This is all assuming my calculations are correct.
Race: Marrulurk (Sandstorm 170)
3 Mon HD
+1 LA
Templates: Dark (Tome of Magic 158)
+1 LA
(DM allows buyoff)
(Note, DM also breaks down monstrous HD into levels)
Progression: Rogue 1 > Marrulurk 3 > Rogue 1 > Swash 1 > Rogue 2 > Fighter 1 > Rogue 3 > Swash 1 > Rogue 2 > Fighter 1 > Rogue 4
(Marrulurk 3/Rogue 13/Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 2)
Stats:
(Rolled for stats, DM generous, and I rolled very well)
STR: 16
DEX: 18 + 6(Racial) + 6 item + 5 levels + 5 tome = 40
CON: 16 + 4(Racial) + 4 item = 24
INT: 18
WIS: 16 + 6(Racial) + 4 item =26
CHA: 13 + 4(Racial) + 1 item = 18
Flaws:
Light Sensitivity
Hot-Blooded (spell dmg offset by Cold resist in Dark template)
Feats:
(Racial Bonus): Point Blank Shot
(Racial Bonus): Rapid Shot
(Bonus) Weapon Finesse
(Flaw): Two Weapon Fighting
(Flaw): Craven
1st lvl: Darkstalker
3rd lvl: Combat Reflexes
6th lvl: Improved Buckler Defence
Fighter 1: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9th lvl: Staggering Strike
12th lvl: Daring Outlaw
15th lvl: Robilar's Gambit
Fighter 2nd: Double Hit
18th lvl: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Saves:
Fort: 10 (base) + 7 (Abil) + 5 (Cloak) = +22
Reflex: 11 (base) + 15 (Abil) +3 (Grace) +5 (Cloak) = +34
Will: 7 (base) + 8 (Abil) + 5 (Cloak) +20
AC: 10 + 8(armor) + 6 (Shield) + 15 (Dex) + 1 (Size) + 7 (Natural) + 5 (Deflection) + 4 (Dodge) +9 (Insight) = 65
BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1
Full Attack: +30/+30/+25/+25/+20/+20/+15
(Flanking): +32/+32/+27/+27/+22/+22/+17
(Flanking + Weapons (+4 Keen Enfeebling Rapier of Subtlety and Speed, +4 Keen Enfeebling Kukri of Subtlety and Speed)):
+40/+40/+40/+40/+35/+35/+30/+30/+25
Damage per Hit:
Rapier: 1d4+11 +10d6+20 SA, 2 STR Damage, 1d6+2 STR Damage on crit (15-20 crit).
Kukri: 1d3+11 +10d6+20 SA, 2 STR Damage, 1d6+2 STR Damage on crit (15-20 crit).
Skills of note:
Escape artist: ~ +40
Hide: ~ +60 or more (Without invis)
Listen: ~ +32
Move Silently: ~ +55
Open Lock: ~ +45
Spot: ~ +31
Tumble: ~ +27
Class/Racial/Template Abilities of note:
Discriminating Hearing (Auditory scent of sorts)
Hide in Plain Sight
Darkvision
Superior Low Light Vision
Resist Fire 5
Resist Cold 10
Opportunist
Crippling Strike
Penetrating Strike (ACF)
Gold spent to get stats/skills to this point: ~ 673,000
Items include:
Monks Belt
Ring of Deflection +5
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Bracers of Armor +8
Any advice on further optmization would be greatly appreciated! =)
Replace most of Rogue levels with Swashbuckler
Gives Wpn Finesse as bonus and 3 lvls Sw adds Int mod to damage with those types of weapons.
Swashbuckler gives full BaB
Take Daring Oulaw feat to have R and Sw lvls stack for determing SA dice
Improved Buckler Defence? Don't see that being worthwhile
Is ToB allowed?
Is ToB allowed?
That is my question, also.
Throw in a couple levels of swordsage and the Shadowblade feat, if so.Crippling Strike, Opportunist, and Penetrating strike...
I see the advantage of swashbuckler, with the d10 and the max BAB, but with my current progression, and that idea, I'd need to dip a minimum of at least one level in rogue, at 0 BAB putting my final BAB at 19.
