[3.5] Aoo / movement - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5] Aoo / movement

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xkullx
May 28, 2009 13:18:33 with the dervish doing the dervish dance with these feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring attack

Do the opponents you attack while moving get attacks of opportunity on you ?

And on the spring attack feat it says: "you have to move 5 feet both before and after your attack".

Does that mean you have to attack, move 5th ( not attack ), then move another 5 feet and attack again ?

or, attack per every 5 feet providing you moved 5 feet before the first attack ?
#2
jgumbyrx
May 28, 2009 13:31:10
with the dervish doing the dervish dance with these feats:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring attack

Do the opponents you attack while moving get attacks of opportunity on you ?

And on the spring attack feat it says: "you have to move 5 feet both before and after your attack".

Does that mean you have to attack, move 5th ( not attack ), then move another 5 feet and attack again ?

or, attack per every 5 feet providing you moved 5 feet before the first attack ?

"dervish dance" specifically states that you do provoke AoO's. that's what tumble is for (avoiding AoO, that is).

spring attack is only a prereq. with dervish dance, you can attack, move 5', attack again, move 5', etc. (up to your full attack). the way that it reads, you just have to move between each attack (and i guess you could move more than 5' between if you wanted). i don't think that you have to move before your first attack (and i guess you could move after your last attack, if you wanted).
#3
tordak
May 28, 2009 13:35:48 You're using the attack action, you're moving before and after, you're moving at least 5ft before and after, so you qualify for the spring attack benefit when you're using your dervish dance; the defender don't get an AoOs. You should, from that wording, get that benefit for every attack, and you only have to move 5ft between attacks.

The problem, I see, is who's the defender; the 5ft you move between 2 attacks qualify as both the 5 ft after the previous attack and the 5ft before the next. It would seem boht targets are defenders if there are 2 targets. If you're circling around 1 target he remains the defender. In any way there would be up to 2 defenders at a time, who would not get there AoOs against you. Other opponents whose threat range you cross and are not attacked by you would get their AoOs as usual. I think the dervish abilities were meant to be used that way.
#4
jgumbyrx
May 28, 2009 14:18:52
You're using the attack action, you're moving before and after, you're moving at least 5ft before and after, so you qualify for the spring attack benefit when you're using your dervish dance; the defender don't get an AoOs. You should, from that wording, get that benefit for every attack, and you only have to move 5ft between attacks.

The problem, I see, is who's the defender; the 5ft you move between 2 attacks qualify as both the 5 ft after the previous attack and the 5ft before the next. It would seem boht targets are defenders if there are 2 targets. If you're circling around 1 target he remains the defender. In any way there would be up to 2 defenders at a time, who would not get there AoOs against you. Other opponents whose threat range you cross and are not attacked by you would get their AoOs as usual. I think the dervish abilities were meant to be used that way.

Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. The "dervish dance" ability specifically states the contrary:
The dervish is subject to attacks of opportunity while dancing, but may tumble normally as part of her move.

There are no exceptions listed. If dervish dance were a use of spring attack, it would have been worded much differently. You're not using spring attack, per se; rather, dervish dance is based on a similar concept of moving while attacking, but they are not the same.

Though, you are correct on the move-attack sequence.
#5
Jarveiyan
May 28, 2009 14:27:20 Guys Spring Attack gives you one attack and you can move before and after the attack as long as the overall movement isn't more than your movement rate. Dervish Dance allows you to move and full attack as long as you move at least 5 ft between attacks allowing for AoO's if you move through threatened zones, but you can tumble as normal. See the difference? And as an aside you can go tempest to get two-weapon spring attack or take Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz from phb 2 witch gives you 1-2 more attacks while spring attacking a target.
#6
jgumbyrx
May 28, 2009 15:55:52
Guys Spring Attack gives you one attack and you can move before and after the attack as long as the overall movement isn't more than your movement rate. Dervish Dance allows you to move and full attack as long as you move at least 5 ft between attacks allowing for AoO's if you move through threatened zones, but you can tumble as normal. See the difference? And as an aside you can go tempest to get two-weapon spring attack or take Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz from phb 2 witch gives you 1-2 more attacks while spring attacking a target.

um, isn't that what i said?
#7
tordak
May 28, 2009 15:58:02
Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. The "dervish dance" ability specifically states the contrary:There are no exceptions listed. If dervish dance were a use of spring attack, it would have been worded much differently. You're not using spring attack, per se; rather, dervish dance is based on a similar concept of moving while attacking, but they are not the same.

Though, you are correct on the move-attack sequence.

The way I put it you're still subject to AoO, just not AoO from the defender(s) because of spring attack. It's true however that they should have mentioned if spring attack applies, and since they didn't it probably doesn't, my bad.
#8
jgumbyrx
May 28, 2009 16:20:55
The way I put it you're still subject to AoO, just not AoO from the defender(s) because of spring attack. It's true however that they should have mentioned if spring attack applies, and since they didn't it probably doesn't, my bad.

#9
xkullx
May 28, 2009 18:09:40 ok, thanks for the answers.

I just though the wordings was a bit weird.

