[3.5] swa / ftr / dervish optimization - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

[3.5] swa / ftr / dervish optimization

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xkullx
May 16, 2009 16:39:53 Ive been a sturdy rpg player for 16 years, but havent been playing so much last 4 years, so ive kinda lost track of all the good tricks I used to apply to make my characters as powerful as I like em to be :D

Looking around the this forum, its absolutely the right place to get the most out of any characters.

Books allowed:
Players Handbook
Players Handbook 2
All complete books
Races of stone, wild, dragon and frostburn

Though I dont think all are needed.

12 levels to play around with.
This is what ive put together so far, so im looking for some good tips on how to get more out of this.

Race: Catfolk ( +4 dex, +2 con, base speed 40ft, +1 natural armor LA: +1 )
Swashbucker 3 / Fighter 2 / dervish 6

Scores: ( 4d6 - take away lowest, rolled 16,16, 16, 13, 13, 10 )

Str: 20 ( 16 + Belt +4 )
Dex: 26 ( 16 + 4catfolk + 2 level 4 and 8 + Gloves of dex +4 )
Con: 13
Int : 20 ( 16 + headband +4 )
Wis: 13
Cha 12 ( 10 + 2catfolk )

Feats : Weapon finesse, Combat expertise, Dodge, mobility, weapon focus ) scimitar ) , two wpn Fighting , spring attack , Imp Crit.

88.000 money to play around with

I went for : Celestial Armor , Gloves of dex +4, headband of int +4, Belt of str +4, 2x scimi +1 , boots of striding and springing

Normal Attacks : +19/+19/+14/+9 1d6+11 15-20 x2

Dervish: 22/22/17/12 1d6+14 15-20x2

Its a pretty decent build I think, but as far as dishing out damage its not quite where I`m used to, even though its quite nice to full move and full attack.

But playing around with those scores and 88.000 going for a ok dervish.

Is there any ok ideas to improve further ?
#2
nickresonance
May 16, 2009 17:48:05 If you can bump your fighter levels up to four and grab Weapon Specialization, then you could qualify for the Daring Warrior feat from Complete Scoundrel. Your swashbuckler and fighter levels stack for determining your bonus to Reflex svaes, your dodge bonus, and your fighter levels for qualifying for fighter feats, like Greater Weapon Focus.

You might also look into swapping the swashbuckler's dodge bonus for the shield bonus (from PH2) since you're be dual-wielding anyway. If you do that and Daring Warrior, ask your DM if it will advance the shield bonus since you don't have the dodge bonus anymore.
#3
lormador
May 16, 2009 17:51:39 How about....
Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Dervish 3?

Bonus Swash: Weapon Finesse
Bonus Fighter: Dodge, Mobility
Feats: Weapon Focus (Scimitar), TWF, Daring Outlaw, Improved Initiative

Buying, with the gold, a pair of Keen Scimitars. It is painful to give up levels in Dervish, but you still have two dances per day, some skill points, Evasion, and most importantly +3d6 Sneak Attack which can be +4d6 if you invest in another level of Rogue or Swashbuckler at some point.

If nothing else, those Rogue levels could buy a fat bunch of ranks in Use Magic Device, after which a modest investment in a Wand of Expeditious Retreat might prove useful; or even Longstrider.
#4
dandu
May 16, 2009 17:55:31 Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack never really impressed me much.

Tell me, what are you trying to achieve with this character? I'm sure we can get mechanics to match your concept if we knew more details about it.

Just offhand, though, if you want a powerful TWF build that's highly mobile, you can try for a Dragonfire Inspiration Bard with TWF. Gets you multiple d6 dice added to every attack.
#5
lormador
May 16, 2009 18:10:44 Leadership could put such a Dragonfire Inspiration bard on the team in any case... with luck, there might even be an Archivist back there!
#6
xkullx
May 16, 2009 18:17:13 Im trying to achieve a bit more damage output, but I want to try the Dervish as I havent played it before.

Basicly our DM is pretty strickt and quite easily bans something if it becomes too powerful, for instance Frenzied, sadism/machocism, Master of many forms and so on.

Some of em are quite understandable, but when u meet a Elemental Monolith, 3 Huge Fire elementals and a Balor in level 12 its quite hard to deal with such a challenge.

So doing a Dervish build to utilize its very good potential at High AC and movement suits heavy challenges quite fine.

Only thing, I want to be able to do a little more damage if possible using those quite standard books.
#7
lormador
May 16, 2009 18:22:24 Balor and friends at level 12? Maybe in a hardcore optimized game.... but with a DM banning the outrageous stuff?

"Gather round the wizard, guys, it's time to teleport." That's how I'd handle the encounter.
#8
dandu
May 16, 2009 18:23:15 Well, the most direct method of gaining additional damage is sneak attack, so you may want to throw some rogue in there.

Additionally, try Scout for damage that applies after you move 10 feet.

If ToB was allowed, you could dip in Swordsage and then take the Shadow Hand feat which allows you to add dex to damage for certain weapons like short swords.
#9
eldariel
May 16, 2009 21:23:36 Scout works best with Dervish. In fact, I love Scout 4/Ranger 2-entry to Dervish with Swift Hunter; you eventually get Scout 6/Ranger 4 or Ranger 6/Scout 4 to finish it off with Dervish 10.

That said, with those books I'd consider two more levels of Fighter after Dervish 7 (you can finish Dervish later). Pick up Weapon Specialization, which qualifies you for Melee Weapon Mastery, which actually adds a decent amount of damage to your whole operation. Also, Deadly Defense [CScoundrel] adds +1d6 if you fight defensively (you can afford to almost all the time).

With that in mind, I'd probably go with Martial Rogue [SRD] for two levels to pick up two more bonus feats and Evasion too.

You really need Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fightings. They're much more important than Improved Critical, for one. Others are prerequisites, although you should definitely take Expeditious Dodge [RoTW] over Dodge (it works as Dodge as a qualification). But yeah, Imp. and Greater TWF over Imp. Crit and your next feat (unless your DM were to give you the benefits for free; given how much better two-handed fighting is to two-weapon fighting, that's only fair).

And talk about level adjustment buyoff with your DM. Catfolk is a fine race, but not really worth +1 Level Adjustment; buying the LA off would put you just few thousand points of XP behind instead of a whole level.

With your items, I'd probably go with just +2 Str & Int-items. Invest in Boots of Speed over Boots of Springing and Striding; Haste is a great effect and 10 rounds tends to be plenty when used sparingly. Get few backup Oils and items like Oil of Bless Weapon (you can't believe how annoying it is to run into evil outsiders and be unable to pierce their DR).

You might want to get a Potion or two too and if possible, talk with your DM about upgrading the flight ability on your Armor to either constant, or at least 3/day; DMG has the rules for pricing such upgrades.

