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+4 LA

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
voodoo_doc
Apr 10, 2012 14:57:41 So my DM decided to give me a +4 LA for free, I'll be running this as a second character for our group, our first is a Doppleganger/rogue, our next is a tiefling/cleric, and our third is a vampire/ninja.

My rolls are 12, 15, 17, 16, 18 and 18.

Our party needs a meatshield or an arcane caster. My DM has mentioned that he wants an arcane caster.

I am pretty free to any books, can't use dragon magazine because my dm doesn't have access.

The characters are 8th-9th level.

My first Idea was to grab the Goliath and make a warhulk. Fully armored goliath smashing things could be extremely impressive, although I feel like that is waisting the good ability rolls i managed.

For an arcane caster though I have no idea. I'd like to stay away from warmage, if arcane spell caster way is going I'd like to stay with the versatility of a true caster.

Thanks for your help guys, just wanted to know what you would do with a free +4 LA in these two aspects.
#2
Maat_Mons
Apr 10, 2012 15:32:33
For a meat shield, mineral warrior (Underdark) and Lolth-touched (Monster Manual IV) are both good. Lolth touched give +6 str, +6 con, and immunity to fear for +1 LA. Feral (Savage Species) is also good, but some DMs think it's too good. It provides +4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -4 int, +2 wis, and fast healing 2 for +1 LA.

The primordial giant template (Secrets of Xen'drik) give -4 str, -2 con, +4 int, +4 cha for +0 LA. It can only be applied to a creature with the giant type, so you'd need to use half-giant (Expanded Psionics Handbook) as the base. This could be a good base for the other three templates, since it offsets the mental ability score penalties.
#3
voodoo_doc
Apr 10, 2012 16:05:30 Wow, was so focused on monsters as pcs didn't even think too look at stacking templates. Thanks for the input, opened up a whole new can of worms.
#4
Count_Von_CoC
Apr 10, 2012 20:57:18
Wow, was so focused on monsters as pcs didn't even think too look at stacking templates. Thanks for the input, opened up a whole new can of worms.

Another option would be to do both. An interesting option would be to use a primordial gian half-giant and find a +3 LA (or multiple that will add up to that) that offer Wis and/or Int bonuses. Then you could tank AND be an arcane caster by going the Arcane Heirophant (Races of the Wild) route.

#5
voodoo_doc
Apr 15, 2012 16:57:50 So i finally got built these two characters, a Goliath mineral warrior half earth elemental, my dm didn't let me have the lloth touched or feral. What ya gonna do?

Guy is tossing boulders that are almost 1000lbs. Dumber than a ton of bricks, and fun to play.

Pulled out the Primordial Giant Half-giant half elemental, guy is now smashing through the streets hurling a few bolts of death. It's been fun and thanks for the ideas guys.

Now onto the next big ideas, looking to build a monk. Thinking Thri-kreen Monk with Multi-attack could be fun.

Thanks guys.
#6
Tempest_Stormwind
Apr 15, 2012 18:27:44
Now onto the next big ideas, looking to build a monk. Thinking Thri-kreen Monk with Multi-attack could be fun.

I would reconsider that. The monk is bad enough even before you factor in the thri-kreen's racial hit dice and level adjustment - it's solidly Tier Five.

If you want the oodles-of-attacks thing, consider totemists (Magic of Incarnum) or a Tiger Claw specialist. Or both.

#7
salarion
Apr 16, 2012 2:53:13 Half-Fiend can add up to +16 to stats. Now it says you shouldn't add more than +8 to any single ability but it doesn't say you musn't.

You also gain a few abilites and SR

it's +4.

Another thing you can consider are God-Touched templates modeled after Lolth-Touched.

#8
Balthanon
Apr 16, 2012 20:23:43 If your DM wants an arcane caster still and you're building for that, consider something like the sylph or an ethergaunt, which have inherent spellcasting that you can build upon. A straight sylph 8 (8 sylph hit dice + 1 LA + 4 free LA) would have a caster level of 12, improved invisibility at will, +8 BAB, +6 in all saves, 8d8 hit dice, SR 19, flight, decent stats and a few other nice features. If you want to toss class abilities into the mix, you can mix it up with something other than racial hit dice since they only have three by default-- outsider hit dice are just nice enough that they're worth taking.

There's a full list here if you're interested in that route: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... . Black ethergaunt is the gold standard for this kind of thing, but they're ECL 20 unfortunately.
#9
The_Fred
Apr 18, 2012 8:34:30 The Unbodied (XPH/SRD) is a similar (though Psionic option). You can cast as a 4th-level Telepath, but have Monstrous Humanoid HD instead of sucky Psion HD. If you take more Psion levels, they stack (effectively your 4 racial HD ARE Psion levels, but with better HP etc. instead of a feat). You can get into Slayer pretty easily with this too (since you get a BAB boost from your racial HD). The +4 LA makes it a tough option normally... but could be very cool here. You're incorporeal, which can cause a lot of problems, but makes you something not to be messed with lightly (and you can use Telekinetic Force or something at will anyway - you could literally throw that vampire at the enemy).

Driders are I think the lowest-ECL races with actual spellcasting already in the SRD - that list is really useful, though!
#10
Balthanon
Apr 18, 2012 9:10:33 Aranea are slightly lower, but I would say drider is probably a better choice over all for the same level adjustment in terms of abilities. Though magical beast hit dice are better than abberation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 voodoo_doc Apr 10, 2012 14:57:41	So my DM decided to give me a +4 LA for free, I'll be running this as a second character for our group, our first is a Doppleganger/rogue, our next is a tiefling/cleric, and our third is a vampire/ninja. My rolls are 12, 15, 17, 16, 18 and 18. Our party needs a meatshield or an arcane caster. My DM has mentioned that he wants an arcane caster. I am pretty free to any books, can't use dragon magazine because my dm doesn't have access. The characters are 8th-9th level. My first Idea was to grab the Goliath and make a warhulk. Fully armored goliath smashing things could be extremely impressive, although I feel like that is waisting the good ability rolls i managed. For an arcane caster though I have no idea. I'd like to stay away from warmage, if arcane spell caster way is going I'd like to stay with the versatility of a true caster. Thanks for your help guys, just wanted to know what you would do with a free +4 LA in these two aspects.
#2 Maat_Mons Apr 10, 2012 15:32:33	For a meat shield, mineral warrior (Underdark) and Lolth-touched (Monster Manual IV) are both good. Lolth touched give +6 str, +6 con, and immunity to fear for +1 LA. Feral (Savage Species) is also good, but some DMs think it's too good. It provides +4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -4 int, +2 wis, and fast healing 2 for +1 LA. The primordial giant template (Secrets of Xen'drik) give -4 str, -2 con, +4 int, +4 cha for +0 LA. It can only be applied to a creature with the giant type, so you'd need to use half-giant (Expanded Psionics Handbook) as the base. This could be a good base for the other three templates, since it offsets the mental ability score penalties.
#3 voodoo_doc Apr 10, 2012 16:05:30	Wow, was so focused on monsters as pcs didn't even think too look at stacking templates. Thanks for the input, opened up a whole new can of worms.
#4 Count_Von_CoC Apr 10, 2012 20:57:18	Wow, was so focused on monsters as pcs didn't even think too look at stacking templates. Thanks for the input, opened up a whole new can of worms. Another option would be to do both. An interesting option would be to use a primordial gian half-giant and find a +3 LA (or multiple that will add up to that) that offer Wis and/or Int bonuses. Then you could tank AND be an arcane caster by going the Arcane Heirophant (Races of the Wild) route.
#5 voodoo_doc Apr 15, 2012 16:57:50	So i finally got built these two characters, a Goliath mineral warrior half earth elemental, my dm didn't let me have the lloth touched or feral. What ya gonna do? Guy is tossing boulders that are almost 1000lbs. Dumber than a ton of bricks, and fun to play. Pulled out the Primordial Giant Half-giant half elemental, guy is now smashing through the streets hurling a few bolts of death. It's been fun and thanks for the ideas guys. Now onto the next big ideas, looking to build a monk. Thinking Thri-kreen Monk with Multi-attack could be fun. Thanks guys.
#6 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 15, 2012 18:27:44	Now onto the next big ideas, looking to build a monk. Thinking Thri-kreen Monk with Multi-attack could be fun. I would reconsider that. The monk is bad enough even before you factor in the thri-kreen's racial hit dice and level adjustment - it's solidly Tier Five. If you want the oodles-of-attacks thing, consider totemists (Magic of Incarnum) or a Tiger Claw specialist. Or both.
#7 salarion Apr 16, 2012 2:53:13	Half-Fiend can add up to +16 to stats. Now it says you shouldn't add more than +8 to any single ability but it doesn't say you musn't. You also gain a few abilites and SR it's +4. Another thing you can consider are God-Touched templates modeled after Lolth-Touched.
#8 Balthanon Apr 16, 2012 20:23:43	If your DM wants an arcane caster still and you're building for that, consider something like the sylph or an ethergaunt, which have inherent spellcasting that you can build upon. A straight sylph 8 (8 sylph hit dice + 1 LA + 4 free LA) would have a caster level of 12, improved invisibility at will, +8 BAB, +6 in all saves, 8d8 hit dice, SR 19, flight, decent stats and a few other nice features. If you want to toss class abilities into the mix, you can mix it up with something other than racial hit dice since they only have three by default-- outsider hit dice are just nice enough that they're worth taking. There's a full list here if you're interested in that route: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... . Black ethergaunt is the gold standard for this kind of thing, but they're ECL 20 unfortunately.
#9 The_Fred Apr 18, 2012 8:34:30	The Unbodied (XPH/SRD) is a similar (though Psionic option). You can cast as a 4th-level Telepath, but have Monstrous Humanoid HD instead of sucky Psion HD. If you take more Psion levels, they stack (effectively your 4 racial HD ARE Psion levels, but with better HP etc. instead of a feat). You can get into Slayer pretty easily with this too (since you get a BAB boost from your racial HD). The +4 LA makes it a tough option normally... but could be very cool here. You're incorporeal, which can cause a lot of problems, but makes you something not to be messed with lightly (and you can use Telekinetic Force or something at will anyway - you could literally throw that vampire at the enemy). Driders are I think the lowest-ECL races with actual spellcasting already in the SRD - that list is really useful, though!
#10 Balthanon Apr 18, 2012 9:10:33	Aranea are slightly lower, but I would say drider is probably a better choice over all for the same level adjustment in terms of abilities. Though magical beast hit dice are better than abberation.