There will be a few changes from the old challenge to fit in with our member count, and play style. Iv been put in charge of the charecters, so i come with my hat in my hand, to the CO board.
I need help creating a group of interesting and optimized lvl 11 charecters that will be run thrue a gauntlet of trials.
Rules
Only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
35 point buy [as described in the dmg, page 169]
Any 3.5 book
Max HP at first level, averege HP at every subsequent level
Standard Wealth for level
Max 25% of max gold spend on 1 item, and no custom items.
Single use items, and consumable items will have thier price increased 5x
Banned Subjects
Loops not allowed [Pun-Pun, and other ways where you can gain unlimited, or near infinite turns/hp/attacks/etc]
No Candle of Invocation
Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange tree removed
Leadership Feat [And any variations like Undead Leadership and so on.]
Setting
When all is set up, we will be using the charecters over several nights, or even weekends, depending on how smooth things runs.
We will be picking 10 charecters to use for the competition. The players who will be playing the charecters is all DnD players, and as such has a good understanding of the rules and such, but not everyone is full time CO's.
There will be 3 gauntlets to run.
Mass Player Versus Player
This setting is a small habor town. There will be small enclosed buildings, allyways, the habor with a few ships, and a forrest all around the town.
Spawn places is random, and can be either at the edge of the forrest, inside a house, or ship. None of the spawn points will have line of sight to any of the other points.
Object of this part, is last man standing.
Points given for killing/disabling people, and being last man standing.
1 point per kill or disabling [turned to stone, STR,DEX,WIS,INT,CHA = 0, and so on]
2 points of you did more then 50% of the damage to a player who died
5 points for last man standing
King of the Hill
The 10 players all spawn 1000 feet from a hill. At the top of the hill is a 5 foot circle you can stand in. Last man standing in the circle wins.
The spawning is random, but is even all around the hill.
There will be limited covor and concealment from treest and bushes.
While standing inside the circle [max 1 person], you will be endowed with a buff. The actual benifits have not yet been decided, it will not be gamebreaking, but it will be highly benificial.
1 point per kill or disabling [turned to stone, STR,DEX,WIS,INT,CHA = 0, and so on]
2 points of you did more then 50% of the damage to a player who died
5 points for last man standing
Grand Maze
This is a grand dungeon, with many CR 5-8 critters running around. Players spawn in random rooms, no two in the same. The object here is a bit twisted. It is a free for all, untill there is four players or less alive. At this point the remaining players will be sucked down to a boss (CR 14). The players will gain 10 rounds for buffing and resting when waiting for the boss.
Killing other players during the boss fight, or in the buff duration wont give points (besides style points ofc).
1 point per kill or disabling [turned to stone, STR,DEX,WIS,INT,CHA = 0, and so on]
2 points of you did more then 50% of the damage to a player who died
5 points if your in the last group, and you manage to kill the boss
Finaly
Unless the charecters is extremely simple, it would be benificial if a short list of tactics and tricks would be included with the charecters.
I would just like to thank you in advance, and im looking forword to seeing what the CO Board comes up with this time, and im looking forword to reporting back how things worked out on my end.
Peace.
------Construction in Progress-------
Cloistered Cleric 1/Archivist 2/Master of Shrouds 8
Domains: Knowledge, Planning, Undeath
1 Extra Turning
H Extra Turning
F Spell Focus Conj
F Augment Summoning
3 Knowledge Devotion
6 Healing Touch
Arc Persistant Spell
9 DMM Persistant Spell
Str 9
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 16
Equipment:
Scrolls of Uncertain Provenance
Mithral Breastplate +2
Ring of Protection +2
Cloak of Resistance +2
Eternal Wand of Meld into Stone
Eternal Wand of Invisibility
Nightstick
Belt of Battle
Chocolate Bar
Spells:
3rd: Visage of the Diety Lesser
5th: Bite of the Weretiger
Tactics are to cast meld into stone, summon a ton of undead and use Dark Knowledge to ensure they destroy their target. Use DMM to place buffs for survivability and Healing Touch to keep you alive.
Is this something we'd play, or you'd play?
I have some builds that might be good fun . . . :D
Yes, i still need charecters, this is a new Challenge.
RabidPirateMan
1. No fractional saves or BaB
2. 2 flaws, and no traits
3. You are allowed to post as many charecters as you want, however when its time for me to chose charecters, i think i will try and limit 1 from each person, unless they are something amazing
4. Yes you can, but it comes out of your wealth.
JanusJones
This is something i would be using at my local rpg club. I will be picking 10 builds from the board that follow the guidelines i posted. The 10 i pick will be given to players in the club who will play them according to the tactic's/tricks that hopefully will be included in the build's. After the completion of the challenge, i will post a summary of the battle's right here on the CO-board.
Henry the Indestructable Arcanist
Dwarf, Generic Expert 2 / Generic Warrior 2 / Generic Arcanist 6 / Generic Divinist 1
Flaws: Inattentive, Unresponsive.
Feats: Toughness, Roll With It x11
Stats
str 8
dex 12 (4 points)
con 20 (16 points, +2 racial)
int 18 (10 points, +2 advancement)
wis 12 (4 points)
cha 7 (1 point, -2 racial)
Saves
Fort 12 - 5base, 5con, 2magic
Ref ...8 - 5base, 1dex, 2magic
Will .11 - 8base, 1wis, 2magic
+2 vs poison
+2 vs spells/SLAs
Skills
94 skillpoints
class skills: any
Advantages
DR 22/- (!!!)
High Saves (esp. vs Magic)
6th lvl arcane casting
Ability to use divine scrolls + wands
Only needs Con and Int
High hp
Highly customizable base
Disadvantages
Must pay 16 points for max starting con
Damage output is relatively low
(edit - Erp, Roll With It is still 3.0, isn't it....)
