Hello there. I'm kinda new to the forums, but not that new to D&D. My friends and I have started up a group in our hometown and I'm helping our DM out a bit, but I still want to play, so I've created a Goliath Fighter, going for a ranged based character, I wanna see what you guys think. Are there any other things I can do to make my character as good as possible? Particularly in ranged combat, but other suggestions are good as well. Or if you think I should go with a different approach, I'll give you the group. The "Or"s are there because we may be shifting alignment of the whole game.
2. 5 feats?
3. One of your 5 feats is "Toughness"?
28-01-10, 15:23, -8 GMT, retro: 2. 3 (Archer) feats from custom class (choice).
Addendum: 15:24, -8 GMT, 28-01-10, there's a (Martial) Monk variant from Drag. Mag. that lets you grab any Fighter bonus feat without prereqs. Discovery by Tsuyoshikentsu.
That reminds me, I timestamped a message of mine on a document with the date as the 26th today...Oh well, it wasn't a time-dependent message.
As long as our DM reviews the Homebrew content, and approves it of course, then yes it's allowed.
Yes, they can use Knockback. (Maybe Awesome Blow as well, I'd have to look that up.) And assumably the Brutal Surge also.
The problem is (forgot to mention) I'm planning on being Ranged Based. Sorry, I'll edit my first post to specify.
Anything else, anyone? :'[
I used a (large) spiked chain for the extra reach, Goliath Barbarian 1st level alternate feature Mountain Rage from Races of Stone (you actually become Large when raging). In any kind of indoor/underground environment you just bash enemies into walls for ridiculous damage (10d6+ 4.5xStr Mod+PA).
Feats I took:
Knockback, Shocktrooper, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Cleave, Extra rage, EWP:Spiked Chain, Improved Bullrush.
Anything that provoked inside 20' when raging got smashed into a wall.
tsuyoshikentsu.pbworks.com/Alternative-T...
addendum: 29-01-10, 19:57, -8 GMT, I wish I could put a sticky of this post on this thread for everyone but the OP to see just because... you don't deserve this. Man, that sounds mean.
You may find that to be useful for ranged combat characters
Interesting...you lose the benefits if you wear medium/heavy armor, but wearing shields is mechanically ok. Do note then, that an archer can wear a buckler at no penalty (www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#b...), and while not being proficient means suffering its armor check penalty on attack rolls, a masterwork buckler has no armor check penalty. Cheap bonus AC is always handy.
If you insist on going Goliath and archer, at least check out the Cragtop Archer class from the same book (Races of Stone). I love that class.
Skills are an issue. An archer will likely need spot. Both in case the DM uses spot check results to determine the range an encounter starts at (as an archer, you want some space starting out) and if he's a jerk and thinks you need to roll spot to see anything at all out to a range (I've heard of DMs who say you need to roll DC 20 just to see 200 ft away -- that's less than two range increments!). Try to find some variant Fighter feature ot get it as a class skill.
Feats: Seriously, drop Toughness. It sucks and does nothing for your archery. I assume you're going towards Ranged Weapon Mastery via FIghter. If not, why are you even making him a Fighter? I would also rate Rapid Shot higher than Far Shot. At low levels, having two attacks is a big difference. Aside from those, many of the best archery feats usually require level 6+. I love Woodlands Archer tactical feat from Races of the Wild. Improved Rapid Shot (C.Warrior) is nice icing if you can spare the feat, to remove the -2 from Rapid Shot. Manyshot and Greater Manyshot are MUCH less useful to you than most archer builds, you may not even need them. Certainly not a priority. As soon as you have +11 BAB and a feat slot, pick up Improved Precise Shot. Not pegging your friend in a grapple or getting boned by concealment is a nice thing to have.
Gear: Look at the different types of arrows available in various books (Races of the Wild has a few in one place, I usually just check crystalkeep). As soon as you can afford a +3 equivalent bow, you'll want a +1 Force bow. Force (from Magic Item Compendium) costs a +2 market price and turns your arrows into force damage. Damage Reduction is the bane of all archers.
Class: Are you ok with multiclassing? Barbarian is promising. You can pick up the racial sub level for Mountain Rage, though only do so if the DM also lets you still take Whirling Frenzy: www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/class...
