Acme, a Warforged Duskblade 20
Somewhat less optimal than what I would like, but it is simplistic, which is what this build is going for.
Feats:
1st: Adamantine Body
Flaw 1: Duskblade Standard
Flaw 2: Duskblade Standard
3rd: Duskblade Standard
6th: Battle Caster (Heavy armor)
9th: Arcane Disciple (Domain that grants any Polymorph subschool spell)
12th: Duskblade Standard
15th: Minor Shapeshift
18th: Dimensional Jaunt
So, the trick behind this is that it fights like your standard Duskblade, but uses a Glaive and the Warforged Slam to cover your other primary caster against massive mooks.
Until, that is, 18th level. A while back, I read an interesting little question about the different materials that make up a Warforged character's body affecting their weight. I can't seem to find it to save my life, but I'm sure someone will find this interesting little fluff that they posted (perhaps it was in Races of Eberron? I'm not too sure).
What does this have to do with the build above? Well, according to that little bit of fluff they posted, a Warforged with the Adamantine Body feat multiplies his weight by a factor of 10. The average weight for a Warforged is roughly 450 lbs. That means one feat ups your starting weight to two and 1/4 a ton.
You remember the old trick with Shapechange, where you turn into something with a high fly speed and get up above your victim as high as you could, then turn into a whale? And drop on them like a ton of bricks on steroids?
Same idea here.
The rules for Falling Object damage have been invoked numerous times for shenanigans like that, and this is no different, except in the ways that it is.
As a swift action, you active the Minor Shapeshift feat, gaining a handful of Temporary HP for the coming fall.
As a standard action, you activate the Dimensional Jaunt feat, teleporting yourself up to 20ft in any direction you choose. Let's choose 20ft, right above the enemy's head.
The rules checks to see what you weigh before you fall, sees that you are 4500 lbs. and sees that you are dropping 20ft. The damage that results from this is 20d6.
That's 20d6, no attack roll, no SR, no save for half.
What's the point of the temp HP? You take 2d6 falling damage. No big deal. 12 points of damage is pitiful. It doesn't even go through the temp HP you have from Minor Shapeshift.
So, at the cost of two feats, and some HP damage, you are outdamaging the Warlock class (with Hellfire Warlock, but sans Quicken or Eldritch Glaive) and doing so with nothing but damage rolls all day long.
Congratulations, you are no legally able to call yourself the Acme Anvil.
Hardly 4500lbs.
Also, you can't cast Duskblade spells for your first 5 levels. That sucks.
Also, it is my understanding that creatures are permitted a DC15 Reflex save to completely avoid falling objects.
Also, it is my understanding that creatures are permitted a DC15 Reflex save to completely avoid falling objects.
Have a reference for that?
I just reread the rules on falling objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm) and there's no reference for a save negates.
That said, yeah, he could probably just expansion himself or something if he wanted to do this trick.
k.
Have a reference for that?
I just reread the rules on falling objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm) and there's no reference for a save negates.
Huh. Do you know what, I don't - you're quite right, it isn't in the SRD. Why do I think that then?
Is it in the expanded rules in the back of Complete Warrior?
Weird.
I can just see the BBEG looking up when he sees a massive shadow covering him and staring morosely at the camera, then opening a tiny umbrella moments before the impact.
Not the exact image in question, but close enough to get the job done.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a is the article. It specifies that an Adamantine Body warforged has a base weight of 320lb with a weight modifier of 2d6x6lb.
Hardly 4500lbs.
Also, you can't cast Duskblade spells for your first 5 levels. That sucks.
Also, it is my understanding that creatures are permitted a DC15 Reflex save to completely avoid falling objects.
Average of 353. Not exactly 4500 lbs of death, but it still gets 20d6 over 20ft of distance.
And this build was never meant to be anything more than proof to a fellow player that the Warlock is far from overpowered, if any spellcaster can do this provided two spells of at least 4th level. And a CL of 12th.
Really, if we want to remove the damage cap and do something really stupid with this, there is a flaw that doubles your weight IIRC. Take that, grab one of your feats. Then devote yourself to an Elder Evil for Willing Deformity (Obese), and pick up Hidden Talent (Expansion) and call it an afterlife.
Obviously, this is against the normal, everyday Warlock you see in games that don't involve optimization. Against the Glaivelock, this is pitiful. But 20d6, no save, no SR, no attack rolls is pretty damn twisted, especially when it is able to do everything the standard Optimized Duskblade is capable of (at least past level 6). Glaivelock takes 1 Con, needs 3+ attacks, a level dip into a class that only one race has as Favored, and a few SR checks 60% of the time just to work.
Acme just likes falling on people's heads.
20d6 is more effective damage at level one.
As for the original build, Duskblades often benefit from a level of Sand Shaper for more spells.
Since you don't seem to bothered about number of spells/day, a Battle Sorcerer 19/Sand Shaper 1 might also get you the required spells earlier.
Why Didn't I post my Findings? Because Winning the battle that way may be funny but a complete breaking of the game.
"Just as characters take damage when they fall MORE than so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects...
...Charts...examples...words...
Summary:
200Lbs from 20 ft does 1d6 damage + 1d6 for every extra 200 Lbs + 1d6 for extra 10 ft of height.
So a 405 Lbs Warforge (not impossible if standard is 353 and you get variant for being a little tall or something) from 20 ft will do 3d6 damage.
Check out falling damage page 303 of the DMG
"Just as characters take damage when they fall MORE than so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects...
...Charts...examples...words...
Summary:
200Lbs from 20 ft does 1d6 damage + 1d6 for every extra 200 Lbs + 1d6 for extra 10 ft of height.
So a 405 Lbs Warforge (not impossible if standard is 353 and you get variant for being a little tall or something) from 20 ft will do 3d6 damage.
It seems my curse has yet again struck me. I need to get the full 20d6 from falling object damage with a character within at most 30ft of distance dropped.
I came across this plan a while back. I don't know why your doing it with an Duskblade when a Artificer or Cleric actually have a couple spells that change a characters wieght. The Iron Construct infusion (X5) and Righteous (X8) for a total of X40 because Righteous Might is a size Mod and Iron Construct is a Enhancement bonus. Another note all the stat mods Stack as well and the Damage per distance fallen is the only thing limited to 20d6, so a 6-2 200lbs Mithral body Warforged can do 40d6+1d6 falling to a target plus 1d6 to himself by falling 10 feet. So who needs Duskblades when an Warforged Artificer named Anvil with Mithral Body feat a Etched Schemas for Iron Construct, Righteous Might and Greater Invisiblity could do it and be better prepared once he lands.
Why Didn't I post my Findings? Because Winning the battle that way may be funny but a complete breaking of the game.
But then you are wasting resources and needing preparation time. I'm going for something that can be done in 1 round, all damn day, every day of the year.
You know, rather than taking Dimensional Jaunt, you could get a level of Conjurer with the Abrupt Jaunt feature. That'd let you drop on people from level 1 if you wanted to.
20d6 is more effective damage at level one.
As for the original build, Duskblades often benefit from a level of Sand Shaper for more spells.
Since you don't seem to bothered about number of spells/day, a Battle Sorcerer 19/Sand Shaper 1 might also get you the required spells earlier.
As pointed out above, the trick doesn't work all of the way. I now need to brainstorm for a way to do this all day long without prep time. We did it with Chuck, we can do it with this.
Couldn't we do this with a Shadow Hand Swordsage as well? The Shadow Jaunt line of manuevers doesn't say you can't teleport up in the air, so we could have a kind of...
Multi bouncer? Boing! Full round action doing 60d6 damage... for just falling on someone's head.
Also, world's fattest ninja.
One thing always bugged me. Shouldn't falls or falling objects do bludgeoning damage(barring exceptional landing/sharp items), and thus be vulnerable to Damage Reduction? Then again, yet another flaw in D&D...
I know. I always thought DR was effective against falling damage myself until I reread the rules for making this trick. It bugs me, and the fact that there is a damage cap instead of instagibing when you hit a certain altitude at a certain speed makes my Skies of Arcadia games a little less threatening (though the high pressure from hitting Deep Sky in those games can kill pretty much everything).
We need to either increase the weight more (i.e. hitting 4000 pounds) or fall from higher up...
So find someone to Enlarge person you, which modifies weight by a whopping x8. Using D&D math for non real numbers that puts you up to x13 the 405 Lbs, which clears the 4000 by 1200 Lbs.
I like the idea of this, it's funny :D. Does the multiplier stack for the Obese flaw (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Obese_%28DnD_Flaw%29) and Deformity (Obese)? In that case you'd be x6 normal weight o-O
Couldn't we do this with a Shadow Hand Swordsage as well? The Shadow Jaunt line of manuevers doesn't say you can't teleport up in the air, so we could have a kind of...
Multi bouncer? Boing! Full round action doing 60d6 damage... for just falling on someone's head.
Also, world's fattest ninja.
Yes! That's it exactly then! The weight would be doubled, re-doubled, and then re-re-doubled via the WD:Obese feat!
Lets see, assuming this follows the standard multipliers of DnD, that results in a fourfold increase in weight.
12d6. Still short of the full 20d6. We need to work fatter! I want to avoid item dependency for this until we get to the point of Overkill. Once we hit the 20d6, the kiddie gloves come off, and we put the Gib in Instagib.
So find someone to Enlarge person you, which modifies weight by a whopping x8. Using D&D math for non real numbers that puts you up to x13 the 405 Lbs, which clears the 4000 by 1200 Lbs.
He's a warforged, Enlarge Person is a no go. However, expansion is at our disposal.
But then you are wasting resources and needing preparation time. I'm going for something that can be done in 1 round, all damn day, every day of the year.
Etched Schemas are Once per day scrolls actually and can hold any spell or Infusion up to 6th level. So honestly having more then one set would allow you to do it during multiple battles a day. And you would have the same Supply the following morning. Plus with the Quicken Spell feat you can use Spell Metamagic spell completion ability that Artificers get to Quicken the activation of a Schema. Also the Iron Construct Infusion lasts 1 min/Caster Level and Artificers are Spontanous Casters so it lasts longer then normal. So drop the Greater Invis and you have 1 round prep time. And I would of thought that Falling was a Free action but I may be wrong. Another note is mine can be done by an 8th level Artificer with 2 rounds of Prep time. At higher levels a Artificer can use class abilities to Persist Rightoues might as well.
I also think that if you pull this once then a DM will start putting Roofs over bad guys heads the next time you go into battle but that is an issue between you and your DM.
Dragonborn doesn't change weight or height.
Uh, WRONG.
... becomes larger and full bodied in her new form, gaining 1-2 inches of height and 5%-10% in weight.
If you turned Good after taking Deformity (Obese), would you suddenly lose weight? I thought all you'd lose out of that feat is the +2 to Intimidate.
A really fat Dragonforged ninja. o-O This is getting weirder and weirder!
DM: what do you do?
Player: I cast stone drop as a free action then teleport 30 ft. into the area above the enemy and fall an equivlant of 60 ft.
Also the Iron body spell is level 8 earth domain or wizard/sorcerer and increases your weight by 10x
Also the Iron body spell is level 8 earth domain or wizard/sorcerer and increases your weight by 10x
I forgot about that spell. Righteous Might and Iron Body working together would be X80 and could be Persisted by a DMM Cleric. A build that could be Pulled off by 13th level. Congrats you now can do it all day every day.
Also the Iron body spell is level 8 earth domain or wizard/sorcerer and increases your weight by 10x
Interestingly enough, you can get a continuous/command word activated item of Iron Body for 128,000gp if you get a Divine Crusader of the Earth to build it (they get it at Class Level 8, which is when they learn it). Not practical for a real game, but something to keep in mind.
I'm confused about someone with Deformity (Obese) changing alignments. By RAW, they would instantly be third their weight, but this is physically impossible! Also, it doesn't actually seem that Vile XP. More of a neutral act, if you ask me.
But in the end our Dragonforged has (if we keep the weight from DO.):
Base weight 405lbs (Adamantine Body).
x2 (Flaw: Obese) (810lbs)
x3 (Deformity (Obese)) (2430)
+10% Dragonborn (2690lbs)
x8 Enlarge Person (Dragonforged would be Humanoid (Living Construct, Dragonblood))
21,384lbs. I got the math terribly wrong here! I'm sure of it! I never did get D&D maths. The unbuffed weight doesn't seem physically possible, either. Would make an incredibly effective falling object, though.
Enlarge person could be argued to be an after effect giving it full multiplier but for the purist lets say that's it's non real too and use D&D math for only x7
Meaning 1765x7=12,355 Lbs at large size meaning you can get up to 4 foes with this!
12,355 Lbs. is enough to clear the 20d6 from 20 ft hurtle. Bouncy ball Dragonforge!
x8 Enlarge Person (Dragonforged would be Humanoid (Living Construct, Dragonblood))
Dragonborn don't change the Creature's base type so a Dragonborn Warforged would still be a Construct, not a Humanoid, so Enlarge person doesn't work. He would have the Dragon Blooded type though. Its the reason I have been using Righteous Might Instead of Enlarge Person.
*snip*1765lbs unbuffed
12,355 Lbs buffed*snip*
Bouncy ball Dragonforge!
This works even better since it just requires one magical item. Better than DMM since you can't be dispelled. Unfortunately, you're only 1765lbs unbuffed so antimagic fields aren't your friends.
Preliminary Build here:
Warforged
Feats:
Flaw (Obese): Willing Deformity
Flaw (Murky-Eyed): Deformity (Obese)
1) Adamantine Body
3) Adaptive Style
6) ???
9) ???
12) ???
15) ???
18) ???
Swordsage 20
Ergo, this trick can start at 3rd level, when the Dragonforged Ninja gains Shadow Jaunt. Once per two rounds, he can travel 20ft up and land on an enemy 30ft away. Then when he gains the other ones:
Round by Round Tactics:
Swift) Shadow Blink ontop of enemy. 20d6 damage.
Move) Shadow Stride ontop of enemy. 20d6 damage.
Standard) Shadow Jaunt ontop of enemy. 20d6 damage.
Round 2) Do a little light stretching to regain manuevers. (Hah.)
Round 3) Repeat Round 1.
And this isn't including capless weight! AND he can do all other kinds of Swordsage goodies, it just takes a couple of feats and three manuvers.
Multibouncer ho!
Dragonborn don't change the Creature's base type so a Dragonborn Warforged would still be a Construct, not a Humanoid, so Enlarge person doesn't work. He would have the Dragon Blooded type though. Its the reason I have been using Righteous Might Instead of Enlarge Person.
God damn Dragonborn template! D:. How are we gonna get a reliable way of getting Righteous Might...?
Hmm. Maybe we could Divine Crusader (Strength) and adapt the RKV? No... would require Devoted Spirit things for that.
Incarnate Construct would remove their Adamantine Armor, right?
in the dragonborn racial traits it says:
"Humaniod(dragonblood): dragonborn are HUMANOIDS with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race."
But under the mechanics it states:
"Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. you still count as a member of your original race for the purposes of any effet or prerequisite that depends on race."
they seem to contradict themselves to me.
4500 lbs. of Stupid
...the list of CustServ answers?
...the list of CustServ answers?
No, the index to their dumb answers...
Isn't this basically the same thing as the ancient cleric build with a fat half-orc casting Enlarge Person and jumping on people?