Only 3 above my current BAB
I also lose uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, as well as evasion...
Admittedly it has some nice features, but not really worth losing the core of my character.
The logic behind Imp Buckler Defence is that I will undoubtedly be fighting with 2 hands in almost every encounter, and +6 to my AC for one feat seems like a fair trade to me. That and I was getting low on feats left to slap on him. lol
Yes, ToB is allowed.
Thanks for the input by the way, keep it coming.
Edit: Nevermind. Just spotted you are adding the Dark template.
Why not just use the continuous collar that gives the template for free?
brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
2. "use HIPS to get optimal flanking position/assassinate"
So, you're attacking while HiPS; you're only using HiPS to get in position?
3. "SA dps"
...you mean just DPS. Does it have to be sneak-attack damage?
4. I'm not sure what enfeebling is.
5. 3 levels of Fighter? 3? Maybe you'd like the "Daring Warrior" feat?
6. "STR: 16" "VERY high strength damage/round"
Strength damage? I hope you mean strength-score ability-damage.
Why you've even the title of the thread as "3.5 Rogue (Flanker/STR Damager)"!
7. "Race: Marrulurk (Sandstorm 170)
...
3 Mon HD
+2 LA (DM allows buyoff)
(Note, DM also breaks down monstrous HD into levels)"
So, you take all the abilities at once and you're forced to go through them, not as a monster class?
8. "DEX: 18 + 6(Racial) + 6 item + 5 levels + 5 tome = 40"
re: tome: Candles of Invocation are cheaper, than tomes.
9. With racial bonus feats like "Point Blank Shot" and "Rapid Shot", why don't you specialize in ranged attacks?
10. Darkstalker is a Fighter Bonus Feat? I'm checking.
lolno
12.
13.
14. The "continuous collar that gives the template for free" that Ithamar, in the post above me, speaks of is the Continuous Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (CoUM). The continuous version costs more.
15. The Targetteer Specialist Fighter variant from Dragon Magazine can get the "Vital Aim" special ability that adds DEX to ranged attack damage. The Dead Eye feat from Dragon Compendium, Volume I can add DEX to ranged attack damage. The Hit-and-Run Tactics Fighter variant from Drow of the Underdark can add DEX to damage against targets denied their DEX bonus to AC within 30 ft. Not only that, ranged weapons automatically use DEX to hit as opposed to Strength as melee weapons do.
16. In the same section of Specialist Fighter variants, just take the "Survivalist" to get "Hide" (and "Move Silently"?) as class-skills. For Fighter levels, if you are Human, you could take the "Able Learner" feat for skills.
17. (read after responding) REALLY? That's why you're not taking advantage of your inherent racial bonus feats? THAT'S your big reason? Well...
If I repeat any advice (of anyone else), it's because I'm doing this sequentially and haven't gone through the entire thread yet.
2. "use HIPS to get optimal flanking position/assassinate"
So, you're attacking while HiPS; you're only using HiPS to get in position?
I'm using HiPS for sniping at lower levels (thus taking advantage of my racial feats), I'm using it to get surprise rounds, I'm using it to get position, I'm using it to re-hide when I need to, and a plethora of other reasons why HiPS is good.
3. "SA dps"
...you mean just DPS. Does it have to be sneak-attack damage?
No, it doesn't have to be sneak-attack damage, I just said that because the majority by a large margin of my DPS comes from sneak-attack. Fixed.
4. I'm not sure what enfeebling is.
Enfeebling (BoED 113) is a weapon enchant (+1) that, on a critical hit does 1d6+2 strength damage.
5. 3 levels of Fighter? 3? Maybe you'd like the "Daring Warrior" feat?
I believe you misread it, understandable, If you'll tally the total levels written individually you'll note they equal over 20. This is a 20th level build, I posted what level of that particular class I would be after each progression. I will change to make it easier to read.
6. "STR: 16" "VERY high strength damage/round"
Strength damage? I hope you mean strength-score ability-damage.
Why you've even the title of the thread as "3.5 Rogue (Flanker/STR Damager)"!
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Yes, I do mean strength-score ability-damage. I figured the 16 strength, emphasis on crippling strike, and enfeebling would clarify that, but if I can I'll retitle to again make more clear.
7. "Race: Marrulurk (Sandstorm 170)
...
3 Mon HD
+2 LA (DM allows buyoff)
(Note, DM also breaks down monstrous HD into levels)"
So, you take all the abilities at once and you're forced to go through them, not as a monster class?
No, the DM broke the level progression of the race into levels (1 HD->1 LA->1 HD->1 HD), which I could take when I wished. The main reason I cared is so I could get my rogue level first, thusly getting 8+int x 4 skills @ first level instead of the standard monstrous skills @ first level.
8. "DEX: 18 + 6(Racial) + 6 item + 5 levels + 5 tome = 40"
re: tome: Candles of Invocation are cheaper, than tomes.
Thanks for the tip, saving money is always good.
Do you have a link to the process involved with using the candle in that way?
9. With racial bonus feats like "Point Blank Shot" and "Rapid Shot", why don't you specialize in ranged attacks?
I could specialize in ranged attacks, but that wasn't where I wanted to go with this guy, you could argue I'm not playing to the strengths of the race by not going ranged, but this is where I want to go with him, and I'm aiming to optimize what I'm working with, but melee is the way I wish to build him.
10. Darkstalker is a Fighter Bonus Feat? I'm checking.
lolno
Good point, fixed.
11. Are you using Combat Reflexes FOR anything? Evasive Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, Karmic Strike, etc. I'm not sure if any of what I just guessed applies.
Robilar's Gambit, is the main reason. Though, on further consideration, while Robilar's Gambit is nice, affording me a gaurenteed x damage + 20d6 sneak attack+40 craven damage + strength score damage on every single attack they make against me, it does cost me 2 feats to get, and when I combine it with staggering strike, it loses some of it's edge, since staggering strike kind of prevents them from making more than one attack on me per round unless they can make an average DC 60 fort save. Then again, there's always the chance they get the first attack, but in that situation, chances are I wouldn't be in Rolibar's Gambit stance... uggh, something to think about.
12.You can nab "Weapon Finesse" with a one level dip in Swashbuckler.In that case, also nab the Arcane Stunt ACF from Complete Mage. Also, in that case, it may better to stay as Fighter 2 to mitigate multiclass XP penalties.
As stated above, I am Fighter 2, just wrote it funny. Don't worry, I know that any odd level of fighter is BAD. That one level dip in swashbuckler will also drop my sneak attack down a dice, and lower my two weak saves by 1 each, which all things considered, getting me a feat isn't that bad... but the Arcane Stunt ACF though, all that nets me is a blur for 5 rounds a day. Why not just get a ring of blinking?
13.The "Shadow Blade" feat from ToB adds DEX to damage with Shadow Hand weapons."Shadow Blade" can work as Weapon Finesse for the purposes of prereqs. On that note, "Evasive Reflexes" = Combat Reflexes.
Definitely worth looking into.
14. The "continuous collar that gives the template for free" that Ithamar, in the post above me, speaks of is the Continuous Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (CoUM). The continuous version costs more.
Again, a reasonably decent alternative, other than it being another thing that could get destroyed potentially hampering me. It'd definitely be worth considering if the DM didn't allow LA buyoff.
15. The Targetteer Specialist Fighter variant from Dragon Magazine can get the "Vital Aim" special ability that adds DEX to ranged attack damage. The Dead Eye feat from Dragon Compendium, Volume I can add DEX to ranged attack damage. The Hit-and-Run Tactics Fighter variant from Drow of the Underdark can add DEX to damage against targets denied their DEX bonus to AC within 30 ft. Not only that, ranged weapons automatically use DEX to hit as opposed to Strength as melee weapons do.
Alright, so you're getting close to selling me on going range.
This may sound stupid, but how do I ensure that I have SA on all my ranged attacks? Other than having an ally pin them. Hide doesn't give it to me, Invisibility doesn't give it to me, I'm sure there's a feat somewhere, but I can't think of it.
16. In the same section of Specialist Fighter variants, just take the "Survivalist" to get "Hide" (and "Move Silently"?) as class-skills. For Fighter levels, if you are Human, you could take the "Able Learner" feat for skills.
Looks like a decent variant, I'll look into that, no need to waste skill points.
17. (read after responding) REALLY? That's why you're not taking advantage of your inherent racial bonus feats? THAT'S your big reason? Well...
How very specific of you.
THAT is a good point
Note:
I don't have time right now to incorporate/research all the good ideas yet, as I have an exam in a few hours, but I will look into them later on tonight.
Again, keep em coming.
12. The Arcane Stunt ACF has other spells to choose from. Particularly, I've heard "Expeditious Retreat, Swift" used as in the CO Diary of a Factotum/Swashbuckler/Chameleon (basically, Ted or "Fontotum").
15. re: flat-footed insurance: I always thought it was granted with attacking while hidden. I'm researching it now.
Show
It is implied that invisibility denies your target's DEX bonus to AC.
"Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, a shadowdancer retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker."
Explicit here: www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#...
I can't find it.
"Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, a shadowdancer retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker."
Explicit here: www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#...
I can't find it.
Attacking from Hiding works, so long as they didn't spot you, because you're effectively invisible to that foe. They didn't see you, which is what Invisibility accomplishes.
Furthermore, is also explicitly states in the text for the hide skill under sniping that you can only make one attack from hiding if you want to try to re-hide again.
Granted, the question still stands (post/reply #13). My piece is that it works like the surprise-round.
[-0800 20/02/2010 Sat 16:41:42]
I answered it with excerpts from the "Rules Compendium". Check the thread.
Curmudgeon's words are controversial to me: no action to hide, but if you snipe, you now have to take a move action to hide. In any case, I suggest anyone to dip into Dragonfire Adept/Warlock and nab "Blend into Shadows" (DotU) to take the question of the action required from (the hands of) chance.
You know, the blend into shadows might just work...
Except you can only spend one swift action a round.
Which means it only nets you only one more attack...
Unless you're allowed to "pew pew pew pew pew pew hide" which I don't think my DM would go for, cause for him the question isn't just that I can't rehide after a full round action, but that also, once I shoot my first arrow, I'm no longer hidden, and the opponent is no longer flat-footed. That and the fact that I would need to be standing in magical darkness might give the wizard an idea as to where to shoot his fireball.
Though, your linking me to DotU may have netted me a feat.
Surprising Riposte from it, when you successfully feint a target in a round and do damage it is considered flat-footed until the next round, thus one good free action feint from the invisible blade's uncanny feint. Though, it requires combat refelxes (uggh, bad enough on a melee, let alone a ranger), Improved feint, Surprising Riposte itself (3 feats) and a 5 level dip into invisible blade, the SA dice of which won't go to the bow. =S
That said, we're a little off topic.
I did want to optimize him for melee, as he is.
I'm sure another time we could drum up an optimized ranged marrulurk.
2. re: "only nets you only more attack" [sic]: You mean one more sneak-attack? I just established that the target is denied their DEX bonus to AC for the entire turn.
3. "once I shoot my first arrow, I'm no longer hidden"
Running off of point 2, I would say that's not the case as long as you succeed on the subsequent, turn-ending Hide check. Else, one shall have to go by those "make a Hide check after each attack" rules posted in the GitP thread from the FAQ.
4. "the fact that I would need to be standing in magical darkness might give the wizard an idea as to where to shoot his fireball."
Invoke Darkness on a pebble. Swallow said pebble. Repeat every 10 minutes. Else, invoke Darkness everywhere.
By the way, I suppose one shall require "At Home in the Deep" if using visible magical Darkness too.
1. re: vetoed Sniping modification: That's fine, as long as you have the 5-foot step.
Of course.
2. re: "only nets you only more attack" [sic]: You mean one more sneak-attack? I just established that the target is denied their DEX bonus to AC for the entire turn.
Yes, I do mean sneak attack, and what have you established specifically that denies DEX for entire turn? Being hidden before the turn starts? I'd have to argue that with my DM, he'd probably counter that if someone stood there shooting arrows for 6 seconds you'd probably no longer be flat footed after the first one or two hit you, in the same way that they are no longer flat-footed if you strike them in melee after a feint, unless you have some ridiculous feat chain like the one ending in surprising riposte.
