[3.5] 7th Level Cleric Archer, Prestige Suggestions - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5] 7th Level Cleric Archer, Prestige Suggestions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
willypete
Jan 26, 2009 9:43:23 I am looking to build a good-aligned cleric archer to replace the cleric archer I was just playing that got sliced to pieces last night by Huge Scorpions.

My first effort was alright (Elf Cleric 5/ Fighter 1/Stormlord 1, Forgotten Realms setting), but as you might note I swallowed an xp penalty which sucked, and lost a spell progression level which perhaps sucked even more.

First note, the DM is allowing me to use Stormlord, and subing my longbow for the javelin-abilities of that class. I tried working up a near duplicate without the fighter level, but the two crappy feats for Stormlord's reqs is putting me in a situation where I can only have 1 of Zen Archery, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot.

Books allowed: basically every Complete, Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium. No BoED. 75 Attribute Points with complete freedom of purchase.

Here's my rough effort so far:
Race: Elf Align: NG Class: Cleric 5/Stormlord 2
Str: 18 Dex: 10 Con: 10 Int: 10 Wis: 18 Chr: 10
Domains: Elf (Point Blank Shot), War (Weapon Focus, Cmp. Longbow)
Feats: Endurance, Great Fort, Zen Archery

So..any suggestions? I would be happy to replace Stormlord with something else, but I personally have a fairly limited set of books and haven't found any other full-caster-progression classes that add much to a ranged attacker. I would REALLY like to keep full caster progression because I am the only healer in the party.

Edit: I'd love suggestions of equipment, feat selection, etc. as well, not just Prestige Class.
#2
pithica
Jan 26, 2009 10:43:49 If you go human over elf, you can trade out the human bonus feat for the fighter feat you lose without risking a caster level.

I normally suggest going Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Devotion right into Church Inquisitor before dipping out into the full Cleric PrC you really want at 6 (or whenever you first qualify), but I don't think that goes with the flavor of Talos if that's how you plan on rolling.
#3
willypete
Jan 26, 2009 12:15:26 Thanks for the advice!

But if I go Human over Elf, I lose proficiency with Longbows and the Elf Domain, that is getting me Point Blank Shot. So I lose two feats to gain one.

I have seen Cloistered Cleric suggested alot on this board. Could someone explain to a noob like me explain the advantage of starting out in a class with a poor bab, no armor profs, and a lowered hit die when trying to make a martial cleric?

Church Inquisitor may actually work out very well though. I'm not playing a follower of Talos, the DM basically figured a ranged-weapon-based, fighty prc was a good fit for the Elf God of Archery, so he let me adapt Stormlord to Solonor Thelanderia (spelling? I have no books handy).

And since my last cleric just died in the middle of the desert with a book of demon-summoning rituals in his back pack...this seems like a good time for the Church to send an inquisitor.
#4
hsien
Jan 26, 2009 12:42:09 Cloistered Cleric: Gives the Knowledge Domain as a free (bonus) domain

Common practise is to trade Domain in for Knowledge Devotion(CoChamp)
Now you make a knowledge check to get bonuses to hit/damage

Combine that with Collector of Stories (CoScoundrel) to get +5 to that Knowledge check
And there's a 2nd lvl spell, iirc, that gives a bonus to knowledge checks Pretty easy to start racking up at least +3 hit/damage even at low-level

Also see Swift Hunters (Scout/Ranger) dip into Cloistered Cleric for this reason and Travel Domain, traded for Devotion.
#5
pithica
Jan 26, 2009 12:57:54 I thought Clerics got Martial Weapon Prof in the favored weapon of their Deity automatically? (Or is that just a house-rule in my group?) Even if it doesn't with just cleric, Solonar has War domain, which grants both Weapon Focus (sucky feat, but oh well), and proficiency.

You can still take the Elf domain as a human that worships a deity that grants access to it. At least, I see nothing in the rules that limits it.

As far as Cloistered Cleric goes, you're only taking 3 (or 4) levels of it, ever, the rest of your levels are going to be in cleric PrC's. So, compared to a standard cleric in an otherwise identical build, you're only losing 1 BAB overall, and a couple of hitpoints. In exchange you get a much larger number of skill points to start with (which is one of the hardest parts for qualifying for a bunch of prc's), and the knowledge domain for free (which you trade for knowledge devotion). Knowledge Devotion is a feat from Complete Champion that lets you make a knowledge check on the first round of combat to gain a bonus to ALL rolls to hit and damage versus that creature type (from +1 to +5) for the entire encounter. Since the minimum bonus from know-devotion cancels the maximum loss to BAB for taking Cloistered Cleric over cleric (and you're probably eventually going to be using Divine Power for BAB anyway), it more than balances out.