Str- 10 (--)
Dex- 16 (+3)
Con-12 (+1)
Int-14 (+2)
Wis- 08 (-1)
Cha-18 (22 +6)
Eldritch Blast Attack Roll: +8 (base) +3 (dex) +1 (weapon focus) [+1 point blank within 30']
Damage: 7d6 magic damage (non-typed energy) [+1 point blank within 30']
Base Attack: +8
AC: 10 +6 armor +3 shield +3 dex +2 deflection -1 flaw
Saves Base Mods
Fort- +3 +3
Ref- +3 +5
Will- +7 +1
Initiative: +9 (+4 feat, +2 eager, +3 dex)
Hit Points: 52 (6 + 10x 3.5 + 11)
Speed: 40 (+10 enhancement)
Alignment: Chaotic _____
Skill Ranks: Bluff 5, Concentration 14, Use Magic Device 14, Spellcraft 14, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (the planes) 1, Knowledge (religion) 1, Sense Motive 14, Intimidate 2
Feats: 1st- Improved Initiative (bonus from Vulnerable flaw), 1st- Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast) (bonus from Non-combatant flaw), 1st- Point Blank Shot (human bonus), 1st- Precise Shot, 3rd- Weapon Focus (ranged spells), 6th- Extra Invocation, 9th- Extra Invocation
Special: Vulnerable flaw (-1 ac), Non-combatant flaw (-2 to melee attack rolls), Detect Magic (Sp) at will, Deceive Item (take 10 on Use Magic Device checks), Damage Reduction 3 / cold iron (Su), Acid and Fire Resistance 5 (Su), Fiendish Resilience 1 (Su), Eldritch Blast 6d6 (Sp)
Invocations Known:
Least- Eldrtich Spear, See the Unseen, Eldrtich Glaive, Baleful Utterance, Spiderwalk
Lesser- Flee the Scene, Voracious Dispelling, Voidsense
Greater- Noxious Blast
Equipment/Miscellaneous: 66,000 gold pieces to spend
Mithral Chain Shirt +2 (5.1k), Mithral Buckler +2 (5.015k), Ring of Protection +2 (8k), Chasuble of Fel Power (8k), Boots of Striding and Springing (5.5k), Cloak of Charisma +4 (16k), Wand of Cure Light Wounds (50 charges) (0.75k), Wand of Magic Missiles (CL 3rd, 50 charges) (2.25k), Heward's Handy Haversack (2k), Vest of Resistance +2 (4k), Morning Star +1 (2.306k), 3 Potions of Barkskin +2 (4.5k), 2 Daggers (0.004k), Sling and 10 stones (free), Quarterstaff (free), Club (free), Explorer's Outfit (free), Quaal's Feather Token (Tree) (2k), Everburning Torch (0.11k), 165 gold pieces left
Tactics:
Drink the potions of barkskin +2 for the dungeon crawl, but only if melee is necessary (ie you can't climb up to the ceiling and just blast the targets to death) Use Tree Token to make a "base of operations", for one of the big open arena battles, near the center of the map, in which to hide in, retreat to, heal up in, buff in, and/or attack from. You have the ability to get away from people without them knowing where you went (upto 75 ft. dimension door), as well as leaving a Major Image of yourself behind for 1 round that interacts with the world as if it were still you (but it isn't real) (Flee the Scene), you can snipe at 250 ft. (Eldritch Spear), you have 30 ft. Blindsense (Voidsense), You can cast Shatter at will (Baleful Utterance), You have permanent Spiderclimb (Spiderwalk), You have permanent See Invisibility and Darkvision 60' (See the Unseen), You can cast Dispel Magic at will, causing 1 point of damage per spell level of spell effects that are dispelled on creatures (Voracious Dispelling), You can nauseate people you hit with your Eldritch Blast for 1 minute (Fort DC 10 + 6 (level) + 6 (cha mod) + 2 (feat)) (Noxious Blast essence).
Best idea would be to hide in and snipe from your tree base since it provides cover (+4 ac and reflex saves vs. area of effect attacks) as well as 20% concealment from the leaves and branches and shadows. You have Spiderclimb so you won't be falling out of your tree anytime soon. If you see someone that is sneak attacking the crap out of people, help them out by using Noxious Blast on their targets. They'll be difficult to hit themselves, so getting them to kill people for you and waiting to kill them last is a good idea.
With Dispel Magic at will, you CAN counterspell if you think that would be a good idea to do; but I only suggest this tactic if the only target you have available is trying to kill you, and it is a spell caster. Since you won't ever run out of dispel magic and they will run out of spell slots, you win, so long as it isn't a melee cleric
Any that buffs themselves is asking to lose that buff and take damage from you. Remember that you can Dispel Magic potion buffs.You have Detect Magic at will, so if you notice someone trying to sunder your tree, you can figure out which pieces of gear they have that aren't magical and which are, as well as the schools of magic for each piece; so you can Shatter, at will, the non-magical gear with Baleful Utterance. Or you can just Eldritch Blast them to death. In the dungeon crawl, you can shatter door handles, locks, hinges, traps, and other things to get where you want to go.
Other than all this, have fun. From all my experience with Warlocks, I believe them to be the best suited solo character class in DnD 3.5, as well as the most fun generating class to play.
Disadvantages: Only 1 effective attack per round, low hitpoints, no ability to fly or burrow, neutered inside an AMF, lower armor class than I suspect will be the average in the contest.
-Nezkrul
And, yes Roll with it is 3.0 as far as i remember. [From savage spieces or some such 3.0 book right]
And, yes Roll with it is 3.0 as far as i remember. [From savage spieces or some such 3.0 book right]
I know it originally appeared in Savage Species, which is 3.0; what I don't know is whether it, or a similar feat, has appeared in some obscure 3.5 supplement that I haven't seen (which is entirely possible). I'll leave the build up for now at least; it lacks punch, but as far as durability goes it's as solid as we're likely to see. That wouldn't help much in a normal adventure (which is very offense-biased), but in a gauntlet test like this it should perform well.
Human Scout 1/Warlock 4/Assassin 1/Unseen Seer 3/Hellfire Warlock 2
Str: 10 (-)
Dex- 24 (+7) [+2 from advancement, +4 Gloves of Dexterity]
Con-13 (+1)
Int-14 (+2)
Wis- 08 (-1)
Cha-14 (+2)
Base Attack: +6
Eldritch Blast Attack Roll: +14, +6 (base) +7 (dex) +1 (weapon focus)
Damage: 12d6 = 4d6 (Eldritch Blast), +3d6 (Skirmish), +1d6 (Sneak Attack), +4d6 (Hellfire Blast)
AC: 24 flat footed 18, Touch 18,
Saves Base Mods
Fort- +3= +2,+1
Ref- +13 = +2,+1,+2,+1,+7
Will- +10 = +3,+3,+3,-1 (+2 against Mind affecting/Compulsion)
Initiative: +16 (+7 Dexterity, +4 Improved Initiative, +5 Warning)
Hit Points: 11d6+11 (52)
Speed: 30
Alignment: Neutral Evil/Lawful Evil
Skill Ranks: Disguise 4, Hide 8, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (The Planes) 12, Move Silently 8, Search 8, Sense Motive 8, Spellcraft 6, Spot 8, Use Magic Device 14, rest is irrelevant....
Feats:
1st:Able Learner, Weapon Focus (Ranged Spell), Improved Initiative [flaw: Non-Combatant],
3rd: Force of Personality
6th: Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vestment)
9th: Extra Invocation (Entropic Warding)
Special: Detect Magic (Sp) at will, Deceive Item (take 10 on Use Magic Device checks), Eldritch Blast 4d6 (Sp), Hellfire Blast 4d6, Sneak Attack 1d6, Skirmish 3d6,
Spells and Invocations
Invocations Known:
Least:
Eldritch Spear
Baleful Utterance
See the Unseen
Entropic Warding
Lesser
Fell Flight
Hellrime Blast
Spells Known:
Detect Poison
True Strike
Soulmelds Known:
Strongheart Vestment
Least:
Eldritch Spear
Baleful Utterance
See the Unseen
Entropic Warding
Lesser
Fell Flight
Hellrime Blast
Spells Known:
Detect Poison
True Strike
Soulmelds Known:
Strongheart Vestment
:D
Only classes, spells, feats, items and so on from 3.5. There is one or two exceptions. BoVD and BoED, both are made as a 3.0-3.5 hybrid, and for the purpose of this challenge it will be accepted as 3.5.
