3.5 Master Thrower - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 Master Thrower

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Delandel
Jul 26, 2009 2:08:59 I want to make a level 9 character for a 3.5 campaign whose primary purpose is damage dealing. I thought it would be neat to make a master thrower for it.

All of the core books and the complete books are available to me.

I'm having a tough time trying to decide how to dish out the damage though. I was thinking perhaps a human rogue 3 / fighter 4 / master thrower 2. I'd probably take these feats: point blank shot (human), precise shot (lvl 1), far shot (lvl 3), weapon focus (daggers) (fighter), two weapon fighting (fighter), rapid shot (lvl 6), weapon specialization (fighter), quick draw (master thrower), improved two weapon fighting (lvl 9). Then I'd take the weapon trick Palm Throw from master thrower.

Taking just feats and abilities in consideration, my guy would be throwing daggers at a range of 20ft, +10 atk (+8 BAB, +1 point blank shot, +1 weapon focus), 1d4 +3 damage (+1 point blank shot, +2 weapon specialization). Each attack could also have a sneak attack of +2d6.

A full attack with ITWF, rapid shot, and palm throw (again no stats): +6/+6, +6/+6, +6/+6, +1/+1, -4/-4.

I was also considering rogue 3 / swashbuckler 4 / master thrower 2, I'd be trading 3 warrior feats (and use another for Daring Outlaw) for insightful strike and +4d6 sneak attack instead of +2d6. Then there's swashbuckler 3 / fighter 4 / master thrower 2. That would net me +1 BAB, Insightful Strike that would raise my damage and, if I took the Daring Warrior feat, 1 more fighter feat to work with. I'd lose my +2d6 sneak attack though.

What's best from a combat perspective?
#2
aethernox
Jul 26, 2009 3:34:47 One thing:

Palm Throw doesn't work that way.
You deal damage twice, and you don't gain any attacks. It counts as volley damage, so all of that precision damage you're stacking only applies once.

I'm editting out my dragonfire inspiration warblade suggestion, as you don't have the books. In core+completes, palm throw doesn't really reach its full potential. With that in mind, the first suggestion would benefit more from palm throw than the second, because of the whole precision damage thing.
#3
Delandel
Jul 26, 2009 14:46:23 Oh sorry, I guess I'm not too familiar with all the d&d 3.5 mechanics yet. Most of my characters have been wizards (treantmonk's guide to conjuration gods), and I had a blast playing a duskblade once.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by precision damage. Looking at palm throw, I did indeed miss the fact that it's doubling only damage not attacks. Sneak attack only applies once per attack, so in my above example it's not 10 attacks just 5, so I only get 5 SA. Looking at Insightful Strike though it says, "She applies her Intelligence bonus (if any) as a bonus on damage rolls (in addition to any Strength bonus she may have)," so that bonus would still apply to all my extra damage rolls from the volley right? And Weapon Specialization says, "+2 bonus on all damage rolls," so that too applies to my extra damage from volley? Or is everything I listed considered precision damage and thus I'm super boned?

This does seem alot harder than I originally thought it would be. I'd probably also need a bunch of +1 returning daggers just to keep attacking.
#4
aethernox
Jul 26, 2009 18:03:41 Precision damage is an umbrella term for any sort of damage that requires the character to be able to target vital organs of some sort. This obviously includes sneak attack, skirmish, and sudden strike damage. Insightful Strike counts as precision damage, since it fails against creatures immune to critical hits. There's a rule that states that any sort of volley (that is, any action that lets you make multiple attacks aside from a full attack action; stuff like manyshot, spells like scorching ray, and, iirc according to the errata on complete warrior, palm throw's extra damage.

Only precision damage is limited in this way; weapon specialization and ranged weapon mastery both give extra damage that does work with palm throw, as do several other sources.

Also, the returning weapon enhancement isn't very good. It's misleading, because your weapons don't return until your next turn. There are ways to get passed this, but one of the key ones (Bloodstorm Blade 4) is in ToB.

