3.5 prestige class for multiclass rogue monk to be Batman? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 prestige class for multiclass rogue monk to be Batman?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
midnitesmask
Jun 06, 2012 16:41:29 We are getting ready to play a game of 3.5 D&D, and I am planning on playing a rogue/monk multiclass. Mostly so I can be Batman. I am wondering if there is a prestige class that would still give me my sneak attack bonus, as well as monk abilities. Or if there is one that would just let me be more like Batman, lol. Any suggestions and which book it would be in would be awesome. Thanks.
#2
awaken_D_M_golem
Jun 06, 2012 16:50:46 " ... Batman ... " has a very specific coinage around here.
It refers to the utility belt Wizard 20 , and is perhaps the
most powerful basic build in the game.

Human Rogue 1 or Feat Rogue 1 / Wizard 19
with Able Learner feat ... is a standard build.

Mixing in Monk, hmm?
Human Feat Rogue 1 / Psion 7 / Monk 1 / Psion +X
with Able Learner feat and Tashalatora feat.

Arcane Trickster PrC is in the DMG.
It isn't quite the dish, compared to the more powerful
caster based stuff you can do. But it is do-able.
#3
Maat_Mons
Jun 06, 2012 17:23:28
The tashalatora feat (Secrets of Sarlona) lets you stack your monk levels with a psionic class to determine AC, flurry, and unarmed damage. You could pair that with psychic rogue. The carmandine monk feat (Champions of Valor) or the kung fu genius feat (Dragon Compendium) would let you use int instead of wis for your AC bonus.
#4
midnitesmask
Jun 07, 2012 12:45:28 @awaken D_M_golem. Ya, I see Batman as a monk type character because he really doesn't wear much in the way of armor, and is a master of hand to hand combat and monk would give me some massive unarmed damage in the long run. I also see rogue because of how well he blends in with shadows, has a good skill list, and the sneak attack. I don't know so much about bringing in wizard, but that is an interesting idea.

@Maat_Mons. That psychic rogue looks very interesting, but I have no experience playing psychic, played everything else but them. I might have to research it more. I do however like the idea of switching my int for wis, that would probably help immensly with my skill list, while still keeping a good ac.

Thanks so far guys, interesting ideas and a good start. I might just go straight monk, rogue and skip a prestige class. Was just wondering if there was one that would fit my needs.
#5
ObsidianConspiracy
Jun 07, 2012 15:57:25 Could always try factotum with a monk's belt/improved unarmed strike tree. For the oldschool batman who always has something for a situation, fluff that as your inspiration points 'Ah here's my anti-shark spray' etc.

Or Thug variant fighter, with a level of monk to get the AC bonus if you want, then Thug afterwards, which nets you full BAB, feats and skill points. Can even use the substitution to get Sneak attack instead
#6
midnitesmask
Jun 07, 2012 16:28:31 @ObsidianConspiracy, this "oldschool" Batman you refer to is a stain upon the whole mythology, lol. No, not going campy Batman, but thanks. Was thinking more of the thiefy thug type, but not Frank Miller thug. I like the idea of doing thug with the monk. In what book do I find the thug, or where at? And how would I do the substitution to get sneak attack? Is that a feat thing, first I have heard it. Wanna make sure I get all the sneak attack I can with being able to do damage with unarmed. And what is a factotum? Man I thought I had played a decent amout of 3.5, but you are just straight up schooling me. Musta been the 4th edition rotting my brain, lol.
#7
draco1119
Jun 07, 2012 17:25:25
@ObsidianConspiracy, this "oldschool" Batman you refer to is a stain upon the whole mythology, lol. No, not going campy Batman, but thanks. Was thinking more of the thiefy thug type, but not Frank Miller thug. I like the idea of doing thug with the monk. In what book do I find the thug, or where at? And how would I do the substitution to get sneak attack? Is that a feat thing, first I have heard it. Wanna make sure I get all the sneak attack I can with being able to do damage with unarmed. And what is a factotum? Man I thought I had played a decent amout of 3.5, but you are just straight up schooling me. Musta been the 4th edition rotting my brain, lol.

