I'm allowing level-adjustment reduction, so with 15 or fewer racial hit dice, a +7 or lower level adjustment can be bought off. I'm looking for recommendations that I can provide to my players for races or templates for each base class (and recommendations for prestige classes at upper levels).
The ideas I have had so far (beyond what the handbooks suggest, since level adjustment reduction is relatively easy):
(Anthropomorphic animals are possible, of course, but I'm not adding them to these lists, as it would take too long to search through them all)
Barbarian:
Lycanthrope
Half-Dragon
Mineral Warrior
Half-Ogre
Ogre
Bard:
Lillend
Cleric:
Drider
Lammasu
Trumpet Archon (LA +8)
Druid:
Nymph
Sorcerer:
Any true dragon
Rakshasa
Couatl
Wizard:
Black Ethergaunt
Does anyone else have any suggestions? It might be beneficial to keep racial hit dice down to maximize class levels, thus maximizing bonus epic feats for single-classed characters. I'm mostly open to templates that can be used to augment abilities for each class.
Rules of the Game: Monstrous Conundrums[/url]"]When a creature of the humanoid type with one racial Hit Die or fewer gains its first class level, the racial Hit Die is dropped in favor of the class Hit Die. Creatures of other types simply add the class Hit Die to their existing Hit Dice, even if they have only one racial Hit Die. (The text dealing with monsters as races in the Dungeon Master's Guide doesn't make this clear, but the text in the Monster Manual does; see page 290). If the creature has levels from other classes, the Hit Die from the new class is added to the creature's total Hit Dice.
Emphasis mine.
If they were pure humanoid, they would replace their one hit die with their first class hit die, but as monstrous humanoids, they do not gain that special ability.
Additionally, with the ability to get rid of up to a +7 level adjustment, offering +0 Level Adjustment potentials is rather limited. I am looking for templates that can be added that will allow me to take advantage of the level adjustment reduction.
Sharn. Totally. And Phaerimm. And Paragons.
Sharn? Are you discussing the city in the Eberron campaign setting? I searched for it in the SHLfCO thread, but didn't find it. Same with Phaerimm. I found the Paragon Creature template in the SRD, although it has no level adjustment listed, so it does not seem as though it was intended as a character option, but rather as an option to make challenging opponents.
Specific trumps general.
Actually, as it says in Savage Species, with an anthropomorphic animal with 1 HD, such as the bat, replaces the HD with its first class level.
Specific trumps general.
Savage Species was a 3.0 sourcebook. 3.5 rules trump 3.0 rules.
Also, unless updated, 3.0 works with 3.5. It has not been updated and is therefore considered acceptable for 3.5 in its current form. Therefore, it is usable as a 3.5 rulebook. Again, specific trumps general.
That rule you mentioned already existed in 3.0, and this was an exception to it then. Why should that change when the rule hasn't?
Also, unless updated, 3.0 works with 3.5. It has not been updated and is therefore considered acceptable for 3.5 in its current form. Therefore, it is usable as a 3.5 rulebook. Again, specific trumps general.
Wrong. The original rule was any one hit die creature would drop his one hit die. 3.5 updated it to only humanoids.
Check page 22 of the 3.0 DMG or page 14 of the 3.0 MM. Note how they do not limit it to only humanoids. They say any creature with 1 HD drops it when gaining a class level. 3.5 changed this, and thus it is a new rule. It overrules the reference from Savage Species, which is going by the 3.0 rules.
Due to a lack of supporting evidence, I concede the point. Continue the thread.
EDIT: It's still a freakin' awesome race for druid though.
Monster of Legend is fun, but not optimal... Dark, but you can buy that. Shadow is fun.
EDIT: Yeah, all my groups suck at optimization, so I'm been optimizing fun more than power recently.
All the good ones I can think of are wasted on wildshaping druids
Monster of Legend is fun, but not optimal... Dark, but you can buy that. Shadow is fun.
EDIT: Yeah, all my groups suck at optimization, so I'm been optimizing fun more than power recently.
Examples of templates with potential:
For Barbarian:
Lycanthrope (it adds animal hit dice and a +2 or +3 level adjustment for a TON of strength boost).
Half-Dragon (it adds a ton of strength)
Mineral Warrior (it adds a ton of awesome abilities in general)
For Bard:
Anything that increases Charisma is a viable option. Anything that increases perform is also a good choice. Any flavorful special abilities are welcomed.
Possibly Half-Celestial or Half-Fiend?
For Cleric/Druid:
Half-Celestial (+4 Wis/+4 Cha)?
...
These are the types of things I'm looking for. Half-Celestial is a +4 level adjustment template. That is easily bought off by 100th level.
Mind Flayer 8/Something 2/Illithid savant 90.
44 acquired skills
44 acquired feats
29 acquired class features
22 acquired special qualities
Sharn? Are you discussing the city in the Eberron campaign setting? I searched for it in the SHLfCO thread, but didn't find it. Same with Phaerimm. I found the Paragon Creature template in the SRD, although it has no level adjustment listed, so it does not seem as though it was intended as a character option, but rather as an option to make challenging opponents.
They're in the Monsters of Faerun and in the Monsters of Faerun update booklet; I didn't know it was an Eberronian campaign (I rescind the suggestion).
Sharn is a beast. Cleric and Sorcerous casting based on HD. Casts 3 spells per turn. about a +7 LA and 8 racial HD, if I remember correctly. A L93 Sharn could cast as a L100 Sorcerer, Cleric, and then have 93 levels of another class.