Aren't there like pogo-legs for Warforged in one of the Eberron books? Cause that would be awesome. Totally new meaning to "Spring Attack"
Isn't this basically the same thing as the ancient cleric build with a fat half-orc casting Enlarge Person and jumping on people?
Yes, but taken to an absurd extreme :P.
Okay, got one!
Crusader 1/Swordsage 7/Ur Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10
Feats:
Flaw (Obese): Willing Deformity
Flaw (Murky Eyed): Deformity (Obese)
1) Adamantine Body
3) Iron Will
6) Spell Focus (Evil)
9) Adaptive Style
12) ???
15) ???
18) ???
Pretty average build, avoiding DMM Persist cheese, since we want our combo to work as early as possible. I don't know whether Ur Priest still needs Iron Will + Spell Focus (evil) or just Spell Focus (Evil) as I only have the BoVD on me. Focus on doing your combo then ASing your stuff back and repeating it, or beating down the enemy.
Righteous Might should be able to get you big enough to 60d6 four squares.
I'm not a good optimiser, so I dunno.
God damn Dragonborn template! D:. How are we gonna get a reliable way of getting Righteous Might...?
Hmm. Maybe we could Divine Crusader (Strength) and adapt the RKV? No... would require Devoted Spirit things for that.
Incarnate Construct would remove their Adamantine Armor, right?
No, it doesn't, as the Adamantine Body is a feat not a racial trait.
Also, he could do this three times in one round if he was willing to take damage (and knew all three of the teleportation maneuvers). 60d6 damage at will (albeit slowly) is indeed dangerous.
...the list of CustServ answers?
Brilliant!
Yes, but taken to an absurd extreme :P.
Okay, got one!
Crusader 1/Swordsage 7/Ur Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10
Feats:
Flaw (Obese): Willing Deformity
Flaw (Murky Eyed): Deformity (Obese)
1) Adamantine Body
3) Iron Will
6) Spell Focus (Evil)
9) Adaptive Style
12) ???
15) ???
18) ???
Pretty average build, avoiding DMM Persist cheese, since we want our combo to work as early as possible. I don't know whether Ur Priest still needs Iron Will + Spell Focus (evil) or just Spell Focus (Evil) as I only have the BoVD on me. Focus on doing your combo then ASing your stuff back and repeating it, or beating down the enemy.
Righteous Might should be able to get you big enough to 60d6 four squares.
I'm not a good optimiser, so I dunno.
Free up some feats via Elder Evil devotion. RAW, he can still be a RKV. He's just hell-bent on killing every living being in the multiverse. This allows Adaptive Style to be at 1st level, and adds in another feat for us to work with.
Also, world's fattest ninja.
You mean him?
Also, what would be the pro/con of taking some Horizon Walker to get a backup teleport in the event that you need to flee in between the recharges?
Aren't there like pogo-legs for Warforged in one of the Eberron books? Cause that would be awesome. Totally new meaning to "Spring Attack"
I am totally sigging that.
Free up some feats via Elder Evil devotion. RAW, he can still be a RKV. He's just hell-bent on killing every living being in the multiverse. This allows Adaptive Style to be at 1st level, and adds in another feat for us to work with.
Wow. This build gets eviller and eviller as time goes on. Is there an Elder Evil of Consumption? Like, it wants to eat the world? Might fit in here :P Also, shouldn't the title be "12,390lbs of Stupid" since we're already past 4500? :P
You mean him?
Maybe. Could also be the Great White Ninja.
---------
Hmm. I wonder if it's possible to incorporate the Lancer build into this. I mean, we COULD be doing 20d6 damage with each action type, but can falling also be counted as a charge? If we made a multipouncer also do this, then they'd be a multi-bouncing pouncer! So that +20d6 per full attack would be gravy on top of full attacks! Multi-bouncing pouncing lancing. They kinda rhyme if you have the right accent ;)
Wow. This build gets eviller and eviller as time goes on. Is there an Elder Evil of Consumption? Like, it wants to eat the world? