Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 14:04:56	Trying to find/put together a compilation of PrC's that'll give +1 BAB at first level and a +1 Caster Level increase at level one. If you have any suggestions, I need casting type (Arcane, Divine, either, both, etc.), source (which book or Dragon Magazine issue), and, if you're feeling nice, entry requirements.
#2 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 14:05:43	Arcane Bladesinger Complete Warrior Elf or Half-Elf +5 BAB Combat Casting Combat Expertise Dodge Weapon Focus (Longsword or Rapier) Balance 2 Ranks Concentration 4 Ranks Perform Dance 2 Ranks Perform Sing 2 Ranks Tumble 2 Ranks Able to cast 1st-level arcane spells. Fochlucan Lyrist Complete Adventurer Dragonslayer Draconimicon +5 BAB Dodge Iron Wil Tumble 2 Ranks Spellsword Complete Warrior +4 BAB Simple Weapon Proficiency Martial Weapon Proficiency Armor Proficiency (Heavy, Medium, Light) Knowledge Arcana 6 Ranks Must be able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells. Thrall of Demogorgon BoVD BAB +4 Willing Deformity Thrall to Demon Knowledge Arcana 2 Ranks Knowledge Religion 2 Ranks Knowledge Any Other 2 Ranks Must be able to cast 1st-level spells or make sneak attacks. Chaotic Evil Thrall of Orcus BoVD BAB +4 Lichloved Thrall to Demon Knowledge Arcana 2 Ranks Knowledge Religion 2 Ranks Must be able to cast a spell of the Necromancy school. Any Evil
#3 tleilaxu_ghola Jan 21, 2006 14:06:59	[Edit: I posted too soon... or too late... depending on how you look at it.] I'll contribute the easiest one: Spellsword (CWar). Entry Req: 2nd level spells, 4 BAB. First level grants +1 BAB, +1 CL. Levels alternate thereafter w/ CLs so it makes for a great dip class.
#4 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 14:07:09	Divine Fochlucan Lyrist Complete Adventurer Sacred Fist Complete Divine Windwalker Forgotten Realms Faiths & Pantheons
#5 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 14:10:07	[Edit: I posted too soon... or too late... depending on how you look at it.] dont even worry about it, my fault. thanks for the first suggestion
#6 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2006 14:15:25	Class: Windwalker Casting: Divine Source: Forgotten Realms Faiths & Pantheons Does posting entry requirements for this violate ToS or whatever it is?
#7 zombiegleemax Jan 21, 2006 14:16:58	Bladesinger Complete Warrior Elf or Half-Elf +5 BAB Combat Casting Combat Expertise Dodge Weapon Focus (longsword or rapier) Balance 2 Ranks Concentration 4 Ranks Perform (Dance) 2 Ranks Perform (Sing) 2 Ranks Tumble 2 Ranks Able to cast 1st level Arcane spells.
#8 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 14:17:02	Does posting entry requirements for this violate ToS or whatever it is? Hmm... Good question. To be honest, I didn't even think of that. Well, we can forget that bit, if you don't feel like you should be posting it; thats fine.
#9 lyinginbedmon Jan 21, 2006 14:19:26	At 2 levels, Eldritch Knight works, you get a Bonus Feat at first level instead of the +1 CL of the other levels though, but it gives the same effect with ease. Casting: Arcane Source: Core (DMG & SRD) Entry Requirements: Must be proficient with all martial weapons. Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells
#10 Aramul Jan 21, 2006 14:20:02	Sacred Fist (CD), Fochlucan Lyrist (CAdv).
#11 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 14:21:39	At 2 levels, Eldritch Knight works, you get a Bonus Feat at first level instead of the +1 CL of the other levels though, but it gives the same effect with ease. True, but I'm trying to stay away from anything but 1 level dips for this. People making characters are often looking for easy ways to increase BAB without any caster level loss, and I thought that a specific list would be the most useful.
#12 tleilaxu_ghola Jan 21, 2006 14:51:35	This list is incredibly useful. I'm glad you started it. Gish/Psi-gish is my favorite build type. Time to subscribe to another thread. I would suggest that we compile a psi-gish list of this sort, but to my knowledge no classes fit the bill.
#13 Nifft Jan 21, 2006 15:10:55	I would suggest that we compile a psi-gish list of this sort, but to my knowledge no classes fit the bill. Yeah. Psionics are depressingly balanced in this regard. -- N
#14 lysiander Jan 21, 2006 15:32:53	Well, there is the Green Wisperer from Dragon something, but this one only adds to Bard. As far as 2+ levels go, there are the Knight Phantom and the Cyran Avenger. They dont add spellcasting at first level, but they make a decent change from the Eldritch Knight and both walk away with better Hitpoints and abilities.
#15 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 16:05:59	Well, there is the Green Wisperer from Dragon something, but this one only adds to Bard. That's fine. Does anyone know the magazine issue #?
