Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 maculosa Sep 06, 2008 19:10:13	Hi, I've always played 2nd DD edition, but now we will start in 3.5 with a new DM. So now i need to create my characted and i want to be a Fighter. (i will be the only one in a group of 6 player) we will all start a level 1 I want to make a powerfull build, but i'm new with new rules, competence, Feats, prestige class etc... I can take advantage of any of the 3.5 books at long as it's an official book. I have the following stats : FOR: 17 DEX : 17 CON : 15 INT : 12 WIS : 12 CHA : 16 At first i tought of being a 2 Handed Greatsword Fighter, but i read about the Spiked Chain Fighter that look fun to play... Can you give me some advice with my character creation... what race should i get, what competence / feats i should take and which prestige class i shoud go or not... PS : Sorry for my bad english! Thanks for any help!
#2 kurashu Sep 06, 2008 19:47:35	The best fighter build? Any build that uses as little fighter as possible. Two levels is fine for feats. At most go six for dungeon crasher variant found in Dungeonscape. Dungeoncrasher is great in conjunction with Goliath and barbarian. Crusader, warblade and swordsage are all better fighters than the fighter. As are the cleric, druid and wildshape ranger. Psychic Warrior are on the list. Two handed fighting is easily the best fighting style for straight melee warriors and chargers. Two weapon fighting is good for warriors who can generate a lot of bonus damage (rogues). Spiked chain is great for trippers. It all depends on what type of warrior you want to build.
#3 maulorn Sep 06, 2008 20:35:39	I agree... Check out Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.
#4 maculosa Sep 06, 2008 20:51:42	Well maybe not the best built, i want to stay with fighter, not multiclassing, do not want to deal with magic. I'm new to 3.5 and never played with feats etc... so i want to keep thing simple and just have a great fighter which is fun to play... Spiked Chain Fighter interest me. I would like to know which feats i should get and at witch lever i should get them to make an effective fighter. (playing human to get more feats) Thanks I found this build somewhere but maybe it can be improved ? Spiked chain Fighter -Fighter 1 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip -Fighter 2 Weapon Focus (spiked chain) -Fighter 3 Power Attack -Fighter 4 Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) -Fighter 5 - -Fighter 6 Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes -Fighter 6/Exotic Weapon Master 1 -; exotic reach -Fighter 6/Exotic Weapon Master 2 -; trip attack -Fighter 6/Exotic Weapon Master 3 Dodge; flurry of strikes
#5 maulorn Sep 06, 2008 21:16:12	That is alright. Crusader/Swordsage/Warblade are single class and they are not magical. The difference between what that build is trying to attempt...and what you could do with ToB is big. Pretty much right now you are building a tripbot. With ToB you build a AoO monster. Now cool thing with what you are shooting for is that you can 2h your chain and get Str mod x1.5 as well as improve your power attack, adding double the penalty as a bonus to damage. You can prolly change Lightning Reflexes for something else. Your Ref save will not be bad due to your dex...plus I do not think Iron Will or Lightning Ref is on the bonus feat list for warriors.
#6 bauglir Sep 06, 2008 22:06:12	ToB does use similar mechanics in Maneuvers vs Spells. This isn't a bad thing, but it might not be just for flavor reasons that the OP wants to avoid spellcasters.
#7 maculosa Sep 07, 2008 0:04:07	Well can you suggest a good build from the TOB ? Maybe a WarBlade suit better my needs? (not sure) WarBlades get new feats a some levels, those new one stack with the standard class feats + the humans bonus feats if playing an human... ?? if so that make a lot of feats.. Anyway what would you suggest to play... we should start to play monday and my character should be done before monday and i'm still very confused about making it! I think character creation in 3.5 is far more complex than in 2nd!
#8 CantripN Sep 07, 2008 0:33:24	Actually, it's simpler. In any case, a Warblade may well suit you and is very fun to play. For instance, this is a build I'd played in 2 games, at levels 1-12, and it's amazing at all of those.
#9 natzero Sep 08, 2008 10:34:49	i personally have decided my next fighter build is gunna be scimitar / light shield fighter. at 1st lvl as a human he will be sitting on: 1st: Shield Specialization Human: Imp Shield Bash Fighter1: Agile Shield Fighter nxt 2 lvls for idea Fighter2: Weapon Focus (scim) 3rd: Combat Focus etc with shield sling, and imp crit, slashing flurry, etc i believe a sword n board fighter can be fun to play, and since im in a heavy rp game i personally look for more interesting and non 'optimized' builds. Im trying to turn from there and fluff out more but ya theres my 2 cents if u lokin for opt listen to these guys they know what they r talkin about spike chain > all
#10 maulorn Sep 08, 2008 10:39:01	Crusader is also very nice... Get feats like Combat Reflex + Stand Still to start...use a reach weapon...and have fun. Standstill is in the exp psionics, yet it is not a psionic feat. It does not have to be a spiked chain, granted you can use it when people get within 5', yet it also takes a feat. Using a different sort of reach weapon like a polearm, you would just need to reposition which is not hard at all. I like Crusader over Warblade for the simple fact that the class is built to take punishment. Warblade does have more HD, yet Crusader is very awesome for being able to delay damage and also increasing damage done with the punishment you take. To me it plays a lot like a MMO tank as you can really keep people off of other group members... Pretty much what you are building for is Battlefield control. You greatly limit people's mobility stopping them from getting past you to pound on other group members. Those that do decide to attack others get punished even worse. With Crusader, you get some healing capabilities that help you stand up longer and could help other group members in a pinch. With Warblade you get some pretty nasty damage capabilities. As a Warblade you are going to need to dip crusader regardless for Thicket of Blades... Nat I do like shield spec + the other things you can get with that feat.
#11 natzero Sep 08, 2008 10:59:23	ya maul i was flipping through it here lemme give you my xperimental breakdown to lvl 16 (this is my backup char for current campaign) a ? means its not 100% decided yet 1st: shield spec Hum: imp shield bash F1: Agile Shield Fighter F2: Weapon Focus (scim) 3rd: Combat Focus (13 wis needed) F4: weapon spec (scim) 6th: combat stability F6: combat reflexes 8th: melee weapon mastery (slashing) 9th: imp crit (scim) F10: combat vigor 12th: shield ward or armor specialization (breastplate) ? F12: defensive sweep ? F14: slashing flurry 15th: shield sling F16: these last 2 are being decided. essentially you attack with 15-20 scim, then shield bash every round. u have +8 (+ ur shields bonus) vs bullrush, trip, disarm, grapple, overrun. fast healing 4. + 4 will saves, and dr/2 if armor spec is chosen. also u can throw ur shield 20 ft. (im thinkin distance/returning chants) and i also plan on gettin the shield enchanted with a 3/day ray of enfeeblement usable on a shield bash attempt. lemme know what you guys think of any of this and guy that is askin bout 3.5 fighter (dont listen to them fighter owns) the 3.0 - 3.5 fighter is the class that can be the most different things, thats y i love it so
#12 maulorn Sep 08, 2008 11:18:20	The only problem with using a shield as a weapon is that it will take away some of the defense that it provides... I honestly considered the AoO Crusader w/o reach...instead going into shield spec and using sword and board. A lot of people like AoO expert with reach but with a crusader what does it matter? It is good having the monster up in your face smacking you, because A) You can take the damage, B) You smack back harder... I would not worry about making your shield a weapon. Granted it would be funny if you have two shields and use one for a weapon and one for defense...lol. If you take out some of the feats that make the shield a better weapon, you are left with the shield being awesome defense...and those feats that make the shield a better weapon hinder the shield being a better defense when it is being used as a weapon. Instead maybe seek either improving defense or improving offense in another way... I would look at Standstill (eph)...Robilar's Gambit (phbII)...These would give you some nice synergy (especially Standstill)...with Defensive Sweep. Do not get me wrong I personally like the various potential of fighter...yet with the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords...it gives you the same feel as playing a fighter, with even more options and more potential.
#13 natzero Sep 08, 2008 11:20:33	maul, imp shield bash allows me to keep my armor bonus even after i bash with it. :0 so wit my lets say +2 l metal shield i have a +5 armor bonus aswell as a total of +13 vs bullrush, overrun, grapple, trip, and disarm. aswell as a d6 bash every round at a -2. i thot out the losing shield bonus to ac issue and found out its an easy fix at lvl 1 ;)
#14 maulorn Sep 08, 2008 11:26:32	Would you be able to maintain the improved defense when throwing? Also would it allow you to have the benefits against bullrush, etc etc when you shield bash...or do you just maintain the armor bonus? Also look at Shield Charge and Shield Slam from Complete Warrior.
#15 natzero Sep 08, 2008 11:35:51	obviously i would not have the shield bonus after throwing the weapon, but its rlly a flavor thing plus i can use it as a trip attempt at range. with returning i would get my bonus back the next round but i would only use it when not in melee. and i see nowhere in phb1 or 2 that i lose my other bonuses other than AC normally so i dont see why i would. As long as i still have the shield bonus i have it equipped and therefore imho would gain the other while equipped bonuses. good question tho, if you see otherwise please tell me. imma look up those two feats you listed in CW right now. also not only do i add my shield bonus to all the aforementioned rolls(bullrush, etc) its added to my touch AC ;)
#16 maulorn Sep 08, 2008 11:38:44	Ya the problem is Imp Shield Bash is in PHB I...and the Shield Spec chain is in PHBII so there is no way for Imp Shield Bash to account for other crap in PHB II. Your logic is sound though and I think I would have to agree.
#17 natzero Sep 08, 2008 11:41:45	one question i just realized.. does my weapon focus (scim) + weapon spec (scim) stack with melee weapon mastery (slashing)? so +3 hit +4 dmg? or just +2 + 2?
#18 maulorn Sep 08, 2008 11:49:14	Not sure... On a sidenote though if you put shield razors it will make your shield bash slash... Razored Heavy Shield, 1d6dmg, x2 crit, Slash (Underdark p 64) +50gp Could also masterwork them or enchant them seperately...wounding seems fitting...lol
#19 natzero Sep 08, 2008 12:12:01	wow thats actually a great idea with my melee weapon mastery feat.. itll give my shield + 2 hit and dmg since its slashing lol balances the -2 hit for offhand attk ty maul ;) i have to roll this char now, u realize that if we went dwarf, he would have a + 17 bonus vs bullrush, grapple, disarm, trip, and overrun.... at lvl 16 with only a +2 light shield.
#20 tshern Sep 08, 2008 12:18:32	Archerpwr's signature has this.
#21 natzero Sep 08, 2008 20:21:22	no this thread cannot die... fighter awsomeness thread live on ..
#22 idontmuchcareforit Sep 09, 2008 13:40:26	I have a tripper sigged, enjoy.