Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zeferous Feb 28, 2012 18:09:59	I would like to make a balanced knight for a new campaign im playing in. I dont want to focus only on damage or defense because we have a fair balance of both right now. For stats i can go however i please high strength con and charisma. I would prefer not to multiclass unless it is really worth it. Any suggestions?
#2 Maat_Mons Feb 28, 2012 18:49:13	Bulwark of defense and vigilant defender are good for stopping enemy movement. Exotic weapon proficiency (spiked chain), improved trip, and combat reflexes are the usual feats for this. The stand still feat (Expanded Psionics Handbook) can be used instead of improved trip if you can't count on being bigger and stronger than your enemies. I assume you intend to use a shield. In this case a kusari-gama (Dungeon Master's Guide, p144) or spinning sword (Secrets of Sarlona) can be used instead of a spiked chain.
#3 zeferous Feb 28, 2012 19:30:53	okay thanks. anything else i can do to get some more damage?
#4 deoxhydroxinate Feb 29, 2012 0:09:03	If ToB is allowed, using Crusader and picking up Thicket of Blades is a good option. If you've got a decent dex, using Combat Reflexes for more AoOs in conjunction with the feats Maat mentioned, you'll be in pretty good shape for locking someone down and dealing plenty of damage.   Tome of Battle in general will give you additional defense and damage to help round you out.
#5 zeferous Mar 01, 2012 16:10:01	Okay thanks. My friend wants to pick the best "Good-guy, bruiser" he could. Any suggestions for him?
#6 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 01, 2012 19:56:48	The best advice to give about a knight is simply to not play one, really. The only really good abilities they get are Bulwark of Defense and Vigilant Defender. Realistically, Bulwark prevents targets you threaten from taking 5' steps, and Vigilant Defender makes it harder to use Tumble to evade AoOs. They're avalilable respectively at levels 3 and 5 a class which really doesn't provide that much of a kick on its own. Compare those abilities to Thicket of Blades, which is available at level 5 to crusaders, and is available to everyone else at some of the later points via Martial Stance. This ability allows you to make AoOs in response to Tumble (regardless of their check result) and against 5' steps.  In essence, it subsumes the best abilities the knight has, and it's just one facet of their class. The remaining facets of the knight are the challenge mechanics - which are mostly meant to force enemies to target you. They do so in an awkward manner, but they work (and it's sad, but they've got the best implementation of a code in any code-driven class). Sadly, you get the best of those as well with the crusader, since pretty much all of Devoted Spirit is based around punishing the enemy if they don't attack you. It's a lot more open in its design (i.e. it doesn't force the target to take any specific action). There's a lot of other options for "good guy bruiser" beyond Knight. Knight may look good, but it has a lot going against it. The usual suggestion, as you can guess, is to go Crusader, but even a stock Fighter can out-Knight the Knight. The question is how dynamic you want to be, how forgiving you want the build to be, and what books are open to you.
#7 zeferous Mar 04, 2012 10:08:54	Thanks, i think im still going to put one in my campaign because im making a party of virtuous warriors, but i dont plan on actually making him good anymore
#8 Tempest_Stormwind Mar 04, 2012 11:16:40	Thanks, i think im still going to put one in my campaign because im making a party of virtuous warriors, but i dont plan on actually making him good anymore Why not? You're a party of virtuous warriors playing in an heroic fantasy game. I'd assume that in a team consisting of Fergus mac Róich, Beowulf, Húrin, and Musashi, you'd be a better fit if you were playing Sir Lancelot rather than Don Quixote. What I was trying to say is that 3e in general doesn't really tie "class" to a character concept. Rather, classes are components used to bring a concept to life. The idea of the "knight" perfectly matches onto the Fighter, Paladin and Crusader, among others, as well as to the class named "Knight". The problem is, the class named "Knight" is mechanically inferior to the others - in much the same way that the class named "Samurai" is mechanically inferior to the stock Fighter. (Just to be clear, the Knight is much better than the Samurai and can actually be reasonably useful, but only in situations that directly cater to his strengths and if those strengths don't overlap with the rest of the team. Meanwhile, other "knight"-type classes can avoid this situation - particularly the crusader.) You can take your idea of a knight - i.e. a virtuous warrior clad in armor, probably skilled on horseback, capable of protecting others - and realize that with many, many classes or combinations of classes. These alternative realizations can be far more effective - to the point where they will support the team instead of being dead weight - and thus you will have a better chance against what the game will throw at you. Of course, if your goal is NOT to play a "knight" but rather to use the specific mechanics of a single-classed member of the "Knight" class, all of this is for naught. I'd suggest focusing on one aspect of the knight - mounted combat, heavy armor + shield, the knight's challenge, or threatened area lockdowns - and build around that, rather than trying to do all of them. Personally I'd go with the challenge, since other members of your team can probably do threatened area lockdowns better than you but no one can do the specific powers of the knight's challenge except a knight. (The lockdown is probably stronger, and doesn't require much beyond a reach weapon and perhaps Combat Reflexes to work, though, so I wouldn't neglect it.)
#9 zeferous Mar 04, 2012 15:43:04	I didnt mean that i wouldnt try to make him good haha (although i probably said that) but i wasnt going to EXPECT as much from him.