Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sbranzo Jan 23, 2014 3:17:27	Hi, i'm going to start a new campaign and want to play a lvl 1 dread necro. i read most of the guides on the web, but i still have few thing to choose. First of all, my stats: 25 pts buy, not many...low STR or WIS?   STR.  8     11 DEX. 12.   14 CON. 10.   10 INT.    12    12 WIS.   13.    8 CHA.   16.   16   considering that low STR would give a carrying and comp. Longbow penalty and low WIS would deny the Arcane Disciple feat (deity domains death, evil, trickery) which do you think is the betteqr choice?   last question: spell focus or spell penetration? What's more useful at higher levels?
#2 daedhaed Jan 23, 2014 8:31:09	First of all, I'm sorry to hear about the low point buy. That's gotta hurt. Second of all you need an 18 charisma without question. You can always just grab a regular longbow and use it without penalty regardless of strength. You can do without arcane disciple but if you go that route you need a 13 in wisdom so that a +6 item will allow you to cast all the spells. Intelligence can be a dump stat. Spell penetration is more important at the early levels and focus later on.    What race are you gonna be?
#3 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 23, 2014 10:02:44	daedhaed wrote:
#4 Sbranzo Jan 23, 2014 10:32:27	Race will be human, so bomus feat and extra skill points. @slagger: i considered crossbow as replacement for bow if i keep STR 8   the main question is: it's worth spending feats, skill points and attribute points to learn spells from death, evil and/or trickery domain? Evil has desecrate at 2nd (great spell when raising undead), trickery has invisbility, the big polymorph any and time stop, death has animate dead one level earlier...
#5 daedhaed Jan 23, 2014 10:42:50	Ask you DM for the magic-blooded template.    I'm used to a 32 PB. I won't play with any less.    Really? You get a damage penalty for having low strength with a regular longbow? Where is this stated?   the feats for extra spells aren't really necessary. You get the effects of desecrate with a deadwalker's ring.
#6 Sbranzo Jan 23, 2014 11:09:37	daedhaed wrote:
#7 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 23, 2014 11:11:13	Whether or not it's worth it depends on how you're going to use the spells in question, but I'd put Trickery down as the most useful of those three domains, since it adds a variety of interesting effects that are otherwise completely outside of your repertoire.  Death is almost useless, since the only thing it offers you in terms of spells is slightly faster access to animate dead, which really isn't worth the investment when undead mastery is waiting at 8th level to give the minions you create another boost just as you get the spell on your class list. daedhaed wrote:
#8 daedhaed Jan 23, 2014 13:37:51	I still feel that 1d8-1 (minimum 1) with free action load is better that 1d8 with move action load. Really hurts your action economy. That's just me though I suppose.
#9 Krusk Jan 23, 2014 15:20:06	What other martial weapon are you going to pick? Take longbow as your choice, but you probably want to use a crossbow most of the time until you find the fighters hand me down str booster. I guess you could consider some sort of reach weapon, and get milage out of that. You've got DR, decent con, and armor. Poke over the fighters shoulders for a few levels. Low levels are deadly, and everyone is fragile. You not so much as others.    Your stats should be Cha > Dex = Con > Wis > Int > Str. 16 cha is do-able, but really the minimum I'd consider. Especially when you consider your peers at dread necro school can potentially have 20's. Thats a signifigant difference.    Also, when picking feats in a game starting at first level, don't pick whats useful at high levels. Odds are very good that even if your group swears up and down you will get there that you will not. Pick feats that are great now, and if you really want others consider retraining. You've got to survive to those high levels after all.
#10 daedhaed Jan 23, 2014 15:33:34	Great points all around Krusk.
#11 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 24, 2014 0:53:41	daedhaed wrote:
#12 ninjarabbit Jan 24, 2014 14:55:58	I would definately dump str, you're going to evemtually have undead minions to do damage and to carry stuff. However I really don't think it's worth it in this case to spend feats and ability points on Wis for arcane disciple, trickery is almost worth it but you don't get the good stuff until high levels and I don't know if the campaign is going to go that far.   The next question is are you planning on becoming undead or is the campaign going to go to level 20?   How about this if you're not planning on becoming undead str 9 dex 10 con 14 int 14 wis 8 cha 16   Feats: tomb-tainted soul, spell focus: necromancy
#13 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 24, 2014 15:35:10	RT just raised an unusual PrC choice to me, but the more I think about it in this context the more I like it - Paragnostic Apostle. The skill reqs mean you can't take it until your 9th character level (unless you get one more knowledge skill as a class skill somehow) - but since you're beelining for DN 8 for Undead Mastery anyway, this is not a real drawback.  It stacks for rebuking, and it gives little benefits that help with just about anything the DN does. The most obvious are these: See Through The Veil boosts rebuking level by 2 (see the Revised Necromancer Handbook for why turning level matters) as well as provides a DC boost for your undead-targeting necromancy spells (i.e. Command Undead), and Backhanded Attack adds bonuses to rider effects (i.e. when you deal damage and force a save against a secondary, nondamaging effect - Charnel Touch qualifies on its own, and can be used to add either damage or the rider effect to any other touch spell you use with it). The others are more situational, but no less impressive (I'd suggest Call of Worlds, which would give any undead you summon with Summon Undead spells the Fast Healing ability*, Divine Understanding, which boosts your CL for any spells that appear on a single domain (i.e. Deathbound), and Penetrating Insight (aids with SR piercing and any dispel checks you make; since you're probably dispelling from items, any little bit helps.)   It's a bit unconventional - I've never seen them paired together - but that's actually a surprisingly nice match.     *I'm not able to check what happens when you have a creature with Con -- and Fast Healing at the moment.
#14 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 24, 2014 17:48:36	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#15 Tempest_Stormwind Jan 24, 2014 18:39:02	Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
#16 Chiba_Monkey Jan 24, 2014 22:05:55	For a first level feat as a DN, I'd say it's hard to beat Tomb Tainted Soul.  The ability to self-heal is crucial to a low-level DN, who's more of a modestly good melee combatant than a primary spellcaster anyways.
#17 Slagger_the_Chuul Jan 24, 2014 23:19:04	Chiba_Monkey wrote: