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3.5 Warrior Type Needed

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rocklax
Sep 03, 2008 8:28:39 Ok some help would be really nice. Don't flame me I'm a newb.

3.5
Any book allowed, my DM has EVERYTHING!

Standard Point Buy System for Stats

My character will be using a Spike Chain, other than that I am open to any race/class combo. This character has to be 6 ECL.

Let's see them!

I would like to play something a little different with some roleplaying opportunity. Eveyone in my group is either a human or half-elf.

This character needs to be able to melee, our healer also died so I'd be up for some sort of healing type char as well...
#2
iconoplast
Sep 03, 2008 11:11:34 Well, just to grab ideas from another thread:

ECL 6:
0. Dragonborn of Bahamut template.
1. Goliath LA
2. Goliath Barbarian 1 (Mountain Rage)
3. Fighter 1
4. Fighter 2 (Dungeoncrasher)
5. Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 (Improved Trip)
6. Cleric 1 (War Domain, Deity w/ Spiked Chain as favored weapon).

Feats:
1. Power Attack
3. Improved Bull Rush
F1. Knockback
6. Shock Trooper.

Dragonborn is in Races of the Dragon.
Goliath (And the Goliath Barbarian Sub Level) are in Races of Stone.
Wolf Totem Barbarian is in Unearthed Arcana.
Dungeoncrasher Fighter is in Dungeonscape.
Knockback is in Races of Stone.
Shock Trooper is in Complete Warrior.

End Result: On every swing, you do 2d6 (Large spiked chain) + 1.5 * Str. On every hit, you initiate a Bull Rush. If you bull rush them into wall, they take extra damage. If you bull rush opponents into each other, you get free trip attempts.

Followup: You're going to want Cleave (since Cleave triggers on a Trip, RAW), and by the time the Dragonborn Template gives you wings, you'll want Battle Jump from Unapproachable East. Leap Attack can probably fit in there somewhere.

Go Crusader after Cleric. Crusader means (1) you can do extra damage or heal when you swing, and (2) you heal every hit. Cleric means Weapon Proficiency & Weapon Focus in Spiked Chain. Cleric/Crusader means Ruby Knight Vindicator PrC, if you can get around the "Must Worship Wee Jas, who does NOT have Spiked Chain as his favored weapon" bit.

Leap Attack is in Complete Adventurer. Crusader and Ruby Knight Vindicator are in Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.
#3
maulorn
Sep 03, 2008 13:35:30 Human Crusader...AoO expert. You do not have to be human but the extra feat helps greatly for getting you set.

Not only would you be able to control the battleground pretty darn good. You will be able to provide additional healing.

Human: Combat Reflexes
1: Stand Still
3: Extra Granted Maneuver
6: Stone Power

You could also go dwarf and go for the PrC in Nine Swords.
#4
rocklax
Sep 04, 2008 7:53:42 Excuse my noobishness but what is AoO expert? For that matter on the boards I see gish too. What is that?
#5
iconoplast
Sep 04, 2008 9:46:17 AoO expert = Attack of Opportunity. In 3.5, you take Attacks of Opportunity on your opponent's turn when he provokes them - by leaving a square you threaten, usually. That build is designed to make your opponent provoke them more often, and to make your AoOs more effective.

Gish is shorthand for Fighter/Spellcaster. Most builds have 9th level spellcasting by level 20, a 16 BAB, and some other tricks.

I'm going to repeat something else I said in the XCrawl fighter thread - if you're new to D&D 3.5, don't play a fighter. It's not the easiest class - the tank is the party role that requires the most finagling to be effective.

Also, a spiked chain is an exotic weapon - you need a feat to be able to use it (Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain). Are you sure you want to use it? Why?

For first time players, I really recommend three classes that seem pretty focused in their application, don't require a lot of sourcebooks and don't require a lot of arithmetic in play:

o) a Sorcerer - you don't have to worry about memorizing spells multiple times, and you have a spell list in front of you that gives you the range of options of what you can do.

o) a Heal-Bot Cleric - the Cleric is capable of a lot, but if you concentrate on Healing & Turning Undead, you will be useful to the party and there isn't too much to worry about.

o) A Rogue - make sure to max out the necessary skills and then try to get off sneak attacks whenever you can.
#6
maulorn
Sep 04, 2008 11:18:29 Yes I forgot the spiked chain as my current uses a diff reach...

Pretty much you Provoke a AoO regardless of what the opponent tries...you punish them for attacking, not attacking, moving, not moving. It gets really nasty and you can use feats like Standstill to keep them in place and keep them from hitting softer targets.
#7
tshern
Sep 04, 2008 11:27:06 Shamelessly tooting my own horn here:

Tshern and I are going to be working on a revision of my lockdown build that assumes that mage slayer doesn't hit ML. If you play in a game that does think that, then just use 2.0.
Fighter 2/ Monk 2/ Crusader 1/ Warmind 2/ Crusader +1/ Warmind +8/ Warblade 1/ Hexblade 3
Kalashtar.
Feats:
1) Standstill
F1) Power Attack
F2) Mage Slayer
3) Knowledge Devotion
M1) Combat Reflexes
M2) Monastic Training
6) Weapon Focus(Guisarme)
9) Pole Master(Guisarme)
12) Tashalatora(Warmind)
15) Robilar's Gambit
18) Pierce magical protection

Notable maneuvers to get: mountain hammer(crusader), White Raven Tactics(warblade), Iron Heart Surge(warblade)
Stance: Thicket of blades (crusader)

Items of note:
* Belt of magnificence+6/Belt of battle
* Skin of proteus
* Heartseeking amulet with 4-6 charges a day
* Torc of power preservation
* +5 resistance bonus to saves with some item. Combined with the Torc?
* Discipline weapon
Powers selected: Expansion, Empty mind, Hustle, Dimension slide and Strength of my enemy
#8
maulorn
Sep 04, 2008 11:42:11 That would be rough xp to get to there though it does have merit. How does it play as it progresses?
#9
tshern
Sep 04, 2008 12:10:06 Where exactly does it incur XP penalty? Warmind is a prestige class and thus doesn't incur any negative effects.

The only problem this build really has is the first two levels and even those are optimized. When it takes Crusader at level 5 it already qualifies for second level maneuvers, which is frigging awesome.

Base saves at level 20 are 18/11/9, charisma to saves against spells and spell-like abilities, charisma to will saves, a crapload of excellent maneuvers, including White raven tactics and Ironheart surge and all those psionic powers just add to the overkill. Augmented Dimension slide+Hustle gives a magnificent chance to use Greater flurry (Go Tashalatora!).

The most annoying point of this build is delaying Warmind's Sweeping strike, but acquiring Thicket of blades is worth it...
#10
maulorn
Sep 04, 2008 13:02:36 What is the favored class of the Kalashtar?

Really the increased xp is often overlooked and may not even be a drawback depending on the DM.

You have Fighter, Monk, Crusader, and Hex that are not PrC's. You may start having to get additional xp either at 3rd or 5th depending on favored class, if this is even an issue.
#11
tshern
Sep 04, 2008 13:06:21 But they are no more than two levels apart... Is the limit a single level?
#12
maulorn
Sep 04, 2008 13:15:54 If any two of your milticlass character's classes are two or more levels apart, the strain of developing and maintaing different skills at different levels takes its toll. Your multiclass character suffers a -20% XP penalty for each class that is not within one level of his most expirenced class.

Favored class does not apply...

So it looks like you would run into a issue with Warblade 1 and Hexblade 3...

Also from the looks of it...it is only going to put a strain one 21+...so if your 21st lvl is Warblade it will bring you back into balance after you pay for it.

