10th level Whisper Gnome build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

10th level Whisper Gnome build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Pramxnim
Mar 17, 2009 0:31:49 I just recently thought of a random 10th lvl character build for a campaign using 32-point buy for stats. The basic premise is a sneaky gish-lite, wand user that uses his size to his advantage. The build is at lvl 10 right now, but this campaign will likely progress very rapidly, so I'm planning it up to level 20.

Here's what I have so far:

Race: Whisper Gnome
Class: Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 3/ Suel Arcanamach 1/ Abjurant Champion 2
Likely progression: Abjurant Champion 3/ Suel Arcanamach 3/ Rogue 4

Stats: Str 8 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 15

Items:
+1 Keen Enfeebling Rapier (18300gp)
+2 Mithral Breastplate (8350gp)

Wands:
0th lvl:
Wand of Acid Splash / Ray of Frost/ Electric Jolt/ Acid Splash (w/ Fire energy substitution metamagic)
i.e. 4 lvl 0 wands

1st lvl:
Wand of:
Shield
Fist of Stone (Spell Compendium p94)
Enlarge Person
Ray of Clumsiness (SpC 166)
Detect Secret Doors
Lesser Vigor (SpC 229)

2nd lvl:
Wand of:
Ray of Stupidity (SpC 167)
Split Ray Energy Sub (Acid) Ray of Frost

Wand Bracer (300gp, Dungeonscape p30)
Wand Chamber (100gp, Dungeonscape p30)
Heward's Handy Haversack
Masterwork Thieves' tools + Masterwork Tools (for UMD)

Feats:
Lvl 1: Iron Will, Dodge (Flaw), Titan Fighting (Flaw, RoS 145)
Lvl 3: Combat Casting
Lvl 6: Daring Outlaw
Lvl 9: Underfoot Combat (RoTW 152)

Flaws:
Vulnerable (-1 to AC)
Inattentive (-4 to Listen and Spot)

Spells:
1st lvl:
Shield
Nerveskitter (SpC 146)

2nd lvl:
Invisibility
Mirror Image

Right now, I have access to 2 lvl 1 and 2 lvl 2 spells from the Abjuration, Divination, Illusion and Transmutation schools. I didn't pick Alter Self because I don't want to abuse it (and also I'd like to avoid bookkeeping).
I have this character set on advancing to level 16, where he gets access to lvl 5 spells, a Caster Level of 14 (his BAB) and a bunch of other goodies, including the ability to quadruple the duration of abjuration spells.

What I'd like some advice on is feat choices past level 12 (which is going to be Confound the Big Folk from Races of the Wild) and possibly an alternative to the last 4 Rogue levels. Suggestions for items and/or spells would also be much appreciated.

Just to clear up a few things: I'd prefer no template and/or LA > 0 Races (though picking the Whisper Gnome is a sure sign of powergaming, I don't want to go further than that). Homebrew is a touchy subject, because a few players in the group have an unhealthy aversion towards it, and though I find it silly, I want to make this as rules-legal as possible. Not trying to overoptimize it, I'd just like something that would be fun to play with.

And so, here we are. Feel free to go nuts! :P
#2
Pramxnim
Mar 17, 2009 17:53:34

Am I being too specific in my requests? Is there no interest in such a build? First and only bump before I let this go into obscurity
#3
phaedrusxy
Mar 17, 2009 17:58:05 Isn't Suel Arcanamach a Cha based caster? And doesn't Whisper gnome get a -2 to Cha? (I say this having build a warforged Suel Arcanamach in the past... so I can understand even if it does, if you just definitely want that race. :P )

Also, what about just going with a standard build like Spellthief 1/Wiz5/Unseen Seer? It basically does what you're wanting to do, with more casting. I could understand going the way you are too, though, for some games, and I do like the Suel Arc./Abj. Champ. combo.
#4
Pramxnim
Mar 17, 2009 18:25:35 Indeed they do get a -2 to Cha, but most of my spells will be buffs anyways, so saves are not important. I would much prefer the 30ft movement speed.

I absolutely abhorr playing as a wizard (or any class that needs to prepare spell slots each day. Urgh the bookkeeping...), no offense to anyone who do enjoy them. Also I'd like to try out the Suel Arcanamach after happening upon the handbook very recently.

After some thinking, I think I'll replace one 2nd level wand with a wand of Wraithstrike and hit people's 10 base ACs on sneak attacks. With that wand in my wand chamber, I can do it all the time, reliably too.

