[3.5]Lycan Min/Max: Melee with Natural Attacks - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5]Lycan Min/Max: Melee with Natural Attacks

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
shinayene
Oct 18, 2008 4:37:33 Heya,

i´m gonna play a Lycan: Human, female. Savage Progression.
I will start as lvl1 Class, lvl1 Lycan, lvl1 Wolf.
My favored Combat Style will be Hybrid Form with my Natural Claws. I thought about advancing to PrC War Changer (Complete Fighter), but not till about lvl7-10.

The Character will be settled in a Thief/large Town Background, but as the offensive Force of the grp (me, rogue, wiz, clr).

As i´m not really fluent with the whole feats, i dont know what i should aim for, i want to take Multifighting (monsters manual) as soon as possible and ofc Power attack. Weoapn Focus (Claws), Weapon Specialistation (Claws)?

ok, so here my questions ^^

1. Wolf or Direwolf?
the Savage Progression of the Lycan shows the normal medium wolf (2 lvl) and the Dire Wolf (6 lvl). I dont think that in a urban enviroment, a wolf will be a common animal, so i will not have a real benefit of a normal wolf form. The Dire Wolf is Large, even in Hybrid Form. Which advantages/disadvantages do i have as a Large Creature in D&D Combat?

2. Classes.
I want to fight primaly in my Hybrid form, with my natural attacks. how good/bad will that be in comparison with a dual-wielding ranger or fighter, babarian? Which Classes should i take? As part of a Thief-oriented grp, and some if not many problems my master thoughts me in my way (City Guards?) i want a sort of escape mechanism, like hide. as the most enemy will be humans, Ranger would be a not bad addition.
Anyhow, i dont have a real clue which classes at which lvl will suit, which feats i should take and so on.

Well, i think you get it

help is most wellcome
#2
brainpiercing
Oct 18, 2008 6:02:01 How high will you play? Early on, natural weapons are the *****, because you have more of them than any other low-level character. Later, they tend to suck unless you can use them in addition to iteratives with manufactured weapons. In every case you need a source of bonus damage in addition to Str. Sneak/Skirmish/Sudden Strike damage is an option, but won't happen until later. Also, you are probably so gimped by your LA that hurting your BAB even more will suck.
A mouthpick weapon from LoM will let you do two claws as secondary attacks with the mouthpick weapon doing the iteratives. This is even pretty cheesy, since mouthpick weapons automatically grant proficiency. So you could take a large exotic weapon like a spiked chain or something that does a crapton of damage like a goliath warhammer. The weapon can even be two-handed, I just don't think you'll get the 1.5x Str bonus for wielding it in two hands unless, perhaps, you previously got 1.5x Str to your Bite attack.

You might consider taking Rapidstrike (Drac) to get one more claw attack at -5.

Some Tiger Claw or Desert Wind maneuvers from ToB might synergise with natural weapons, or else Shadow Hand maneuvers will fit your character concept. The Warblade (for Tiger Claw and others) is the stronger choice than the Swordsage (for Desert Wind/Shadow Hand), but a Dip in Swordsage can reap many maneuvers and if you were to take Adaptive Style you could even recover them in a bearable manner as a full-round action.

You might try to persuade one of the other players to switch to playing a Druid. That way he might buff you with spells like Greater Magic Fang - and rule on his own, too.

These are just some suggestions. Overall you will have to do most of the research yourself.
#3
shinayene
Oct 18, 2008 9:25:18 This is my current idea, without any magical items, as i dont have a clue what would suit to this character.
lvlprogression:

lvl1 Ranger
lvl2 Lycan
lvl3 Direwolf
lvl4 Direwolf
lvl5 Lycan
lvl6 Lycan
lvl7 Ranger
lvl8 Direwolf
lvl9 Direwolf
lvl10 Ranger
lvl11 Direwolf
lvl12 Direwolf
lvl13 Fighter
lvl14 Fighter
lvl15 Warshaper
lvl16 Warshaper
lvl17 Warshaper
lvl18 Warshaper
lvl19 Warshaper

human:
+1 Feat, +4SP,

lvl3 Ranger
BAB +3, +3d8HD, Ref+3, Will+1, Fort+3, Favored Enemy, Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance. SP: (6+Int)x6

lvl3 Lycan
Wis +2, natural armor +2, alternate form (wolf), lowlight vision, shapechanger, Alternate form (hybrid),
wolf empathy, werewolf feats (Iron Will, Weapon Focus [bite]), Curse of lycanthropy, damage reduction (10/silver)

lvl6 Dire Wolf
all Forms:
+6d8HD, BAB+5, all Res+5, SP: (2+Int)x6, Natural Armor +2, Scent,
Wolf/Hybrid Form:
+14 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con, Trip, Large, Run, Alertness

lvl2 Fighter:
+2d10,BAB+2, Fort+3, SP: (2+Int)x2, 2 Bonus Feat (Fighter).

lvl5 Warshaper:
+5d8, +3BAB, Fort+4, Ref+1, Will+1, SP (2+Int)x5
Morphic Immunities (Immun to Crits/Stun)
Morphic Weapons (Claws Damage from Large=>Huge)
Morphic Body (+4Str and +4Con)
Morphic Reach (+5ft Reach)
Morphic Healing (Fast Healing 2, Fullround => Concantration (DC=Damage) to heal 10HP)
Flashmorph (Morph as a Move Action)

Stats:
+4 to Attributes (4, 8, 12, 16)==> Str18=>22

Feats:
1 human: Blind Fight
(1lvl): Weapon Focus(Claws)
(3lvl): Power Attack.
(6lvl): Multiattack
(9lvl): Improved Natural Attack
(12lvl): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
(Fighter 1): Combat Expertise
(Fighter 2): Dodge
(15lvl): Karmic Strike
(18lvl): Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

HD:3d8, 6d8, 2d10, 5d8, ==> 14d8+2d10: 100+16xCon
BAB: +13
Fort:+15
Will:+7+2
Ref:+9
SP: 88

Correlia Silberfang, lvl19 *****
38PB, 18, 15, 14, 13, 8, 11

Human:
Str:26/+8
Dex:15/+2
Con:18/+4
Int:13/+2
Wis:10/-
Cha:11/-

HD:14d8+2d10 (100+16xCon)
Fort:+15
Will:+9
Ref:+9
SkillPoints: 88

HP:164
AC: 10+4+2

Special:
Natural Armor +4, LowLight Vision, Favored Enemy (Human), Scent, damage reduction (10/silver)

Speed: 30ft.

Feats:
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Bite, Claw),
Iron Will, Power Attack,Alertness, Run, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Expertise, Dogde, Karmic Strike

BAB: +13
Attacks: 13+Str... 13/8/3
Reach: 10ft.
r. Claw: 21/16/11 Dmg: 1d8+8
l. Claw: 21/19/17 Dmg: 1d8+4
Bite: whatever

Hybrid:
Str:40/+15
Dex:19/+4
Con:24/+7
Int:13/-
Wis:10/-
Cha:11/+2

HD:14d8+2d10 (100+16xCon)
Fort:+15
Will:+9
Ref:+9

HP:212
AC: 18
Special:
Natural Armor +4, LowLight Vision, Favored Enemy (Human), Scent, damage reduction (10/silver), Trip, Size: Large,

Speed: 30ft.

Feats:
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Bite, Claw),
Iron Will, Power Attack,Alertness, Run, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Expertise, Dogde, Karmic Strike

BAB: +13
Attacks: 13+Str-1... 27/22/18
Reach: 15ft.
r. Claw: 26/21/16 Dmg: 2d6+15
l. Claw: 26/24/12 Dmg: 2d6+7
Bite: whatever

Wolf:
Str:40/+15
Dex:19/+4
Con:24/+7
Int:13/+2
Wis:10/-
Cha:11/-

HD:14d8+2d10 (100+16xCon)
Fort:+15
Will:+9
Ref:+9

HP:212
AC:
Special:
Natural Armor +4, LowLight Vision, Favored Enemy (Human), Scent, damage reduction (10/silver), Trip, Size: Large,

Speed: 30ft.

Feats:
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Bite, Claw),
Iron Will, Power Attack,Alertness, Run, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Expertise, Dogde, Karmic Strike