#16 x-codes Jan 21, 2006 16:15:04	Green Whisperer does not give +1 BAB at first level, otherwise it would be really disgustingly overpowered. (I mean come on, full BAB, full music, and bard/druid casting for *skill rank* requirements?)
#17 lysiander Jan 21, 2006 16:21:50	I wouldnt mind beeing corrected, but last time I read it it gave +5 BAB, +5 Bard and +5 Druid casting along with some affect plants abilities. And yes, that along with barely any requirements is why I dont like the Dragon material. 90% is opverpowered and out of line with the "normal" material. Sorry I dont know the Issue and frankly dont have the time to go my collection right now. ;/
#18 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2006 20:25:31	I wouldnt mind beeing corrected, but last time I read it it gave +5 BAB, +5 Bard and +5 Druid casting along with some affect plants abilities. And yes, that along with barely any requirements is why I dont like the Dragon material. 90% is opverpowered and out of line with the "normal" material. Sorry I dont know the Issue and frankly dont have the time to go my collection right now. ;/ That's ok, I'm sure it'll come up eventually. This is also a liiiiittle bit of a bump, just in case there's a few more possibles for the list.
#19 pyro_cat May 14, 2006 20:26:27	I haven't updated this in a while... with the new stuff coming out; are we missing anything?
#20 tweedledope May 14, 2006 21:02:20	I don't mean to hijack but, I'm looking for a build with these guidelines that I've seen before. It is very powerful thanks to tons of Smites, 9/10 Casters, +10 BAB... It's a combination of Prestige Paladin, Cleric and Fist of Raziel...anyone know the exact build? Thanks!! -=TD=-
#21 zombiegleemax May 15, 2006 3:32:35	Cleric 7/Prestige paladin 3/Fist of Raziel and Cleric 3/Church inquisitor 4/Prestige paladin 3/Fist of Raziel are the most common ones. 18 BAB 18 levels of casting, good smiting and other goodies. Both of the builds eat feats though, as both Prestige paladin and Fist of Raziel require a number of them.
#22 zombiegleemax May 15, 2006 5:36:39	Verdant Lore from Master of the Wild(divine) Profession(herbalist) 8 ranks, Survival 8 ranks Feat : Plant Control, Plant Dfiance Able to cast control plant As a class, the Duskblade and Hexblade qualify
#23 ikeren Oct 10, 2006 21:23:53	Abjurant Champion from Complete Mage ABJURANT CHAMPION Prerequisites: BAB +5, Combat Casting feat, must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including one abjuration, must be proficient with at least one martial weapon - Possibly skill requirements, not certain. ---5-level prestige class ---HD d10 ---Good BAB ---+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class for all 5 levels
#24 tweedledope Oct 10, 2006 22:16:59	Abjurant Champion from Complete Mage ABJURANT CHAMPION Prerequisites: BAB +5, Combat Casting feat, must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including one abjuration, must be proficient with at least one martial weapon - Possibly skill requirements, not certain. ---5-level prestige class ---HD d10 ---Good BAB ---+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class for all 5 levels This just screams Duskblade...
#25 phoenix00 Oct 10, 2006 22:29:05	I wouldnt mind beeing corrected, but last time I read it it gave +5 BAB, +5 Bard and +5 Druid casting along with some affect plants abilities. And yes, that along with barely any requirements is why I dont like the Dragon material. 90% is opverpowered and out of line with the "normal" material. Sorry I dont know the Issue and frankly dont have the time to go my collection right now. ;/ Dragon Magazine 311 p69. Its 3/4 BAB, still a nice prestige class since a Druid 4/Bard 1/Green Whisperer 5/Arcane Hierophant 10 nets you 19 Druid/16 Bard Casting. It also is a good start for Fochulan Lyrist. Sorry though it isn't full bab though and thus doesn't belong in this thread.
#26 friendlyfrog Oct 11, 2006 1:06:43	Thrall of Eltab, page 134 of Champions of Ruin. Can be qualified with Wizard 5, gives +1 BAB, +1 caster level, and proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and all armor.
#27 inkubus Oct 12, 2006 11:03:24	This just screams Duskblade... Exactely what I was thinking, too. Hmmm, that might be worthwhile for my current Duskblade 5/ Warblade 5/ Jade Phoenix Mage 10 build project. Maybe something like Duskblade 5/ Warblade 1/ Jade Phoenix Mage 9/ Abjurant Champion 5? Well, that's only IL 15 instead of 17 but now I have CL 17 instead of 14 which means channelled disintegrates or polar rays. :D Well, so that's another book I'll have to get then...
#28 zombiegleemax Oct 12, 2006 16:13:28	This just screams Duskblade... Warmage, dread necromancer, beguiler, or battle sorcerer would be able to qualify as well.