Church Inquisitor, by default, is normally limited to LN and LG clerics of an LG church. I personally have changed (in my games), the 'Detect Evil' benefit to 'Detect Chaos' and opened it to any Lawful follower of any Lawful church. If your DM is willing to open it to Chaotic followers of a chaotic church (by focusing it on Good rather than lawful churches) that's his business, but by RaW you can't take it.

However, you can go...

Human Cloistered Cleric of Solonar 3 (Elf, War (or Chaos Devotion or Plant Devotion if you don't need the weapon prof), and Knowledge Devotion)/Human Paragon 3 (you lose a caster level here, but gain a bonus feat, open skills, adaptive learning, and +2 Wis (or Con/Dex/Whatever if you don't need the Wis)/Stormlord 1

That gives you either one or two extra feats, by my reconing over your current build (Cleric 5/Figh 1/Storm 1), the same Caster Level, and a BAB one lower (+3 vs +4), but knowledge devotion capable of overshooting that (and adding damage to every attack/spell/et al) and the +2 Wis which will add an additional +1 to hit with Zen Archery.

You don't need to really worry about healing, it should generally be like 5th or 6th priority in your round by round 'what do I do now' list.
#6
jaronk
Jan 26, 2009 17:53:03 PrC Ranger would give you all Ranger only spells on your spell list, which gives you a bunch of amazing archery spells... that are AWESOME if persisted. So consider that. PrC Ranger 2 is a great dip that way.

JaronK
#7
emy
Jan 26, 2009 18:25:28
PrC Ranger would give you all Ranger only spells on your spell list, which gives you a bunch of amazing archery spells... that are AWESOME if persisted. So consider that. PrC Ranger 2 is a great dip that way.