Optimizing throwing isn't very easy with the books you have, but there are lots of ways to handle melee damage dealing. If you're really wanting to throw daggers, remember that you won't get through quite a bit of DR without magic weapons, which can get expensive to throw.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Delandel Jul 26, 2009 2:08:59	I want to make a level 9 character for a 3.5 campaign whose primary purpose is damage dealing. I thought it would be neat to make a master thrower for it. All of the core books and the complete books are available to me. I'm having a tough time trying to decide how to dish out the damage though. I was thinking perhaps a human rogue 3 / fighter 4 / master thrower 2. I'd probably take these feats: point blank shot (human), precise shot (lvl 1), far shot (lvl 3), weapon focus (daggers) (fighter), two weapon fighting (fighter), rapid shot (lvl 6), weapon specialization (fighter), quick draw (master thrower), improved two weapon fighting (lvl 9). Then I'd take the weapon trick Palm Throw from master thrower. Taking just feats and abilities in consideration, my guy would be throwing daggers at a range of 20ft, +10 atk (+8 BAB, +1 point blank shot, +1 weapon focus), 1d4 +3 damage (+1 point blank shot, +2 weapon specialization). Each attack could also have a sneak attack of +2d6. A full attack with ITWF, rapid shot, and palm throw (again no stats): +6/+6, +6/+6, +6/+6, +1/+1, -4/-4. I was also considering rogue 3 / swashbuckler 4 / master thrower 2, I'd be trading 3 warrior feats (and use another for Daring Outlaw) for insightful strike and +4d6 sneak attack instead of +2d6. Then there's swashbuckler 3 / fighter 4 / master thrower 2. That would net me +1 BAB, Insightful Strike that would raise my damage and, if I took the Daring Warrior feat, 1 more fighter feat to work with. I'd lose my +2d6 sneak attack though. What's best from a combat perspective?
#2 aethernox Jul 26, 2009 3:34:47	One thing: Palm Throw doesn't work that way. You deal damage twice, and you don't gain any attacks. It counts as volley damage, so all of that precision damage you're stacking only applies once. I'm editting out my dragonfire inspiration warblade suggestion, as you don't have the books. In core+completes, palm throw doesn't really reach its full potential. With that in mind, the first suggestion would benefit more from palm throw than the second, because of the whole precision damage thing.
#3 Delandel Jul 26, 2009 14:46:23	Oh sorry, I guess I'm not too familiar with all the d&d 3.5 mechanics yet. Most of my characters have been wizards (treantmonk's guide to conjuration gods), and I had a blast playing a duskblade once. I'm not exactly sure what you meant by precision damage. Looking at palm throw, I did indeed miss the fact that it's doubling only damage not attacks. Sneak attack only applies once per attack, so in my above example it's not 10 attacks just 5, so I only get 5 SA. Looking at Insightful Strike though it says, "She applies her Intelligence bonus (if any) as a bonus on damage rolls (in addition to any Strength bonus she may have)," so that bonus would still apply to all my extra damage rolls from the volley right? And Weapon Specialization says, "+2 bonus on all damage rolls," so that too applies to my extra damage from volley? Or is everything I listed considered precision damage and thus I'm super boned? This does seem alot harder than I originally thought it would be. I'd probably also need a bunch of +1 returning daggers just to keep attacking.
#4 aethernox Jul 26, 2009 18:03:41	Precision damage is an umbrella term for any sort of damage that requires the character to be able to target vital organs of some sort. This obviously includes sneak attack, skirmish, and sudden strike damage. Insightful Strike counts as precision damage, since it fails against creatures immune to critical hits. There's a rule that states that any sort of volley (that is, any action that lets you make multiple attacks aside from a full attack action; stuff like manyshot, spells like scorching ray, and, iirc according to the errata on complete warrior, palm throw's extra damage. Only precision damage is limited in this way; weapon specialization and ranged weapon mastery both give extra damage that does work with palm throw, as do several other sources. Also, the returning weapon enhancement isn't very good. It's misleading, because your weapons don't return until your next turn. There are ways to get passed this, but one of the key ones (Bloodstorm Blade 4) is in ToB. Optimizing throwing isn't very easy with the books you have, but there are lots of ways to handle melee damage dealing. If you're really wanting to throw daggers, remember that you won't get through quite a bit of DR without magic weapons, which can get expensive to throw.