#29 zombiegleemax Oct 12, 2006 16:32:17	Sacred Fist from pg 59 of Complete Divine. Some pretty steep requirements for non-monks, but it's full BAB, and the first 3 levels also advance Divine spellcasting.
#30 blue23 Oct 13, 2006 7:46:46	I don't think I've seen people post the Grey Hand Enforcer from the Waterdeep book. IIRC it's 5 for 5. Cheers, =Blue(23)
#31 zombiegleemax Oct 13, 2006 8:23:32	I don't think I've seen people post the Grey Hand Enforcer from the Waterdeep book. IIRC it's 5 for 5. Cheers, =Blue(23) It's 4/5, but it's pretty damned solid (SR, DR, full BAB, 4/5 casting, d10). The feat requirements are awful, though.
#32 zombiegleemax Oct 13, 2006 10:02:53	for psi-gish try the atavist from races of eberron, im pretty sure it states that all levels of atavist stack with manifesterlevels and monk progressions. i will asault you with the fists of my mind. KAMIKAZE!
#33 ikeren Nov 23, 2006 15:31:21	There was something from Return to Castle Ravenloft's CS book that had full BAB and 9/10ths casting, but I think the missed level was at 5? Anyone have the book...
#34 pyro_cat Jan 21, 2007 14:23:24	This should totally get updated and integrated into some gish resource, but I don't have the time. I'm bumping it in hope that someone will take the information and update it, then put it to good use.
#35 gellor Jan 21, 2007 23:16:00	Verdant Lord - MoW
#36 strenoth Jan 22, 2007 1:50:00	This just screams Duskblade... well, except for the whole bit about not even having Shield on their class list.
#37 tleilaxu_ghola Jan 22, 2007 2:09:44	well, except for the whole bit about not even having Shield on their class list. They do have one abjuration spell, the name escapes me, but they do qualify.
#38 zombiegleemax Jan 22, 2007 7:13:20	They do have one abjuration spell, the name escapes me, but they do qualify. Deflect and Lesser Deflect. Immediate action shield bonus. Not to mention Dispelling Touch, Slashing Dispel, Dispel Magic, Resist Energy and Protection from Energy... all of which are Abjuration and would benefit from the Abjurant Champions ability to cast all Abjuration spells as if they were quickened.
#39 gawainbs Jul 07, 2007 8:45:01	And what would you exactly gain as a duskblade for becoming AC? I don't think it's worth it, as opposed to the Classic gish. For psy-gishes: The Slayer from SRD.
#40 friendlyfrog Jul 07, 2007 11:52:42	And what would you exactly gain as a duskblade for becoming AC? I don't think it's worth it, as opposed to the Classic gish. But what would you lose? +2 more Spell power, one more use of Quick cast and +1 base Fortitude save. Not that much, really. Of course, you don't get as much goodies as a standard gish does, but I'd say it's still worth it. Well, assuming you're going to take an abjuration spell anyway. As Duskblades know so few spells that very well might not be the case.
#41 chimaera2000 Jul 07, 2007 12:55:13	There was something from Return to Castle Ravenloft's CS book that had full BAB and 9/10ths casting, but I think the missed level was at 5? Anyone have the book... Knight of the Raven from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. Full BAB, d8 Hit Die, good Fort and Will saves, 9/10 divine spellcasting and 8/10 turning alongside some neat special abilities. All of this for virtually no prerequisites.
#42 ikeren Jul 07, 2007 13:59:45	I'll take your word on it, that was some time ago and I don't remember the PRC at all anymore... :D
#43 dirkformica Jul 07, 2007 16:16:20	Knight of the Raven from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft loses its caster level at 1st. So no +1Bab/Caster level at first level here.
#44 mark1975 Mar 23, 2008 19:42:33	Is there a current, updated list of Gishes? trying to make one and everything ive seen in the archives is outdated. thanks mark
#45 Endarire Sep 28, 2008 17:57:57	Go go gadget resuscitate!
#46 Endarire Mar 03, 2009 21:02:47	Bump for the month!
#47 mister_crowley Mar 04, 2009 1:17:19	Knight Phantom from Eberron Five Nations, has +1 BAB and 9/10's casting, very similiar to the Eldritch Knight, only with harder prerequisites and some better abilities.
#48 thantis Jul 05, 2009 22:18:45	Did anyone post the Rauthmari Battlemage?
#49 Endarire Jul 06, 2009 0:43:20	Bump.
#50 pithica Jul 06, 2009 14:03:56	From the same Dragon as Green Whisperer (311) comes.... Battle Howler of Gruumsh Full BAB Full Bardic Casting Rage Increase (in both both range and bonus) to IC Full Bardic Music 5 levels Requires- Orc or Half-orc Power Attack, Cleave Bardic music and some skills Patron deity of Gruumsh. That's from memory though.
#51 Endarire Feb 22, 2010 17:29:51	Save!