Phaerim is less powerful, as they only get Sorcerous casting based on HD, but its only +2 LA (potentially). Sylph has the same ability, but is like +5 LA and 3 HD (plus, you don't have to look like a windsock).
In the DMG 2 on p 160 there's a +5 LA template entitled "Vestigial Twin" which allows one to get an extra standard action per round (verbal only). I'm not convinced its "totally" worth it, but there's some other stuff in the same section which is worth looking at.
They're in the Monsters of Faerun and in the Monsters of Faerun update booklet; I didn't know it was an Eberronian campaign (I rescind the suggestion).
Sharn is a beast. Cleric and Sorcerous casting based on HD. Casts 3 spells per turn. about a +7 LA and 8 racial HD, if I remember correctly. A L93 Sharn could cast as a L100 Sorcerer, Cleric, and then have 93 levels of another class.
Phaerim is less powerful, as they only get Sorcerous casting based on HD, but its only +2 LA (potentially). Sylph has the same ability, but is like +5 LA and 3 HD (plus, you don't have to look like a windsock).
In the DMG 2 on p 160 there's a +5 LA template entitled "Vestigial Twin" which allows one to get an extra standard action per round (verbal only). I'm not convinced its "totally" worth it, but there's some other stuff in the same section which is worth looking at.
Oh awesome! Thank you! No, this is not an Eberronian campaign, but the only reference I knew of for "Sharn" was the Eberron city :P. I will grab my copies of those books and get to reading! :D
Sharn is a beast. Cleric and Sorcerous casting based on RACIAL HD
Fixed for you. It goes for Sylph too.
Also, Sharn is 4HD without LA (not 0 LA, - LA, e.g it's not a playable race), so it doesn't really matter.
Fixed for you. It goes for Sylph too.
Also, Sharn is 4HD without LA (not 0 LA, - LA, e.g it's not a playable race), so it doesn't really matter.
Well thats debatable. Its super-epic, so the looser interpretation might apply. I think they state that classes that add spellcasting stack w/ the racial HD, so Mystic Theurge et al might still apply.
EDIT: Sharn is +5 LA. Check out the PGtF 3.5 Monsterous web enhancement here. Also has the Phaerimm; Phaerimm casting is stated to stack w/ racial spells, and is worded poorly such that 1 level of sorcerer could add two levels of casting under the loosest interpretation.
Lots of Metamagic stacking with spells such as magic missile or the orb spells
1 level of Sanctified One of Kord for divine damage
10 levels of Master Transmogrifist for infinite variety. Use infinite variety to add Lighting Strike (EX) from the dire tortutise to your main form so you always go first.
Now throw on all those magic spells with near infinte damage.
Or be an illithid savant and just steal the same abilities and more from your forms.
why not add FoI to that combo phoenix, so we get even more boom from always going first.
I figured I didn't have to say it. If you are taking 11 levels of Factotum you are going to take Font of Inspiration. Factotum is just not Factotum without FoI
Heck, I would go with some sort of Epic paragon for the outrageous abilities, stack on templates galore, throw in whatever class abilities I wanted (mettle, improved evasion, and say divine grace of a sort just for giggles), immunity to as many effects as possible in EX form if possible (SU if not), and then go from there.
Symbiotic Creature (+1 level adjustment, requires both creatures to be of the following types: animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin)
I mean, what sorts of creatures are available here? How about a level 100 humanoid spellcaster? Its hit dice don't matter according to the template. Heck, it could be a level NI (nigh infinite) humanoid, and only the treant's hit dice would affect its total level :P. The symbiotic creature can't really use the spellcasting of the guest creature, but it gains all of the feats of the guest creature as bonus feats... that gives it essentially as many feats as it would like.
And then we can give the treant another +1 level adjustment template and stack on 93 levels of a spellcasting class.
Honestly, it is just interesting templates that I'm interested in. I think I'll just use a bunch of the half- templates.
epic basketweaver.... ill see what i can figure out.
What, he has a portal to the elemental plane of wicker? He attempts to wicker cocoon his opponents? One time, he forgot to close his portal, and the resultant "wickering" coated the forests, killing all of the ground vegetation. The poor dire elephants nearly died out, but eventually adapted, learning to climb the massive trees to reach the leafy tops! Which explains why dire elephants have a climb speed?
your caster level improve after epic. still, a single-classed character would be HORRIBLE.
Not really. You'd get a bazillion bonus epic feats. Multispell x 30 + Autoquicken x3 = OMGWTFBBQ.
I can't even imagine how powerful a character with cheesed out Epic Leadership and Epic Spellcasting could be at that level. Well... yes I can, actually.
What's the Epic Red Wizard like? What kind of insane caster level can you get at that point?
Templates don't really matter much. You can get anything you want from them via Epic spell abuse, and much more.
but yeah, templates dont matter a lot.epic red wizard: if the amount of people they can have in their circle increases, then OMFG.
Or, you know, Arabic.
Since it is a one shot, the very first thing I banned was epic spells. They are going to be too much hassle. Why bother? Stuff is broken enough without them.
Jesus... you should put stuff like that in the OP. That's kind of big...
Jesus... you should put stuff like that in the OP. That's kind of big...
Lol, I could have sworn that I had put that in my OP, but you are absolutely right, I forgot to. I updated it now to include that info. I apologize for that! My bad!