P.S. If there is a better starting race than a human I'm open to suggestions. And I forgot to mention I have just about all the resources available to me.
Your best bet as a non-monk unarmed combatant is an Unarmed Swordsage with Improved Natural Attack, Snap Kick, and etc.
As a monk, you should go Monk2/Psychic Warrior18, or Monk/Fist of the Forest/Shou Disciple/Shiba Protector
Also worth noting: If I stick with the monk I was planning on straight monk until 20, unless you can really help me out with how to prestige and when, and what feats to get.
1. Improved Natural Attack go go.
2. Get party mage to cast Mage Armor.
3. You either must pick Weapon Finesse or focus on STR. STR-based monks do surprisingly well, but must abandon a large chunk of Monk abilities. Fortunately, you already can get two stats to AC, so you get extra benefit from boosting both of those....
UNfortunately, you don't actually get much in the way of WIS abilities.
You want Magic Fang permanencied on yourself.
Okay... Many melee builds are based on Power Attack and do okay. Effectively, you get 5 points less Base attack, so you need to make up the difference WITHOUT lowering your BAB too much. You also don't get Fighter's focuses to single weapon attacks, and Monks can be seen as single weapon specialists.
You should always try to stun what you can, and trip what you can't. See if you can get your DM to allow Knock-down.
Despite the fact, that monks are mechanically inferior, they can do just fine in an average campaign.
Ask your DM if you can enchant your body as a weapon (since it counts as a manufactured weapon) for, say, a double cost. Monks naturally get a whole lot of attacks so you want as many carriers and adders to those attacks as possible, preferrably without power attack.
I exaggerate, but only slightly.
I recommend, as a monk, multiclassing before your 7th level of monk at the latest, and try to get into Deepwarden (Races of Stone, the first two levels are all you need and they're available on Crystalkeep), Fist of the Forest (C Champion), and Shou Disciple (Oriental Adventures).
You get Con to AC twice, so you can just focus on Int and Con as your main stats, with a bit of Dex on the side for Combat Reflexes.
Best multiclass for this purpose is a bit of Ranger followed by a bit of fighter.
There was an interesting build using this method I had a hand in creating: Fistbeard Beardfist
Now, I personally think the build would be better off with Kensai replaced by Shou Disciple, but w/e.
Anywhoo...give it a looks see.
human 4 8 12 16 20
Str 8 14 16 18
Dex 8 15 16 19 22 25 27
Con 8 14 16 18 21
Int 8 12 12
Wis 8 12 14
Cha 8 8 8
28 0
With the extra 2 pts you have, you could bump the Con score up by 1 to begin with.
1-20: Cleric 1/Monk 12/Contemplative 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Fist of Forest 1/ShadowDancer 1
{13th: Cleric 1/Monk 12
Hps: 107 = 8 +60 +39
Init.: +6
AC: 30 = 10 +8 (armor) +6 (dex) +1 (nat. armor) +2 (defl.) +1 (misc. wis) +2 (monk)
T: 21, F-F: 24
F: +17 = +2 +8 +3 +2 +2
R: +16 = +0 +8 +6 +2
W: +13 = +2 +8 +1 +2
BAB: +9/+4
TAB: +15/+10
Exalted Strike: +17/+12
Flurry: +17/+17/+17/+12
Dam:
Main: 2d6+4
Off: 2d6+3
}
{19th: Cleric 1/Monk 12/Contemplative 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Fist of Forest 1