Now if there is a ruling that is not covered in a 3.5 book, but there is a sensible 3.0 counterpart such as the list of animal young, and training in AeG, feel free to use it, but make sure the mechanics are descriped in your post, as any 3.0 book is not availible to the players around the gaming table where the final challenge will take place.
Magic Item Compendium states 3rd level Arcane spell for eternal wands, as this is the most updated 3.5 source for eternal wands, then that would be how it is, so might want to lose the eternal wands that got cleric spells in em
(or just make em normal wands)Other than that, pretty good design. Missing out on the better class features of warlock just to get more damage, but whatever floats your boat
Also, if your Fell Flight get's dispelled, its the same as the Fly spell, you don't immediately plummet to the ground, you get a d6 worth of rounds of free feather falling.
Neraagile: practiced spellcaster does nothing for warlocks, as they don't cast any spells (read the feat carefully).
Ups :embarrass
And what book is Avenger in? I'm not seeing it on my list of PrC's in 3.5.
Its a redo of Assassin, makes it non-chaotic... but doesn't matter since I'm NE/LE :P
Magic Item Compendium states 3rd level Arcane spell for eternal wands, as this is the most updated 3.5 source for eternal wands, then that would be how it is, so might want to lose the eternal wands that got cleric spells in em
Blast....forgot that :P oh well :D
Also, if your Fell Flight get's dispelled, its the same as the Fly spell, you don't immediately plummet to the ground, you get a d6 worth of rounds of free feather falling.
true that.... but just in case ;)
hp 118 (8 + 4d8 + 6d10 + 10 draconic toughness - 6 legacy item + 55 CON)
Male human (dragonblood) Battle Sorcerer 4, Crusader 1, Spellsword 1, Abjurant Champion 5
CE Medium humanoid (dragonblood)
Init +2; Senses Listen -4, Spot -4
Languages Common, Draconic
AC 20 (10 + 5 armor + 2 dex + 2 natural + 1 deflection), touch 13, flat-footed 18
with Shield or Repelling Shield cast AC 29, touch 13, flat-footed 27
Resistances acid 5 (6 uses 1 hr/use, necklace), cold 5 (up to 25 damage/day, armor crystal), fire 5 (bracers), force 15
Immunities 1/day ignore any death or negative energy effect (armor), 1/day negate confused, dazed, fascinated or stunned condition (third eye)
Fort +12 (6 base + 5 CON + 3 resistance - 2 legacy item)
Reflex +4 (2 base + 4 DEX)
Will +10 (10 base) (3/day +5 vs mind-affecting spell and abilities)
Conditional Save Modifiers +5 vs magical sleep, paralysis and force effects
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares) (30 base + 10 enhancement), not slowed by difficult terrain (sandals), ongoing pass without trace effect (sandals)
Melee Faithful Avenger +13/+8 (2d4+4/18-20) (+3 attack/damage vs LG, +1 attack/damage vs L or G)
Ranged Wand of Magic Missle (CL 5, 10 charges) (3d4+3 force)
Base Attack +10, Grapple +12
Special Actions detect good at will (weapon), lesser restoration 3/day (weapon), spell shield 1/round (alternate class feature), 3 charges/day retain spell slot (circlet), 3/day attack from higher ground for extra damage (cloak), 5/day +2 on dispel check (cord), 3 charges/day heal damage (belt), 1/day create silence effect (ring), 1/day water walk for 60 min. (sandals)
Combat Gear 6 potions of cure light wounds
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 10th):
5th (2/day) heart of fire
4th (4/day) freedom of movement*, heart of earth
3rd (5/day) crushing despair*, haste, repelling shield
2nd (6/day) arcane turmoil, essence of the dragon, wings of cover
1st (6/day) grease, magic missle, obscuring mist, shield*, stand
0th (5/day) caltrops, detect magic, launch item, light, read magic, resistance, sonic snap, touch of fatigue
* draconic legacy spell
Maneuvers and Stances Known (IL 6):
Stances - martial spirit (1st)
Strikes - crusader's strike (1st)**, foe hammer (2nd)**, mountain hammer (2nd)**, stone bones (1st)**, stone vise (2nd)
Counters - action before thought (2nd)**
** readied maneuver
Abilities STR 14, DEX 14 (12 +2 gloves), CON 20 (17 +1 level +2 weapon), INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 15 (14 + 1 level)
Feats combat casting (1st), draconic heritage: tarterian dragon (1st), draconic legacy (9th), draconic resistance (3rd), draconic skin (flaw), draconic toughness (flaw), martial study: action before thought (6th)
Flaws inattentive (-4 listen, -4 spot), shaky (-2 ranged attack)
Skills concentration +21/+25 defensive, escape artist +3, heal +2, intimidate +9, jump +7, knowledge (arcana) +7, knowledge (architecture & engineering) +2, knowledge (dungeoneering) +2, knowledge (history) +5, knowledge (nature) +2, knowledge (religion) +2, knowledge (the planes) +2, listen -4, spellcraft +15, spot -4, swim +7
Possessions Faithful Avenger (+2 cold iron falchion, hardness 24, 60 hp, 4330 gp), least crystal of adamant weaponry (300 gp), +1 death ward improved stamina mind armor mithral chainshirt (12,100 gp), least clasp of cold protection (500 gp), circlet of mages (5000 gp), third eye clarity (3000 gp), necklace of copper dragon scales (570 gp), piercer cloak (900 gp), dispelling cord (1000 gp), healing belt (750 gp), crimson dragonhide bracers (5000 gp), gloves of dexterity +2 (4000 gp), ring of protection +1 (2000 gp), ring of silent spells (2000 gp), sandals of the light step (9000 gp), wand of magic missle (CL 5, 10 charges, 750 gp), 6 potions of cure light wounds (300 gp)
Other Expenditures ritual of awakening (1500 gp), ritual of nurturing (13,000 gp)
Tactics Not done with this yet
No cloistered cleric masters of shrouds yet? For shame ...
I figured PhaedrusXY would want to make one of those, since he's where I got the idea from.
Besides, I've been wanting to try out a DMM Archivist. Although, if I cant find a suitable two level dip to finish off my guy, I think I'll just have to use it...
No cloistered cleric masters of shrouds yet? For shame ...
I figured PhaedrusXY would want to make one of those, since he's where I got the idea from.
Besides, I've been wanting to try out a DMM Archivist. Although, if I cant find a suitable two level dip to finish off my guy, I think I'll just have to use it...
Eh, magic items are allowed in this one. No magic weapons is one of the things that made MoS so strong in the other one. Still, a MoS might do decently. I don't know if I'll have time to build something for this. I might submit a Magic Jar based character.
Just gotta say that an earth dreamer (RoS) would rock this tournament incredibly hard.
How do you figure that?
How do you figure that?
Very hard to target primarily.
But ya, it would be a good place to start.
Rules
Only core races. [PHB, MM1]
No Templates
No Level Adjustment
why? .... for these Contests, LA usually is not that great of a Thing and in most cases.. Weakens the Player
couldnt we just say: only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
thus avoid any questionable Templates(overpowered)
:D
why? .... for these Contests, LA usually is not that great of a Thing and in most cases.. Weakens the Player
couldnt we just say: only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
thus avoid any questionable Templates(overpowered)
:D
Hmmm... that should be allright. Its mostly to make people stay away from a bunch of obscure templates.
