Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kaius Jul 26, 2010 11:45:39	Ok optimizers... I am joining a campaign starting at 12th level. All the characters have to have between 5 and 8 monster levels which may or may not include racial hit dice and templates. We will have as much control over our stats as we have patience - we get a free 18, then you just keep rolling sets using 4d6-lowest for the next 5 stats, you can just keep rolling until you get something you like, so my stats will be pretty good. The only catch is that we have no magic items to start. We are starting as slave-gladiators in an arena. I think we get one masterwork weapon of our choice and probably basic armor and clothes. Even a wizard can't have a spellbook unless is it tattooed to their body or some such. I guess we will be breaking out pretty quickly, at least that is what I am planning, then we will have to scrounge for equipment. So far I think there will be a fighter-type, cleric, and a doppleganger rogue skill monkey. It might be good to have a spell caster but I don't have any good ideas for one, and am not really that attached to the idea of playing a spellcaster anyway. Does anyone have any interesting builds or can recommend a good source of playable monster races? I think all the players will be pretty powerful so I am also looking for some good ol' overpowered character builds for inspiration. Thanks in advance...
#2 lo77o Jul 26, 2010 12:57:39	I dont know how "high powered" you need to be, but if you want to be a monster wizard, you could play a Hobgoblin Warcaster from MM5 p.86. They have Wizard casting as 4th level wizards, and they stack with wizard levels. They have 4 monstrous HD, and LA +3. Add in the racial +6 INT and +6 CON, and Full BaB from racial HD. Take a level in wizard, and trade scribe scroll and a familiar for Eidetic Spellcaster from Dragon 357. This grants you a "mental" spellbook. After that, you can go into a gish prc if you want, or another casting prc.
#3 Balthanon Jul 26, 2010 13:20:08	If you're looking for as powerful as you get, I can recommend the Sharn, from the Annarauch book.  They have the complete gamut of abilities at ECL 9-- 9 arms, +8 or +10 to most of their stats, sorcerer and favored soul casting, regeneration, spell resistance, damage reduction, natural armor, multiple actions per round, reach, hex portals (i.e. little independent floating portals you can attack or cast through) and more. You can take them in the "blender" direction for melee or ranged two-weapon fighting or focus on spellcasting by bumping up your spellcasting with mystic theurge-- which they qualify for out of the box.  I wouldn't go too overboard though with the stats though-- they're brutal enough as is.   An example of one (ECL 17 that I'm playing) can be found here.  One thing you could do on the melee side is go with something like Sharn 9/Swordsage 2/Battle Dancer 1-- that should give you an AC that's nearly untouchable plus a few maneuvers.  It might be fun to stick around the arena for awhile laughing at the other gladiators and being one side of a mock war simulation. ;) If you have more details on the other characters' builds, I would suggest posting them, that should give us a better idea of what power level you're actually expecting.
#4 kaius Jul 26, 2010 22:45:06	Those seem good, the Sharn, though awesome, appears crazier then I was expecting, I wouldn't even know how to begin roleplaying that thing. What about races that make good psionics? I guess anything with a mega INT bonus works as a psion. Too bad illithid are too high of an adjustment as far as I can tell.
#5 urpriest Jul 27, 2010 1:16:07	Unbodied are often overlooked, and get 4th level Telepath casting from 4 racial HD, with a +4 level adjustment. They're also naturally incorporeal (not ethereal) and can look like anything and communicate telepathically.
#6 ah_andras Jul 27, 2010 2:42:45	What about a Drider? 6HD+4LA Counts as 6 level Cleric ,Wiz or Sorc +4 or +6 to all stats   Add 2 levels of a prestige class I've always thought it would be funny to play a Drider that ran afoul of a Helm of Alignment Change and was a LG Paladin.
#7 Balthanon Jul 27, 2010 13:53:39	I've always thought it would be funny to play a Drider that ran afoul of a Helm of Alignment Change and was a LG Paladin.  That could be amusing actually-- Drider 6/Cloistered Cleric 1/Prestige Paladin 1, using the mounted feats like Spirited Charge on yourself (similar to how centaurs operate).  8th level cleric casting, which gets you all paladin spells, drider abilities, 3 domains, smite evil, and detect evil.  Use Battle Casting for swift action paladin spells and With a longer term build in mind, I would probably go with Drider 6/Knight of the Ravens 3/Prestige Paladin 3/Knight of the Ravens 4 instead to keep up the base attack bonus.  Of course, that also hurts spellcasting more. Either way, not exactly a powerhouse, but it's an interesting choice. Back on the arcane side, another fun race to play with is Sylph, from the Monster Manual II-- they have 3 racial hit dice and +5 LA with a racial progression of up to 9 HD.  They cast spells as a sorcerer equal to their hit dice +4 though, which means 7 levels of sorcerer spellcasting at ECL 8.  You don't do too much better when it comes to LA adjusted races.  (And they're far less odd than a sharn-- though playing out three personalities can be fun with those.  I made my sharn into a love triangle. ) They have nice stats (+6 to Cha among other things), greater invisibility at will, flight, spell resistance, plus a few other goodies, and the nice thing about their racial progression is that you can take outsider hit dice up to ECL 14-- which give you 8 skill points per level, d8 hit dice, full base attack bonus, all good saves, and martial weapon proficiency.  Follow that up with Abjurant Champion afterwards and you're nearly to ECL 20 without every taking a base attack bonus hit (outside of your LA, of course.)
#8 kaius Jul 27, 2010 21:53:06	I had an idea for some kind of shadow warrior. Fighter class with some kind of shadow template or race. The shade race from Races of Faerun looks like it has powerful abilities. +4 level adjustment is kind of a bit much though, but being able to dimension door almost at will amongst a lot of other abilities seems good. Then I would just need some kind of level adjustment +1 race or template to make it within the minimum 5 adjustment. I would probably need something that had some good stat bonuses, preferably strength. I was thinking a fighter using the fullblade (large bastard sword) or something.  I admit though I just like the image, I can't figure out any kind of way to make this at all competitive. There will be a doppleganger rogue, and a  minotaur fighter. Some kind of cleric but I don't remember what race they were taking.
#9 Balthanon Jul 30, 2010 0:14:46	If you're talking actual fighter, I probably wouldn't go with Shade-- while they have some interesting abilities, the +4 likely wouldn't balance out and you wouldn't have the dimension door ability, since you need to have 8 character levels for that.  (And you'll only have 7.) You could go with the Shadow template out of Lords of Madness instead-- that lets you pick up some similar abilities for +2 LA.  You could then pick out another race that is a better fighter-- thri-kreen possibly. A couple other interesting races that are good for fighters with some additional interesting skills are Yak Folk (MM2, can possess humans and giants, command genies, and use staves automatically), Maug (FF, an intelligent construct), or a lycanthrope (MM).
#10 scinoisp Jul 30, 2010 16:28:18	Wizard (Class from Players Handbook) Blue (Race from Expanded Psionics Handbook) Lich (Templete from Monster Manual) Need I say more?
#11 scinoisp Jul 30, 2010 16:30:05	Convince your DM to use the paying off level adjustment from Unearthed Arcane even if you don't use my idea, believe me, you'll want it.
#12 urpriest Jul 30, 2010 22:30:53	Wizard (Class from Players Handbook) Blue (Race from Expanded Psionics Handbook) Lich (Templete from Monster Manual) Need I say more? Liches need CL 11. How are you managing that?
#13 salla Jul 30, 2010 22:32:55	never mind, misread.
#14 Balthanon Jul 31, 2010 6:41:13	Wizard (Class from Players Handbook) Blue (Race from Expanded Psionics Handbook) Lich (Templete from Monster Manual) Need I say more? Liches need CL 11. How are you managing that? That's an interesting question actually-- if you lose the caster level requirement, do you remain a lich?  For instance, I think it might be possible to pull this off (in this game) if you were a lich who had it's phylactery destroyed and was then killed via hit point damage and revived with the Revive Undead spell from Libris Mortis 4 times or more (depending on your starting level). That would remove 4 levels from the lich, at which point he had to sell most of his remaining equipment (with the adventurers who pulled this off stealing the rest) to finance recreating his phylactery.  Leaving him with only 88,000 gold, mysteriously exactly the amount a 12th level character normally has for that level. That would actually make for an amusing player-- some 1500 year old lich who's been living in solitude for a thousand years forced into adventuring again to recover his levels and magical equipment.  I could just see him grumbling about how adventuring today isn't like adventuring was in the good old days last millenium... Mind you, the character wouldn't be terribly useful since he would be down 5 caster levels going up against EL 12 encounters, but most liches face that problem.
#15 dead_weasel Aug 01, 2010 10:28:16	This build uses whatever it can to fight for it. Decent saves and Cha and Wis to AC (in or out of armor) are a good start; DR+resist 5 and some immunities help out too. The real survival strategy is just to occupy something: that way you get immunity to everything until the object's hp runs out; there are a number of spells that would/could/should eject you, but the Native subtype means you get to stay where you are. Jackpot. Human Unholy Scion (+5 LA) Swordsage 2/Monk 1/Fiend of Possession 4 Proceed with FoP +2/Master of Nine 5/LA buyoff (-1 LA)/Swordsage +2 (final initiator level 12) Cha is your first and biggest priority, since it raises your save DCs. Getting into Master of Nine will suck up all of your feats and maneuvers; skill points should go to key skills whenever possible; Hide is a given, Diplomacy and Sense Motive are cheap from FoP. You want your stances to synergize as well as possible. Discipline Weapon Focus should probably go to Tiger Claw, since it applies to claw attacks and unarmed strikes. Strategy: 1) Possess & animate Gargantuan object; trample. 2) If no large objects are available: possess & animate rope, vine, etc.; constrict. 3) If no suitable objects are available: use area buff/debuff SLA's while enhancing (read: hiding in) an ally's weapon or armor. 4) If hiding is not an option: flee in any direction. 5) Antimagic zone: seriously consider fleeing the old-fashioned way. Post-FoP6 Strategy: 1) Possess enemy: RAMPAGE. Simpler Build: Any Humanoid (Unholy Scion 5-1)Swordsage 2/Hexblade 1/Fiend of Possession 6/Swordsage +9 > No Master of Nine bonuses, but freedom of choice is nice to have too.