JaronK

IIRC that's not actually a feature of a Prestige Ranger class, but a variant/houserule sidebar. It's the same deal as PrC Paladin adding Paladin's spell list to a Cleric.
#8
jenos
Jan 26, 2009 22:27:32 Its very wierd. In the sidebar, it states that you should give the core ranger/bard/paladin spells to the character, however spells from additional books ares subject to DM approval. Even though its in a sidebar, it states that it should be done, which is even more confusing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 willypete Jan 26, 2009 9:43:23	I am looking to build a good-aligned cleric archer to replace the cleric archer I was just playing that got sliced to pieces last night by Huge Scorpions. My first effort was alright (Elf Cleric 5/ Fighter 1/Stormlord 1, Forgotten Realms setting), but as you might note I swallowed an xp penalty which sucked, and lost a spell progression level which perhaps sucked even more. First note, the DM is allowing me to use Stormlord, and subing my longbow for the javelin-abilities of that class. I tried working up a near duplicate without the fighter level, but the two crappy feats for Stormlord's reqs is putting me in a situation where I can only have 1 of Zen Archery, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot. Books allowed: basically every Complete, Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium. No BoED. 75 Attribute Points with complete freedom of purchase. Here's my rough effort so far: Race: Elf Align: NG Class: Cleric 5/Stormlord 2 Str: 18 Dex: 10 Con: 10 Int: 10 Wis: 18 Chr: 10 Domains: Elf (Point Blank Shot), War (Weapon Focus, Cmp. Longbow) Feats: Endurance, Great Fort, Zen Archery So..any suggestions? I would be happy to replace Stormlord with something else, but I personally have a fairly limited set of books and haven't found any other full-caster-progression classes that add much to a ranged attacker. I would REALLY like to keep full caster progression because I am the only healer in the party. Edit: I'd love suggestions of equipment, feat selection, etc. as well, not just Prestige Class.
#2 pithica Jan 26, 2009 10:43:49	If you go human over elf, you can trade out the human bonus feat for the fighter feat you lose without risking a caster level. I normally suggest going Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge Devotion right into Church Inquisitor before dipping out into the full Cleric PrC you really want at 6 (or whenever you first qualify), but I don't think that goes with the flavor of Talos if that's how you plan on rolling.
#3 willypete Jan 26, 2009 12:15:26	Thanks for the advice! But if I go Human over Elf, I lose proficiency with Longbows and the Elf Domain, that is getting me Point Blank Shot. So I lose two feats to gain one. I have seen Cloistered Cleric suggested alot on this board. Could someone explain to a noob like me explain the advantage of starting out in a class with a poor bab, no armor profs, and a lowered hit die when trying to make a martial cleric? Church Inquisitor may actually work out very well though. I'm not playing a follower of Talos, the DM basically figured a ranged-weapon-based, fighty prc was a good fit for the Elf God of Archery, so he let me adapt Stormlord to Solonor Thelanderia (spelling? I have no books handy). And since my last cleric just died in the middle of the desert with a book of demon-summoning rituals in his back pack...this seems like a good time for the Church to send an inquisitor.
#4 hsien Jan 26, 2009 12:42:09	Cloistered Cleric: Gives the Knowledge Domain as a free (bonus) domain Common practise is to trade Domain in for Knowledge Devotion(CoChamp) Now you make a knowledge check to get bonuses to hit/damage Combine that with Collector of Stories (CoScoundrel) to get +5 to that Knowledge check And there's a 2nd lvl spell, iirc, that gives a bonus to knowledge checks Pretty easy to start racking up at least +3 hit/damage even at low-level Also see Swift Hunters (Scout/Ranger) dip into Cloistered Cleric for this reason and Travel Domain, traded for Devotion.
#5 pithica Jan 26, 2009 12:57:54	I thought Clerics got Martial Weapon Prof in the favored weapon of their Deity automatically? (Or is that just a house-rule in my group?) Even if it doesn't with just cleric, Solonar has War domain, which grants both Weapon Focus (sucky feat, but oh well), and proficiency. You can still take the Elf domain as a human that worships a deity that grants access to it. At least, I see nothing in the rules that limits it. As far as Cloistered Cleric goes, you're only taking 3 (or 4) levels of it, ever, the rest of your levels are going to be in cleric PrC's. So, compared to a standard cleric in an otherwise identical build, you're only losing 1 BAB overall, and a couple of hitpoints. In exchange you get a much larger number of skill points to start with (which is one of the hardest parts for qualifying for a bunch of prc's), and the knowledge domain for free (which you trade for knowledge devotion). Knowledge Devotion is a feat from Complete Champion that lets you make a knowledge check on the first round of combat to gain a bonus to ALL rolls to hit and damage versus that creature type (from +1 to +5) for the entire encounter. Since the minimum bonus from know-devotion cancels the maximum loss to BAB for taking Cloistered Cleric over cleric (and you're probably eventually going to be using Divine Power for BAB anyway), it more than balances out. Church Inquisitor, by default, is normally limited to LN and LG clerics of an LG church. I personally have changed (in my games), the 'Detect Evil' benefit to 'Detect Chaos' and opened it to any Lawful follower of any Lawful church. If your DM is willing to open it to Chaotic followers of a chaotic church (by focusing it on Good rather than lawful churches) that's his business, but by RaW you can't take it. However, you can go... Human Cloistered Cleric of Solonar 3 (Elf, War (or Chaos Devotion or Plant Devotion if you don't need the weapon prof), and Knowledge Devotion)/Human Paragon 3 (you lose a caster level here, but gain a bonus feat, open skills, adaptive learning, and +2 Wis (or Con/Dex/Whatever if you don't need the Wis)/Stormlord 1 That gives you either one or two extra feats, by my reconing over your current build (Cleric 5/Figh 1/Storm 1), the same Caster Level, and a BAB one lower (+3 vs +4), but knowledge devotion capable of overshooting that (and adding damage to every attack/spell/et al) and the +2 Wis which will add an additional +1 to hit with Zen Archery. You don't need to really worry about healing, it should generally be like 5th or 6th priority in your round by round 'what do I do now' list.
#6 jaronk Jan 26, 2009 17:53:03	PrC Ranger would give you all Ranger only spells on your spell list, which gives you a bunch of amazing archery spells... that are AWESOME if persisted. So consider that. PrC Ranger 2 is a great dip that way. JaronK
#7 emy Jan 26, 2009 18:25:28	PrC Ranger would give you all Ranger only spells on your spell list, which gives you a bunch of amazing archery spells... that are AWESOME if persisted. So consider that. PrC Ranger 2 is a great dip that way. JaronK IIRC that's not actually a feature of a Prestige Ranger class, but a variant/houserule sidebar. It's the same deal as PrC Paladin adding Paladin's spell list to a Cleric.
#8 jenos Jan 26, 2009 22:27:32	Its very wierd. In the sidebar, it states that you should give the core ranger/bard/paladin spells to the character, however spells from additional books ares subject to DM approval. Even though its in a sidebar, it states that it should be done, which is even more confusing.