BAB: +13
Attacks: 13+Str-1... 27/22/18
Reach: 15ft.
Bite: 3d6+22
#4
reis
Oct 18, 2008 11:41:18 take multiattack so your secondary attacks with a natural weapon take only a -2 penalty instead of -5
#5
shinayene
Oct 19, 2008 2:36:24 feats added: Improved Natural Attack, Multiattack.
#6
darksamuari
Oct 19, 2008 2:48:36 I would throw in the other option of a Ranger/Scout build in which you could play up the hidden striker type of werewolf.
#7
shinayene
Oct 19, 2008 3:23:51 whats that hidden striker?
well, and i have 3 lvl of Ranger, i took the 2 lvl Fighter to get the feets.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shinayene Oct 18, 2008 4:37:33	Heya, i´m gonna play a Lycan: Human, female. Savage Progression. I will start as lvl1 Class, lvl1 Lycan, lvl1 Wolf. My favored Combat Style will be Hybrid Form with my Natural Claws. I thought about advancing to PrC War Changer (Complete Fighter), but not till about lvl7-10. The Character will be settled in a Thief/large Town Background, but as the offensive Force of the grp (me, rogue, wiz, clr). As i´m not really fluent with the whole feats, i dont know what i should aim for, i want to take Multifighting (monsters manual) as soon as possible and ofc Power attack. Weoapn Focus (Claws), Weapon Specialistation (Claws)? ok, so here my questions ^^ 1. Wolf or Direwolf? the Savage Progression of the Lycan shows the normal medium wolf (2 lvl) and the Dire Wolf (6 lvl). I dont think that in a urban enviroment, a wolf will be a common animal, so i will not have a real benefit of a normal wolf form. The Dire Wolf is Large, even in Hybrid Form. Which advantages/disadvantages do i have as a Large Creature in D&D Combat? 2. Classes. I want to fight primaly in my Hybrid form, with my natural attacks. how good/bad will that be in comparison with a dual-wielding ranger or fighter, babarian? Which Classes should i take? As part of a Thief-oriented grp, and some if not many problems my master thoughts me in my way (City Guards?) i want a sort of escape mechanism, like hide. as the most enemy will be humans, Ranger would be a not bad addition. Anyhow, i dont have a real clue which classes at which lvl will suit, which feats i should take and so on. Well, i think you get it help is most wellcome
#2 brainpiercing Oct 18, 2008 6:02:01	How high will you play? Early on, natural weapons are the *****, because you have more of them than any other low-level character. Later, they tend to suck unless you can use them in addition to iteratives with manufactured weapons. In every case you need a source of bonus damage in addition to Str. Sneak/Skirmish/Sudden Strike damage is an option, but won't happen until later. Also, you are probably so gimped by your LA that hurting your BAB even more will suck. A mouthpick weapon from LoM will let you do two claws as secondary attacks with the mouthpick weapon doing the iteratives. This is even pretty cheesy, since mouthpick weapons automatically grant proficiency. So you could take a large exotic weapon like a spiked chain or something that does a crapton of damage like a goliath warhammer. The weapon can even be two-handed, I just don't think you'll get the 1.5x Str bonus for wielding it in two hands unless, perhaps, you previously got 1.5x Str to your Bite attack. You might consider taking Rapidstrike (Drac) to get one more claw attack at -5. Some Tiger Claw or Desert Wind maneuvers from ToB might synergise with natural weapons, or else Shadow Hand maneuvers will fit your character concept. The Warblade (for Tiger Claw and others) is the stronger choice than the Swordsage (for Desert Wind/Shadow Hand), but a Dip in Swordsage can reap many maneuvers and if you were to take Adaptive Style you could even recover them in a bearable manner as a full-round action. You might try to persuade one of the other players to switch to playing a Druid. That way he might buff you with spells like Greater Magic Fang - and rule on his own, too. These are just some suggestions. Overall you will have to do most of the research yourself.