Again, if this is even a issue with the DM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rocklax Sep 03, 2008 8:28:39	Ok some help would be really nice. Don't flame me I'm a newb. 3.5 Any book allowed, my DM has EVERYTHING! Standard Point Buy System for Stats My character will be using a Spike Chain, other than that I am open to any race/class combo. This character has to be 6 ECL. Let's see them! I would like to play something a little different with some roleplaying opportunity. Eveyone in my group is either a human or half-elf. This character needs to be able to melee, our healer also died so I'd be up for some sort of healing type char as well...
#2 iconoplast Sep 03, 2008 11:11:34	Well, just to grab ideas from another thread: ECL 6: 0. Dragonborn of Bahamut template. 1. Goliath LA 2. Goliath Barbarian 1 (Mountain Rage) 3. Fighter 1 4. Fighter 2 (Dungeoncrasher) 5. Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 (Improved Trip) 6. Cleric 1 (War Domain, Deity w/ Spiked Chain as favored weapon). Feats: 1. Power Attack 3. Improved Bull Rush F1. Knockback 6. Shock Trooper. Dragonborn is in Races of the Dragon. Goliath (And the Goliath Barbarian Sub Level) are in Races of Stone. Wolf Totem Barbarian is in Unearthed Arcana. Dungeoncrasher Fighter is in Dungeonscape. Knockback is in Races of Stone. Shock Trooper is in Complete Warrior. End Result: On every swing, you do 2d6 (Large spiked chain) + 1.5 * Str. On every hit, you initiate a Bull Rush. If you bull rush them into wall, they take extra damage. If you bull rush opponents into each other, you get free trip attempts. Followup: You're going to want Cleave (since Cleave triggers on a Trip, RAW), and by the time the Dragonborn Template gives you wings, you'll want Battle Jump from Unapproachable East. Leap Attack can probably fit in there somewhere. Go Crusader after Cleric. Crusader means (1) you can do extra damage or heal when you swing, and (2) you heal every hit. Cleric means Weapon Proficiency & Weapon Focus in Spiked Chain. Cleric/Crusader means Ruby Knight Vindicator PrC, if you can get around the "Must Worship Wee Jas, who does NOT have Spiked Chain as his favored weapon" bit. Leap Attack is in Complete Adventurer. Crusader and Ruby Knight Vindicator are in Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.
#3 maulorn Sep 03, 2008 13:35:30	Human Crusader...AoO expert. You do not have to be human but the extra feat helps greatly for getting you set. Not only would you be able to control the battleground pretty darn good. You will be able to provide additional healing. Human: Combat Reflexes 1: Stand Still 3: Extra Granted Maneuver 6: Stone Power You could also go dwarf and go for the PrC in Nine Swords.
#4 rocklax Sep 04, 2008 7:53:42	Excuse my noobishness but what is AoO expert? For that matter on the boards I see gish too. What is that?
#5 iconoplast Sep 04, 2008 9:46:17	AoO expert = Attack of Opportunity. In 3.5, you take Attacks of Opportunity on your opponent's turn when he provokes them - by leaving a square you threaten, usually. That build is designed to make your opponent provoke them more often, and to make your AoOs more effective. Gish is shorthand for Fighter/Spellcaster. Most builds have 9th level spellcasting by level 20, a 16 BAB, and some other tricks. I'm going to repeat something else I said in the XCrawl fighter thread - if you're new to D&D 3.5, don't play a fighter. It's not the easiest class - the tank is the party role that requires the most finagling to be effective. Also, a spiked chain is an exotic weapon - you need a feat to be able to use it (Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain). Are you sure you want to use it? Why? For first time players, I really recommend three classes that seem pretty focused in their application, don't require a lot of sourcebooks and don't require a lot of arithmetic in play: o) a Sorcerer - you don't have to worry about memorizing spells multiple times, and you have a spell list in front of you that gives you the range of options of what you can do. o) a Heal-Bot Cleric - the Cleric is capable of a lot, but if you concentrate on Healing & Turning Undead, you will be useful to the party and there isn't too much to worry about. o) A Rogue - make sure to max out the necessary skills and then try to get off sneak attacks whenever you can.
#6 maulorn Sep 04, 2008 11:18:29	Yes I forgot the spiked chain as my current uses a diff reach... Pretty much you Provoke a AoO regardless of what the opponent tries...you punish them for attacking, not attacking, moving, not moving. It gets really nasty and you can use feats like Standstill to keep them in place and keep them from hitting softer targets.
#7 tshern Sep 04, 2008 11:27:06	Shamelessly tooting my own horn here: Tshern and I are going to be working on a revision of my lockdown build that assumes that mage slayer doesn't hit ML. If you play in a game that does think that, then just use 2.0. Fighter 2/ Monk 2/ Crusader 1/ Warmind 2/ Crusader +1/ Warmind +8/ Warblade 1/ Hexblade 3 Kalashtar. Feats: 1) Standstill F1) Power Attack F2) Mage Slayer 3) Knowledge Devotion M1) Combat Reflexes M2) Monastic Training 6) Weapon Focus(Guisarme) 9) Pole Master(Guisarme) 12) Tashalatora(Warmind) 15) Robilar's Gambit 18) Pierce magical protection Notable maneuvers to get: mountain hammer(crusader), White Raven Tactics(warblade), Iron Heart Surge(warblade) Stance: Thicket of blades (crusader) Items of note: * Belt of magnificence+6/Belt of battle * Skin of proteus * Heartseeking amulet with 4-6 charges a day * Torc of power preservation * +5 resistance bonus to saves with some item. Combined with the Torc? * Discipline weapon Powers selected: Expansion, Empty mind, Hustle, Dimension slide and Strength of my enemy
#8 maulorn Sep 04, 2008 11:42:11	That would be rough xp to get to there though it does have merit. How does it play as it progresses?
#9 tshern Sep 04, 2008 12:10:06	Where exactly does it incur XP penalty? Warmind is a prestige class and thus doesn't incur any negative effects. The only problem this build really has is the first two levels and even those are optimized. When it takes Crusader at level 5 it already qualifies for second level maneuvers, which is frigging awesome. Base saves at level 20 are 18/11/9, charisma to saves against spells and spell-like abilities, charisma to will saves, a crapload of excellent maneuvers, including White raven tactics and Ironheart surge and all those psionic powers just add to the overkill. Augmented Dimension slide+Hustle gives a magnificent chance to use Greater flurry (Go Tashalatora!). The most annoying point of this build is delaying Warmind's Sweeping strike, but acquiring Thicket of blades is worth it...
#10 maulorn Sep 04, 2008 13:02:36	What is the favored class of the Kalashtar? Really the increased xp is often overlooked and may not even be a drawback depending on the DM. You have Fighter, Monk, Crusader, and Hex that are not PrC's. You may start having to get additional xp either at 3rd or 5th depending on favored class, if this is even an issue.
#11 tshern Sep 04, 2008 13:06:21	But they are no more than two levels apart... Is the limit a single level?
#12 maulorn Sep 04, 2008 13:15:54	If any two of your milticlass character's classes are two or more levels apart, the strain of developing and maintaing different skills at different levels takes its toll. Your multiclass character suffers a -20% XP penalty for each class that is not within one level of his most expirenced class. Favored class does not apply... So it looks like you would run into a issue with Warblade 1 and Hexblade 3... Also from the looks of it...it is only going to put a strain one 21+...so if your 21st lvl is Warblade it will bring you back into balance after you pay for it. Again, if this is even a issue with the DM.