Hps: 196 = 8 +60 +8 +12 +7 +6 +95
Init.: +12
AC: 42 = 10 +10 (armor) +8 (dex) +2 (nat. armor) +3 (defl.) +5 (misc. con) +2 (misc. wis) +2 (monk)
T: 30, F-F: 34
F: +27 = +2 +8 +0 +3 +2 +2 +5 +3 +2
R: +21 = +0 +8 +0 +0 +0 +2 +8 +3
W: +18 = +2 +8 +3 +0 +0 +0 +2 +3
BAB: +14/+9/+4
TAB: +22/+17/+12
Exalted Strike: +26/+21/+16
Flurry: +26/+26/+26/+21/+16
TWF: +24/+24/+24/+24/+19/+19/+14/+14
Charge: +26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16/+16
Dam:
Main: 2d8+8
Off: 2d8+6
}
20th:
Hps: 206 = 8 +60 +8 +12 +7 +6 +5 +100
Init.: +12
AC: 42 = 10 +10 (armor) +8 (dex) +2 (nat. armor) +3 (defl.) +5 (misc. con) +2 (misc. wis) +2 (monk)
T: 30, F-F: 34
F: +27 = +2 +8 +0 +3 +2 +2 +0 +5 +3 +2
R: +23 = +0 +8 +0 +0 +0 +2 +2 +8 +3
W: +18 = +2 +8 +3 +0 +0 +0 +0 +2 +3
BAB: +14/+9/+4
TAB: +22/+17/+12
Exalted Strike: +27/+22/+17
Flurry: +27/+27/+27/+22/+17
TWF: +25/+25/+25/+25/+20/+20/+15/+15
Charge: +27/+27/+27/+27/+22/+22/+17/+17
Dam:
Main: 2d8+9
Off: 2d8+7
Feats:
1) Sacred Vow (1st), Vow of Poverty (Human)
2) Improv. Unarmed Strike (Monk), Improv. Grapple (Monk)
3) Expeditious Dodge (3rd), Combat Reflexes (Monk 2nd)
6) Weapon Finesse (6th)
7) Improv. Trip (Monk 6th)
9) TWF (9th)
12) Great Fortitude (12th)
15) Power Attack (15th), Improv. TWF (Fighter 1st)
16) Greater TWF (Fighter 2nd)
18) Mobility (18th)
Skills:
1) K. (religion) 4, Bluff 4, Hide 4, Escape Artist 2
2) H 5, Move Silently 5
3) H 6, M.S. 6, Escape Artist 6
4) H 7, M.S. 7, E.A. 7, Bluff 5.5
5) H 8, M.S. 8, E.A. 8, B 7
6) H 9, E.A. 9, B 9
7) H 10, E.A. 10, B 10, Perform (dance) 2
8) H 11, E.A. 11, B 11, P (d) 4
9) H 12, E.A. 12, B 12, P (d) 5, K. (r) 5
10) K. (r) 11
11) H 13, E.A. 13, B 13, K. (r) 13
12) H 15, E.A. 15, B 14
13) H 16, E.A. 16, B 16
14) H 17, B 17
15) H 18, B 18
16) E.A. 18
17) H 19, B 19
18) Handle Animal 4, E.A. 19
19) H 21
20) H 23, B 23, E.A. 21
14, 14, 14, 14, 16, 16
Oh wow... So if I don't roll absolutely amazing, junk the monk?
There are links to several monk builds in my sig. Check out the "Raging... etc monk", the "Half-orc paragon monks", and the "Mage Killer" threads. And maybe "Master Po".
If I were going to build a "monk" today, it would probably be an Ardent/Monk multiclass with the Tashalatora feat.
Bah, that's crazy.
Crazy?
THIS IS CHAROP!
*Kicks Phaedrus into a pit*
One way I've found to power it up is to buy an item in Complete Warrior called Gauntlet of the Dwarven Forge. It's an item that I doubt was meant to be written the way it is, but if there was errata on it, I've never seen it.
Basically, it does its own little thing, giving you improved evasion against fire attacks, and lighting up when you give a command word. But when it's lit up, anyone else who touches it takes 1d6+10 damage. It would be pretty difficult for your DM to argue that you're punching people but your gauntlets aren't touching them.
However, the benefit is limited. It's fire damage. Everything and its mother resists fire damage in later levels. But when you first get it, you'll probably be the king of melee damage!
Another question, my friend just recommended me the Half-Celestial starting template. It looks amazing but is it really worth the +4LA?
Good gods no. There are templates that are worth it, but this is not one of them.