Like, I get that you'd be able to re-hide after the full attack, which is nice, but what keeps em flat footed specifically?
3. "once I shoot my first arrow, I'm no longer hidden"
Running off of point 2, I would say that's not the case as long as you succeed on the subsequent, turn-ending Hide check. Else, one shall have to go by those "make a Hide check after each attack" rules posted in the GitP thread from the FAQ.
Refer to my question for point 2
4. "the fact that I would need to be standing in magical darkness might give the wizard an idea as to where to shoot his fireball."
Invoke Darkness on a pebble. Swallow said pebble. Repeat every 10 minutes. Else, invoke Darkness everywhere.
Swallowing the pebble would work.
By the way, I suppose one shall require "At Home in the Deep" if using visible magical Darkness too.
Nah, I'd stick with point 4, no need to dip more feats when I don't have to.
I note though that you didn't notice / didn't pay attention to my last point. lol
This IS supposed to be a melee, I know you're trying to convince me to optimize my character to it's fullest,
what with the racial feats and all, but I DID want to make this guy melee.
Show
...I just wrote that while heavily distracted. That text is very visceral and now, eternal.
1. What I have established specifically that denies DEX for entire turn was mentioned in the middle of post #7, right after the time-stamp. I rules comp hide check says so word of godShow...I just wrote that while heavily distracted. That text is very visceral and now, eternal.
Show
In that case, even against an invisible attacker, wouldn't one reason that one would immediately flinch and dodge erratically?
Consider, in terms of how initiative is handled:
Consider, in terms of how initiative is handled:
Show
"At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed."
"Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC"
"Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC"
Mostly, as the DM said to me, *Time Stop* *Stack 3 AOE over-time save or dies*
Also, I've debated the comparison between hide and inititave flat-footedness till I was blue in the face
The DM is very specific about RAW in most cases, even if it doesn't always make sense, as long as it's not gamebreaking.
Also, the logic of 2 levels instead of 3, is that 2 is all it takes to get the feat required to stack rogue and swashbuckler levels for sneak attack, grace, and dodge.
3 levels however, would make me lose one of my rogue special abilities, both of which I plan to use.
In my mind, +4 to damage rolls isn't worth trading:
opportunist (2 attacks of opportunity/round, 20d6 SA dice @ max atk bonus, assuming my ally attacks my target)
or
crippling strike (and I'm not losing that.)
I've always thought it works exactly like your DM is saying: hiding basically does the same thing as the 2nd level invisibility, not the 4th level (greater) one. That's how I've seen most other DMs handle it, also.
And Time Stop? What level are you playing at, again? At that point, you should have Contingencies and options to use Immediate actions of your own via Use Magic Device ranks.
"If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another
creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you." - Rules Comp.
Sweet, I found more evidence!
"If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another
creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you." - Rules Comp.
Which I've always taken to be hogwash, since it contradicts the rules about invisible attackers. If you buy that, then a hidden attacker is worse than an invisible one, which is crap...
It also doesn't say that you're still hidden after the first attack.
And this is from the same book that stupidly says that Antimagic Field doesn't block line of effect.
I guess if you can still hide with the -20 penalty for hiding while attacking, then you could deny their dex for all attacks.
It’s practically impossible (-20 penalty) to hide while attacking
Alrighty, so the direction I'm going with this rogue is to use HIPS to get optimal flanking position/assassinate, synergize with allies, and aim for getting high end DPS. Coupling that with two keen enfeebling high crit range weapons, savvy rogue, crippling strike, opportunist, double hit, and combat reflexes, I currently expect to (assuming all attacks hit, and the target is flanked do VERY high SA dice and craven dmg/round and VERY high strength-score ability damage/round.)
This is all assuming my calculations are correct.
