I'm starting a game as 1st level Rogue, and I had a feat to "spare". I wrote "Iron Will" on the sheet, being sensible and all, and then it hit me.
This is a homebrew world, and it's literally a dark world, with a hidden sun. It's populated with humans, some of which might have low-light vision or darkvision (I do), but most don't. Now, I don't know yet how this will be represented mechanically, but if it's not a purely fluffy thing, it could mean constant concealment unless there's a light source near. Could this make Improved Diversion useful?
I remind you that it makes the "Bluff check to create a diversion in order to hide" action a move action (from standard, under normal circumstances) and gives a +4 to said bluff check.
I'm a bit hazy on the rules here. Does that mean I could attack (standard action) and use my move action to bluff and hide, considering that hide is simply part of an action? And if so, can I move at half my speed without penalty to the hide check? Or does it mean that I'll bluff in this round, right after the attack, in order to hide in the next round?
Conversely, could I bluff/hide/move half my speed as a move action and then attack (if I have succeeded at both checks) with sneak attack?
Finally, even if it's the best case scenario, would you think the feat is useful here? Not necessarily powerful or an instant win-button, just something that may reasonably come up and might make a difference once in a while (read: either when fleeing is necessary, or when flanking isn't practical).
The way I see it: in a normal setting, using a diversion to hide is extremely situational, because you must have a cover nearby the exact moment you'll need it. (Remember: we're 1st level here.) Not so if you are constantly in an area of shadowy illumination or darker. So it kind of reminds me of a HiPS effect...
Unless of course I'm horribly wrong.
Thoughts?
Look at 'T_G's Ghost' in my sig. I'm still unsure how he moles as well but it's similar in that he moves, attacks then hides.
There's a PrC called 'Hellbreaker' that has a class feature called 'Mantle of Darkness' that is like Hide in Plain Sight but it doesn't disallow hiding in your own shadow. I like to call it 'advanced HiPS'.
Remember, you get a penalty to your Hide check the farther you are away from a source of concealment when you create a diversion to hide.
I know I'm not answering your question but, right now, I don't have the resources to verify.
If your observers are momentarily distracted, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. The hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
And
Sneak up from Hiding: You can sneak up on someone after emerging from a hiding place. For every 5 feet of open space between you and the target, you take a –5 penalty on your Hide check. If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn’t notice you until you attack or perform some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you.
Anything further than that, talk with your DM regarding what you want to do. It makes sense that the bluff=move action would also include the movement to put you in a place where you could make a hide check.
Edit: Just pulled out the CAd to read over the exact text. The description text is rather... ambiguous, but the table text is a bit clearer (CAd, p104): "Use Bluff to create a diversion, then Hide as a move action"
Makes it more clear that yes, you do get to move as well during that move action.
Fade into Violence feat (PHBII?)
Prereqs: Bluff 6 ranks, Hide 6 ranks.
Benefit: When you wear no/light armor and carry nothing in your hands, as an immediate actions, choose a target. If they threaten you and an ally, FORGET THIS QUOTE
I would delete that quote altogether, but it's not so easily done on a Wii, which is what I am typing from.
Here's the juicy part now:
Shadow Striker
Prereqs: Hide 12 ranks, Move Silently 12 ranks
Benefit: Three choices:
1. Evade Notice: If an ally and you threaten an opponent, on your turn, while you take no hostile actions (like stuff that'd break an Invisibility spell), you can make a Hide check opposed by the threatened foe's Spot check. Success means they can't attack you on their next turn as long as he threatens someone else (apparently, not just the earlier ally that was needed to initiate this tactical maneuver). If you attack them before or during their next turn, consider this benefit null and void.
2. Fade Away: To use, attack opponent as standard action, move away and attempt Hide check as part of move action for the turn. If you hit, it creates a momentary diversion, granting you a +5 bonus on this Hide check.
3. Ghost Strike: Threaten a single foe with an ally. As a standard action, you make a move silently check opposed by foe's Listen check. Success means on the next round, your foe loses DEX to AC against your 1st attack of the round so long as your ally still threatens him.
Fighter bonus feat.
Unfortunately, you can't get it 'til 10th (or is it ninth?) level.
Check out the 'Challenge: Optimization Circus!' thread in my sig for the Combat Trapsmith that uses these feats perfectly.
I could but I won't quote entirely these next feats that are also helpful in the same area: Quicker than the Eye and Expert Tactician.
Lastly, check out the recent 'Rogue/Monk help needed' thread where I mention a skill trick that puts casters in their place with a Bluff check! (Readied action counter)
Rules of Distraction and Hiding (per Rules Compendium, p92)
If your observers are momentarily distracted, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. The hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
That's an important piece of information I had missed. I guess it makes the whole thing rather unreliable at low levels.
Sneak up from Hiding: You can sneak up on someone after emerging from a hiding place. For every 5 feet of open space between you and the target, you take a –5 penalty on your Hide check. If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn’t notice you until you attack or perform some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you.
Another important piece of information. But it clearly refers to "emerging from a hiding place", presumably out in the open. What if the whole area (which is not illuminated, granting concealment) counts as hiding place? Can you just hide next to the target (hoping he doesn't step on you by mistake during his turn)?
You know, I don't know if I would allow that myself.
"I hide... nowhere in particular."
@NiteCyper: I've checked your ideas, all nice and good, and I've used some of them in other builds, but this is 1st level (not expected to go high level any time soon) and I can't make much use of them yet.
Thanks to both of you, I'm still working on it.
Make sure how the DM determines how the "worldwide concealment" works, in the first place.
peejay wrote: