean female Wizards are still okay/as powerful/acceptable?

No, they get spaded.

*WHAM* dig dig dig....
#13
zombiegleemax
Oct 30, 2003 11:01:23
they kicked butt in 1st edition, but get less and less spells per edition! why? why?

They actually get more spells now due to bonus spells. See my previous post.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 9:26:42	um, just wondering. why is it that with each edition of d&d, the wizard class gets more and more neutered? i mean, come on! that, and why did the cleric's weapon stuff get changed? the ad&d and classic d&d weapons were better...
#2 samsael Oct 28, 2003 9:36:42	What what!? Neutered? Did I read that right?
#3 mr._vandermeer Oct 28, 2003 9:53:10	By neutered he probably means that he thinks the wizards class get more powerful... or something? Or maybe he is being sarcastic... or maybe just plain ignorant? I don't know. Maybe I didn't read it right either. He can't be serious can he?
#4 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 10:47:14	I think he means that the wizard class gets LESS powerful with each version (nerfed). That's his opinion, but I disagree with it. The d20 version is one of the best yet. Metamagic feats make spell casters much more versatile. And lets not forget spell mastery. Plus, wizards now get bonus spells (hoorah!). As for the Cleric's weapon choices, they now better reflect the god they serve, and so I believe this to be a better choice also. To serve a god of death that has a sickle as his symbol, and then to only be able to wield blunt weapons just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Of course the cleric should be able to wield a sickle! That's what his/her god is all about.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 11:31:21	Wizards may get bonus spells in 3-3.5 and have a little more spells at low levels, but less at high levels when compared to 2nd.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 7:40:05	i am certainly not ignorant, and by neutrering i mean that they get less spells with each new edition. they kicked butt in 1st edition, but get less and less spells per edition! why? why? ok im done ranting
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 7:57:50	1ed? they got 1 spell. say it was magic missle. 1d4+1 damage on avg. that is 3.5hp of damage. orcs on avg had 4.5hp. it didn't even kill an orc. it just ticked him off enough to make him want to kill the 2.5 hp lousy-fighting ability magic-user. not until about 7th lvl were m-us half way safe. ;)
#8 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 8:29:17	Neutered, as in Chopping off the important/good/fun bits.... Wizards at 1st level have an exceptionally low survival rate, and those who don't take sleep (or charm person for a bodyguard) are not likely to be going home..... A cunning ploy I saw once to improve survival was a player in AD&D Dual Classing his first level human fighter. That way he got to run with extra hps, and improved his THACO, proficencies and Saves when he went up to 2nd Level - Without suffering XP problems. Bit Munchkin, but a nice alternative to the wizard needing 16 Con, 18 Dex (and eventually 18 Intelligence) to push past the survival barrier. Out of a six mages I played over 12 years, only one made it above 5th level without getting killed. Once you are 5th Level you start to be on a balance (fireball/lightning bolt), once you get to 9-12 (teleport etc) you are ahead, and at 18th you ARE the master (Powerword Kill, Meteor Swarm, Wish).
#9 mr._vandermeer Oct 29, 2003 9:16:01	A cunning ploy I saw once to improve survival was a player in AD&D Dual Classing his first level human fighter. That way he got to run with extra hps, and improved his THACO, proficencies and Saves when he went up to 2nd Level - Without suffering XP problems. That's the trick I always used in Baldur's Gate (I calculated exactly how much fighter levels I could take without endangering the max level you could reach due to the exp. cap). Never in PnP games though. Oh and by the way, I understand what neutered means, I was trying to be sarcastic in my last post. Actually I thought Raistlin UberMage was either kidding, or not so well informed.
#10 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 9:42:12	Does this mean female Wizards are still okay/as powerful/acceptable?
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 9:44:13	Though a wizard did get semi-neutered by Hill Trolls in a AD&D Game, by way of a brutal club with a spike in the end (straight 20, double damage, maximum dice roll, down to -8 hp). Fortune smiled on him, the Druid managed a critical healing roll and stitched the damaged 'sack' up and onto his leg to allow some kind of healing to occur. From Azaroth of the Crimson Flame, he became known as Addiznob of the Empty Sack...:D
#12 algolei_dup Oct 30, 2003 8:01:22	Originally posted by jseckrosh Does this mean female Wizards are still okay/as powerful/acceptable? No, they get spaded. WHAM dig dig dig....
#13 zombiegleemax Oct 30, 2003 11:01:23	they kicked butt in 1st edition, but get less and less spells per edition! why? why? They actually get more spells now due to bonus spells. See my previous post.