#3 shinayene Oct 18, 2008 9:25:18	This is my current idea, without any magical items, as i dont have a clue what would suit to this character. lvlprogression: lvl1 Ranger lvl2 Lycan lvl3 Direwolf lvl4 Direwolf lvl5 Lycan lvl6 Lycan lvl7 Ranger lvl8 Direwolf lvl9 Direwolf lvl10 Ranger lvl11 Direwolf lvl12 Direwolf lvl13 Fighter lvl14 Fighter lvl15 Warshaper lvl16 Warshaper lvl17 Warshaper lvl18 Warshaper lvl19 Warshaper human: +1 Feat, +4SP, lvl3 Ranger BAB +3, +3d8HD, Ref+3, Will+1, Fort+3, Favored Enemy, Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance. SP: (6+Int)x6 lvl3 Lycan Wis +2, natural armor +2, alternate form (wolf), lowlight vision, shapechanger, Alternate form (hybrid), wolf empathy, werewolf feats (Iron Will, Weapon Focus [bite]), Curse of lycanthropy, damage reduction (10/silver) lvl6 Dire Wolf all Forms: +6d8HD, BAB+5, all Res+5, SP: (2+Int)x6, Natural Armor +2, Scent, Wolf/Hybrid Form: +14 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con, Trip, Large, Run, Alertness lvl2 Fighter: +2d10,BAB+2, Fort+3, SP: (2+Int)x2, 2 Bonus Feat (Fighter). lvl5 Warshaper: +5d8, +3BAB, Fort+4, Ref+1, Will+1, SP (2+Int)x5 Morphic Immunities (Immun to Crits/Stun) Morphic Weapons (Claws Damage from Large=>Huge) Morphic Body (+4Str and +4Con) Morphic Reach (+5ft Reach) Morphic Healing (Fast Healing 2, Fullround => Concantration (DC=Damage) to heal 10HP) Flashmorph (Morph as a Move Action) Stats: +4 to Attributes (4, 8, 12, 16)==> Str18=>22 Feats: 1 human: Blind Fight (1lvl): Weapon Focus(Claws) (3lvl): Power Attack. (6lvl): Multiattack (9lvl): Improved Natural Attack (12lvl): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Fighter 1): Combat Expertise (Fighter 2): Dodge (15lvl): Karmic Strike (18lvl): Greater Two-Weapon Fighting HD:3d8, 6d8, 2d10, 5d8, ==> 14d8+2d10: 100+16xCon BAB: +13 Fort:+15 Will:+7+2 Ref:+9 SP: 88 Correlia Silberfang, lvl19 ***** 38PB, 18, 15, 14, 13, 8, 11 Human: Str:26/+8 Dex:15/+2 Con:18/+4 Int:13/+2 Wis:10/- Cha:11/- HD:14d8+2d10 (100+16xCon) Fort:+15 Will:+9 Ref:+9 SkillPoints: 88 HP:164 AC: 10+4+2 Special: Natural Armor +4, LowLight Vision, Favored Enemy (Human), Scent, damage reduction (10/silver) Speed: 30ft. Feats: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Bite, Claw), Iron Will, Power Attack,Alertness, Run, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Expertise, Dogde, Karmic Strike BAB: +13 Attacks: 13+Str... 13/8/3 Reach: 10ft. r. Claw: 21/16/11 Dmg: 1d8+8 l. Claw: 21/19/17 Dmg: 1d8+4 Bite: whatever Hybrid: Str:40/+15 Dex:19/+4 Con:24/+7 Int:13/- Wis:10/- Cha:11/+2 HD:14d8+2d10 (100+16xCon) Fort:+15 Will:+9 Ref:+9 HP:212 AC: 18 Special: Natural Armor +4, LowLight Vision, Favored Enemy (Human), Scent, damage reduction (10/silver), Trip, Size: Large, Speed: 30ft. Feats: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Bite, Claw), Iron Will, Power Attack,Alertness, Run, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Expertise, Dogde, Karmic Strike BAB: +13 Attacks: 13+Str-1... 27/22/18 Reach: 15ft. r. Claw: 26/21/16 Dmg: 2d6+15 l. Claw: 26/24/12 Dmg: 2d6+7 Bite: whatever Wolf: Str:40/+15 Dex:19/+4 Con:24/+7 Int:13/+2 Wis:10/- Cha:11/- HD:14d8+2d10 (100+16xCon) Fort:+15 Will:+9 Ref:+9 HP:212 AC: Special: Natural Armor +4, LowLight Vision, Favored Enemy (Human), Scent, damage reduction (10/silver), Trip, Size: Large, Speed: 30ft. Feats: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Track, Wild Empathy, Endurance, Weapon Focus (Bite, Claw), Iron Will, Power Attack,Alertness, Run, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, Combat Expertise, Dogde, Karmic Strike BAB: +13 Attacks: 13+Str-1... 27/22/18 Reach: 15ft. Bite: 3d6+22
#4 reis Oct 18, 2008 11:41:18	take multiattack so your secondary attacks with a natural weapon take only a -2 penalty instead of -5
#5 shinayene Oct 19, 2008 2:36:24	feats added: Improved Natural Attack, Multiattack.
#6 darksamuari Oct 19, 2008 2:48:36	I would throw in the other option of a Ranger/Scout build in which you could play up the hidden striker type of werewolf.
#7 shinayene Oct 19, 2008 3:23:51	whats that hidden striker? well, and i have 3 lvl of Ranger, i took the 2 lvl Fighter to get the feets.