The thug and SA fighter variants are in Unearthed Arcana; Factotum is in Dungeonscape.
#8
midnitesmask
Jun 08, 2012 9:47:01 thank you draco1119. I knew the warrior class was in unearthed arcana, but an old friend of mine had it and I never really looked at it. That makes sense thug would be there as well.
#9
bwoodfield
Jun 08, 2012 15:30:18 First level take rogue to get your skills up and take "Kung Fu Genius" as a feat.

Kung Fu Genius (Dragon Magazine 319 P71)
Prerequisite:
Intelligence 13 Must be taken before or at the same time as gaining Monk level 1st
Description:
Use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for all Monk class abilities normally based on Wisdom.

This will allow you to have a high Dex and a High Int to get your skills, without having to take the high wisdom for the monk.

To get Monk and Rogue together you will need to take "Monastic Training" else you can no longer take levels in Monk once you take a level in rogue.
#10
draco1119
Jun 08, 2012 16:23:30
To get Monk and Rogue together you will need to take "Monastic Training" else you can no longer take levels in Monk once you take a level in rogue.

Ascetic Rogue (Complete Adventurer) is a better option.
#11
midnitesmask
Jun 08, 2012 16:38:05 @bwoodfield, I knew that about monk, once you level up in another level you are done. I don't know what level we are starting out, so was thinking about just doing half my level in rogue and half in monk if we started at a high enough level like my buddy is talking about, until I hit my prestige class, if I can find one that fits. Kung Fu genius would be nice. Then I could also maybe take weapon finesse for my atk to hit. So I would be using only dex @ int for everything, except for str for damage. But I think there is an obscure feat out there that would make it to where I could change what I use to deal damage. What book is monastic training in? that would be a helpful feat as well.

@draco1119, I will have to look at Ascetic Rogue, I have access to that book.

These are all really great ideas and I appreciate all of them very much. Any ideas for prestige classes? Or do you think I should just forget about one? Didn't know if there was one out there that combined the best of rogue & monk.
#12
draco1119
Jun 08, 2012 19:52:30
But I think there is an obscure feat out there that would make it to where I could change what I use to deal damage. What book is monastic training in? that would be a helpful feat as well.

@draco1119, I will have to look at Ascetic Rogue, I have access to that book.

These are all really great ideas and I appreciate all of them very much. Any ideas for prestige classes? Or do you think I should just forget about one? Didn't know if there was one out there that combined the best of rogue & monk.

Monastic Training is a more general, less helpful (for you) version of Ascetic Rogue. AR lets you multi-class monk/rogue and allows some abilities to get stacked betweeen your class levels. Monastic Training allows you to generally multi-class monk/whatever, with no ability stacking.
For Dex to Damage, check out X Stat to Y Ability. If Tome of Battle is available, that has a feat called Shadow Blade that lets you add Str + Dex to damage with limited weapons. It also has (probably) the best option for a monk/rogue PrC in the Shadow Sun Ninja, though the swordsage (rather than rogue) is a far better way to get there.
#13
StevenO
Jun 09, 2012 13:56:00 Speaking of ToB I may not be entirely familiar with it and its newer mechanics (I did finally get it however) but at least one board memeber says that the Swordsage can out-monk a Monk and IIRC some of its maneuvers are very rogue-like.
#14
Krusk
Jun 10, 2012 12:48:51 What awaken D_M_golem meant was that "Building Batman" has specific connotations to 3.5 optimization. It implies you are a generalist wizard 20 which is generally considered among the most powerful classes around, if not the most powerful class.

What you want is to build a PC inspired by batman, which is a such a minor distinction I'm not sure why DM Golem bothered mentioning it, as it was clear what you meant.

I believe there is an ascetic feat in complete adventurer that stacks monk and rogue stuff.

But really a swordsage is basically a monk who isn't terrible. play a swordsage 20, and you will be into it. Make sure to take the unarmed variant described after the main class in the sidebar. Monks aren't a strong class, and don't multiclass paticulalrly well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 midnitesmask Jun 06, 2012 16:41:29	We are getting ready to play a game of 3.5 D&D, and I am planning on playing a rogue/monk multiclass. Mostly so I can be Batman. I am wondering if there is a prestige class that would still give me my sneak attack bonus, as well as monk abilities. Or if there is one that would just let me be more like Batman, lol. Any suggestions and which book it would be in would be awesome. Thanks.
#2 awaken_D_M_golem Jun 06, 2012 16:50:46	" ... Batman ... " has a very specific coinage around here. It refers to the utility belt Wizard 20 , and is perhaps the most powerful basic build in the game. Human Rogue 1 or Feat Rogue 1 / Wizard 19 with Able Learner feat ... is a standard build. Mixing in Monk, hmm? Human Feat Rogue 1 / Psion 7 / Monk 1 / Psion +X with Able Learner feat and Tashalatora feat. Arcane Trickster PrC is in the DMG. It isn't quite the dish, compared to the more powerful caster based stuff you can do. But it is do-able.
#3 Maat_Mons Jun 06, 2012 17:23:28	The tashalatora feat (Secrets of Sarlona) lets you stack your monk levels with a psionic class to determine AC, flurry, and unarmed damage. You could pair that with psychic rogue. The carmandine monk feat (Champions of Valor) or the kung fu genius feat (Dragon Compendium) would let you use int instead of wis for your AC bonus.
#4 midnitesmask Jun 07, 2012 12:45:28	@awaken D_M_golem. Ya, I see Batman as a monk type character because he really doesn't wear much in the way of armor, and is a master of hand to hand combat and monk would give me some massive unarmed damage in the long run. I also see rogue because of how well he blends in with shadows, has a good skill list, and the sneak attack. I don't know so much about bringing in wizard, but that is an interesting idea. @Maat_Mons. That psychic rogue looks very interesting, but I have no experience playing psychic, played everything else but them. I might have to research it more. I do however like the idea of switching my int for wis, that would probably help immensly with my skill list, while still keeping a good ac. Thanks so far guys, interesting ideas and a good start. I might just go straight monk, rogue and skip a prestige class. Was just wondering if there was one that would fit my needs.
#5 ObsidianConspiracy Jun 07, 2012 15:57:25	Could always try factotum with a monk's belt/improved unarmed strike tree. For the oldschool batman who always has something for a situation, fluff that as your inspiration points 'Ah here's my anti-shark spray' etc. Or Thug variant fighter, with a level of monk to get the AC bonus if you want, then Thug afterwards, which nets you full BAB, feats and skill points. Can even use the substitution to get Sneak attack instead
#6 midnitesmask Jun 07, 2012 16:28:31	@ObsidianConspiracy, this "oldschool" Batman you refer to is a stain upon the whole mythology, lol. No, not going campy Batman, but thanks. Was thinking more of the thiefy thug type, but not Frank Miller thug. I like the idea of doing thug with the monk. In what book do I find the thug, or where at? And how would I do the substitution to get sneak attack? Is that a feat thing, first I have heard it. Wanna make sure I get all the sneak attack I can with being able to do damage with unarmed. And what is a factotum? Man I thought I had played a decent amout of 3.5, but you are just straight up schooling me. Musta been the 4th edition rotting my brain, lol.
#7 draco1119 Jun 07, 2012 17:25:25	@ObsidianConspiracy, this "oldschool" Batman you refer to is a stain upon the whole mythology, lol. No, not going campy Batman, but thanks. Was thinking more of the thiefy thug type, but not Frank Miller thug. I like the idea of doing thug with the monk. In what book do I find the thug, or where at? And how would I do the substitution to get sneak attack? Is that a feat thing, first I have heard it. Wanna make sure I get all the sneak attack I can with being able to do damage with unarmed. And what is a factotum? Man I thought I had played a decent amout of 3.5, but you are just straight up schooling me. Musta been the 4th edition rotting my brain, lol. The thug and SA fighter variants are in Unearthed Arcana; Factotum is in Dungeonscape.