Any suggestions on spell selections and feats for lvl 15 and 18?
#5
sofawall
Mar 17, 2009 22:32:36 Not always AC 10, only if they're flat-footed as well. Sneak attack doesn't make them flat-footed you know.
#6
Pramxnim
Mar 17, 2009 23:00:53 I was implying that this character would hit AC 10 when he catches an opponent flat-footed, i.e. when he is carrying out a sneak attack. Sorry if that was unclear.
#7
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Mar 17, 2009 23:37:16 Rogue 2/ Swash 3/ Beguiler 5/ Unseen Seer 10

Gets rid of the need for Iron Will! Int based casting in light armor with no need to prepare spells and great synergy with rogue. Unseen Seer nets you Hunters Eye for even more sneak attack damage.

Feats to consider:
1. Magic in the Blood, Silencing Strike (yeah Whisper Gnome!), Craven, 2x Flaws
3. Dodge
6. Titan Fighting
9. Mobility
12. Elusive Target
15. Darkstalker
18. Spring Attack, Hamstring, Staggering Strike, Underfoot Combat, or any sneaky stabby feat really...

For gear: Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (the always on one), Gauntlet of Infinite Blades, Ring of the Darkhidden, and any of the gear mentioned here The New Beguiler Handbook 2008 would really work for most sneaky caster builds. Also the skill tricks mentioned there might be useful for you as well.
#8
dr_rocktopus
Mar 17, 2009 23:45:58 One of the best sneaking item load-outs I've ever found is this:

Collar of Umbral (mentioned already)
Ring of Blink.
Weapon of Ghost-Touch.

It's very hard to get a miss chance against spells, and even if they bring see invisible, it's better than nada. Crucially, between this set of items you can sneak at pretty much any time, from my perspective, since how bright can a light shine on you when you're only half there? How does that even work?
Further, if you stick with force spells and abjuration, which is a pretty wide set, it's a completely asymmetric load out. Oh and while see invisible will pin you down, true seeing will only work if they're currently focused on seeing into the astral. What that means is up to the GM.
#9
Pramxnim
Mar 18, 2009 0:31:08 Thank you all for the suggestions.

@gorfnad: Your build sounds really interesting, and it's true that this character is practically starving for feats (and w/ no real viable way to do damage outside of sneak attack). I'd gladly pick up that build any day, but I'm really itching to try out the Suel Arcanamach/ Abjurant Champion combo, aiming to be more of a buff inclined char. I'd probably still build a character like you suggested as a substitute though. Definitely sounds fun to play.

@Dr Rocktopus: Ring of blink looks good, though I'd rather go with a Truedeath Crystal than adding the Ghost Touch property to my weapon. The synergy is really good between those two.

So it would seem I'm set on what items to get my DM to throw into the game (he's VERY liberal with this) and potential feat choices. I know about skill tricks and I'll be mostly taking the ones that would help me escape from grapples. This character is starving for skill points though, which is a pity despite the decent Int.
Is there a good way to tweak this build (while keeping the PrCs mostly intact) to get more feats?

Oh and as a side note, has anyone ever attempted to play a Specialist Abjurer 3/ Master Specialist 10/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7? It's very very specific, but the build looks so... complete that it's a shame not to see in play, even if it was a Wizard build. Any thoughts on that?

Edit: Let me be blasphemous and suggest a FOCUSED specialist Abjurer 3 instead. It's very very focused and probably ineffective in a lot of cases, but meh. At least it's less bookkeeping (hopefully).

EDIT 2: Or a Focused Specialist Conjurer 3/ Master Specialist 10/ XX 7 using the Rapid Summoning variant. Summon monster as a swift action, anyone?
#10
dr_rocktopus
Mar 18, 2009 0:52:50 Does a truedeath crystal negate your miss chance? :: curious ::
#11
Pramxnim
Mar 18, 2009 1:30:24 The Lesser Truedeath crystal gives your weapon the Ghost Touch special ability, so yes, yes it does.
Greater Truedeath Crystal allows you to Sneak Attack and crit undead. Hurray!
#12
dr_rocktopus
Mar 18, 2009 2:28:08 That tastes an awful lot like sweet victory to me!
#13
reis
Mar 18, 2009 2:51:50 yeah i think by RAW the lesser true death crystal gives the weaon ghost touch against all creatures not just undead, which is pretty underpriced IMO.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Pramxnim Mar 17, 2009 0:31:49	I just recently thought of a random 10th lvl character build for a campaign using 32-point buy for stats. The basic premise is a sneaky gish-lite, wand user that uses his size to his advantage. The build is at lvl 10 right now, but this campaign will likely progress very rapidly, so I'm planning it up to level 20. Here's what I have so far: Race: Whisper Gnome Class: Rogue 4 / Swashbuckler 3/ Suel Arcanamach 1/ Abjurant Champion 2 Likely progression: Abjurant Champion 3/ Suel Arcanamach 3/ Rogue 4 Stats: Str 8 Dex 16 Con 16 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 15 Items: +1 Keen Enfeebling Rapier (18300gp) +2 Mithral Breastplate (8350gp) Wands: 0th lvl: Wand of Acid Splash / Ray of Frost/ Electric Jolt/ Acid Splash (w/ Fire energy substitution metamagic) i.e. 4 lvl 0 wands 1st lvl: Wand of: Shield Fist of Stone (Spell Compendium p94) Enlarge Person Ray of Clumsiness (SpC 166) Detect Secret Doors Lesser Vigor (SpC 229) 2nd lvl: Wand of: Ray of Stupidity (SpC 167) Split Ray Energy Sub (Acid) Ray of Frost Wand Bracer (300gp, Dungeonscape p30) Wand Chamber (100gp, Dungeonscape p30) Heward's Handy Haversack Masterwork Thieves' tools + Masterwork Tools (for UMD) Feats: Lvl 1: Iron Will, Dodge (Flaw), Titan Fighting (Flaw, RoS 145) Lvl 3: Combat Casting Lvl 6: Daring Outlaw Lvl 9: Underfoot Combat (RoTW 152) Flaws: Vulnerable (-1 to AC) Inattentive (-4 to Listen and Spot) Spells: 1st lvl: Shield Nerveskitter (SpC 146) 2nd lvl: Invisibility Mirror Image Right now, I have access to 2 lvl 1 and 2 lvl 2 spells from the Abjuration, Divination, Illusion and Transmutation schools. I didn't pick Alter Self because I don't want to abuse it (and also I'd like to avoid bookkeeping). I have this character set on advancing to level 16, where he gets access to lvl 5 spells, a Caster Level of 14 (his BAB) and a bunch of other goodies, including the ability to quadruple the duration of abjuration spells. What I'd like some advice on is feat choices past level 12 (which is going to be Confound the Big Folk from Races of the Wild) and possibly an alternative to the last 4 Rogue levels. Suggestions for items and/or spells would also be much appreciated. Just to clear up a few things: I'd prefer no template and/or LA > 0 Races (though picking the Whisper Gnome is a sure sign of powergaming, I don't want to go further than that). Homebrew is a touchy subject, because a few players in the group have an unhealthy aversion towards it, and though I find it silly, I want to make this as rules-legal as possible. Not trying to overoptimize it, I'd just like something that would be fun to play with. And so, here we are. Feel free to go nuts! :P
#2 Pramxnim Mar 17, 2009 17:53:34	Am I being too specific in my requests? Is there no interest in such a build? First and only bump before I let this go into obscurity
#3 phaedrusxy Mar 17, 2009 17:58:05	Isn't Suel Arcanamach a Cha based caster? And doesn't Whisper gnome get a -2 to Cha? (I say this having build a warforged Suel Arcanamach in the past... so I can understand even if it does, if you just definitely want that race. :P ) Also, what about just going with a standard build like Spellthief 1/Wiz5/Unseen Seer? It basically does what you're wanting to do, with more casting. I could understand going the way you are too, though, for some games, and I do like the Suel Arc./Abj. Champ. combo.
#4 Pramxnim Mar 17, 2009 18:25:35	Indeed they do get a -2 to Cha, but most of my spells will be buffs anyways, so saves are not important. I would much prefer the 30ft movement speed. I absolutely abhorr playing as a wizard (or any class that needs to prepare spell slots each day. Urgh the bookkeeping...), no offense to anyone who do enjoy them. Also I'd like to try out the Suel Arcanamach after happening upon the handbook very recently. After some thinking, I think I'll replace one 2nd level wand with a wand of Wraithstrike and hit people's 10 base ACs on sneak attacks. With that wand in my wand chamber, I can do it all the time, reliably too. Any suggestions on spell selections and feats for lvl 15 and 18?
#5 sofawall Mar 17, 2009 22:32:36	Not always AC 10, only if they're flat-footed as well. Sneak attack doesn't make them flat-footed you know.
#6 Pramxnim Mar 17, 2009 23:00:53	I was implying that this character would hit AC 10 when he catches an opponent flat-footed, i.e. when he is carrying out a sneak attack. Sorry if that was unclear.
#7 gorfnad_the_shiznit Mar 17, 2009 23:37:16	Rogue 2/ Swash 3/ Beguiler 5/ Unseen Seer 10 Gets rid of the need for Iron Will! Int based casting in light armor with no need to prepare spells and great synergy with rogue. Unseen Seer nets you Hunters Eye for even more sneak attack damage. Feats to consider: 1. Magic in the Blood, Silencing Strike (yeah Whisper Gnome!), Craven, 2x Flaws 3. Dodge 6. Titan Fighting 9. Mobility 12. Elusive Target 15. Darkstalker 18. Spring Attack, Hamstring, Staggering Strike, Underfoot Combat, or any sneaky stabby feat really... For gear: Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (the always on one), Gauntlet of Infinite Blades, Ring of the Darkhidden, and any of the gear mentioned here The New Beguiler Handbook 2008 would really work for most sneaky caster builds. Also the skill tricks mentioned there might be useful for you as well.
#8 dr_rocktopus Mar 17, 2009 23:45:58	One of the best sneaking item load-outs I've ever found is this: Collar of Umbral (mentioned already) Ring of Blink. Weapon of Ghost-Touch. It's very hard to get a miss chance against spells, and even if they bring see invisible, it's better than nada. Crucially, between this set of items you can sneak at pretty much any time, from my perspective, since how bright can a light shine on you when you're only half there? How does that even work? Further, if you stick with force spells and abjuration, which is a pretty wide set, it's a completely asymmetric load out. Oh and while see invisible will pin you down, true seeing will only work if they're currently focused on seeing into the astral. What that means is up to the GM.
#9 Pramxnim Mar 18, 2009 0:31:08	Thank you all for the suggestions. @gorfnad: Your build sounds really interesting, and it's true that this character is practically starving for feats (and w/ no real viable way to do damage outside of sneak attack). I'd gladly pick up that build any day, but I'm really itching to try out the Suel Arcanamach/ Abjurant Champion combo, aiming to be more of a buff inclined char. I'd probably still build a character like you suggested as a substitute though. Definitely sounds fun to play. @Dr Rocktopus: Ring of blink looks good, though I'd rather go with a Truedeath Crystal than adding the Ghost Touch property to my weapon. The synergy is really good between those two. So it would seem I'm set on what items to get my DM to throw into the game (he's VERY liberal with this) and potential feat choices. I know about skill tricks and I'll be mostly taking the ones that would help me escape from grapples. This character is starving for skill points though, which is a pity despite the decent Int. Is there a good way to tweak this build (while keeping the PrCs mostly intact) to get more feats? Oh and as a side note, has anyone ever attempted to play a Specialist Abjurer 3/ Master Specialist 10/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7? It's very very specific, but the build looks so... complete that it's a shame not to see in play, even if it was a Wizard build. Any thoughts on that? Edit: Let me be blasphemous and suggest a FOCUSED specialist Abjurer 3 instead. It's very very focused and probably ineffective in a lot of cases, but meh. At least it's less bookkeeping (hopefully). EDIT 2: Or a Focused Specialist Conjurer 3/ Master Specialist 10/ XX 7 using the Rapid Summoning variant. Summon monster as a swift action, anyone?
#10 dr_rocktopus Mar 18, 2009 0:52:50	Does a truedeath crystal negate your miss chance? :: curious ::
#11 Pramxnim Mar 18, 2009 1:30:24	The Lesser Truedeath crystal gives your weapon the Ghost Touch special ability, so yes, yes it does. Greater Truedeath Crystal allows you to Sneak Attack and crit undead. Hurray!
#12 dr_rocktopus Mar 18, 2009 2:28:08	That tastes an awful lot like sweet victory to me!
#13 reis Mar 18, 2009 2:51:50	yeah i think by RAW the lesser true death crystal gives the weaon ghost touch against all creatures not just undead, which is pretty underpriced IMO.