| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1skyknightjApr 20, 2009 14:07:34 | What are the absolute best pieces of equipment to buy in order to: 1. Win initiative on the 1st round and catch the enemy flat-footed. 2. Have the good luck of being situated within 30 feet (sneak attack). 3. Throw a ridiculous number of daggers at one enemy, killing them. 4. Grin at the DM as he realizes you just one rounded his villain. The character in question would be level 20 (with the expected character wealth of 760,000gp), BAB of 17, have Greater two-weapon fighting, Palm Throw, Insightful strike, and sneak attack 8d6 at the very least. I think most of the money should go into the weapons. Depending on which of my ideas below stack, I would be throwing 28 daggers minimum, probably more. None of them need to be returning since I can retrieve them from the villain's body (they are going to die before teleporting anywhere). Adding enhancements such as Flaming is straightforward, but I prefer Spell Storing and having a level 20 druid friend who is willing to cast Poison a bunch of times. I'm not really sure what weapon additions are the most damaging. The meteoric knife is nice, since you get a flaming, returning, fireball-causing throw 1/day for under 3000gp per dagger. Only one dagger needs to have the Warning ability for a nice +5 to initiative if I start combat with it in my hand. Gloves of Dex help too of course. The belt of battle is awesome... an extra full round action 1/day! But I don't know whether this effect stacks with haste or not. Technically it doesn't give you an extra attack, it gives you an extra full-round action. So it's like having two turns. In a related idea, the Bracers of the Blinding Strike (magic of faerun) in addition to giving you +6 armor and Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, they add an extra attack when you full attack. Does this stack with the belt of battle? If so then we're getting into an obscene number of daggers. Granted I think this item is 3.0 so might be considered unbalanced for 3.5 play, what do you guys think? I can depend on you guys to make it a truly memorable experience for the unfortunate pincushion. ![]() |
| #2phaedrusxyApr 20, 2009 14:17:23 | I think there is a feat that lets you treat daggers as monk weapons (in an Eberron book). That and Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5 gets you two extra attacks at full BAB. Then add GTWF, Rapid Shot, Haste, and Palm Throw with +16 BAB for... 22 attacks in a full attack, without going totally crazy with multi-armed races, etc. Get a wand chamber and a wand of nerveskitter for +5 to Initiative, and another wand of Sign (cleric spell, SC) for +4 more. Alternatively, you could go with a psionic-based build and the Tashalatora feat for Greater Flurry and +16 BAB (using Warmind or Slayer). Ardent 3/Monk 2/Slayer 10/Master Thrower 5 with Practiced Manifester (Ardent) would have BAB +18 and 9th level Psionic Powers, and all of the above. I guess you're mainly looking for equipment suggestions, eh? :P It's going to be prohibitively expensive to enchant that many daggers. I'd suggest just using normal ones, and getting the party casters to slap a (Chained) Greater Magic Weapon, Weapon of Energy, and other weapon enhancing spells on them. See if you can use "throwing daggers", and count them as ammunition so you can hit 50 at once per spell. I seem to remember actual stats for those somewhere, but I forget where... |
| #3bitznarfApr 20, 2009 14:34:56 | You'll want an eager weapon as well. You'll also need to keep an eye on which extra attack abilities stack. Several of them don't stack with Rapid Shot etc. if I recall correctly. |
| #4pithicaApr 20, 2009 15:20:17 | It's not as good as Phaedrus's Monk/Shou disciple fury above, but I built a... Rogue 3/Swashie 7/Invisible Blade 5/Master Thrower 5 ...and it felt pretty solid as an NPC. It worked really well as a glass cannon. |
| #5gorfnad_the_shiznitApr 20, 2009 21:30:23 | From another thread I posted toThis is a very simple yet usually effective dagger build Also you could very easily turn this into a Bandoleer of Infinite Daggers by replacing the words arrow(s) with dagger(s) and quiver(s) with bandoleer(s). Taken from The Lone Drow: Companions of the Hall |
| #6BalthanonApr 20, 2009 23:30:28 | Rogue 7/Warblade 2/Fighter 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Master Thrower 3/Bloodclaw Master 2 might work as well, eliminating the need for carrying around a metric ton of daggers. That should pick up 4d6 sneak attack through Rogue levels, 2d6 more through Martial Study (Assassin's Stance), 17 base attack bonus, no two-weapon fighting penalties, full Str attack on off-hand attacks (not an issue when using palm shot), master thrower tricks, and a total of 6 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 11 attacks base (w/haste). So 22 with palm throw-- equivalent to the monk build, though this one loses two attacks every other round while recovering maneuvers. On the other hand, it does pick up Lightning Ricochet so you can use two full enchanted daggers for your attack routine. The final total should be something like +16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+6/+6/+1 before Dex and enhancement bonuses with each attack doing 1d3 + 6d6 + 20 + Dex. Adding Daring Outlaw into the mix would require sacrificing either Craven or Shadow Blade, though it would bump up BAB slightly. Probably Shadow Blade actually, since that is melee only now that I look at it. Or alternatively, getting rid of Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and using Gloves of the Balanced Hand for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. That would free up two feats and also allow you to pick up Shadow Stride for a 50 foot move action teleport. |
| #7sofawallApr 20, 2009 23:33:26 | Well, for any "massive damage in one round" character, I'm a fan of the Factotum. Iaijutsu Focus, emulate Sneak Attack and extra standard actions. Not optimized, but useful outside of combat/for more than first round. Maybe throw in Whisper Gnome/Collar of Umbral, sneak around a lot for flat-footed... Yeah. I'm actually playing one of those right now :D And aren't there daggers that add 2d6 sneak attack? That is, if you want to spend mad cash on them. |
| #8hsienApr 21, 2009 7:40:35 | Sidenote: Palm Throw (Master thrower trick) only applies Sneak dice to one of thrown weapons. Per errata, it is a volley similar to manyshot. I also like MT trick, Deadly Precision, iirc, increases Crit Mutiplier by +1 So daggers are x3 on crit. |
| #9SenevriApr 21, 2009 9:39:11 | One trick pony? Try this: TWF, Rapid Shot, Haste, Belt of Battle. At least 8 spell-storing daggers, CL 11. Store Scorching Ray spells in the daggers, 96d6 fire+8d4+normal damage. Now, there are many ways to tweak this further: - combust has better bang for the buck, - actually possessing Sneak Attack helps. About 5d6 or something should do. - Metamagick'd spell still counts as a spell of it's original level, so twin emp combust. |
| #10true_shinkenApr 21, 2009 10:59:06 | Organrippers FTW |
| #11skyknightjApr 22, 2009 11:50:45 | Thanks for the input guys. Gorfnad, that is pretty much the build I was thinking of except replace the fighter levels with rogue as I am also trying to be the party's skill monkey. It seems like a combination of Haste, Belt of Battle, and spell storing daggers will make for the most damage. By my math we're looking at damage that exceeds 1000 in a single round. Most humanoid targets can't survive that kind of assault, and even undead/constructs with immunity to sneak attack and insightful strike are going to be hurting. The DM would try to counter this kind of build with a creature that has 10+ DR (it applies to each dagger unfortunately) and immune to crits/fire etc. Also remember the individual dagger has to do at least 1 point after DR to trigger its spell. So this kind of attack will be foiled sometimes. Senevri, scorching ray seems like a good option for a stored spell, but I'm not sure it's allowed. The RAW state: "A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon." For spells that have a touch attack, this is no problem. But what about rays? Would I then have to make a ranged/melee touch attack for each ray that shoots from the dagger... even though I just stabbed them with it? Or would most people rule that each ray from the spell automatically hits? If my dagger attack is a crit, does that make each of the rays a crit? Something about this seems wrong. Plus all the examples for stored spells in the DMG are touch spells. However you point out the "Combust" spell from the spell compendium, which is a 1d8/level fire touch attack. That seems pretty wicked, if I can persuade the evoker in my party to learn it. Another problem with *throwing* a spell storing dagger is that the spell storing enhancement is only available for melee weapons, so I'm not sure if the designers intended the ability to be used at range. The RAW says you can choose to activate, or not activate, the stored spell as a free action on any hit. But if I'm no longer physically holding the dagger, how can I trigger the spell at all? Is this just a mental command? I just don't want to be perceived as breaking any rules written or implied. What say you rules lawyers? |
| #12dr_rocktopusApr 22, 2009 13:27:18 | I'm not a rules-lawyer, I'm a rules-samurai! Forgive me if I draw and strike, but RAI it is intended to work. |
| #13sofawallApr 22, 2009 15:07:20 | Factotum gets, what, 10 inspiration points? Spend all your feats on Font of Inspiration (7 HD + 2 flaws + 1 Human) gives 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+10 Insiration points, or 65 inspiration points. That's 65d6 on one attack per encounter. Even better though, in my opinion, is this: 8 Factotum/8 Iaijutsu Master/4 Fighter. You need at least 30 Int (for Font of Inspiration) (18+5 Tome+6 Item+1 HD) and you get 60 Inspiration points, or 20 extra standard actions per encounter. Assuming you have a 32 Cha (17+5 Tome+6 Item+4 HD), tough with a 32 point buy (leaves almost no points for dex or con) and Skill Focus for your bonus feat, you can get: Each standard action gives: (1d10 Katana+6d6 Iaijutsu Focus+66)*2 for One Strike, Two Cuts, and that's on a roll of 1 for your Iaijutsu Focus. Burn all Inspiration points and assume average rolls, (and keep Quick Drawing and dropping katanas) you'll do 42d10+252d6+2772, or average of 3885+63*Str Mod (using katana two handed). Oh, and all that's assuming you get a surprise round, so point some points in Hide/Move Silently, pick up a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis for HiPS and more sneaky mods, you'll kill stuff dead. Even so, however, your initiative will be Dex+Int+Cha+4, so you should go first anyway. Oh, the only thing is, you won't be using daggers. :D EDIT: Fighter instead of rogue means we lose 4d6 sneak attack, but frees up the HD feats for more Fonts of Inspiration. MOAR DAMAGE! (New damage total added up. Almost 1000 higher :D) |
| #14grayman19Apr 22, 2009 19:12:05 | Do I smell calamari? Really, the anthropomorphic squid is the king of throwing builds. Look him up |
| #15dr_rocktopusApr 22, 2009 19:21:13 | No. Just... Look, squidmen are all fine and good, but will you be the one to walk him? Will you remember to feed him? A squidman is a big responsibility! [CENTER]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-~ ~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The question, fundamentally, is how far down the rabbit hole you want to go? Making numbers go high is pretty much what we do here. Setting an upper-bound instead of a lower-bound is a good plan.[/CENTER] |