#8 midnitesmask Jun 08, 2012 9:47:01	thank you draco1119. I knew the warrior class was in unearthed arcana, but an old friend of mine had it and I never really looked at it. That makes sense thug would be there as well.
#9 bwoodfield Jun 08, 2012 15:30:18	First level take rogue to get your skills up and take "Kung Fu Genius" as a feat. Kung Fu Genius (Dragon Magazine 319 P71) Prerequisite: Intelligence 13 Must be taken before or at the same time as gaining Monk level 1st Description: Use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier for all Monk class abilities normally based on Wisdom. This will allow you to have a high Dex and a High Int to get your skills, without having to take the high wisdom for the monk. To get Monk and Rogue together you will need to take "Monastic Training" else you can no longer take levels in Monk once you take a level in rogue.
#10 draco1119 Jun 08, 2012 16:23:30	To get Monk and Rogue together you will need to take "Monastic Training" else you can no longer take levels in Monk once you take a level in rogue. Ascetic Rogue (Complete Adventurer) is a better option.
#11 midnitesmask Jun 08, 2012 16:38:05	@bwoodfield, I knew that about monk, once you level up in another level you are done. I don't know what level we are starting out, so was thinking about just doing half my level in rogue and half in monk if we started at a high enough level like my buddy is talking about, until I hit my prestige class, if I can find one that fits. Kung Fu genius would be nice. Then I could also maybe take weapon finesse for my atk to hit. So I would be using only dex @ int for everything, except for str for damage. But I think there is an obscure feat out there that would make it to where I could change what I use to deal damage. What book is monastic training in? that would be a helpful feat as well. @draco1119, I will have to look at Ascetic Rogue, I have access to that book. These are all really great ideas and I appreciate all of them very much. Any ideas for prestige classes? Or do you think I should just forget about one? Didn't know if there was one out there that combined the best of rogue & monk.
#12 draco1119 Jun 08, 2012 19:52:30	But I think there is an obscure feat out there that would make it to where I could change what I use to deal damage. What book is monastic training in? that would be a helpful feat as well. @draco1119, I will have to look at Ascetic Rogue, I have access to that book. These are all really great ideas and I appreciate all of them very much. Any ideas for prestige classes? Or do you think I should just forget about one? Didn't know if there was one out there that combined the best of rogue & monk. Monastic Training is a more general, less helpful (for you) version of Ascetic Rogue. AR lets you multi-class monk/rogue and allows some abilities to get stacked betweeen your class levels. Monastic Training allows you to generally multi-class monk/whatever, with no ability stacking. For Dex to Damage, check out X Stat to Y Ability. If Tome of Battle is available, that has a feat called Shadow Blade that lets you add Str + Dex to damage with limited weapons. It also has (probably) the best option for a monk/rogue PrC in the Shadow Sun Ninja, though the swordsage (rather than rogue) is a far better way to get there.
#13 StevenO Jun 09, 2012 13:56:00	Speaking of ToB I may not be entirely familiar with it and its newer mechanics (I did finally get it however) but at least one board memeber says that the Swordsage can out-monk a Monk and IIRC some of its maneuvers are very rogue-like.
#14 Krusk Jun 10, 2012 12:48:51	What awaken D_M_golem meant was that "Building Batman" has specific connotations to 3.5 optimization. It implies you are a generalist wizard 20 which is generally considered among the most powerful classes around, if not the most powerful class. What you want is to build a PC inspired by batman, which is a such a minor distinction I'm not sure why DM Golem bothered mentioning it, as it was clear what you meant. I believe there is an ascetic feat in complete adventurer that stacks monk and rogue stuff. But really a swordsage is basically a monk who isn't terrible. play a swordsage 20, and you will be into it. Make sure to take the unarmed variant described after the main class in the sidebar. Monks aren't a strong class, and don't multiclass paticulalrly well.