3.5 Gestalt: arcane Ranger? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 Gestalt: arcane Ranger?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Beldak_Serpenthelm
Jan 11, 2013 18:54:52 Without gestalt rules, I probably wouldn't want to split levels in these particular combinations, but for a gestalt character, how effectively could a Ranger be combined with a wizard/sorcerer?

It seems like, if it were going to work, I would want to combine Sorcerer (since Rangers depend on CHA anyway and adding INT to the mix doesn't seem like a good use of ability scores) with archery-track Ranger (which is safer for a spellcasters' minimal armor allowances than close-quarters melee), but would it actually work, or just suck less than the other 3 combinations (melee-wizard, melee-sorcerer, archery-wizard)?

Possible beginning stats: 16 DEX, 14 CHA, 13 CON, 12 WIS, 10 STR, 8 INT
#2
StevenO
Jan 11, 2013 19:14:21 What do Rangers do with CHA? Sure it contributes to their Wild Empathy ability but it doesn't do anything for spellcasting or anything else for that matter. To me INT is a MUCH better choice; you need to remember that a ranger is also a "skilled" character who gets 6 skill points each level. Also remember that Wizard spellcasting is normally considered a more powerful then Sorcerer spellcasting in large part because they gain a new spell level of spells one class level faster. Although they are normally a touch less powerful as spellcasters you may also want to consider a spellcasting class that allows casting in light armor.

Now when it comes to building your character I have no idea what to tell you. There are plenty of ways to build a normal "gish" character and when you throw gestalt into the mix the possibilities become endless. This means YOU need to say what YOU want for your character.

#3
draco1119
Jan 11, 2013 21:57:37 Hmmm... Why am I thinking an Elf wizard 20//ranger 10/arcane archer 10 would be fun to try here?
#4
StevenO
Jan 11, 2013 23:12:44
Hmmm... Why am I thinking an Elf wizard 20//ranger 10/arcane archer 10 would be fun to try here?

Because an Elf Wizard 15/AbjurantChampion//Ranger10/AA10 would be more interesting. Of course any number of things could be put in to replace a number of the Wizard levels provide they don't give up spellcasting. Gestalt characters are just that sick when you start looking at what they can do especially if compared to non-spellcasting "normal" characters.
#5
Tempest_Stormwind
Jan 14, 2013 13:37:17
Hmmm... Why am I thinking an Elf wizard 20//ranger 10/arcane archer 10 would be fun to try here?

Because an Elf Wizard 15/AbjurantChampion//Ranger10/AA10 would be more interesting. Of course any number of things could be put in to replace a number of the Wizard levels provide they don't give up spellcasting. Gestalt characters are just that sick when you start looking at what they can do especially if compared to non-spellcasting "normal" characters.

With one minor point: Gestalt doesn't allow prestige//prestige at any level. (It also doesn't allow hybrid classes, but the AA isn't really a hybrid. The AbjChamp is more of one, but even then, it isn't "really" (since it only advances one class in the Special column, despite performing well as a warrior from everything else).

This doesn't impact the build you presented (1-5 Wizard//Ranger, 6-10 AbjChamp//Ranger, 11-20 Wizard/AA), but it does kind of prevent you from swapping out any base class for any prestige class unless you can squeeze it in during levels 1-5 (i.e. Master Specialist naturally, or a couple cheap tricks for early entry somewhere).
#6
StevenO
Jan 14, 2013 14:28:32
With one minor point: Gestalt doesn't allow prestige//prestige at any level. (It also doesn't allow hybrid classes, but the AA isn't really a hybrid. The AbjChamp is more of one, but even then, it isn't "really" (since it only advances one class in the Special column, despite performing well as a warrior from everything else).

This doesn't impact the build you presented (1-5 Wizard//Ranger, 6-10 AbjChamp//Ranger, 11-20 Wizard/AA), but it does kind of prevent you from swapping out any base class for any prestige class unless you can squeeze it in during levels 1-5 (i.e. Master Specialist naturally, or a couple cheap tricks for early entry somewhere).

I recognized that you aren't supposed to do PrC//PrC with gestalt but as you confirmed my "build" doesn't do that. It requires a feat and take away a bonus feat from wizard to get in trading in five levels of Wizard for Abjurant Champion is a always a "win" in my book. I know that most of the time we think of AbC as a 'hybred' class but if you're already getting the full BAB from Ranger all it's offering is spellcasting and its special abilities. It may shut the character out of other PrCs it could pair with a base class but if we're all honest here gestalt characters can already be terribly powerful compared to normals.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Beldak_Serpenthelm Jan 11, 2013 18:54:52	Without gestalt rules, I probably wouldn't want to split levels in these particular combinations, but for a gestalt character, how effectively could a Ranger be combined with a wizard/sorcerer? It seems like, if it were going to work, I would want to combine Sorcerer (since Rangers depend on CHA anyway and adding INT to the mix doesn't seem like a good use of ability scores) with archery-track Ranger (which is safer for a spellcasters' minimal armor allowances than close-quarters melee), but would it actually work, or just suck less than the other 3 combinations (melee-wizard, melee-sorcerer, archery-wizard)? Possible beginning stats: 16 DEX, 14 CHA, 13 CON, 12 WIS, 10 STR, 8 INT
#2 StevenO Jan 11, 2013 19:14:21	What do Rangers do with CHA? Sure it contributes to their Wild Empathy ability but it doesn't do anything for spellcasting or anything else for that matter. To me INT is a MUCH better choice; you need to remember that a ranger is also a "skilled" character who gets 6 skill points each level. Also remember that Wizard spellcasting is normally considered a more powerful then Sorcerer spellcasting in large part because they gain a new spell level of spells one class level faster. Although they are normally a touch less powerful as spellcasters you may also want to consider a spellcasting class that allows casting in light armor. Now when it comes to building your character I have no idea what to tell you. There are plenty of ways to build a normal "gish" character and when you throw gestalt into the mix the possibilities become endless. This means YOU need to say what YOU want for your character.
#3 draco1119 Jan 11, 2013 21:57:37	Hmmm... Why am I thinking an Elf wizard 20//ranger 10/arcane archer 10 would be fun to try here?
#4 StevenO Jan 11, 2013 23:12:44	Hmmm... Why am I thinking an Elf wizard 20//ranger 10/arcane archer 10 would be fun to try here? Because an Elf Wizard 15/AbjurantChampion//Ranger10/AA10 would be more interesting. Of course any number of things could be put in to replace a number of the Wizard levels provide they don't give up spellcasting. Gestalt characters are just that sick when you start looking at what they can do especially if compared to non-spellcasting "normal" characters.
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 14, 2013 13:37:17	Hmmm... Why am I thinking an Elf wizard 20//ranger 10/arcane archer 10 would be fun to try here? Because an Elf Wizard 15/AbjurantChampion//Ranger10/AA10 would be more interesting. Of course any number of things could be put in to replace a number of the Wizard levels provide they don't give up spellcasting. Gestalt characters are just that sick when you start looking at what they can do especially if compared to non-spellcasting "normal" characters. With one minor point: Gestalt doesn't allow prestige//prestige at any level. (It also doesn't allow hybrid classes, but the AA isn't really a hybrid. The AbjChamp is more of one, but even then, it isn't "really" (since it only advances one class in the Special column, despite performing well as a warrior from everything else). This doesn't impact the build you presented (1-5 Wizard//Ranger, 6-10 AbjChamp//Ranger, 11-20 Wizard/AA), but it does kind of prevent you from swapping out any base class for any prestige class unless you can squeeze it in during levels 1-5 (i.e. Master Specialist naturally, or a couple cheap tricks for early entry somewhere).
#6 StevenO Jan 14, 2013 14:28:32	With one minor point: Gestalt doesn't allow prestige//prestige at any level. (It also doesn't allow hybrid classes, but the AA isn't really a hybrid. The AbjChamp is more of one, but even then, it isn't "really" (since it only advances one class in the Special column, despite performing well as a warrior from everything else). This doesn't impact the build you presented (1-5 Wizard//Ranger, 6-10 AbjChamp//Ranger, 11-20 Wizard/AA), but it does kind of prevent you from swapping out any base class for any prestige class unless you can squeeze it in during levels 1-5 (i.e. Master Specialist naturally, or a couple cheap tricks for early entry somewhere). I recognized that you aren't supposed to do PrC//PrC with gestalt but as you confirmed my "build" doesn't do that. It requires a feat and take away a bonus feat from wizard to get in trading in five levels of Wizard for Abjurant Champion is a always a "win" in my book. I know that most of the time we think of AbC as a 'hybred' class but if you're already getting the full BAB from Ranger all it's offering is spellcasting and its special abilities. It may shut the character out of other PrCs it could pair with a base class but if we're all honest here gestalt characters can already be terribly powerful compared to normals.