Whirling Frenzy gives you the option to take an extra attack, causing all attacks to suffer a -2 to hit, while the Frenzy lasts. In other words, it's identical (and stackable) with Rapid Shot. Pick up Extra Rage to do this a respectable 3 encounters/day, rather than raising higher in Barb (I think at least to level 2 is worth it for Uncanny Dodge, since you'll have a lot of dex to AC). Another option is to dip barb and trade in the rage for some free ranger goodies: www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia...
Basically, a two level dip gives you Rapid Shot and a favored enemy (plus the other Barb features besides rage). I think Whirling Fenzy is the better option, but both would be helpful.
Mmkay. So this is what my level 1 should look like, I'm thinking.
Fighter 1
ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 12.
AC: 15 Fort: 5 Reflex: 3 Will: 0
HP: 16
TRAINED SKILLS
Craft: Bowmaking +5, Intimidate +5, Spot +4
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Appraise +1, Balance +3, Bluff +1, Climb +5, Concentration +3, Diplomacy +1, Disguise +1, Escape Artist +3, Forgery +1, Gather Information +1, Hide +3, Jump +5, Listen +0, Move Silently +3, Ride +3, Search +1, Sense Motive +2, Survival +0, Swim +5, Use Rope +3
FEATS
Point Blank Shot Precise Shot
Far Shot
Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow)
Rapid Shot
WEAPONS AND ARMOR
Composite Longbow (Arrow x20) (Large)
Greatsword (Large)
Leather Armor
I decided to take the Barbarian variant that adopts a bit of ranger. So I suppose my level 5 would look like this... What feats should I be looking for at this point? I can't seem to find a whole lot to be helping my ranged, so should I get Dodge and Mobility to maybe get Shot on the Run... Or what?
Fighter 3 / Barbarian 2
ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 12.
AC: ? Fort: 9 Reflex: 4 Will: 1
HP: 13 + 2d10 + 2d12 (i.e. 31)
BAB: 5
TRAINED SKILLS
Craft: Bowmaking +9, Intimidate +6, Listen +4, Spot +8, Survival +3
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Appraise +1, Balance +3, Bluff +1, Climb +5, Concentration +3, Diplomacy +1, Disguise +1, Escape Artist +3, Forgery +1, Gather Information +1, Hide +3, Jump +5, Move Silently +3, Ride +3, Search +1, Sense Motive +2, Spot +0, Swim +5, Use Rope +3
FEATS
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Far Shot
Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow)
Rapid Shot
?????? Fighter Feat
???? 3rd Level Feat
ABILITIES
Fast Movement
Uncanny Dodge
Favored Enemy (Should I go Goblinoid or Giant?)
Also, check out the exoticist fighter variant on www.crystalkeep.com. It's from Dragon magazine, and essentially just gives you 3 free exotic weapon profs. Greatbow, for free? Sure!
Fighter 3 is a dead level. Ditch it, or go fighter 4 later at the very least (I wouldn't bother.) Feat rogue might be a good choice for a ranged character. Few extra skill points for spot/listen to detect enemies before they detect you.
Also, check out the exoticist fighter variant on www.crystalkeep.com. It's from Dragon magazine, and essentially just gives you 3 free exotic weapon profs. Greatbow, for free? Sure!
Well, yeah. He needs to go to at least Fighter 4 for Weapon Specialization (possibly all the way to 8 for Greater Weapon Focus, I forget) to get Ranged Weapon Mastery. Because again, if you're not in Fighter as an archer to eventually take that feat...why are you in Fighter?
Will you be going past level 5? If so, it's fine to be Fighter 3 / Barb 2 at that point, rather than Fighter 4 / Barb 1. Barb 2 is giving Rapid Shot and Uncanny Dodge, afterall. Worth more than +2 damage. That reminds me, though...
1) There is no reason at all (unless you find a way to make Spot a Fighter class skill) to take level 1 in Fighter over Barbarian. Barb 1 has 2 more hp and 8 more skill points than a Fighter 1. I guess waiting on Fighter 1 to get rid of the illiteracy is something... Otherwise, you should want ot grab Rapid Shot and Uncanny Dodge as early as possible: Start out Barb 2, or go Barb 1 / Fighter 1 / Barb +1 / Fighter x, if you must get a Fighter level in early.
2) It looks like you're taking Rapid Shot as a feat at level 1, only to later gain it from Barb. Unless your DM will let you retrain the old feat slot, that's incredibly wasteful.
3) How are you investing into spot like it's a class skill at Fighter 1?
4) Unless your DM's starting you off with a LOT of gold, how are you affording a large greatsword at level 1? Just use a large stick (I think Teddy Roosevelt calls 'em "clubs") for free and two-hand it for 1.5x str bonus on damage for your melee weapon. d8 +7 is plenty of damage at level 1, no need to blow so much money on melee when you're an archer. You need to save up your money to get a large masterwork composite longbow ASAP, with at least a +5 str rating. At least large doesn't pay double for the str bonus cost (I think...), but that's still around 1000 gp for a nonmagical weapon.
To answer your feat questions, that's the main problem. You picked a build that has virtualy no way of doing good damage beyond early levels. There aren't really many feats that can help. Use your big bow, keep your str to damage high (dex is the primary important stat, though), and full attack every round. Launching a couple 2d6 +5 or so damage missiles is at least respectable. After a while, psionic tattoos of Expansion (not a humanoid, can't use enlarge person) will be affordable. That will add to your str (might want to have a bow w/ higher str rating) and increase base damage to 3d6. For expansion, you want to definitely pay for at least manifester level 3, to pay the 2 power points to increase the duration from round/ML to 10 minutes/ML, since you're burning a round just activating it anyway.
Weapon Spec is a dumb feat. 2 damage? Really, 2? Forever? That sauce is weak.
With exoticist fighter as a goliath he can be wielding a Large Greatbow, doing 2d8 + str. That's not shabby if you can maximize your full attacks by playing smart. Travel devotion is a good way to do that, even if it's only once per day, it's still a free movement every round for a minute. That's longer than most encounters.
Raptor arrows from the MiC are useful once you get a little higher in level and can afford them.
Methods of seeing invis or true seeing can help pick out the squishies who might be hiding.
Weapon Spec is a dumb feat. 2 damage? Really, 2? Forever? That sauce is weak.
I agree. But you need it to eventually get Ranged Weapon Mastery, for an extra +2 attack and damage with just one feat. Of course, that's still pretty weak. Normally for an archer I would just make a Ranger or something, no more than a 2 level FIghter dip like you say. The OP wanted to mainly be a Fighter, though. I'm just trying to help him with that.
Methods of seeing invis or true seeing can help pick out the squishies who might be hiding.
Spot again comes in handy. With some ranks in it, you can get a skill trick from C.Scoundrel to detect invisible creatures for a round once/encounter.
A Dragon Mask from MIC is a cheap option. 5000 gp head or face slot (I forget, probably face slot), to use see invisibility 2/day as a swift action with a decent duration.
Anyone wanting to go mainly fighter is choosing to be suboptimal, so I can only advise to drop the idea in favor of going full BAB, which in spirit is the same thing, but in game mechanics can be a million times better.
I fully planned to take the majority of my character levels in fighter. I just used level five as a stepping stone. I would love to have the few extra skill points, but I’m not sure about the rogue’s abilities themselves. And the exoticist variant looks promising. I’m going to put some things down on paper and weigh my options before making my decision. Our campaign technically started but we have long breaks between sessions.
Also, I see what you’re saying about the Weap. Spec, but as Stream stated, needed it later on. And the more I review it the exoticist fighter is becoming more and more appealing. I doubt it, but maybe I can convince my DM to do a light-armored / exoticist fighter hybrid. :]
MiC?
@StreamOfTheSky
Just to reiterate what I told Bruce, I plan to take the mass of my levels in fighter, and the five was just a stepping stone. My DM did allow me to make a substitution in my class skills for spot, as long as I could justify it (easy enough for a Goliath).
1. But I get spot from Barbarian anyways, so do you think it’s worth it to lose a skill for one I could get another time? If it’s worth it, is it worth foregoing the extra skill points and health for gaining the feats to start level 1 as fighter?
2. Also, to be honest, I planned to take the ranger variant for Barb, that’s why I took the feat. Would the whirling frenzy be better?
3. See above.
4. I agree. I suppose a club would do me just fine. :]
I think you are both helping me tremendously! :D Thank you both very much.
...when attacking a flat-footed opponent within
30 feet, you can add your Dexterity bonus (if any) as a competence
bonus on weapon damage rolls.
MiC = Magic Item Compendium
What's not to be sure about with the Rogue's special abilities?
Two levels of Feat Rogue as first two levels = 40 skill points, BaB +1, two feats, trapfinding, evasion, average HP 9.5(+Con).
Two levels of Fighter as first two levels = 10 skills points, BaB +2, two feats, average HP 15(+Con)
Hmm, is a BaB +1 and 5.5 HP difference worth the 30 skill points and evasion?
I certainly don't think so.
It sounds to me like you're stuck on fighter because that's what you want your character to be, a fighter. Well, the fighter class makes for mediocre fighters, that's just the mechanics of the game. If you reflavor to your preferences, then a multiclass character makes much more sense as a fighter than an ill-educated brute with a handful of feats.
If i'm coming across as a condescending ****, it's because I'm drunk. Sorry, concert tonight. It happens.
@BruceLeeroy
I fully planned to take the majority of my character levels in fighter. I just used level five as a stepping stone. I would love to have the few extra skill points, but I’m not sure about the rogue’s abilities themselves. And the exoticist variant looks promising. I’m going to put some things down on paper and weigh my options before making my decision. Our campaign technically started but we have long breaks between sessions.
Also, I see what you’re saying about the Weap. Spec, but as Stream stated, needed it later on. And the more I review it the exoticist fighter is becoming more and more appealing. I doubt it, but maybe I can convince my DM to do a light-armored / exoticist fighter hybrid. :]
MiC?
@StreamOfTheSky
Just to reiterate what I told Bruce, I plan to take the mass of my levels in fighter, and the five was just a stepping stone. My DM did allow me to make a substitution in my class skills for spot, as long as I could justify it (easy enough for a Goliath).
1. But I get spot from Barbarian anyways, so do you think it’s worth it to lose a skill for one I could get another time? If it’s worth it, is it worth foregoing the extra skill points and health for gaining the feats to start level 1 as fighter?
2. Also, to be honest, I planned to take the ranger variant for Barb, that’s why I took the feat. Would the whirling frenzy be better?
3. See above.
4. I agree. I suppose a club would do me just fine. :]
I think you are both helping me tremendously! :D Thank you both very much.
1. Unless the DM is also houseruling Barbarian, barbarians get listen as a class skill, but not spot. I know, it's wierd, but some classes only get one of the two.
That said, I see no reason to take Fighter at level 1. Barb means a guaranteed +2 hp since first HD is maxed, and more importantly...MANY more skill points. You don't need the bonus feat at level 1, in my opinion. Barbarian just gives so much more at level 1.
2. I think from a sheer powergaming perspective, Whirling Frenzy + Extra Rage (to use it 3 encounters a day) would be better. You're going to be full attacking most rounds anyway, it's how you pump out your damage. An extra attack at highest BAB adds a lot of average damage to your build, and with full BAB, the extra -2 to hit shouldn't hurt too often. If you do face a high AC foe, you could always just choose to not use it. The ranger-like variant saves you a feat, while Whirling Frenzy actually sort of costs you one (without Extra Rage, 1/day is nice but far from reliable). So there is a trade-off. But! You're going mostly Fighter. You'll have TONS of feats. Saving one isn't as big a deal to you as it would be to other archer builds.
What I was saying, though, was it looked like you were taking Rapid Shot at level 1 as a Fighter. If you ARE doing the barbarian variant for ranger combat style, you're wasting a feat, because you get it at barb 2 anyway. That's all I meant.
4.
Don't forget the buckler! It's practically free AC.So, for level 6+, you should look into:
Woodland Archer tactical feat, Races of the Wild.
Improved Rapid Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Ranged Weapon Mastery
Psionic Tattoos of Expansion
Getting the Force special property (from Magic Item Compendium) on your bow
Any spell, ability, or boost from items or your allies that adds to the number of attacks you can make or bonus damage on attacks.
If you do get the Exoticist Fighter and use a greatbow, consider dipping into Exotic Weapon Master, if only for the ability to fire in melee.
...All I can remember right now.
*A few examples:
Blessed Aim (Cleric 1, Spell Compendium): It's like Bless, but for ranged attacks only, and double the attack bonus (+2). Nice and cheap to cast.
Haste
Flaming Arrows (works especially great if the arcanist has an energy substitution feat and can make it a different energy type)
Mass Snake's Swiftness (Druid 2, Sorc/Wiz 3, Spell Compendium): All allies in a fireball sized burst can make a single melee OR ranged attack instantly. Mostly mentioning it because if you happen to have a druid in the party and most of the party uses non-magical attacks, it can do a lot of damage for a level 2 slot.