:evillaugh they should be fun;)
:D
couldnt we just say: only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
thus avoid any questionable Templates(overpowered)
:D
umm...Warforged...
umm...Warforged...
are not in any of those books.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9245228&postcount=49
Some combo of Psion + PsyWar for the feats, the psicrystal will be strong enough to replicate out.
Might need a PAO and then a second one, to get an ML of 1.
So there is an infinite loop. And it can be reduced.
***
Druid + Awaken trick can be done in a non- infinite loop fashion, since there's no Thought Bottle.
No Candle of Invocation? How about Summoning/Gating in a Pit Fiend?
are not in any of those books.
Exactly. I suggest that this is a problem, as Warforged are well balanced and make excellent artificers...should I decide to make an artificer for the contest.
what dragon did you pick for your heritage? cuz force dragon isn't in a 3.5 book.
Neraagile:
your skill ranks are not irrelevant as you haven't listed skill ranks that qualified you for all of your PrC's that you have. Also remember that Force of Personality feat only works against Mind Affecting effects. Hellfire Warlock requires that you know Brimstone Blast or Hellrime Blast as a prereq, you have neither in that build (and some heavy skill ranks required as well). Your listed AC of 27 is incorrect, you got 10 base, 6 dex (max dex of mithral chain shirt), 2 deflection, 6 armor.
Just helping you get the build right
your skill ranks are not irrelevant as you haven't listed skill ranks that qualified you for all of your PrC's that you have. Also remember that Force of Personality feat only works against Mind Affecting effects. Hellfire Warlock requires that you know Brimstone Blast or Hellrime Blast as a prereq, you have neither in that build (and some heavy skill ranks required as well). Your listed AC of 27 is incorrect, you got 10 base, 6 dex (max dex of mithral chain shirt), 2 deflection, 6 armor.
Just helping you get the build right
Sorry... smacked it together, and forgot to work out some of the stuff.... The rest of the skills are Irrelevant since the once noted are the once that are prereq for my PrC's, apart from UMD, but forgot the Hellfire Warlock prereqs... :P
Stickyboy2323:
what dragon did you pick for your heritage? cuz force dragon isn't in a 3.5 book.
Tarterian Dragon.
I'll update the post.
Stickyboy2323:
what dragon did you pick for your heritage? cuz force dragon isn't in a 3.5 book.
Force Dragon has a 3.5 Update... here:
D&D v.3.5 Accessory Update Booklet
not a lot changes ... mostly this:
DR:
wyrmling 10/magic, young 15/magic,
young adult 15/epic, mature adult 20/epic,
very old 25/epic
Adult Force Dragons get some more feats... thats it
but Force Dragon is in Dracominicon for the 1/2 Dragon Description also
:D
but Force Dragon is in Dracominicon for the 1/2 Dragon Description also
:D
cool.
Makes me want to make the Mr. Roboto build, with the base body being a Cave Troll with 30 half dragon templates and the shadow creature template. :D
Race:[/b] Human
Player:[/b] Lokiyn
Classes:[/b] Druid7 Touchstone Thaumaturgist4
Hit Points:[/b] 51
Experience:[/b] 55000 / 66000
Alignment:[/b] Chaotic Neutral
Vision:[/b] Normal; Darkvision 30ft(or 60 see character notes)
Speed:[/b] Walk 30 ft.
Languages:[/b] Auran, Common, Druidic, Terran
Any special rules on consumable items? Will they be replenished between events? Do they cost any more? Can you buy things like Candles of Invocation that give 9th level spell effects for little cost?
cool.
Makes me want to make the Mr. Roboto build, with the base body being a Cave Troll with 30 half dragon templates and the shadow creature template. :D
the only drawback:
Only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
Any special rules on consumable items? Will they be replenished between events? Do they cost any more? Can you buy things like Candles of Invocation that give 9th level spell effects for little cost?
notice:
Banned Subjects
Loops not allowed [Pun-Pun, and other ways where you can gain unlimited, or near infinite turns/hp/attacks/etc]
No Candle of Invocation
Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange tree removed
Leadership Feat [And any variations like Undead Leadership and so on.]
:D
Ok, I just used the Candle of Invocation as an example (and didn't notice it was explicitly banned :P ). A scroll of Summon Elemental Monolith or Elemental Swarm could be almost as broken (barring using the Candle for Wish cheese ala Pun-Pun), and I think would be affordable. The point is, if you are allowed to buy a consumbable magic item with an insanely powerful effect, you can almost guarantee a win.
So go Artificerilla?
1 time items (potions, scrolls and so on) will be used up when used. "Keep in mind there is 3 challenges"
Between challenges there will be time to rest. "get rezzed with no level loss, regain spells, full hp and so on"
There will not be any buff rounds before the start of each challenge, but any buffs with a duration of 24 hours or more, may be considered cast but the spell slot where is was cast from will be used.
WBL for ECL 11 is 66,000. A scroll of Gate costs 8825, so you could easily afford three of them. One Pit Fiend (or Neh-Thalggu, etc if you want to "make sure"), should be able to kill everyone else in the contest with little problem.
By using a cleric combined ArcherPwr's Earth Dreamer idea, you could do it from relative saftey while under ground. It should be fairly easy to insure you make the CL check to activate the scroll, also. A Divine Spell Power + DMM: Persistent Consumptive Field should definitely do it.
You could also just go Cleric 11, or Cloistered Cleric 11 and use Meld into Stone, depending on the terrain of the battlefields.
That should keep the fights a bit more personal, while still making it possible to play a summoner.
I might have to rule that anyone killed by a called creature does not grant its "caller" a kill point, but summoned creatures does.
That should keep the fights a bit more personal, while still making it possible to play a summoner.
I'd just ban the use of any spell effects above 6th level, and/or make consumable items cost 10x more than normal. Banning specific classes of effects (Calling, etc) is kind of missing the point, which was this: in arena settings, consumable magic items are unbalancing. They are priced for use in a long term game, where it is not economically feasible to spend 10-20% of your wealth per encounter. In an arena, the economic drawbacks of using overpowered consumables are totally removed.
If you go look at the Core Collesium rules, you'll see these kinds of restrictions. They are there for a reason. The earlier 10th level challenge went too far and banned all magic items, but I'm sure that was probably done for similiar reasons.
I might have to rule that anyone killed by a called creature does not grant its "caller" a kill point, but summoned creatures does.
That should keep the fights a bit more personal, while still making it possible to play a summoner.
I was thinking about making an effigy though I have to ask, effigy will cost closer to 50% rather then 25% of starting gold as well as it is not a summoned beast. Will it be allowed?
Ohh and yes, 25% of your gold on any one item will limit what kind of effigis you will have access to.
If you want to limit consumables, limit the ones that produce effects above caster level 11 required (7th level and higher spells, as you suggested). After all, EVERYONE gets to buy consumables for these fights, so all is fair.
Also are we not use the x5 cost on one shot items for one shot games (DMG199)?
...make consumable items cost 10x more than normal. Banning specific classes of effects (Calling, etc) is kind of missing the point, which was this: in arena settings, consumable magic items are unbalancing. They are priced for use in a long term game, where it is not economically feasible to spend 10-20% of your wealth per encounter. In an arena, the economic drawbacks of using overpowered consumables are totally removed.
