+2 tempelate worth it after buying off LA? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

+2 tempelate worth it after buying off LA?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Suppoko
Apr 22, 2008 5:28:11 Would it be worth it to take the saint tempelate(+2) after buying off a +2 LA race? Bear in mind the game will be going to at least 20. My concern is if it does go over 20 I will die quick like in epic if I am not there when the rest of the party is. Any help would be great thanks
#2
carnivore
Apr 22, 2008 5:42:57 the Saint Template is always worth it .... in fact it is worth more than +2LA .... but if you are going into EPIC Play....remember:

1)if you are a Non-Primary Spellcaster... make sure you have +16BAB Pre-EPIC

2)if you are a Primary Spellcaster ... make sure you can cast 9th lvl Spells

:D
#3
Suppoko
Apr 22, 2008 5:49:47 well thanks for the quick response and I will keep your suggestions in mind.
#4
ChristopherGroves
Apr 22, 2008 8:39:43 +1 Saint

Phrenic ain't bad either
#5
friendlyfrog
Apr 22, 2008 9:02:33 I'd say it depends on what you're playing. What does the rest of your character look like? If you're playing a primary caster, even Saint's probably not worth losing levels.
#6
carnivore
Apr 22, 2008 11:01:07 the Saint Template is always worth losing levels ....look at what it gives

Becomes a ‘Outsider (native)’
Immune to Acid, Cold, Electricity, & Petrifaction
Fire Resistance 10
+4 Racial bonus vs. Poison
Low-Light Vision
Darkvision 60’
+2 DC to all special attacks, spells, supernatural, spelllike, & extraordinary abilities.
Con +2
Wis +2
Cha +4

Tongues, always on.
Gain an Insight bonus to AC equal to the Saint’s Wisdom modifier
Holy Touch – the Saint’s melee attacks do +1d6 Holy damage vs. Evil creatures (or +1d8 vs. Evil Undead or Evil Outsiders). Any Evil creature that attacks the Saint with a Natural Attack takes the same amount of damage.
Able to cast Guidance, Resistance, Virtue, and Bless at will at Character level.
Gain Fast Healing (HD/2).
Protective Aura – 20’ radius nimbus of light that can be activated as a Free Action. Acts as a double strength Magic Circle against Evil and a Less Globe of Invulnerability.
Damage Reduction.... varies
4-7HD 5 / magic
8-11HD 5 / evil
12+HD 10 / evil

hmmmmm let me think .... ... YES it absolutely is worth 2 Caster levels of ANY CLASS

:D
#7
shigunaru
Apr 22, 2008 11:05:53
the Saint Template is always worth losing levels ....look at what it gives

Becomes a ‘Outsider (native)’
Immune to Acid, Cold, Electricity, & Petrifaction
Fire Resistance 10
+4 Racial bonus vs. Poison
Low-Light Vision
Darkvision 60’
+2 DC to all special attacks, spells, supernatural, spelllike, & extraordinary abilities.
Con +2
Wis +2
Cha +4

Tongues, always on.
Gain an Insight bonus to AC equal to the Saint’s Wisdom modifier
Holy Touch – the Saint’s melee attacks do +1d6 Holy damage vs. Evil creatures (or +1d8 vs. Evil Undead or Evil Outsiders). Any Evil creature that attacks the Saint with a Natural Attack takes the same amount of damage.
Able to cast Guidance, Resistance, Virtue, and Bless at will at Character level.
Gain Fast Healing (HD/2).
Protective Aura – 20’ radius nimbus of light that can be activated as a Free Action. Acts as a double strength Magic Circle against Evil and a Less Globe of Invulnerability.
Damage Reduction.... varies
4-7HD 5 / magic
8-11HD 5 / evil
12+HD 10 / evil

hmmmmm let me think .... ... YES it absolutely is worth 2 Caster levels of ANY CLASS

:D

+1000
#8
tazendrasghost
Apr 22, 2008 11:15:52 Just talk to your DM about the RP requirements. Its a ***** to lose the template from your actions.
#9
Suppoko
Apr 22, 2008 16:22:27
Just talk to your DM about the RP requirements. Its a ***** to lose the template from your actions.

Yeah we discussed that already, he is not the type to screw me over for fun but I gotta stay on the straight and narrow.

And I'm playing a Petal (yeah he allowed it to not be a cohort) and my build will eventually end up wiz20//sorc5/incantatrix10/archmage5 after LA buyoff that is.

I didn't mention we were gestalt did I? oops, Oh and there are 2 otehr casters in the party so I don't need to fill out the primary.
#10
pascalnz
Apr 22, 2008 18:50:53 my... dear .. god...
well if you just want to "win" grab the dark creature template from tome of magic for hide in plain sight, you can "buy" the template with a neck item for about 30k.cheap.!
the most insane thing in epic is being a wizard or rogue, as you can be totally invisible if you have hide in plain sight, if you take the dark stalker feat from lords of madness, the only way people can see you is with a spot check , no blindisght tremorsnese scent.. nothing. so if you grab everyhting you can to up your hide checks your basically completely immune.attacking only gives you a -20 to your hide checks, and you can get at least 100 hide check before 30th level
of course wizard is totally bonkers in epic as well, especially if your a conjurer, look up the conjurers handbook here.
I also suggest a level of nightmare spinner from complete mage as one level gets you immune to fear and gives you a bonus illusion spell for every spell level you have like specialising does, for.. no real cost.
#11
Suppoko
Apr 22, 2008 19:01:23
my... dear .. god...
well if you just want to "win" grab the dark creature template from tome of magic for hide in plain sight, you can "buy" the template with a neck item for about 30k.cheap.!
the most insane thing in epic is being a wizard or rogue, as you can be totally invisible if you have hide in plain sight, if you take the dark stalker feat from lords of madness, the only way people can see you is with a spot check , no blindisght tremorsnese scent.. nothing. so if you grab everyhting you can to up your hide checks your basically completely immune.attacking only gives you a -20 to your hide checks, and you can get at least 100 hide check before 30th level
of course wizard is totally bonkers in epic as well, especially if your a conjurer, look up the conjurers handbook here.
I also suggest a level of nightmare spinner from complete mage as one level gets you immune to fear and gives you a bonus illusion spell for every spell level you have like specialising does, for.. no real cost.

wouldn't these "dark" things ruin my saint tempelate? I am AFB so I can't look up your suggestions but I will when I get home thanks
#12
pascalnz
Apr 23, 2008 18:34:33 well the dark template and nightmare spinner arn't evil things, so it shuoldn't affect te saint at all, but as always, check with your dm:P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Suppoko Apr 22, 2008 5:28:11	Would it be worth it to take the saint tempelate(+2) after buying off a +2 LA race? Bear in mind the game will be going to at least 20. My concern is if it does go over 20 I will die quick like in epic if I am not there when the rest of the party is. Any help would be great thanks
#2 carnivore Apr 22, 2008 5:42:57	the Saint Template is always worth it .... in fact it is worth more than +2LA .... but if you are going into EPIC Play....remember: 1)if you are a Non-Primary Spellcaster... make sure you have +16BAB Pre-EPIC 2)if you are a Primary Spellcaster ... make sure you can cast 9th lvl Spells :D
#3 Suppoko Apr 22, 2008 5:49:47	well thanks for the quick response and I will keep your suggestions in mind.
#4 ChristopherGroves Apr 22, 2008 8:39:43	+1 Saint Phrenic ain't bad either
#5 friendlyfrog Apr 22, 2008 9:02:33	I'd say it depends on what you're playing. What does the rest of your character look like? If you're playing a primary caster, even Saint's probably not worth losing levels.
#6 carnivore Apr 22, 2008 11:01:07	the Saint Template is always worth losing levels ....look at what it gives Becomes a ‘Outsider (native)’ Immune to Acid, Cold, Electricity, & Petrifaction Fire Resistance 10 +4 Racial bonus vs. Poison Low-Light Vision Darkvision 60’ +2 DC to all special attacks, spells, supernatural, spelllike, & extraordinary abilities. Con +2 Wis +2 Cha +4 Tongues, always on. Gain an Insight bonus to AC equal to the Saint’s Wisdom modifier Holy Touch – the Saint’s melee attacks do +1d6 Holy damage vs. Evil creatures (or +1d8 vs. Evil Undead or Evil Outsiders). Any Evil creature that attacks the Saint with a Natural Attack takes the same amount of damage. Able to cast Guidance, Resistance, Virtue, and Bless at will at Character level. Gain Fast Healing (HD/2). Protective Aura – 20’ radius nimbus of light that can be activated as a Free Action. Acts as a double strength Magic Circle against Evil and a Less Globe of Invulnerability. Damage Reduction.... varies 4-7HD 5 / magic 8-11HD 5 / evil 12+HD 10 / evil hmmmmm let me think .... ... YES it absolutely is worth 2 Caster levels of ANY CLASS :D
#7 shigunaru Apr 22, 2008 11:05:53	the Saint Template is always worth losing levels ....look at what it gives Becomes a ‘Outsider (native)’ Immune to Acid, Cold, Electricity, & Petrifaction Fire Resistance 10 +4 Racial bonus vs. Poison Low-Light Vision Darkvision 60’ +2 DC to all special attacks, spells, supernatural, spelllike, & extraordinary abilities. Con +2 Wis +2 Cha +4 Tongues, always on. Gain an Insight bonus to AC equal to the Saint’s Wisdom modifier Holy Touch – the Saint’s melee attacks do +1d6 Holy damage vs. Evil creatures (or +1d8 vs. Evil Undead or Evil Outsiders). Any Evil creature that attacks the Saint with a Natural Attack takes the same amount of damage. Able to cast Guidance, Resistance, Virtue, and Bless at will at Character level. Gain Fast Healing (HD/2). Protective Aura – 20’ radius nimbus of light that can be activated as a Free Action. Acts as a double strength Magic Circle against Evil and a Less Globe of Invulnerability. Damage Reduction.... varies 4-7HD 5 / magic 8-11HD 5 / evil 12+HD 10 / evil hmmmmm let me think .... ... YES it absolutely is worth 2 Caster levels of ANY CLASS :D +1000
#8 tazendrasghost Apr 22, 2008 11:15:52	Just talk to your DM about the RP requirements. Its a ***** to lose the template from your actions.
#9 Suppoko Apr 22, 2008 16:22:27	Just talk to your DM about the RP requirements. Its a ***** to lose the template from your actions. Yeah we discussed that already, he is not the type to screw me over for fun but I gotta stay on the straight and narrow. And I'm playing a Petal (yeah he allowed it to not be a cohort) and my build will eventually end up wiz20//sorc5/incantatrix10/archmage5 after LA buyoff that is. I didn't mention we were gestalt did I? oops, Oh and there are 2 otehr casters in the party so I don't need to fill out the primary.
#10 pascalnz Apr 22, 2008 18:50:53	my... dear .. god... well if you just want to "win" grab the dark creature template from tome of magic for hide in plain sight, you can "buy" the template with a neck item for about 30k.cheap.! the most insane thing in epic is being a wizard or rogue, as you can be totally invisible if you have hide in plain sight, if you take the dark stalker feat from lords of madness, the only way people can see you is with a spot check , no blindisght tremorsnese scent.. nothing. so if you grab everyhting you can to up your hide checks your basically completely immune.attacking only gives you a -20 to your hide checks, and you can get at least 100 hide check before 30th level of course wizard is totally bonkers in epic as well, especially if your a conjurer, look up the conjurers handbook here. I also suggest a level of nightmare spinner from complete mage as one level gets you immune to fear and gives you a bonus illusion spell for every spell level you have like specialising does, for.. no real cost.
#11 Suppoko Apr 22, 2008 19:01:23	my... dear .. god... well if you just want to "win" grab the dark creature template from tome of magic for hide in plain sight, you can "buy" the template with a neck item for about 30k.cheap.! the most insane thing in epic is being a wizard or rogue, as you can be totally invisible if you have hide in plain sight, if you take the dark stalker feat from lords of madness, the only way people can see you is with a spot check , no blindisght tremorsnese scent.. nothing. so if you grab everyhting you can to up your hide checks your basically completely immune.attacking only gives you a -20 to your hide checks, and you can get at least 100 hide check before 30th level of course wizard is totally bonkers in epic as well, especially if your a conjurer, look up the conjurers handbook here. I also suggest a level of nightmare spinner from complete mage as one level gets you immune to fear and gives you a bonus illusion spell for every spell level you have like specialising does, for.. no real cost. wouldn't these "dark" things ruin my saint tempelate? I am AFB so I can't look up your suggestions but I will when I get home thanks
#12 pascalnz Apr 23, 2008 18:34:33	well the dark template and nightmare spinner arn't evil things, so it shuoldn't affect te saint at all, but as always, check with your dm:P