Though by not doing the dervish dance and only spring attacking as per the feat the story is a bit different.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xkullx May 28, 2009 13:18:33	with the dervish doing the dervish dance with these feats: Dodge Mobility Spring attack Do the opponents you attack while moving get attacks of opportunity on you ? And on the spring attack feat it says: "you have to move 5 feet both before and after your attack". Does that mean you have to attack, move 5th ( not attack ), then move another 5 feet and attack again ? or, attack per every 5 feet providing you moved 5 feet before the first attack ?
#2 jgumbyrx May 28, 2009 13:31:10	with the dervish doing the dervish dance with these feats: Dodge Mobility Spring attack Do the opponents you attack while moving get attacks of opportunity on you ? And on the spring attack feat it says: "you have to move 5 feet both before and after your attack". Does that mean you have to attack, move 5th ( not attack ), then move another 5 feet and attack again ? or, attack per every 5 feet providing you moved 5 feet before the first attack ? "dervish dance" specifically states that you do provoke AoO's. that's what tumble is for (avoiding AoO, that is). spring attack is only a prereq. with dervish dance, you can attack, move 5', attack again, move 5', etc. (up to your full attack). the way that it reads, you just have to move between each attack (and i guess you could move more than 5' between if you wanted). i don't think that you have to move before your first attack (and i guess you could move after your last attack, if you wanted).
#3 tordak May 28, 2009 13:35:48	You're using the attack action, you're moving before and after, you're moving at least 5ft before and after, so you qualify for the spring attack benefit when you're using your dervish dance; the defender don't get an AoOs. You should, from that wording, get that benefit for every attack, and you only have to move 5ft between attacks. The problem, I see, is who's the defender; the 5ft you move between 2 attacks qualify as both the 5 ft after the previous attack and the 5ft before the next. It would seem boht targets are defenders if there are 2 targets. If you're circling around 1 target he remains the defender. In any way there would be up to 2 defenders at a time, who would not get there AoOs against you. Other opponents whose threat range you cross and are not attacked by you would get their AoOs as usual. I think the dervish abilities were meant to be used that way.
#4 jgumbyrx May 28, 2009 14:18:52	You're using the attack action, you're moving before and after, you're moving at least 5ft before and after, so you qualify for the spring attack benefit when you're using your dervish dance; the defender don't get an AoOs. You should, from that wording, get that benefit for every attack, and you only have to move 5ft between attacks. The problem, I see, is who's the defender; the 5ft you move between 2 attacks qualify as both the 5 ft after the previous attack and the 5ft before the next. It would seem boht targets are defenders if there are 2 targets. If you're circling around 1 target he remains the defender. In any way there would be up to 2 defenders at a time, who would not get there AoOs against you. Other opponents whose threat range you cross and are not attacked by you would get their AoOs as usual. I think the dervish abilities were meant to be used that way. Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. The "dervish dance" ability specifically states the contrary: The dervish is subject to attacks of opportunity while dancing, but may tumble normally as part of her move. There are no exceptions listed. If dervish dance were a use of spring attack, it would have been worded much differently. You're not using spring attack, per se; rather, dervish dance is based on a similar concept of moving while attacking, but they are not the same. Though, you are correct on the move-attack sequence.
#5 Jarveiyan May 28, 2009 14:27:20	Guys Spring Attack gives you one attack and you can move before and after the attack as long as the overall movement isn't more than your movement rate. Dervish Dance allows you to move and full attack as long as you move at least 5 ft between attacks allowing for AoO's if you move through threatened zones, but you can tumble as normal. See the difference? And as an aside you can go tempest to get two-weapon spring attack or take Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz from phb 2 witch gives you 1-2 more attacks while spring attacking a target.
#6 jgumbyrx May 28, 2009 15:55:52	Guys Spring Attack gives you one attack and you can move before and after the attack as long as the overall movement isn't more than your movement rate. Dervish Dance allows you to move and full attack as long as you move at least 5 ft between attacks allowing for AoO's if you move through threatened zones, but you can tumble as normal. See the difference? And as an aside you can go tempest to get two-weapon spring attack or take Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz from phb 2 witch gives you 1-2 more attacks while spring attacking a target. um, isn't that what i said?
#7 tordak May 28, 2009 15:58:02	Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. The "dervish dance" ability specifically states the contrary:There are no exceptions listed. If dervish dance were a use of spring attack, it would have been worded much differently. You're not using spring attack, per se; rather, dervish dance is based on a similar concept of moving while attacking, but they are not the same. Though, you are correct on the move-attack sequence. The way I put it you're still subject to AoO, just not AoO from the defender(s) because of spring attack. It's true however that they should have mentioned if spring attack applies, and since they didn't it probably doesn't, my bad.
#8 jgumbyrx May 28, 2009 16:20:55	The way I put it you're still subject to AoO, just not AoO from the defender(s) because of spring attack. It's true however that they should have mentioned if spring attack applies, and since they didn't it probably doesn't, my bad.
#9 xkullx May 28, 2009 18:09:40	ok, thanks for the answers. I just though the wordings was a bit weird. Though by not doing the dervish dance and only spring attacking as per the feat the story is a bit different.