It's a good point, to be sure, but there are some builds(ie my favorite blastificer) that depend upon wands to accomplish anything. x10 to consumables would turn a 4500gp wand(a 2nd level spell at base caster level) into a 45,000gp, well outside the budget of the challenge. Come to think of it, only level 1 wands or lower with a maximum CL of 2 would even be affordable at all. Unless, of course, you don't count wands as consumables.
Also are we not use the x5 cost on one shot items for one shot games (DMG199)?
I didn't know there was an actual rule for this. x5 is more reasonable than what I suggested, also.
And there only be 1 day wait between fights, but there will be people around to heal, and help repair sundered items, so people will be ready the next day.
Allso, wands are not one shot items, they are 50 shot items. And since the challenge is with "no custom items" then you cant get a wand with 1 charge to get past the ruling of 5x price.
All in all, i will make the same rulings and judgments here i would in a normal game with my players, except i cant hit any of you with my Dice'O Hurt +1, or DMG +3.
- Charged Magic Items:[indent]A player may select a partially used magic item for part of his characters starting gear. Such an item is proportional to the charges left compared to the charges in a newly created item.[/indent]
- Limited use items[indent]If you're playing a one-shot random dungeon, one-use items cost 5 times their normal price and charged items have 1/5th as many charges. In a One-shot adventure, in which it doesn't matter whether you use up your items, one use and charged items are a lot better than they are in a regular campaign.[/indent]
Anyway back to before
- Wizards of the Coast 3.5 Web material, valid or not?
- Substitution levels Valid or not
- Mixing Settings (as in drawing from Eberron and Faerun both) Valid or Not
- Will the Capture the mountain zone be a stonelike area (thus targets for stone to mud and such, and for people with burrow)
- One a related note What is the composition of the town, I.e. Is it flammable
- How spacious is the Dungeon section? , I'm hoping its between 25-50 SS, (400-800 5x5 squares), (10,000-20,000 Square feet) or smaller
- More to come
I thinking of tweaking the druid to more of a Guerrilla build depending. I may field more questions as i tweak
Im aware that by the rules in the dmg you can buy a wand with fewer charges than 50, however for this excersice fully charged wands is the only ones availible.
Allso im aware of the rules behind the one-shot items in one-shot dungeon-crawls and so on "since someone were so kind to point them out to me
". However this is not truly a 1-shot deal, since it will pe 3 parted. And you will need to save/keep some of your resources.So iv made a few changes from the suggested changes for 1-shot games in the dmg.
- Wizards of the Coast 3.5 Web material, valid or not? Valid
- Substitution levels Valid or not Valid
- Mixing Settings (as in drawing from Eberron and Faerun both) Valid or Not Valid
- Will the Capture the mountain zone be a stonelike area (thus targets for stone to mud and such, and for people with burrow) It will be "normal" grassy hilltop. So there will be earth and dirt, maby some roots and so on under the hill
- One a related note What is the composition of the town, I.e. Is it flammable Some of the buildings, and ships will be made of primarely wood, so they can be set a blaze, but there will be stone buildings aswell. You will not be able to set the entire town on fire as a tacktic, but you might catch someone inside a building where the tactic might work.
- # How spacious is the Dungeon section? , I'm hoping its between 25-50 SS, (400-800 5x5 squares), (10,000-20,000 Square feet) or smaller The dungeon will snake out in 4 different directions like a cross. Each "arm" will be between 1000-2000 feet, with several rooms. The majority of the fights here will be with the denziens of the dungeon, aswell as any charecters you find that you choose not to team up with.
Hope that answered some of the questions.
Updated my warlock's equipment for the new x5 consumable rules.
Lo77o- if you end up using my warlock, let me know how it does (and hopefully someone intelligent get's to play him, hehe)
a)some ruling somewhere(which I've never seen) that limits the level of persistable spells,
b)plenty of rulings that disqualify Persistent spell entirely, and
c)many DMs altering Persistent spell to increasing the duration category(rounds-->minutes, minutes-->hours, etc.), rather than extending all durations to 24 hours.
So the question is, what's the challenge ruling on Persistent spell? Or did I miss a previous post about it? :P
---
Also, I renew my request that Eberron Campaign Setting races be given special dispensation to be allowed in the challenge(though from the ECS book only).
RabidPirateMan: you need extend spell to get persistent spell, unless archivist is funky.
Extend Spell is given by Planning domain.
Race and Class
Dwarf fighter 8, dwarven defender 3.
Base Stats
Boosting str at levels 4 and 8.
str 18+2: 2+2+2+4+6=16
con 16+2: 2+2+2+4=10
dex 12: 2+2=4
int 13: 2+2+1=5
wis 8: 0
cha 8-2: 0
16+10+4+5=35
Gear (66000gp):
12000 boots of speed
4000 amulet of health +2
13330 adamantine dwarven waraxe +1 merciful
300 MW sling
1 20 sling bullets
10650 +3 fullplate
9170 +3 heavy steel shield
5000 dusty rose prism ioun stone
8000 +2 ring of protection
1000 cloak of resistance +1
1500 potions of barkskin +2 (cost already 5x)
total: 64951
Put the rest to CSW pots, maybe a few CLW.
Feats (4 + 5 fighter = 9): weapon focus, weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, dodge, endurance, toughness, combat expertise, improved critical, improved initiative
Strat
Drink barkskin pot right away, unless immediately engaged in combat.
Always use +5 with combat expertise unless being ignored. Even at the end.
Save boots of speed for full attacks
Probably never use defensive stance.
Sling is just a backup weapon.
Don't forget all the little AC/AB/damage bonuses from spells, etc.
If funky opponents show up in FFA, get away and/or hunt down the hitable ones.
If it's necessary to finish off enemies, then deactivate merciful and use CdG.
As you know there is many abilities in DnD that is up for interpretation.
Iv seen deepwarden mentioned, and persist questioned. And in the games i run, and as a result the challenge i will be overseeing, persist is used as written. So no level cap on the spells. Iv been DM'ing with many groups, and most of the times there is 1-2 people who is playing DMM persist clerics, and it has never been a problem.
Allso, if anyone chooses to play a Deepwarden, they will not have their max dex limit converted to a max con limit. "So 20 con + Full Plate = 5+8 AC"
Im aware that you can balance the game differently then i do when it comes to DMM persist, and that the deepwardens ability could be ruled on differently in other games, however this is the way it will work for this game.
Glim "ashhearth" Raulnor.
gnome sorceror 11
stats: 20 cha, 18 con, 10 dex, 10 wis, 12 int, str 8
spells:
0: flare (for Drow), prestidigitation, detect magic, w/e
1: alarm (if no enemies seen/around, drop in random places), grease, mage armor, feather fall, shield
2 scrolls comprehend languages (250gp)
2 scrolls expeditious retreat (250gp)
2: glitterdust, scorching ray (backup only, see strat in notes), invisibility, false life, resist energy
2 scrolls see invisibility (1500gp)
2 scrolls spider climb (1500gp)
2 scrolls dimensional anchor (1500gp)
3: dispel magic, protection from energy, slow, shrink item.
4: solid fog, resilent sphere, greater invisibility
5: wall of stone, telekinesis
skills: spellcraft, knowledge(arcana), spot
feats (4):
silent spell (good if Glim is invisible)
extend spell (good for a lot of buffs)
empower spell (good for false life or if Glim must resort to scorching ray)
improved initiative
gear (66k gold):
22 large MW greatswords (~8000gp), shrunken with shrink item. Kept shrunken on rotating 11-day cycle, so Glim must burn two spell slots each day for this. There are 11 greatswords in each of two seperate pouches. It is a standard action to return them to normal size, then next round he uses telekinesis to hurl all 11 at opponents. They deal 3d6 per hit. Note that the now full-sized greatswords may be repeatedly re-used. The spare 11 greatswords are just a backup. This is not Glim's main strat. It is a backup for slippery opponents that are good at escaping Glim's entrapments. See notes below. Telekinesis may also be used for main strat, not just for this.
8000 ring of protection +2
5000 dusty rose prism ioun stone
8000 ring of force shield
4000 amulet of health +2
1500 potions of barkskin +2
<400 MW crossbow & bolts
604 2 MW daggers
2500 CLW potions, 10
18750 CSW potions, 5
1000 cloak of resistance +1
3000 potions of delay poison, 2
total: 65754 gold
notes:
self-buff liberally if given the opportunity.
Prefered energy protections/resistances are fire and sonic, if I can't see enemies using something else.
Glim has ~10 other buffs, so make sure you find them all to ready the ones that can be readied.
Combat strat is too complicated to enumerate, so use your best judgement. Goal is battlefield control, to disable/avoid/redirect/etc like mad. 4th level spells are easily my favorite for this (especially solid fog). The 5th level spells are also handy for this. In general avoid using spells with saves against 1-2 targets, but there might be some exceptions.
Glim will most likely open with greater invis, if he hasn't had a chance to use it earlier. That's his favorite way to get away, though resilent sphere on himself is another backup (but disabling enemies with solid fog/wall of stone/etc. is strongly prefered)
only problem is-
You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer).
Succeeding on 11 attack rolls with an attack bonus of +10 might be difficult in these challenges.
Human Sorcerer 5/ Wild Mage 1/ Sand Shaper 5
Familiar Rat
Stats
Strength: 14(+4), Dexterity 16(+2), Constitution 10
Charisma: 16(+2)(+2), Wisdom 13, Intelligence 10
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Saves
Fortitude: +4(+3) Reflexive: +8(+3) Will: +9(+3)
Feats
Touchstone
Magic Aptitude
Practiced Spellcaster
Extend Spell
Retributive Spell
Skills
survival 4, knowledge(nature) 4, knowledge(planes) 4
spellcraft 8, use magic device 4, concentration 8
Spells
- Mercantile background, how is that going to be dealt with, would one be able to apply it to only one item or more than one item.
- Pre-Preped spells, If we have the ability to store spells and items in advance (such as shrunken items, spellstaves, Contingencies and the like.) whats the limit on those.
- Also, Apprentice Feat, good or not, i'm thinking of tossing circle magic on to a build.
For example if i can prefabricate and shrink barriers how many of those are we limited too, Max load? Light load? Etc
Mainly i was thinking of a wizard with shrink item could prefabricate 10'x10'x2" (16.6 Cu^3 ; 2600 lb) shrinks to (.004 Cu^3 ; .65 lb) barriers (with supports) for the Dungeon aspect could dominate the tunnel sections and toss out field control in the capture the hill and town mass combat to force people out of strait line paths.
(as a side note do you know how funny it is to have the barriers hidden in the grass and the readied action to call the command word "when charger is within 5 ft of the barrier)
You can pre-prep as many spells as you can cast the day before.
I dont know if apprentice is like leadership, but if it is, its out.
And you can haul as much stuff around as you can drag if you want to, but making the charecter over complex might just frustrate the person who ends up using it.
- Apprentice[Indent]Apprentice must be taken at level 01, During which you are required to pay for schooling, after a certain point you graduate at which point your apprentice feat becomes Mentor, and you start training an apprentice who sticks with you till level 5 when they graduate and become a cohort. (11-4= 7th level cohort). Basically i just needed someone to donate a spell before the combats for a caster level boosts. I can just hire someone to cast it instead.[/indent][indent]I wasn't sure if the issue with leadership was the assistant or the scores of minions, either way it's shaping up to a complex summoner build so its already dealing with multiple units.[/indent]
- Merchantile Background allows the purchase, once per month, on any utem at 75% of its normal costs.
- So its limited to spells cast "the day before" then. I think i can charge the spellstaff and get the barriers set up before hand in a day.
Its really not "that" complicated. Basically the character will simply have a supply of 64 pre-shrunk triangular barrier 5 feet wide at the base 10 feet tall 10 feet long for battlefield control, that take a move action to drop to the ground.
The Walking Storm
Human Sorcerer 5/ Wild Mage 1/ Sand Shaper 5
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills
survival 4, knowledge(nature) 4, knowledge(planes) 4
spellcraft 8, use magic device 4, concentration 8
Cost - Equipment Name - Effect Briefing
4,000 Gloves of Dexterity +2 dexterity
4,000 Cloak of Charisma +2 charisma
16,000 Bracers of Armor +4 AC
18,000 Amulet of Natural Armor +3 AC
18,000 Ring of Protection +3 AC
How did you manage to qualify for your 2 prc's with a 10 intelligence? even as a human you dont have enough skill points for all the cross class ranks required to take Sand Shaper after Wild Mage, or vice versa. Also, your base attack would be +4, not +6. Lo77o said no fractionals. You also can only have 1 item @ 16,500gp and everything else must be less than that, so you cant have a +3 amulet or ring.
How did you manage to qualify for your 2 prc's with a 10 intelligence? even as a human you dont have enough skill points for all the cross class ranks required to take Sand Shaper after Wild Mage, or vice versa. Also, your base attack would be +4, not +6. Lo77o said no fractionals. You also can only have 1 item @ 16,500gp and everything else must be less than that, so you cant have a +3 amulet or ring.
sandshaper costs 16skill points for the cross classing and wild mage is 24 in total 40.
Human lv 1= 4
Human lv 2 - 11 = 10
----------------------
Sorcerer lv 1 = 2*4 = 8
sorcerer lv 2 - 5 = 8
----------------------
Wild Mage lv 1= 2
----------------------
Sandshaper lv 1 - 5 = 20
------------------------
Total: 52
sorc -> sandshape -> wild
Or did I miss something?
The attack I see the error fixing it to +4 now
Will make changes, to items.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
The Shadow Gnome
Forest Gnome Cloistered Cleric 5/Shadowcrafter2/Shadowcraft Mage 4
(Alignment NG, worships Baravar Cloakshadow, or could worship Cyric if you want to be evil)
dude, you don't "start" at level 11. build your character from level 1 up with the skill points. you don't have enough skill points, trust me.
Human sorcerer lv 1-5(24pt)
Knowledge(nature) 4, Survival 4, Spellcraft 8
PRC: Sand Shaper lv 1-5(25)
Knowledge(planes) 4, Magic Device 4, Bluff 4, profession(gambler) 5
Wild Mage lv 1(3)
Knowledge(arcane) 3
I think i am missing something then
Whisper Gnome
Only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
did ya jump the gun by forgetting to read the rules? :D
Also, BoVD is 3.0, therefore not allowed, so no No Light spell, and a reliquary holy symbol takes your neck slot.
Human sorcerer lv 1-5(24pt)
Knowledge(nature) 4, Survival 4, Spellcraft 8
good
PRC: Sand Shaper lv 1-5(25)
Knowledge(planes) 4, Magic Device 4, Bluff 4, profession(gambler) 5
this is where your math goes bad, Bluff 4 = 8 skill points, not a class skill for sandshapers, so if you want 4 ranks of it, you need to drop 4 ranks from the profession
Wild Mage lv 1(3)
Knowledge(arcane) 3
good as well, but you listed in your character sheet that you also had concentration 8. not enought skill points for that, with what you have listed here
emphasis mine
Only Playable Races or templates from PHB, MM1, DMG
did ya jump the gun by forgetting to read the rules? :D
Also, BoVD is 3.0, therefore not allowed, so no No Light spell, and a reliquary holy symbol takes your neck slot.
Thanks for the corrections. You could change the race to Forest Gnome (MM1), and drop the No Light spell, and it wouldn't change much. I was porting this over from a character I'm building. :D
There are one or two exceptions. BoVD and BoED, both are made as a 3.0-3.5 hybrid, and for the purpose of this challenge it will be accepted as 3.5.
No light is still good, I've been trying to figure out how to get AftS in the works.
one more thing, you got your alignment listed as NG, so that means you CAN'T cast [evil] spells, Consumptive Field is an [evil] spell.
Also, I don't understand how you are able to cast summon elemental monolith via heighten spell. in order to be able to cast a 9th level shadow spell with your trick, you need a 10th level spell slot first. You can't convert a spell you can't cast into a shadow evocation or conjuration 1 level lower, because you have to cast that (heightened to 10th level) Silent Image, and then convert it to a shadow conjuration 1 level lower to mimic summon elemental monolith.
Same problem casting a shadow evocation Contingency, you need a 7th level spell to cast and convert down. (unless its a 6th level or lower domain spell)
one more thing, you got your alignment listed as NG, so that means you CAN'T cast [evil] spells, Consumptive Field is an [evil] spell.
I changed the alignment, and forgot about that. It was orignally a True Neutral cleric worshipping an ideal. It won't change much, except what you can put in the Contingency.
Also, I don't understand how you are able to cast summon elemental monolith via heighten spell. in order to be able to cast a 9th level shadow spell with your trick, you need a 10th level spell slot first.
I don't need a 10th level spell slot. I need a 10th level spell. I can heighten Silent Image to 10th level using DMM: Heighten + Earth Spell. (Oops... which I forgot. Will edit that in.) Then I convert this 10th level Silent Image into a Shadow Conjuration of 10th level, and use that to emulate Summon Elemental Monolith.
If you think that doesn't work, I'd ask that you go argue it in the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook, instead of this one.
But it sure is powerfull.
Heighten spells trick as with the shadowmage is powerfull, just remember that if someone casts "lesser spell immunity [silent image]" it can put a cramp in your tactic.
But it sure is powerfull.
I do believe this is true. The trick is to do things that don't target them (minor creation, wall of XYZ, etc.) when they do this.
I do believe this is true. The trick is to do things that don't target them (minor creation, wall of XYZ, etc.) when they do this.
Summon Elemental Monolith? :D
Actually, depending on how the DM adjudicates, none of that stuff might work. I could see ruling that they could even walk right through a Shadow Wall of Iron, since it isn't a "real" wall of iron, even if it is 100% "real". See what I mean?
So yeah, if someone does that, he'll just have to rely on being an 11th level cleric to deal with them. :P
Edit: Now that I think about it, that wouldn't actually work. Heighten Spell specifically says it actually increases the spell level. So not even Greater Spell Immunity would work on a Silent Image that was Heightened to 10th level, and used to emulate a 9th level spell.
Oh and Raising "pets" ok or not, i was thinking of a loadstone maurader or two (10k each) to raise as combat aides.
That and a putting up a rogue tamer (flank buddies) after the druid is finished.
Ohh and "raising pets" as along the same lines as leadership and so on. Its fair enough if you summon them during combat, since then you use actions, but other then that you should stay away from stuff like that. "unless its a familiar/animal companion/special mount".
'Cause right now, you have horses banned.
If the issue is "creatures on the field with actions other than the character" then you might as well nix summonners
If the issue is "starting with more than one character in the contest thats another.
if the issue is "having more than one character period" then its another issue as well.
In other words, Hirelings, Contacts, Cohorts from alternate sources, (such as class abilities) Companions (from non class abilites), Familiars (from non class abilities), Raised Creatures, Purchased Creatures, Slaves, Etc are all issues that come up.
For example the following creatures all are under the gold piece limit and valid purchases for the contest, even including the price of training, to use as mounts
- Brixashulty (RotW p186)
- Badger, Dire (RoS p162)+
- Chordevoc (RotW p188)
- Elven Hound (RotW p189)
- Ankheg (RoS p161)+
- Raven, Giant (Frost p148)
- Thrum Worm (RoS p190)
- Hippogriff (MM p152)
- Pegasus (MM p206)
- Spider Eater (MM p234)
- Deep Hound (RoS p185)
- Eagle, Dire (RoS p185)
- Eagle, Giant (MM p93)
- Owl, Giant (MM p205)
- Lodestone Marauder (MM4 p090)
- Griffon (MM p139)
- Stone Flyer (Und p99)
- Tlalusk (Frost p157)
- Bulette (RoS p161)
- Steelwing (MM5 p168)
I dont see the problem with lesser, normal or greater spell immunity giving you immunity to silent image. All you have to do is choose a level 1 spell with lesser spell immunity, like silent image, and then your immune to that spell. Shouldent matter if they heighten it after, since its still the same spell, just with a bigger punch.
Because when you Heighten it, it is no longer a 1st level spell. Spell Immunity can only protect against a certain level of spells, depending on which version you use. None can protect against 9th level or higher spells.
Heighten Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit
A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
The spells must be of 4th level or lower.
This spell functions like spell immunity, except the immunity applies to spells of 8th level or lower.
Spell Immunity won't stop it for the same reason that Lesser Globe of Invulerability won't. It is a 10th level spell, due to Heighten + Earth Spell. It was a good idea, and at first I thought you were right, until I looked into it a bit more.
Silent Image is SR: no and hence the spell immunity wont work on it.`
Actually, when it is converted into a Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation, it becomes SR: Yes. There are downsides to the Shadowcraft Mage, as I'm finding as I dig into it a bit more.
First, any spell gains a Will save, and if the target makes it, they take reduced or no effects. Once you get up to the higher levels, you can get this up to 100% even on a successful save, but at this level, it isn't. And secondly, even if the original spell was SR: no, it becomes SR: yes.
