Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 The_Hooded_Boy Apr 23, 2013 15:13:04	Hey, I have recently become very interested in Warlocks as a 3.5 class. I have played a low level basic blaster build of one and am interested in trying the different variations of them. My D&D group is having a game day where there will be a one-shot 3.5 game, so I figured it would be the perfect opportunity to try out the other builds. But since I do not know much about Glaivelocks and Clawlocks I decided to come here for help, but Dragon Magazines are not allowed, so I will have to go with a Glaivelock. So here is what I know about the game and character creation so far: It is based off of Gary Gygax's old module (rewritten for 3.5) "Against the Giants". The game style has been described as "Classic, Hack & Slash with Stealth". Fumble/Crit decks will be used. Level 9 characters. Books only, no dragon magazines. No evil or psionic characters. Any race is open, use ECLs if need be. Starting attribute array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. Starting gold will be at 10th level value instead of 9th, so 49,000 gp. Can buy anything from the books at book value, but nothing cursed and I must check with the DM on any artifacts. Possibility of flaws to get feats, but depends on the flaw (so I must check with him). So if you guys could help me build an optimized Glaivelock for this coming weekend then that would be great. Thanks ahead of time. P.S. While I won't object to posting completed characters, please explain the builds so that I won't have to look through and try and figure out everything you did with it as well as the benefits and negatives. Same goes with posting opinions on glaivelocks, you can say what you think about it or other people's posts, but just be sure to specify why you feel that way so that it will give me an idea what I should expect with playing one.
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 23, 2013 15:35:37	I presume you've read this? Classic hack-and-slash "with stealth" suggests that you'd do well to consider Walk Unseen and/or Flee the Scene, so you're probably going to take more Warlock levels than some Glaivelocks do. Warlock 8 / [any martial adept] would be a good place to start; 8 Warlock gives you IL 5 when you take your first level of martial adept, and gets you enough pure Warlock levels to get both of the lesser invocations.
#3 The_Hooded_Boy Apr 23, 2013 15:57:01	Yes, I have looked at that, but it is a very general guide. I found it useful, but for a more specific "what would be good for my situation" as well as "not planning to advance in levels" kind of build it doesn't help as much. So while I have taken note of everything there, I am looking for overall ideas, like the one you gave, on getting it to work for my situation.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 23, 2013 16:36:16	Then toss out a few builds and we'll help refine them; we dont' build characters for you so much as help you build your own. That's how you improve. I'd suggest trying Warlock 8 / Swordsage 1, or Warlock 1 / Swashbuckler 6 / Swordsage 2 (get Power Attack early, with Assassin's Stance and Daring Outlaw at 9th) as halfway decent places to start, depending on how much the rest of your team can also handle stealth (the former is much sneakier in out-of-combat scenarios, in essence always invisible and flying, while the latter makes better use out of Glaive and Power Attack). Race is to taste.
#5 Krusk Apr 23, 2013 17:38:22	Fumble/Crit decks will be used. Do your best to roll as few attack rolls as possible. These universally penalize anyone who makes an attack roll, so its best to minimze this (don't ever full attack with multiple attacks a round). I generally recomend a summoner wizard, but thats obviously not what you want.  Warlocks get some crappy summoning powers you can use along with some of the "instant effect no attack roll needed" invocations. Try to use them.  ---- For less generic advice post your build idea (what you have) and we can tweak it.
#6 The_Hooded_Boy Apr 23, 2013 17:59:09	Then toss out a few builds and we'll help refine them; we dont' build characters for you so much as help you build your own. That's how you improve. I'd suggest trying Warlock 8 / Swordsage 1, or Warlock 1 / Swashbuckler 6 / Swordsage 2 (get Power Attack early, with Assassin's Stance and Daring Outlaw at 9th) as halfway decent places to start, depending on how much the rest of your team can also handle stealth (the former is much sneakier in out-of-combat scenarios, in essence always invisible and flying, while the latter makes better use out of Glaive and Power Attack). Race is to taste.  Okay thanks, I will try to build out those 2 and see what kind of thing fits me the best, I will then post it here. Fumble/Crit decks will be used. Do your best to roll as few attack rolls as possible. These universally penalize anyone who makes an attack roll, so its best to minimze this (don't ever full attack with multiple attacks a round). I generally recomend a summoner wizard, but thats obviously not what you want.  Warlocks get some crappy summoning powers you can use along with some of the "instant effect no attack roll needed" invocations. Try to use them.  ---- For less generic advice post your build idea (what you have) and we can tweak it. I recently tried a level 11 summoner at a convention and loved it. Still need practice building them at lower levels but I think 9 is the lowest I could build a summoner and make it work, so maybe I might try. And yeah, I have realized Glaivelock, due to the way it is made, is more prone to fumbling than a lot of "one strong hit" classes, that is one of my concerns with it as well as one of the reasons I hoped to optimize it to make up for the flaw.
#7 draco1119 Apr 23, 2013 19:03:33	You could go Hellfire Warlock instead of Glaivelock, and you could try Malconvoker as a summoning class.
#8 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 23, 2013 20:32:33	You could go Hellfire Warlock instead of Glaivelock Normally you can easily combine them both, but you can't here - everyone always forgets Hellfire Warlock requires 12 ranks in its skills, meaning 10th is the soonest level that can be a Hellfire Warlock, and this game is locked to 9th.
#9 draco1119 Apr 23, 2013 21:01:50	Derp. You are correct, good sir. I did forget about that.
#10 The_Crimson_Dawn Apr 27, 2013 12:35:15	Are you playing with a fairly srict rules as written?  I ask because eldritch glaive has a few rules involved with it that many people don't realize or forget.  For instance it does not work with haste as the invocation only allows you to make attacks as a number based on BAB but notice you are not ever making an attack action, a full attack, or a full attack action.  It also is not a weapon which can mean losing out on ome stuff. These sort of annyoing rules are why some ignore RAW and allow for things to work with it that shouldn't.
#11 The_Fred Apr 29, 2013 6:01:46	Yep, that's a fairly important point actually. Like, I for one would not let Power Attack work with it (PA doesn't say "weapon damage" as it probably should, but it's not clear that EB's damage is even "melee damage" since that's never really defined - besides, screw the RAW, PAing with an immaterial weapon which strikes touch AC is stupid). Conversely I'd let Weapon Finesse (and Haste) work with it. It's just worth knowing what game you're playing, is all.