Also, talk to your Wizard/Cleric about getting Greater Magic Weapon cast on both your weapons daily. It lasts 12 hours already so it should be almost whole adventuring day, and you'd get +3 weapons instead. Get them an appropriate Pearl of Power for their troubles; much cheaper than buying actually better weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xkullx May 16, 2009 16:39:53	Ive been a sturdy rpg player for 16 years, but havent been playing so much last 4 years, so ive kinda lost track of all the good tricks I used to apply to make my characters as powerful as I like em to be :D Looking around the this forum, its absolutely the right place to get the most out of any characters. Books allowed: Players Handbook Players Handbook 2 All complete books Races of stone, wild, dragon and frostburn Though I dont think all are needed. 12 levels to play around with. This is what ive put together so far, so im looking for some good tips on how to get more out of this. Race: Catfolk ( +4 dex, +2 con, base speed 40ft, +1 natural armor LA: +1 ) Swashbucker 3 / Fighter 2 / dervish 6 Scores: ( 4d6 - take away lowest, rolled 16,16, 16, 13, 13, 10 ) Str: 20 ( 16 + Belt +4 ) Dex: 26 ( 16 + 4catfolk + 2 level 4 and 8 + Gloves of dex +4 ) Con: 13 Int : 20 ( 16 + headband +4 ) Wis: 13 Cha 12 ( 10 + 2catfolk ) Feats : Weapon finesse, Combat expertise, Dodge, mobility, weapon focus ) scimitar ) , two wpn Fighting , spring attack , Imp Crit. 88.000 money to play around with I went for : Celestial Armor , Gloves of dex +4, headband of int +4, Belt of str +4, 2x scimi +1 , boots of striding and springing Normal Attacks : +19/+19/+14/+9 1d6+11 15-20 x2 Dervish: 22/22/17/12 1d6+14 15-20x2 Its a pretty decent build I think, but as far as dishing out damage its not quite where I`m used to, even though its quite nice to full move and full attack. But playing around with those scores and 88.000 going for a ok dervish. Is there any ok ideas to improve further ?
#2 nickresonance May 16, 2009 17:48:05	If you can bump your fighter levels up to four and grab Weapon Specialization, then you could qualify for the Daring Warrior feat from Complete Scoundrel. Your swashbuckler and fighter levels stack for determining your bonus to Reflex svaes, your dodge bonus, and your fighter levels for qualifying for fighter feats, like Greater Weapon Focus. You might also look into swapping the swashbuckler's dodge bonus for the shield bonus (from PH2) since you're be dual-wielding anyway. If you do that and Daring Warrior, ask your DM if it will advance the shield bonus since you don't have the dodge bonus anymore.
#3 lormador May 16, 2009 17:51:39	How about.... Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 / Swashbuckler 3 / Dervish 3? Bonus Swash: Weapon Finesse Bonus Fighter: Dodge, Mobility Feats: Weapon Focus (Scimitar), TWF, Daring Outlaw, Improved Initiative Buying, with the gold, a pair of Keen Scimitars. It is painful to give up levels in Dervish, but you still have two dances per day, some skill points, Evasion, and most importantly +3d6 Sneak Attack which can be +4d6 if you invest in another level of Rogue or Swashbuckler at some point. If nothing else, those Rogue levels could buy a fat bunch of ranks in Use Magic Device, after which a modest investment in a Wand of Expeditious Retreat might prove useful; or even Longstrider.
#4 dandu May 16, 2009 17:55:31	Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack never really impressed me much. Tell me, what are you trying to achieve with this character? I'm sure we can get mechanics to match your concept if we knew more details about it. Just offhand, though, if you want a powerful TWF build that's highly mobile, you can try for a Dragonfire Inspiration Bard with TWF. Gets you multiple d6 dice added to every attack.
#5 lormador May 16, 2009 18:10:44	Leadership could put such a Dragonfire Inspiration bard on the team in any case... with luck, there might even be an Archivist back there!
#6 xkullx May 16, 2009 18:17:13	Im trying to achieve a bit more damage output, but I want to try the Dervish as I havent played it before. Basicly our DM is pretty strickt and quite easily bans something if it becomes too powerful, for instance Frenzied, sadism/machocism, Master of many forms and so on. Some of em are quite understandable, but when u meet a Elemental Monolith, 3 Huge Fire elementals and a Balor in level 12 its quite hard to deal with such a challenge. So doing a Dervish build to utilize its very good potential at High AC and movement suits heavy challenges quite fine. Only thing, I want to be able to do a little more damage if possible using those quite standard books.
#7 lormador May 16, 2009 18:22:24	Balor and friends at level 12? Maybe in a hardcore optimized game.... but with a DM banning the outrageous stuff? "Gather round the wizard, guys, it's time to teleport." That's how I'd handle the encounter.
#8 dandu May 16, 2009 18:23:15	Well, the most direct method of gaining additional damage is sneak attack, so you may want to throw some rogue in there. Additionally, try Scout for damage that applies after you move 10 feet. If ToB was allowed, you could dip in Swordsage and then take the Shadow Hand feat which allows you to add dex to damage for certain weapons like short swords.
#9 eldariel May 16, 2009 21:23:36	Scout works best with Dervish. In fact, I love Scout 4/Ranger 2-entry to Dervish with Swift Hunter; you eventually get Scout 6/Ranger 4 or Ranger 6/Scout 4 to finish it off with Dervish 10. That said, with those books I'd consider two more levels of Fighter after Dervish 7 (you can finish Dervish later). Pick up Weapon Specialization, which qualifies you for Melee Weapon Mastery, which actually adds a decent amount of damage to your whole operation. Also, Deadly Defense [CScoundrel] adds +1d6 if you fight defensively (you can afford to almost all the time). With that in mind, I'd probably go with Martial Rogue [SRD] for two levels to pick up two more bonus feats and Evasion too. You really need Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fightings. They're much more important than Improved Critical, for one. Others are prerequisites, although you should definitely take Expeditious Dodge [RoTW] over Dodge (it works as Dodge as a qualification). But yeah, Imp. and Greater TWF over Imp. Crit and your next feat (unless your DM were to give you the benefits for free; given how much better two-handed fighting is to two-weapon fighting, that's only fair). And talk about level adjustment buyoff with your DM. Catfolk is a fine race, but not really worth +1 Level Adjustment; buying the LA off would put you just few thousand points of XP behind instead of a whole level. With your items, I'd probably go with just +2 Str & Int-items. Invest in Boots of Speed over Boots of Springing and Striding; Haste is a great effect and 10 rounds tends to be plenty when used sparingly. Get few backup Oils and items like Oil of Bless Weapon (you can't believe how annoying it is to run into evil outsiders and be unable to pierce their DR). You might want to get a Potion or two too and if possible, talk with your DM about upgrading the flight ability on your Armor to either constant, or at least 3/day; DMG has the rules for pricing such upgrades. Also, talk to your Wizard/Cleric about getting Greater Magic Weapon cast on both your weapons daily. It lasts 12 hours already so it should be almost whole adventuring day, and you'd get +3 weapons instead. Get them an appropriate Pearl of Power for their troubles; much cheaper than buying actually better weapons.