[3.5] Anyone have some Advise? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5] Anyone have some Advise?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zexionalmasy
Jan 20, 2009 9:50:06
I have been playing around with what my first character should be in 3.5E, I am rather new to D&D as a whole so I used what books I had at hand to make a build, if anyone has some advice for things to alter to make it more efficient that would be much appreciated.

Wizard 5/Alchemist Savant 2/Effigy Master 3/Renegade Master Maker 10

Feats:
Brew Potion
Craft Weapons and armor
Craft Wonder Items*
Craft Construct
Empower Spell
Improved Fortification*
Improve Homunculus
Sculpt Spell

He normally has 3-5 Effigies with him at any time, whole he created worker Homunculus to create magical items for the party as well as alchemical creations. Using the messenger with improved telekinetic link, he can order Effigies around from a fair distance perfectly, giving him time to cast spells from a far distance away.
#2
jameswilliamogle
Jan 20, 2009 10:03:08 Make sure that you ABSOLUTELY have enough time to do the crafting with your DM before going down this route... There's nothing worse than playing a crafter and having time to make a 2000 gp item at L12...

It looks like you're playing in Eberron. Do you know what other characters are playing? Can you give campaign details? Starting level, gold, area, kinds of enemies or central plot?
#3
zexionalmasy
Jan 20, 2009 10:14:15
It is not really a Eberron game, I wanted a Artificer but we made a deal and I could use these two PRCs instead of that class, he was saying that it was too easy to abuse and just didn't sit well with him. The same starts at exp for lv 5 character and gold for such a character, I think that is 9000?

The official game is in the works, main issue is getting enough people who have time to play, but normally it is a Good vs Evil, doomsday scene game where when the game starts, the Apocalypse started a month or so ago and you have to reverse it. I think I am the only wizard, but maybe a Ranger, a Paladin and a Druid will also be in the group.

I was worried about construction time as well but then I found the Homunculus can build while I am not, so my PC will be just fine and things will be made for him starting at lv 9. Different potions will be made in an hour rather then a full day thanks to the two levels of Alchemist Savant.
#4
jameswilliamogle
Jan 20, 2009 10:32:22 The other thing about those PrCs is that you lose caster levels and spellcasting levels. If you're the only arcane PrC, I don't think its wise to take these. I recommend instead a very basic core build (this is doubly true since you don't have a lot of experience in DnD, and are playing a Wizard which can be a real bear as far as the accounting of abilities can go):

Wizard 10 / Loremaster 7 / Archmage 3

Here's some commentary on the individual feats you've picked:
Brew Potion (Horrible, horrible feat... only up to 3rd level spells... pick up Craft Wands instead)

Craft Weapons and armor (You might convince any of the other characters to take this instead - according to the rules, anybody w/ CL 5 can take this, and it benefits you the least directly, so you don't want to blow XP on it if you can help it)

Craft Wonder Items* (Although it can make a ton of stuff, make sure you keep an eye out for the CL necessary to build the cooler items; its usually quite high, so there isn't an immediate need to take it at 3rd level)

Craft Construct (For your character's flavor I suppose its OK, but without the craft reserve of an Artificer I'd say that it wasn't worth it)

Empower Spell (A good metamagic to have in general)

Improved Fortification* (Overkill)

Improve Homunculus (Overkill)

Sculpt Spell (Emulate using one of the Archmage's abilities instead, or buy it in a metamagic rod from Complete Arcane, as its very cheap)

So, there you go... I do like the flavor of the character you're going for, but I don't think you need to focus as much on that flavor in class mechanics to still get the same feeling.

I'm pro-Effigy Master, though, if you can pull it off (your DM will probably strangle you if you try to pull some of the shenanigans that class is capable of though, so be careful).
#5
pithica
Jan 20, 2009 10:32:39 Consider taking Mercantile Background as well as any (or all) of the craft cost reduction feats, as the process isn't really profitable otherwise.

It can save you lots of money to craft your own goods, yes, but you still end up with a time cost as you have to wait for each to be done (even if the Wright is doing all the work). Reducing the costs is top priority, and increasing the profitability means that you don't have to upgrade, you can instead make whole new items and sell the old for profits when done.

Be sure to discuss with your DM how he or she handles XP as well. By the book, you should almost always be earning more as you'll be behind the rest of the part in level for most of your career. However, I've known DM's to do all kinds of wonky things with XP (including me), so it's good to know if you'll ever be able to catch up, or not, before you decide if it's worth it.
#6
zexionalmasy
Jan 20, 2009 10:58:39
I forgot one more Feat, Practiced Spell caster to repair those three missing caster levels. The Race is a Heartstrong Halfling i think it is called and they get a bonus feat at chargen.

I got brew potion for Alchemist Savant, I thought it was rather cool. Can you tell me what is wrong with it? As for the other two crafting item Feats, the group was going to be paying me for their items, as magical items are rare, so they have one reliable source.

Improved Fortification was a bonus from having Renegade Master Maker 10 for free, I couldn't find a better Warforged feat then it.

Improved homunculus was most there from seeming nice but really a filler as I have yet to see something to replace it.

I am kinda sick of those multi template effigies, as they are not even legal, really how can you have more then a base and a half, let alone twenty or so half templates?? I am making effigies with no templates for the most part but using tactics for which ones to use or not.

Can you tell me what is that great about lore master or archmage? I don't have my books on me at this time so explaining them would be a great help. I kinda fell pushed away from them as it seems like a totally new character then the one I had been working on at first.

I still have a worry about the exp part, I thought I could compensate this with using AoE spells onto the targets so I get some exp from every target rather then just full exp from a few targets. As for money, the rest of the group I hope, I can talk them into funneling cash into these projects, in exchange they get to have potion bottles and magical gear that they want without relying on a hope a enemy will have the one thing they want/need.
#7
jameswilliamogle
Jan 20, 2009 11:13:29 Unless your DM does things differently, you'll not get more XP for AoE spells. You get XP from "winning" encounters, but its doled out based on the number of players and the challenge of the encounter. Likewise, the DM should allow reasonable access to magic equipment, as thats standard DnD (ie, limit value based on town size, and that's it). If these are specificly different house-rules, please comment.

You don't just lose Caster Level (CL), but you also lose Spellcasting. Practiced Spellcaster won't give you access to a new level of spell. So although the spells you have will be as powerful as a spellcaster of your level, you won't get access to new levels of spells as rapidly.

Loremaster gives you lots of options, and Use Magic Device, which is useful for using Wands and such from other class's spelllists. They also get a feat, too. Archmage gives you the ability to permanently sac one spell slot to gain a special ability. Although they aren't all worth it, there's a few that are (Master of Shaping, Master of Elements).

Replace Improved Homonculous with anything... Extend Spell to actually cast buffs on your Homonculi and yourself... Quicken Spell to do something else...