Race: Marrulurk (Sandstorm 170)
3 Mon HD
+1 LA
Templates: Dark (Tome of Magic 158)
+1 LA
(DM allows buyoff)
(Note, DM also breaks down monstrous HD into levels)
Progression: Rogue 1->Marrulurk 3->Fighter 1->Swashbuckler 1->Rogue 8->Swashbuckler 1->Fighter 1->Rogue 4
Stats:
(Rolled for stats, DM generous, and I rolled very well)
STR: 16
DEX: 18 + 6(Racial) + 6 item + 5 levels + 5 tome = 40
CON: 16 + 4(Racial) + 4 item = 24
INT: 18
WIS: 16 + 6(Racial) + 4 item =26
CHA: 13 + 4(Racial) + 1 item = 18
Flaws:
Light Sensitivity
Hot-Blooded (spell dmg offset by Cold resist in Dark template)
Feats:
(Racial Bonus): Point Blank Shot
(Racial Bonus): Rapid Shot
(Bonus) Weapon Finesse
(Flaw): Two Weapon Fighting
(Flaw): Craven
1st lvl: Darkstalker
3rd lvl: ??
Fighter 1: Combat Reflexes
6th lvl: Improved Buckler Defence
9th lvl: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12th lvl: Staggering Strike
15th lvl: Daring Outlaw
Fighter 2nd: Rolibar's Gambit
18th lvl:Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Saves:
Fort: 10 (base) + 7 (Abil) + 5 (Cloak) = +22
Reflex: 11 (base) + 15 (Abil) +3 (Grace) +5 (Cloak) = +34
Will: 7 (base) + 8 (Abil) + 5 (Cloak) +20
AC: 10 + 8(armor) + 6 (Shield) + 15 (Dex) + 1 (Size) + 7 (Natural) + 5 (Deflection) + 4 (Dodge) = 56
BAB: +16/+11/+6/+1
Full Attack: +30/+30/+25/+25/+20/+20/+15
Skills of note:
Escape artist: ~ +40
Hide: ~ +60 or more (Without invis)
Listen: ~ +32
Move Silently: ~ +55
Open Lock: ~ +45
Spot: ~ +31
Tumble: ~ +27
Class/Racial/Template Abilities of note:
Discriminating Hearing (Auditory scent of sorts)
Hide in Plain Sight
Darkvision
Superior Low Light Vision
Resist Fire 5
Resist Cold 10
Opportunist
Crippling Strike
Penetrating Strike (ACF)
Gold spent to get stats/skills to this point: ~ 300,000
Any advice on further optmization would be greatly appreciated! =)
One point ... in DMG2, it was pointed out to me that you can get weapons crafted which work like weapon finesse ...
I've given up the arguement over hiding, no matter how much logic I throw at my DM, he won't budge, at in a kind of way, I agree with him, but I personally disagree with flat-footed before your turn in ititiative by the same logic. If you see me while I'm hiding after I shoot my first arrow and thus attempt to dodge further ones, why wouldn't you feel the first hot knife entering your neck during the first round of initiative and thusly try to dodge as well? You're not in temporal stasis, you're in a dungeon, expecting to fight creepy crawlies, so you're not catatonic.
meyer:
The feycrafted weapons are pretty dece, but because that ability only works on light weapons, it would force me to have 2 kukri's (instead of 1 kukri and 1 rapier), assuming I do my build as is planned (Stacking enfeebling with keen on a high range weapon), and then I'd be limited to pure slashing, and if I lost my weapons somehow, I'd be fecked for finesse until I got to a big town again. At least with the feat itself, I can carry a sap and a club or something for bypassing DR if I need to, without having to hunt down a fey to make those weapons for me.
Sweet, I found more evidence!
"If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another
creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you." - Rules Comp.
Which I've always taken to be hogwash, since it contradicts the rules about invisible attackers. If you buy that, then a hidden attacker is worse than an invisible one, which is crap...
I don't understand why that makes a hidden attacker worse than an invisible one. You are effectively invisible as hidden and not vice-versa.
Post-redeeming idea: Master of Masks dip for Gladiator Mask?
Kaorti Resin?
Don't forget you need cover/concealment to hide with the Dark template's (Ex) HiPS.
I don't understand why that makes a hidden attacker worse than an invisible one. You are effectively invisible as hidden and not vice-versa.
I meant to type better.
Nope.
I asked if you were Thad because of your other thread.
I'm sorry but my memory's not the greatest, you'll have to be more specific.