[3.5] A Sacred Assassin?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

nickresonance

Sep 23, 2008 23:16:43
Alright, here's an interesting little concept I came up with. Basically, what we have here is a church assassin, a sort of "weapon of last resort", called upon only when no other alternatives have succeeded in solving whatever crisis is facing the church. Supposedly, anyway, campaign circumstances may have him being dispatched for petty rivalries, etc. But that's neither here nor there.

Now, before I let everyone go all willy nilly throwing ideas out, or yelling at me for not providing enough detail, I'll lay out the ground work that I thought up.

-His fighting style I see as being based on speed and agility, though not necessarily as a spring attacker (he'd be operating mostly in urban environs, so mobility will be limited). I'd like for him to be able to hold his own in at least one-on-one melee.
-The way I see him in my mind, he uses a short sword in his main hand, and keeps his offhand free for unarmed attacks/deflections. The deflection bit is easily covered by dodge AC bonuses, the unarmed attack skills would mostly come into play if he's disarmed for whatever reason.
-Base class is certainly mutable. Right now swordsage is the clear favourite, with a Riposte scout a middling second choice. Prestige class is wide open, though the flavour of the Shadow Sun Ninja ties in to my overall concept very nicely.
-No campaign world details (such as races, wealth, magic, etc) are available at this time. The DM is out on training maneuvers in Halifax or somewhere. I have managed to get a list of books allowed, however. Everything except for psionics and incarnum are allowed. Dragon Magazine is on a case-by-case basis.
-No stats are available (again, DM, maneuvers). For simplicity, assume PHB human with at least 13 in Dexterity, Intelligence and Wisdom. I'd assign my scores to be able to match that.

So, classes, PrCs, feats, etc. Have at it with a will, CO board!
#2

kurashu

Sep 23, 2008 23:40:10
A weapon of last resort shouldn't be an assassin, If anything assassins should be one of the first lines of defense when dealing with a crisis. A weapon of last resort is something like Cheater of Mystra or Twice Betrayer of Shar.

Shou Disciple with shadowsun ninja and unarmed swordsage sounds like what you're describing.
#3

empirate

Sep 24, 2008 3:15:25
Two PrCs leap to mind, both rather FR-specific, though: The Black Flame Zealot is a divine caster (half progression) getting Sneak Attack and Death Attack. The Strifeleader gets a little more than half spellcasting progression, plus Death Attack and (rather late) Greater Death Attack (increasing the DC by 4). Black Flame Zealot also gets a few fire-related abilities, while Strifeleader gets some abilities related to bluffing and deception. Both are nicely balanced PrCs, flavorful but not overly powerful. BFZ has been reprinted in Complete Divine (making it eligible without campaign restrictions, though the flavor text in CD still speaks of Kossuth as your deity). Strifeleader is in Faiths and Pantheons (FR-specific, deity: Cyric).

Also, if you want to be exalted, there is the Slayer of Domiel in the Book of Exalted Deeds.
#4

risek

Sep 24, 2008 11:04:19
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Lomeliilda_%28DnD_Feat%29

This was an exalted feat I created for my elf DsM.
#5

the_shaman

Sep 24, 2008 17:10:11
The Black Flame Zealot is not FR-exclusive, true - it was reprinted in Complete Divine. I would suggest the Teflammar Shadowlord (Unapproachable East), but I guess there's no chance of that. That aside...

To be quite honest, the style you describe works just FINE with swordsage 20. You don't need to take PrCs to be an assassin, or devoted to a church, or good, or whatever. Swordsages are imo fine enough at the job... Though a swordsage/shadowlord would really kick 17 kinds of ass on any day but Sunday.

P.S.: why no psionics, btw? At least the XPH is readily available in the SRD.
#6

idontmuchcareforit

Sep 26, 2008 15:01:33
Don't take black flame zealot unless you have at least 5 good stats.
They specialize in melee combat and are feat intensive, so strength is fairly useful.
They are a rogue style class that wears light armor so dex is a must.
They melee, so con is a must
They use skills and have a death attack, so int is a must
They cast as a cleric, so wisdom is key
They have turning, and they rely on umd, so charisma is important.

and for all that, they're not even that powerful.
I'd rather take the 5-stat singing dervish.
#7

kurashu

Sep 26, 2008 18:30:30
Don't take black flame zealot unless you have at least 5 good stats.
They specialize in melee combat and are feat intensive, so strength is fairly useful.
They are a rogue style class that wears light armor so dex is a must.
They melee, so con is a must
They use skills and have a death attack, so int is a must
They cast as a cleric, so wisdom is key
They have turning, and they rely on umd, so charisma is important.

and for all that, they're not even that powerful.
I'd rather take the 5-stat singing dervish.

They specialize in melee like any good cleric does, but they specialize in using a light weapon so they can pick up weapon finesse.
Consitution is always a must for anyone.
They advance divine casting, not necessarily wisdom based.
They do not have turning nor do they rely on UMD.

As for the skills and death attack issue, they 4 skill points per level and death attack isn't that hard to jack up.