Templates that are worth it are Feral from Savage Species and Mineral Warrior from... The Underdark? I'm getting old. I'm not a hundred percent on the source for Mineral Warrior anymore. I'm sure someone will come and confirm it.
Other than that, I'm not really a huge fan of templates. Another LA that's worth it is Thri-Kreen from MM2. ECL 3, 2 HD of Monstrous Humanoid, which gives you full BAB for those two levels. So, really, if you're a warrior, you're just missing out on a level on BAB and a few levels of class abilities, and you're picking up two extra arms. That's a pretty good deal.
*Kicks Phaedrus into a pit*
No one kicks Phaedrus into a pit on my watch. Feral, dark, shadow, mineral warrior, draconic, and maybe a few others are worth their LA. But dark and shadow are technically available without LA, though getting shadow with no LA carries a reasonable chance of insta-death for your character.
As far as VoP is concerned, I really don't recommend it. It has the advantage of not having to worry about shopping, and items, but it has the disadvantage of pretty much always being weaker than a character with the correct amount of wealth in magic items. Of course, if your DM doesn't give out treasure, VoP will make you a tiny god in comparison to the rest of your party.
I'm starting off in a new campaign as a VoP Monk. I believe the attribute system will work on a 30 point system with a base 8 in all stats. Can I get a good starting attribute build for a human monk? Thank you! If this is in the wrong section I'm sorry, I'm new here.
P.S. If there is a better starting race than a human I'm open to suggestions. And I forgot to mention I have just about all the resources available to me.
Obviously people have gone off the road to what this person is asking for. He wants to play a Unarmed melee combatant. Just go with it, only way he learns is by making mistakes. Its like riding a bike.
I would go Dwarf for 2 obvious reasons. You need Complete Champion and Races of Stone for this. Dwarf Unarmed Swordsage 16, Deep warden 2, Fist of the Forest 2.
Main attributes? Con, Dex, Str, Wis, rest are dump scores.
Con to AC 2x (2nd lvl Deepwarden (RoS), 2nd lvl Fist of the Forest (CC)), both classes allow your con mod to stack to AC. Then you can use your. I would try to keep your Dex up high regardless, Unarmed Swordsages need high dex and Wis for their own class features.
Shadowblade is a HUGE plus here because you can now get Dex to attack and damage (If I recall correctly), 4th lvl Swordsage ability allows you to get Wis to Damage.
As an unarmed swordsage you get the Unarmed damage of a Monk of the = level you are. I would say thats pretty good ?
So..........Con to AC 2x, Wis to Attack and Damage, Wis to Damage (Shadowblade). Plus the feats youll choose which hopefully you dont mess up on LOL.
Mind you the Unarmed swordsage is only godly if you take atleast a few maneuvers and stances from the Shadowhand branch of the Maneuvers.
Hmmmmmmmmmm, I think thats it.
EDIT: Yes Feral template is kick arse. I have used it multiple times. Also VOP benefits some people say are useless but I dont think they are personally. It all depends on how you use the Feat and what purpose your going for with it. If your DM allows it once you get to 21+ lvls, you can take EPIC VOW OF POVERTY, thats more fun. Take Vow of Peace? make it a change and do insane Subdual damage
.RAW says you only need to defeat the bad guys they never say how as long as they are. Which means you can do subdual damage to your foes and still gain the benefits of Vow of Peace. Oh the fun
, So your pretty much walking around with a Calming Aura going sure, but you can beat people into unconsciousness and still claim the XP of defeating 1: Unarmed Strike (Monk), Flurry of Blows (Monk), Sacred Vow: Human or Strongheart Halfling Feat (Book of Exalted Deeds), Vow of Poverty: 1st Level Feat (Book of Exalted Deeds), Vow of Nonviolence: Bonus Exalted Feat from Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds), Stunning Fist: Bonus Monk Feat (PHB), +4 AC (Vow of Poverty), +4 on saves against your stunning fist (Vow of Nonviolence), +2 Diplomacy (Sacred Vow)
