Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 floydian Mar 22, 2010 10:14:51	I am thinking about creating a Monk (2) / Warblade (2) / Dungeon Crasher (6) / Pyro (10) character, and had a couple questions regarding the pyro's hand afire.  Assuming I can make all the feats workout that I would like to take.  1. Can the Pyro's hand afire ability be used with touch attacks?  Will an opponent still take the fire damage when I make a touch attack?  (I'm assuming this is a yes as it seems you can make a range touch attack with the fire whip, and use the weapon afire ability with the whip)   2.  Assuming I take Stormguard Warrior feat, while I'm using that feat to make touch attacks and I have my hand afire up via the Pyro, will my opponent still take damage from the hand afire ability?  The feat implies damage made from the unarmed attack would be reduced to 0, however any other abilities, like the pyro's, would still do damage. Thanks for your help
#2 snakeman830 Mar 22, 2010 16:54:29	The answer to both questions is no.  You must make a successful weapon attack to deal the extra damage, just like you cant make touch attacks with a flaming weapon and have them do fire damage. Likewise, Stormgaurd Warrior says the touch attacks deal no damage.  It doesn't care what is causing the damage, they just don't deal damage.
#3 floydian Mar 23, 2010 7:53:40	So are you saying that the Firelash ability cannot be used with the weapon afire ability?
#4 snakeman830 Mar 23, 2010 11:01:33	So are you saying that the Firelash ability cannot be used with the weapon afire ability? You can use the Weapon Afire ability with the Fire Lash because the Fire lash is a weapon. Weapon Afire does its extra damage when the affected weapon lands a hit.  The Fire Lash is different from normal weapons in that a normal hit is a touch attack.  An unarmed strike, however, a normal hit is a normal attack.
#5 floydian Mar 23, 2010 19:50:19	So since the Fire Lash's "normal" hit is a touch attack my weapon afire ability will go off...  So by your logic, if I make my "normal" hits on my unarmed strikes a touch attack then Hand afire would then go off.  And if not, surely by your logic Weapon afire enchanted on my monky hands will go off... (After reading the Stormguard feat I agree with you, but suppose you were incorrect for a second) Since the Stormguard feat makes my attacks touch attacks, I guess from your logic above my hand afire ability would go off.   Since my unarmed strikes are "normalized" to being touch attacks.
#6 snakeman830 Mar 23, 2010 20:19:56	If a touch attack is how your unarmed stirke works, then yes, it does trigger.  However, unless you have a Wraithstrike spell or something similar, your unarmed strikes would not be touch attacks but normal melee attacks.  So, touch attacks wouldn't trigger the Hand/Weapon afire ability (interestingly, a Monk can activate both abilities on his unarmed strike).
#7 floydian Mar 23, 2010 20:27:35	Thanks much thats exactly what I was looking for.  I should have been a tad (or a lot :-) ) more clear on my initial post.  At any rate thanks for your help it was much appreciated. Thanks!
#8 phaedrusxy Mar 23, 2010 22:15:33	(interestingly, a Monk can activate both abilities on his unarmed strike). Ook. Hmm... yes, that's kind of interesting. So that's +6d6 fire damage and a boatload of attacks for a monk 11/pyro 9 with the two weapon fighting feats. Yeah, I know there are more optimal ways to do it, but that's the simplest. Hmm... this might get interesting when you start throwing in things like paladin levels and ascetic knight. If your DM actually enforces alignment restrictions, you might have to use one of the elemental variants, though. IIRC, cold requires lawful alignment.
#9 floydian Mar 23, 2010 22:47:15	(interestingly, a Monk can activate both abilities on his unarmed strike). Ook. Hmm... yes, that's kind of interesting. So that's +6d6 fire damage and a boatload of attacks for a monk 11/pyro 9 with the two weapon fighting feats. Yeah, I know there are more optimal ways to do it, but that's the simplest. Hmm... this might get interesting when you start throwing in things like paladin levels and ascetic knight. If your DM actually enforces alignment restrictions, you might have to use one of the elemental variants, though. IIRC, cold requires lawful alignment. Actually 8d6 of fire damage, since pyro 8 gives hand and weapon afire at 4d6 each. After looking at the feats, this is the build I came up with 3 Monk / 2 Psychic Warrior / 1 Warblade / 6 Fighter (with dungeon crasher sub levels) / 8 pyro Have to take Psychic Warrior to qualify for tashalatora feat since that requires the ability manifest 1st level powers (something that wild talent feat seems not to give you) Warblade allows me entry into Stormguard warrior to use in combination with the knockback+dungeon crasher (and what I hoped the afire abilities until that got shot down) Assuming you take tashalatora feat for Pyro...  Should give you Greater Flurry / 8d6 to bull rushes when you slam em against stuff and 8d6 of fire damage from pyro...
#10 snakeman830 Mar 24, 2010 13:26:01	Then if you really need a bit of extra fire damage still, you can activate your Nimbus ability and use your unarmed strikes to deliver those touch attacks for yet another 4d6 fire damage. If you're playing a Pyro right, you aren't stopped by anything short of immunity to fire (and there are still a few ways around that).
#11 phaedrusxy Mar 24, 2010 16:39:36	After looking at the feats, this is the build I came up with 3 Monk / 2 Psychic Warrior / 1 Warblade / 6 Fighter (with dungeon crasher sub levels) / 8 pyro Have to take Psychic Warrior to qualify for tashalatora feat since that requires the ability manifest 1st level powers (something that wild talent feat seems not to give you) Hidden Talent does, though. It's in the Expanded Psionics book. Take it instead, if the DM allows it.
#12 floydian Mar 24, 2010 21:21:22	After looking at the feats, this is the build I came up with 3 Monk / 2 Psychic Warrior / 1 Warblade / 6 Fighter (with dungeon crasher sub levels) / 8 pyro Have to take Psychic Warrior to qualify for tashalatora feat since that requires the ability manifest 1st level powers (something that wild talent feat seems not to give you) Hidden Talent does, though. It's in the Expanded Psionics book. Take it instead, if the DM allows it. Great find.  Didn't know about that feat.  Will fit the build perfectly!  Thanks!
#13 Chosenofragnarok Mar 25, 2010 8:34:31	would it not be better to take levels of warmind/psionic fist? 5monk/ 1 psionic fist/1 warblade/6 fighter/pyro x Actualy monk 1/fighter6/warmind 5/ pyro 8 Would work well Sweaping strikes, with the monk and pyro abilities hitting pritty much 2 people and pushing them back when there next to you may work well.
#14 snakeman830 Mar 25, 2010 10:47:25	If you go Pyro 8, you might as well go one more level for Heat Death.
#15 phaedrusxy Mar 25, 2010 15:15:17	If you go Pyro 8, you might as well go one more level for Heat Death. Yeah, except it costs you another point of BAB and you need a good charisma for the DC to be worth using. So I could see leaving it off if you just want to punch the crap out of people with your huge flaming fists of DOOM!