If you want a "pets" build, there's other directions to go as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zexionalmasy Jan 20, 2009 9:50:06	I have been playing around with what my first character should be in 3.5E, I am rather new to D&D as a whole so I used what books I had at hand to make a build, if anyone has some advice for things to alter to make it more efficient that would be much appreciated. Wizard 5/Alchemist Savant 2/Effigy Master 3/Renegade Master Maker 10 Feats: Brew Potion Craft Weapons and armor Craft Wonder Items* Craft Construct Empower Spell Improved Fortification* Improve Homunculus Sculpt Spell He normally has 3-5 Effigies with him at any time, whole he created worker Homunculus to create magical items for the party as well as alchemical creations. Using the messenger with improved telekinetic link, he can order Effigies around from a fair distance perfectly, giving him time to cast spells from a far distance away.
#2 jameswilliamogle Jan 20, 2009 10:03:08	Make sure that you ABSOLUTELY have enough time to do the crafting with your DM before going down this route... There's nothing worse than playing a crafter and having time to make a 2000 gp item at L12... It looks like you're playing in Eberron. Do you know what other characters are playing? Can you give campaign details? Starting level, gold, area, kinds of enemies or central plot?
#3 zexionalmasy Jan 20, 2009 10:14:15	It is not really a Eberron game, I wanted a Artificer but we made a deal and I could use these two PRCs instead of that class, he was saying that it was too easy to abuse and just didn't sit well with him. The same starts at exp for lv 5 character and gold for such a character, I think that is 9000? The official game is in the works, main issue is getting enough people who have time to play, but normally it is a Good vs Evil, doomsday scene game where when the game starts, the Apocalypse started a month or so ago and you have to reverse it. I think I am the only wizard, but maybe a Ranger, a Paladin and a Druid will also be in the group. I was worried about construction time as well but then I found the Homunculus can build while I am not, so my PC will be just fine and things will be made for him starting at lv 9. Different potions will be made in an hour rather then a full day thanks to the two levels of Alchemist Savant.
#4 jameswilliamogle Jan 20, 2009 10:32:22	The other thing about those PrCs is that you lose caster levels and spellcasting levels. If you're the only arcane PrC, I don't think its wise to take these. I recommend instead a very basic core build (this is doubly true since you don't have a lot of experience in DnD, and are playing a Wizard which can be a real bear as far as the accounting of abilities can go): Wizard 10 / Loremaster 7 / Archmage 3 Here's some commentary on the individual feats you've picked: Brew Potion (Horrible, horrible feat... only up to 3rd level spells... pick up Craft Wands instead) Craft Weapons and armor (You might convince any of the other characters to take this instead - according to the rules, anybody w/ CL 5 can take this, and it benefits you the least directly, so you don't want to blow XP on it if you can help it) Craft Wonder Items* (Although it can make a ton of stuff, make sure you keep an eye out for the CL necessary to build the cooler items; its usually quite high, so there isn't an immediate need to take it at 3rd level) Craft Construct (For your character's flavor I suppose its OK, but without the craft reserve of an Artificer I'd say that it wasn't worth it) Empower Spell (A good metamagic to have in general) Improved Fortification* (Overkill) Improve Homunculus (Overkill) Sculpt Spell (Emulate using one of the Archmage's abilities instead, or buy it in a metamagic rod from Complete Arcane, as its very cheap) So, there you go... I do like the flavor of the character you're going for, but I don't think you need to focus as much on that flavor in class mechanics to still get the same feeling. I'm pro-Effigy Master, though, if you can pull it off (your DM will probably strangle you if you try to pull some of the shenanigans that class is capable of though, so be careful).
#5 pithica Jan 20, 2009 10:32:39	Consider taking Mercantile Background as well as any (or all) of the craft cost reduction feats, as the process isn't really profitable otherwise. It can save you lots of money to craft your own goods, yes, but you still end up with a time cost as you have to wait for each to be done (even if the Wright is doing all the work). Reducing the costs is top priority, and increasing the profitability means that you don't have to upgrade, you can instead make whole new items and sell the old for profits when done. Be sure to discuss with your DM how he or she handles XP as well. By the book, you should almost always be earning more as you'll be behind the rest of the part in level for most of your career. However, I've known DM's to do all kinds of wonky things with XP (including me), so it's good to know if you'll ever be able to catch up, or not, before you decide if it's worth it.
#6 zexionalmasy Jan 20, 2009 10:58:39	I forgot one more Feat, Practiced Spell caster to repair those three missing caster levels. The Race is a Heartstrong Halfling i think it is called and they get a bonus feat at chargen. I got brew potion for Alchemist Savant, I thought it was rather cool. Can you tell me what is wrong with it? As for the other two crafting item Feats, the group was going to be paying me for their items, as magical items are rare, so they have one reliable source. Improved Fortification was a bonus from having Renegade Master Maker 10 for free, I couldn't find a better Warforged feat then it. Improved homunculus was most there from seeming nice but really a filler as I have yet to see something to replace it. I am kinda sick of those multi template effigies, as they are not even legal, really how can you have more then a base and a half, let alone twenty or so half templates?? I am making effigies with no templates for the most part but using tactics for which ones to use or not. Can you tell me what is that great about lore master or archmage? I don't have my books on me at this time so explaining them would be a great help. I kinda fell pushed away from them as it seems like a totally new character then the one I had been working on at first. I still have a worry about the exp part, I thought I could compensate this with using AoE spells onto the targets so I get some exp from every target rather then just full exp from a few targets. As for money, the rest of the group I hope, I can talk them into funneling cash into these projects, in exchange they get to have potion bottles and magical gear that they want without relying on a hope a enemy will have the one thing they want/need.
#7 jameswilliamogle Jan 20, 2009 11:13:29	Unless your DM does things differently, you'll not get more XP for AoE spells. You get XP from "winning" encounters, but its doled out based on the number of players and the challenge of the encounter. Likewise, the DM should allow reasonable access to magic equipment, as thats standard DnD (ie, limit value based on town size, and that's it). If these are specificly different house-rules, please comment. You don't just lose Caster Level (CL), but you also lose Spellcasting. Practiced Spellcaster won't give you access to a new level of spell. So although the spells you have will be as powerful as a spellcaster of your level, you won't get access to new levels of spells as rapidly. Loremaster gives you lots of options, and Use Magic Device, which is useful for using Wands and such from other class's spelllists. They also get a feat, too. Archmage gives you the ability to permanently sac one spell slot to gain a special ability. Although they aren't all worth it, there's a few that are (Master of Shaping, Master of Elements). Replace Improved Homonculous with anything... Extend Spell to actually cast buffs on your Homonculi and yourself... Quicken Spell to do something else... If you want a "pets" build, there's other directions to go as well.