2: Evasion (Monk), Vow of Peace: Bonus Exalted Feat from Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds), Combat Reflexes and Deflect Arrows is really up to you, I always take Deflect Arrows just because, You emit a 20ft. radius of Calm Emotions will save to resist DC 10+half your character level+Cha (Vow of Peace), +2 natural Armor, +2 exalted bonus, and +2 deflection bonus to your AC (Vow of Peace), +4 Diplomacy (Vow of Peace), If anyone attacks you with a manufactured weapon it must immediately make a Fort Save (DC 10+half your character level+Con) or Shatter against your skin (Vow of Peace)
3: Still Mind (Monk), Weapon Finesse (Players Handbook), Endure Elements (Vow of Poverty), +1 AC (Vow of Poverty)
4: Ki Strike (Magic) (Monk), Slow fall 20ft. (Monk), +1 on all attack and damage rolls (Vow of Poverty), Nimbus of Light: Bonus Exalted Feat from Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds), +2 Diplomacy and +2 Sense Motive against good aligned creatures (Nimbus of Light)
5: Purity of Body (Monk), You don't need to eat or drink (Vow of Poverty)
6: Slow Fall 30ft. (Monk), Once again Improved Disarm or Improved Trip is really up to you, Dodge: 6th Level Feat (PHB), Holy Radiance: Bonus Exalted Feat from Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds), at will you may emit a 10ft. radius of bright light (20ft. shadowy area) any undead within 10 feet of you take 1d4 damage until they leave the 10ft radius (Holy Radiance), +1 AC (Vow of Poverty), as well as another +1 deflection bonus to AC (Vow of Poverty)
7: Wholeness of Body (Monk), +1 on all saves (Vow of Poverty), +2 to any ability score (Vow of Poverty)
8: Slow fall 40ft. (Monk), Touch of Golden Ice: Bonus Exalted Feat from Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds), +1 natural armor bonus to AC, immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to discern alignment (Vow of Poverty)
So from here you get the basics of the idea, it would take me way to long to write out what else to take. You get a bunch of bonuses from Vow of Poverty which are all on pages 29 and 30 of the Book of Exalted Deeds. To be completely honest I kinda just picked some random feats other than the Vows, I like to take Weapon Finesse but it's completely up to you. Hope this helps
Our DM is very treasure stingy, hence me taking VoP. But what makes the feral so absurdly overpowered for a +1 LA? And would it be good enough to slap on my monk? And I did get 14,14,14,14,16,16 as stats.
As far as optimization is concerned, then, VoP is a good choice. But if your DM is a jerk, he's going to punish you for it. Just a word of warning.
If you can get Feral past your DM, go for it. It's an absurdly strong collection of stat boosts, special attacks, and special qualities. Possibly the strongest features are Fast Healing and Pounce. Fast Healing means you never need out of combat healing, ever. Pounce means you can full attack on a charge.
As far as optimization is concerned, then, VoP is a good choice. But if your DM is a jerk, he's going to punish you for it. Just a word of warning.
If you can get Feral past your DM, go for it. It's an absurdly strong collection of stat boosts, special attacks, and special qualities. Possibly the strongest features are Fast Healing and Pounce. Fast Healing means you never need out of combat healing, ever. Pounce means you can full attack on a charge.
I can't find where on the creating a feral creature template is tells me I get Fast Healing. Mind telling me where?
another thing you could try is a Sacred Fist, it fits the theme of a monk without itens to help.
If i am not mistaken, VOP monk works well with Kensai.
another thing you could try is a Sacred Fist, it fits the theme of a monk without itens to help.
No it doesn't, because you are never able to fly under your own power. At all. Ever.
Our DM is very treasure stingy, hence me taking VoP. But what makes the feral so absurdly overpowered for a +1 LA? And would it be good enough to slap on my monk? And I did get 14,14,14,14,16,16 as stats.
Thing about VoP is, it's ridiculously easy to fall under RAW.
20 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 10 int, 16 wis, 14 cha are my stats. Should I change these around somehow?
Switch Int and Cha and you'll be fine. See if you can play a Dwarf for extra Con.