3.5 tome of battle, crusader - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

3.5 tome of battle, crusader

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zellath
Dec 11, 2008 1:39:03 as anyone know with the crusader class, they have the potintale to be self healers, and i was looking at makeing abuild based around this i know that the manuvers that will be taken are from the withe raven and the devoted spirt paths. how ever i am trying to find a feat tree to go with it vital recovory is a given. but past that i'm not sure. i am going to be the main tank in the group so i am looking for Damage reduction feats or, something simlar. i also need to be of some threat in order to keep the baddis focused on me. so that mean i need to deal decesnt damage. anyone have and thought one these types of feat trees?
#2
Senevri
Dec 11, 2008 5:27:53 Let me help a bit; punctuation is your friend:
as anyone know with the crusader class, they have the potential to be self healers, and i was looking at making a build based around this.

I know that the manuvers that will be taken are from the white raven and the devoted spirt paths.

White Raven, Devoted Spirit AND Stone Dragon. You can get DR strikes from there.
However i am trying to find a feat tree to go with it.
Vital recovery is a given, but past that i'm not sure.

No. Vital Recovery is ONCE per combat. Stone Power is better - you can feed your Furious Counterstrike on it, while being in Martial Spirit stance and additionally healing 1d6+il with Crusader's Strike, if you like.

Take Extra Granted Maneuver ASAP. Stone Power is at it's best from, oh, 3-8, I think.

5th level gets you Revitalizing Strike and Thicket of Blades, which is a very nice starter for battlefield control. By comboing a longspear with Armor Spikes, you threaten without extra feats in a 10ft range.

The next maneuver heal upgrade isn't 'til level 11, and then there's just Strike of Righteous Vitality, though. Your best bets are in getting multiple attacks for getting the most out of those +2s and +5 from Stone Power. A dip to monk for two levels gives you access to higher level stances, nets you flurry and some feats, perhaps. Add Superior UAS and two-weapon fighting ( which is useful with armor spikes, too ) and you're looking at -3 to hit, but 2 extra hits. Without a Monk's Belt. That's 15 points of self-healing and another 6 from stance - not counting strikes.

I am going to be the main tank in the group so I am looking for Damage reduction feats or, something similar.

If you can stomach the CE flavor, Fiendish Codex 1 has a set of feats granting DR up to 13/lawful. Outside that, there are some feats in PHBII, on both Divine and Martial line. Remember, you also get Stone Dragon, which has DR strikes up to 20/Adamantite.

I also need to be of some threat in order to keep the baddies focused on me, so that means i need to deal decent damage. Anyone have and thought one these types of feat trees?

Stone Power + Shards of Granite. Ignore DR. Stone Dragon Strikes for damage. Thicket of Blades + Defensive Sweep to make everyone in your reach to get hits. If you can fit Tripping in there...
#3
nebelmond
Dec 11, 2008 6:39:04 Magic of Incarnum: Shape Soulmeld (Therapeutic Mantle) - every spell or effect (your stance, for example) that heals you, heals you for an additional amount equal to its level, plus an additional 2 points for every point of essentia invested. Even without investment into incarnum classes to invest essentia nice if you plan to use the healing stances.

You would want to have as many attacks as possible, for example with multiple arms and the manyweapon chain plus maneuvers.

To bind foes with Thicket of Blades, you also need Combat Reflexes and Stand Still

Be careful of the alignment restrictions of strikes. And plan something else to heal when there's no enemy to hit. No, hitting your friends to heal them does not work.
#4
justicesays
Dec 11, 2008 7:13:02
Let me help a bit; punctuation is your friend:

No. Vital Recovery is ONCE per combat. Stone Power is better - you can feed your Furious Counterstrike on it, while being in Martial Spirit stance and additionally healing 1d6+il with Crusader's Strike, if you like.

You can only use regular melee attacks and stone dragon manouvers with Stone Power, you cant use Devoted Spirit strikes (so no crusader strike).

Im playing a Crusader/Swordsage at the moment.
Human, starting with Extra Granted Manouver and Combat Reflexes at level 1, them moving up to Stone power at level 3 (it becomes useful once you actually have BAB to spend), then EWP: Spiked chain at 6th

The Extra granted manvouer is the most broken feat you can take, as it allows you 5 manouvers / 3 rounds instead of 5 / 4 rounds, a 25% increase in your use rate.
As you regain faster than you can use with standard actions you want to pick up some boosts ASAP, White Raven Tactics is a must, huge buff to the party.
If you grab Wall of Steel (from iron heart) via the Martial Study feat at 6th or 9th you can use an Iron Heart vest (back of the ToB) to get Iron Heart Surge. Low cost items that allows you a rounds grace after getting hit with an effect (like the 1 round freedom of movement item in the MIC) become alot more useful when you can surge off the effect.

Taking some swordsage (or warblade) levels allows you to supplement your crusader attacks with increased speed or saving throw boosters. I personally took a level of swordsage at 3rd, taking the 2nd level teleport manouver and the reflex/will save concentration replacement manouvers, as well as a swordsage stance (and some other stuff).
This allows you to (mostly ) dump wisdom. Another level of swordsage at 8th gets you a second stance of 3rd level and a 3rd level manouver.

Of the things I took, Stone Power, extra Granted Manouver, the Will Save replacement manouver, and the teleport manouver have proved the most useful. Taking 10 damage and just shrugging it off via Stone power/Delayed damage pool is great. In early (4-5th level) fights I was taking upwards of 125% of my total hps in damage and coming out 6-7 hps down off maximum, without external healing. Handy items to take include the Amulet of Tears from the MIC. With that you can grab 12 Temp hps as a swift action and still use a full BAB healing manouver to counter upwards of 20 damage in a round.
Use it the round before and after getting hit for upwards of 31+ damage soak to no net loss in a round of combat (Unlike stone power the amulet hps last 1 min)

Stone Power doesnt have a Living/Aligned target restriction, so just grab those 10 hps whenever you need them, trap damage soaking, remaining delayed damage after the bad guy went down, walking down a dodgy looking corridor at single move speed. (Just hit the wall/floor) etc. etc.

Stone Dragon manvouers do have "On the ground/touching earth" kind of restrictions, so your DM might catch you out if you are flying, in an upper story of a building, that kind of thing.
#5
Senevri
Dec 11, 2008 8:27:01
I personally took a level of swordsage at 3rd, taking the 2nd level teleport manouver and the reflex/will save concentration replacement manouvers, as well as a swordsage stance (and some other stuff).

Third? Your SS IL would be just 2... You need to wait 'til fifth. Also, remember you only get a first level stance on the first level of any Base Initiator class.
#6
justicesays
Dec 11, 2008 9:45:21
Third? Your SS IL would be just 2... You need to wait 'til fifth. Also, remember you only get a first level stance on the first level of any Base Initiator class.

Sorry, I did in fact mean 5th. I did take a first level stance, Step of the Wind seemed the most useful from the options available.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zellath Dec 11, 2008 1:39:03	as anyone know with the crusader class, they have the potintale to be self healers, and i was looking at makeing abuild based around this i know that the manuvers that will be taken are from the withe raven and the devoted spirt paths. how ever i am trying to find a feat tree to go with it vital recovory is a given. but past that i'm not sure. i am going to be the main tank in the group so i am looking for Damage reduction feats or, something simlar. i also need to be of some threat in order to keep the baddis focused on me. so that mean i need to deal decesnt damage. anyone have and thought one these types of feat trees?
#2 Senevri Dec 11, 2008 5:27:53	Let me help a bit; punctuation is your friend: as anyone know with the crusader class, they have the potential to be self healers, and i was looking at making a build based around this. I know that the manuvers that will be taken are from the white raven and the devoted spirt paths. White Raven, Devoted Spirit AND Stone Dragon. You can get DR strikes from there. However i am trying to find a feat tree to go with it. Vital recovery is a given, but past that i'm not sure. No. Vital Recovery is ONCE per combat. Stone Power is better - you can feed your Furious Counterstrike on it, while being in Martial Spirit stance and additionally healing 1d6+il with Crusader's Strike, if you like. Take Extra Granted Maneuver ASAP. Stone Power is at it's best from, oh, 3-8, I think. 5th level gets you Revitalizing Strike and Thicket of Blades, which is a very nice starter for battlefield control. By comboing a longspear with Armor Spikes, you threaten without extra feats in a 10ft range. The next maneuver heal upgrade isn't 'til level 11, and then there's just Strike of Righteous Vitality, though. Your best bets are in getting multiple attacks for getting the most out of those +2s and +5 from Stone Power. A dip to monk for two levels gives you access to higher level stances, nets you flurry and some feats, perhaps. Add Superior UAS and two-weapon fighting ( which is useful with armor spikes, too ) and you're looking at -3 to hit, but 2 extra hits. Without a Monk's Belt. That's 15 points of self-healing and another 6 from stance - not counting strikes. I am going to be the main tank in the group so I am looking for Damage reduction feats or, something similar. If you can stomach the CE flavor, Fiendish Codex 1 has a set of feats granting DR up to 13/lawful. Outside that, there are some feats in PHBII, on both Divine and Martial line. Remember, you also get Stone Dragon, which has DR strikes up to 20/Adamantite. I also need to be of some threat in order to keep the baddies focused on me, so that means i need to deal decent damage. Anyone have and thought one these types of feat trees? Stone Power + Shards of Granite. Ignore DR. Stone Dragon Strikes for damage. Thicket of Blades + Defensive Sweep to make everyone in your reach to get hits. If you can fit Tripping in there...
#3 nebelmond Dec 11, 2008 6:39:04	Magic of Incarnum: Shape Soulmeld (Therapeutic Mantle) - every spell or effect (your stance, for example) that heals you, heals you for an additional amount equal to its level, plus an additional 2 points for every point of essentia invested. Even without investment into incarnum classes to invest essentia nice if you plan to use the healing stances. You would want to have as many attacks as possible, for example with multiple arms and the manyweapon chain plus maneuvers. To bind foes with Thicket of Blades, you also need Combat Reflexes and Stand Still Be careful of the alignment restrictions of strikes. And plan something else to heal when there's no enemy to hit. No, hitting your friends to heal them does not work.
#4 justicesays Dec 11, 2008 7:13:02	Let me help a bit; punctuation is your friend: No. Vital Recovery is ONCE per combat. Stone Power is better - you can feed your Furious Counterstrike on it, while being in Martial Spirit stance and additionally healing 1d6+il with Crusader's Strike, if you like. You can only use regular melee attacks and stone dragon manouvers with Stone Power, you cant use Devoted Spirit strikes (so no crusader strike). Im playing a Crusader/Swordsage at the moment. Human, starting with Extra Granted Manouver and Combat Reflexes at level 1, them moving up to Stone power at level 3 (it becomes useful once you actually have BAB to spend), then EWP: Spiked chain at 6th The Extra granted manvouer is the most broken feat you can take, as it allows you 5 manouvers / 3 rounds instead of 5 / 4 rounds, a 25% increase in your use rate. As you regain faster than you can use with standard actions you want to pick up some boosts ASAP, White Raven Tactics is a must, huge buff to the party. If you grab Wall of Steel (from iron heart) via the Martial Study feat at 6th or 9th you can use an Iron Heart vest (back of the ToB) to get Iron Heart Surge. Low cost items that allows you a rounds grace after getting hit with an effect (like the 1 round freedom of movement item in the MIC) become alot more useful when you can surge off the effect. Taking some swordsage (or warblade) levels allows you to supplement your crusader attacks with increased speed or saving throw boosters. I personally took a level of swordsage at 3rd, taking the 2nd level teleport manouver and the reflex/will save concentration replacement manouvers, as well as a swordsage stance (and some other stuff). This allows you to (mostly ) dump wisdom. Another level of swordsage at 8th gets you a second stance of 3rd level and a 3rd level manouver. Of the things I took, Stone Power, extra Granted Manouver, the Will Save replacement manouver, and the teleport manouver have proved the most useful. Taking 10 damage and just shrugging it off via Stone power/Delayed damage pool is great. In early (4-5th level) fights I was taking upwards of 125% of my total hps in damage and coming out 6-7 hps down off maximum, without external healing. Handy items to take include the Amulet of Tears from the MIC. With that you can grab 12 Temp hps as a swift action and still use a full BAB healing manouver to counter upwards of 20 damage in a round. Use it the round before and after getting hit for upwards of 31+ damage soak to no net loss in a round of combat (Unlike stone power the amulet hps last 1 min) Stone Power doesnt have a Living/Aligned target restriction, so just grab those 10 hps whenever you need them, trap damage soaking, remaining delayed damage after the bad guy went down, walking down a dodgy looking corridor at single move speed. (Just hit the wall/floor) etc. etc. Stone Dragon manvouers do have "On the ground/touching earth" kind of restrictions, so your DM might catch you out if you are flying, in an upper story of a building, that kind of thing.
#5 Senevri Dec 11, 2008 8:27:01	I personally took a level of swordsage at 3rd, taking the 2nd level teleport manouver and the reflex/will save concentration replacement manouvers, as well as a swordsage stance (and some other stuff). Third? Your SS IL would be just 2... You need to wait 'til fifth. Also, remember you only get a first level stance on the first level of any Base Initiator class.
#6 justicesays Dec 11, 2008 9:45:21	Third? Your SS IL would be just 2... You need to wait 'til fifth. Also, remember you only get a first level stance on the first level of any Base Initiator class. Sorry, I did in fact mean 5th. I did take a first level stance, Step of the Wind seemed the most useful from the options available.