Possible stats (assuming 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16)
12+4 DEX
16 CON or STR
14 STR or CON
13 INT or WIS
10+2 CHA
11 WIS or INT
-1 level
40 ft/round vs. 30
+2 Listen & Move Silently
Low-light vision
From a role-playing, psychological perspective, I think it would be very fun to try, but mechanically, is this one of those combinations that sounds good on paper but is actually hard for most (especially newb) players to do well? I would be willing to play a less-than-optimized character if I think that the story would be cool, but I also don't want to go overboard on one of my first tries.
Um... What are you asking, exactly? Do you want suggestions for a build? Are you just asking if catfolk make good rogues? Are you asking for role-playing ideas?
Ding.
Its not unplayable, but I wouldn't recomend it for a new player. A quick rule of thumb for you is that anything with a level adjustment isn't worth it. There are a few exceptions, but you will find those as you play a few more times and read some books.
Catfolk are garbage. Sure, the stats look nice on paper, but the loss of level and no real abilities mean they suck. Whisper Gnome, Strongheart Halfling, Humans, and so on, you know, the generally good races, are all vastly superior.
He doesn't. If he did he wouldn't be asking. So, ellaborate for him.
- Human
- Goblin
- Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone)
- Kenku (MM3)
- Hadozee (Stormwrack)
- Strongheart Halfling (what book again?)
The jury's out on Marrulurk from Sandstorm. 3 racial hit dice and +1 LA? Yuck. Those racial hit die are monstrous humanoid and it comes with +2d6 racial sneak attack? Hmm.
Other bonus feat races - azurin, silverbrow human, etc - also work but are usually only used when you need something specific (essentia or the dragonblood subtype). Normally human will give you everything else.
And if you're trapped in core, regular halfling and elf make honorable mention status. They're not *bad*, but they're also not top choices in most cases and they may only work in particular builds.
Note that all of these races have 0 level adjustment and tend to have Dexterity bonuses or stealth/mobility options, or bonus feats (useful to everyone). That's what to look for at first glance. The LA on catfolk is a deal killer.
Let's take two Dex-focused rogues, one human and one catfolk. We'll give them the same starting stats (just to make things easier - but feel free to configure either stat as you like). For 28-point buy, assuming that Dex is the primary stat and Con and Int are secondary, we can start with Str 10/Dex 16/Con 14/Int 14/Wis 10/Cha 10 as a base.
Going through each ECL, comparing them side by side, we get...
ECL 1-
Human:
8 HP, 44 skill points (4 ranks max in trained skills)
Two-Weapon Fighting, Craven
AB +0 (-2/-2) melee, or +3 (+1/+1 with thrown weapons) ranged
+1d6+1 sneak attack, trapfinding
Catfolk:
Doesn't exist yet, because a level 1 catfolk is ECL 2.
Comparison: The human exists, the catfolk doesn't.
ECL 2-
Human:
13 HP, 55 skill points (5 ranks max in trained skills - hurray for synergy bonuses!)
Two-Weapon Fighting, Craven
AB +1 (-1/-1) melee, or +4 (+2/+2 with thrown weapons) ranged
+1d6+2 sneak attack, trapfinding, evasion
Sample skill loadout: Hide +8, move silently +8, search +7, disable device +7, spot +5, listen +5, tumble +10, balance +10, jump +7, use magic device +5 (+7 with scrolls), decipher script +7
Catfolk:
8 HP, 40 skill points (4 ranks max in trained skills)
Two-Weapon Fighting
AB +0 (-2/-2) melee, or +5 (+3/+3 with thrown weapons) ranged
+1d6 sneak attack, trapfinding
Sample skill loadout: Hide +9, move silently +11, search +6, disable device +6, spot +4, listen +6, tumble +9, balance +9, jump +13, use magic device +5
Comparison: The catfolk has a better move speed, AC, and Hide/Move Silently. It has only 60% of the HP, though, and worse projected damage (lower attack bonus on melee, where SA is far easier to trigger, and no spare feat for Craven). More skills on the human and higher level means synergy bonuses, and the human's superior skill loadout lets him pick up Decipher Script for a quick +2 to UMD on scrolls. Also, the human is sporting evasion as a defensive boost. At ECL 2 it's probably a wash, but I'd give the nod to the human, mainly because 13 HP versus 8 HP is a surprisingly big difference at these levels.
ECL 3-
Human:
19 HP, 66 skill points (6 ranks max in trained skills)
Two-Weapon Fighting, Craven, Weapon Finesse
AB +5 (+3/+3) melee or ranged
+2d6+3 sneak attack, trapfinding, evasion, penetrating strike
Sample skill loadout: Hide +9, move silently +9, search +8, disable device +8, spot +6, listen +6, tumble +11, balance +10, jump +7, use magic device +6 (+8 with scrolls), decipher script +7, forgery +3, sleight of hand +4, bluff +1
Catfolk:
13 HP, 50 skill points (5 ranks max in trained skills)
Two-Weapon Fighting
AB +1 (-1/-1) melee, or +6 (+4/+4 with thrown weapons) ranged
+1d6 sneak attack, trapfinding, evasion
Sample skill loadout: Hide +10, move silently +12, search +7, disable device +7, spot +5, listen +7, tumble +12, balance +12, jump +16, use magic device +6
Comparison: By ECL 3, we start to see a big difference. The human has now picked up Weapon Finesse, meaning a much better attack routine, as well as an additional die of SA - with Craven he's now doing an average of 6.5 additional points of damage per attack. He's also got penetrating strike for SA-immune enemies. The skills also start to skew in the human's favor despite the catfolk's huge Dex boost - even though the catfolk has now picked up synergy bonuses, the extra skill points means that the human has more of them, and can begin branching out into trained-only skills like forgery and sleight of hand.
ECL 4-
Human:
24 HP, 77 skill points (7 ranks max in trained skills)
Two-Weapon Fighting, Craven, Weapon Finesse
AB +6 (+4/+4) melee or ranged
+2d6+4 sneak attack, trapfinding, evasion, penetrating strike, uncanny dodge/disruptive attack
Sample skill loadout: Hide +10, move silently +11, search +9, disable device +9, spot +7, listen +7, tumble +12, balance +10, jump +7, use magic device +7 (+9 with scrolls), decipher script +7, forgery +3, sleight of hand +6, bluff +2
Catfolk:
19 HP, 60 skill points (6 ranks max in trained skills)
Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
AB +7 (+5/+5) melee or ranged
+2d6 sneak attack, trapfinding, evasion, penetrating strike
Sample skill loadout: Hide +11, move silently +13, search +8, disable device +8, spot +6, listen +8, tumble +13, balance +12, jump +16, use magic device +7, forgery +3, sleight of hand +6
Comparison: They start to even out a little bit now that the catfolk has picked up Weapon Finesse, meaning that big Dex bonus can finally come in as an advantage in melee, but the damage gap that Craven creates is growing bigger and bigger (it now deals more damage on average than an extra die of SA). Still, it's not a huge advantage to the human, mainly because at this level the effective +3 to AC that the catfolk gets is starting to be worth more than the 5-6 extra hit points that the human has.
OK, I'm getting a little bored writing each of these snapshots up. That being said, ECL 4 is about as good as it gets for the catfolk. From here on out, the human begins to pull away. The skill and feat boost matters more and more as the levels progress (that one bonus skill point translates to an additional 23 skill points across the rogue's career, which ends up making a much bigger difference at the mid to high levels than +2 to your Dex-based skills). The extra feat means that the human is always going to have more tactical options than the catfolk, even with Catfolk Pounce taken into consideration. And once PrC's come into play, the gap will grow even larger. Write up the proceeding levels for yourself if you want to see what I mean.
Changeling is missing from that list, especially for social rogues over acrobats.
Ahh, good catch. I should have added that one.
Other bonus feat races - azurin, silverbrow human, etc - also work but are usually only used when you need something specific (essentia or the dragonblood subtype).
There's also Kalashtar and Xeph if you want to play a psionic rogue.
Normally human will give you everything else. And if you're trapped in core, regular halfling and elf make honorable mention status. They're not *bad*, but they're also not top choices in most cases and they may only work in particular builds.
I still say Goblin owns core rogue, but yeah halflings and elves can play that game with the right PrCs.
Note that all of these races have 0 level adjustment and tend to have Dexterity bonuses or stealth/mobility options, or bonus feats (useful to everyone). That's what to look for at first glance. The LA on catfolk is a deal killer.
But Marrulurk! Agh, I'm so tormented....
EDIT: just remembered that most races don't start with a feat at level one, and the site I read was assuming human PCs. Thanks again.
Or, maybe better yet, a swashbuckler 11/rogue 1//invisible blade 5 with DO? That would give +12d6 SA.
If my mahs aren't wrong:
swah 11+rogue 1 with Daring outlaw => 6d6
Invisible Blade => 3d6
Marrulurk => 2d6
Total 11D6
Is that race so good you would let go of 3 wholes levels?
... And Monstrous Humanoid HD are some of the best monster HD in the game.
No, they really aren't. Outsider and Dragon are vastly superior, and even Magical Beast from simple numbers is better. It's about on par with Fey, really.
Yes. Monsterous Humanoid HD are SOME of the best racial HD. You aren't going to get an arguement about Dragon and Outsider HD being better because both of them are actually pretty darn good. Monstrous Humanoid HD are one of the types I don't consider too crippling (unless you're a spellcaster in which case ANY racial HD is crippling) and while they may be minorly less the Magical Beast HD (d8s instead of d10) I can't think of many Magical Beasts that are playable as PCs.
If you're going for a skill Monkey then Fey HD with their 6 skill points are better then the Monstrous Humanoid and its 2 skill points but otherwise Fey has a smaller HD (d6 vs d8) and a MUCH lower BAB at +1/2 instead of +1 for each HD. When it comes to skill points Outsider levels are king with 8 with Dragons and Fey coming in with 6 (and Dragons COMPLETELY dominate everything else), Undead strangly coming in with 4 (granted many of them are mindless), and basically everything else only getting 2 skill points.