BUT consider this entry: Archivist 5/Rogue 1/Black Flame Zealot 4/Strife Leader 10. Intelligence based casting (CL 14, with 7th level spells). So skills and death attack (14 + INT) are both happy. Leaving you free to put a 10 in Wisdom. Plus you get (a measily) 5d6 sneak attack, cast eye of the hunter of whatever ranger spell that is and be happy. With archivists you get every divine spell, and we all know druids and clerics have the best buffs, so beef up with bite spells and divine power and whack stuff. The only thing about this build is it is feat intensive, but only because of Strifelader (4 feats total, including a EWP and a WF, which have to be on seperate weapons, but iron will pulls double duty.).

I have one word for you: Nyah.
#8

nickresonance

Sep 26, 2008 22:02:12
Sorry I haven't gotten back to anyone since creating this thread. Real life intruded on my fun. Let's see, where to start...

"Weapon of last resort" might have been too strong a wording. He's more like a weapon they would rather not use if they can avoid it, and one they don't admit to having to anyone outside the leadership of the church.

I never actually considered just going straight swordsage. It's certainly an option, though I do like the flavour of the Shadow Sun Ninja. That's why I originally thought of going that route. For Shou Disciple, the third level looks like it would be a good cutoff point.

I'd honestly prefer not to be a spellcasting class. I'm really not very good at playing one effectively, and as far as I know we'll have a few in the party anyway. I do appreciate the suggestions, though.

Here's one thought I had. Would it be worthwhile to try and convince my DM to let Kung Fu Genius from Dragon 319 affect the UA swordsage and the Shadow Sun Ninja? Because I was thinking about picking up a couple of levels of swashbuckler for free weapon finesse and Int to damage. Combine that with Shadow Blade to get Dex to damage with any Shadow Hand weapons (which includes short sword and unarmed strike, coincidentally :P) while in a SH stance, and I can neglect my Str to a degree without suffering serious consequences.

One dumb question. The UA swordsage doesn't get the ability to bypass damage protection with his unarmed strike as a monk does, yes? I see absolutely nothing to indicate that it would, I'm just double-checking.
#9

jaronk

Sep 26, 2008 22:15:53
The Unarmed Swordsage absolutely gets things to bypass DR... the Mountain Hammer strikes.

JaronK
#10

nickresonance

Sep 26, 2008 22:30:56
Not actually what I was referring to, but suggestion noted. :P

I was originally going to comment on my desire to focus on Shadow Hand and Setting Sun for Shadow Sun Ninja, but the Mountain Hammer line of strikes have very easy to meet prerequisites. Most interesting.

I was also thinking of grabbing a few Tiger Claw maneuvers, to try and take full advantage of it, SH and SS all sharing unarmed strike as a preferred weapon. Any suggestions for strike types out there?

Oh, and I forgot to reply to one poster's question. There's no psionics because the DM hates it, with a passion. Not sure why, but oh well.
#11

kurashu

Sep 26, 2008 23:31:25
If you're looking for the Intelligence-Dexterity to damage with Shadow Blade and Insightful Strike, look up Beshadowed Blade. It has Wisdom-Intelligence-Dexterity-Strength to damage.
#12

innabinder

Sep 26, 2008 23:59:44
Book of Exalted Deeds has the Slayer of Domiel PrC, which is an Assassin for the cause of Good. Shadow Sun Ninja seems like it'd be more the style you're after though, if you can work around the 10th level 'benefits' .
#13

nickresonance

Sep 27, 2008 0:48:09
Personally, I was only going to take Shadow Sun to about fifth level. That gives me the improved flurry with the -1 to every attack, which is not bad, and gives me a decent selection of abilities. Combine that with the light Martial Flurry from Shou Disciple and I'm doing pretty good.

If I do go Dex/Int with this, I'm also considering Mind over Body from FRCS. I read about it in Unapproachable East as a Shou Expatriate regional feat, uses your Int bonus for hit points instead of Con. Not too shabby, says I. Other feats of interest would include Adaptive Style (which, if I'm reading it correctly, would allow a swordsage to recover maneuvers in the middle of a fight - always convenient), Snap Kick (for an extra attack during a strike), and Superior Unarmed Strike (for more punching power).
#14

the_shaman

Sep 27, 2008 3:08:55
If I do go Dex/Int with this, I'm also considering Mind over Body from FRCS. I read about it in Unapproachable East as a Shou Expatriate regional feat, uses your Int bonus for hit points instead of Con. Not too shabby, says I.

At level one, perhaps. However, I believe it gives you int to HP only at level 1; at other levels you still use your Con modifier. It also gives you HP if you learn metamagic feats, and a +1 insight bonus to AC if you can cast arcane spells (the last is from the PGtF version).

Still not a great feat, imo.
#15

BadCatMan

Sep 28, 2008 0:10:59
They specialize in melee like any good cleric does, but they specialize in using a light weapon so they can pick up weapon finesse.

Actually, the Black Flame Zealot can use what weapon he likes. True, it requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the kukri, but kukris are martial weapons in 3.5. You can get that with a level of Fighter or whatever. Nothing in the class features actually requires a kukri. The PrC is reprinted from Unapproachable East (3e) without change in Complete Divine (3.5), which is why this little oddity arises.

Or there's the Avenger variant of the Assassin:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a