For this character, because he's using a 10th level Shadow effect, it is 100% real even if they disbelieve it. I doubt most DMs would allow this character in a real game, though (the one I'm wanting to play it in now wouldn't ;) ). Also, it is quite difficult to qualify for this PrC as a cleric. You have to either use Heighten Spell cheese, mix domains from Eberron and Forgotten Realms, or take the Initiate of Cyric feat.
Now i figured a blanket rule saying "no leadership, hirelings and the like" would help keep the complexity of the build, but if your hellbent on making a build that needs a bit "assistance" from 1 mount, or a level 1 commoner flag bearer or something similar, feel free to post it. If its simple enough to implement into the contest, it will be considered, but if you end up with 45852179 animals/undead/soldiers or something similar, it will just be ignored when time comes around for us to pick the build we will use in the contest.
-------------
On the spell immunity/shadowmage shenanigans, i stand corrected.
Heighten Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit
A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
notice the lack of terminology describing a slot adjustment level increase
You must spend one turn or rebuke attempt, plus an additional attempt for each level increase in the metamagic feat you are using.
RAW, you cant DMM heighten spell, as it has no level adjustment. RAI- upto Lo77o.
Also, please reread Earth Spell in the RoS very carefully as you are trying to do things with it that you cannot do, in multiple ways.
Even if DMM is allowed for heighten spell in Lo77o's game, you cant use it on a DMM heightened spell. Again, please reread Earth Spell very carefully and you will see why.
Also, if the Kharma Bead strand of prayer beads costs more than 16,500 gold you can't have it for this. Qualifying for these PrC's in the way you described is entirely RAI. And I think you forgot to list your attributes :P
RAW, you cant DMM heighten spell, as it has no level adjustment. RAI- upto Lo77o.
Just because it doesn't have a fixed spell level adjustment doesn't mean that it has no level adjustment. It does. It is just determined when you prepare/use it, instead of ahead of time like most metamagic feats.
Also, please reread Earth Spell in the RoS very carefully as you are trying to do things with it that you cannot do, in multiple ways.
Just post the text and tell me what you're talking about, instead of being vague and making me guess. You can post copyrighted stuff under the fair use laws, you know.
EARTH SPELL [GENERAL]
You draw magical power from the earth beneath your feet.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Wis 13, Earth Sense, Heighten
Spell.
Benefit: As long as you are standing on stone or
unworked earth (including normal soil), you can use
the Heighten Spell feat to added effect. If you cast a spell
using a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual
level, the spell is treated as a spell of two levels higher and
your effective caster level is increased by one. If you use
a spell slot two levels higher, the spell is treated as three
levels higher and your effective caster level is increased by
two, and so on.
You cannot gain the benefit of this feat when casting a
spell with the air, fire, or water descriptor.
I'm guessing you're going to argue that I can't use it because:
a) I am casting the spell spontaneously instead of preparing it in a slot, and
b) because if I call an Air Monolith using Shadow Conjuration, it becomes an air spell.
The second is not true. It's an Illusion (Shadow) spell, not a Conjuration (Summoning)(Air) spell, no matter what I'm emulating with it. I'm not summoning a real air monolith. I'm making a semi-real illusion of one out of shadow-stuff.
The first interpretation means sorcerers and other spontaneous casters can't use Earth Spell at all.
Edit: I guess there is also c), even though I'm Heightening it using DMM, I'm still actually only using a 1st level slot. So Earth Spell would only make it count as a level 2 spell, despite the fact that it is Heightened to 9th level. I think this is an interesting argument. RAW-wise, it might be correct. If you're going to allow DMM: Heighten at all though, it is kind of a silly interpretation. What if someone had Metamagic School Focus, Arcane Thesis, or some other feat and applied it to Heighten? This interpretation would also screw them up.
If this were for a real game, I can totally see a DM not allowing it. There are plenty of reasons to do so without having to even bother over-analyzing the RAW of things. The version that I made for an actual game does not use DMM: Heighten Spell at all (link below).
Since this is for an Arena contest to pit the most optimized and overpowered characters possible at each other, barring infinite loops and the like, I figured it was perfect for it.
Also, if the Kharma Bead strand of prayer beads costs more than 16,500 gold you can't have it for this. Qualifying for these PrC's in the way you described is entirely RAI. And I think you forgot to list your attributes :P
What does that mean, entirely RAI? As opposed to RAW? I listed a couple of alternative methods that are rock solid ways to enter it, if the DM won't allow the Heighten Spell trick to qualify.
I didn't post an entire character. I posted an idea for one. I also didn't list skills, a full equipment list, a name, etc. I might go back and finish it if I have time. If not, the DM or players can flesh it out if they're interested. Here is a link to a similiar character I'm using that they can modify, in case I don't get to fleshing this one out.
You're right about the Karma Bead, but after rereading Earth Spell, it doesn't really matter. That feat also boosts your caster level, which I'd forgotten. So if he cast the Contingency as a 10th level spell it would add +9 to his CL, making it 20. So he could put whatever he wants in it without the Karma Bead.
If you want to discuss the legality of tricks fundamental to this build, let's do it in the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook, if you want. This build is just an extension of one of mine in there. I'm afraid we're hijacking this thread.
Just keep the ideas comming.
Now i figured a blanket rule saying "no leadership, hirelings and the like" would help keep the complexity of the build, but if your hellbent on making a build that needs a bit "assistance" from 1 mount, or a level 1 commoner flag bearer or something similar, feel free to post it. If its simple enough to implement into the contest, it will be considered, but if you end up with 45852179 animals/undead/soldiers or something similar, it will just be ignored when time comes around for us to pick the build we will use in the contest.
So my artificer that controls an army of demons and devils is right out then? No leadership and he doesnt buy them but summons them with scrolls or the like and binds them to his will using enchantment spells
Wouldn't the Illusion you create also have the [Air] descriptor as it is mimicing a summon spell, which has its own rules for determining its descriptors? (Illusion [Shadow, Air])
Arcane Thesis and other Improved Metamagic effects do nothing to Heighten Spell. (ie there is no slot adjustment)
Knowledge (the planes) DC 46 to even KNOW that air elemental monoliths exist.
There is a 2nd level cleric spell in the Spell Compendium that can give a +15 insight bonus. Cast Fox's Cunning, and 14 ranks +15insight +3int means he gets it on a 14. I know there are other spells that can add to this too, and he could get a +5 competence item for 2500 gp, or a +5 compentence bonus from a Psionic Crystal Shard for 1250. The skill trick Collector of Stories also adds +5, but I forget what kind of bonus that is.
And this is all assuming that he even has to make that skill check. Since we're also talking about a 9th level spell that calls a very specific kind of creature, a DC 15 or 20 Knowledge Arcana check is arguably just as appropriate. Do you think a DM would make most wizards make that check before casting the spell Summon Elemental Monolith? I don't think anything in the rules says he needs to make any skill check at all to do it.
Wouldn't the Illusion you create also have the [Air] descriptor as it is mimicing a summon spell, which has its own rules for determining its descriptors? (Illusion [Shadow, Air])
No. He's not casting a summoning spell. If he cast a Silent Illusion and made it look like a Wall of Fire, would it gain the Fire descriptor?
to save this resource:D
Thanks for bumping all these to save them. I wonder what ever happened with this one. We never got a report on the results. :D
neither did i ... still there are some nice useful ideas here
:D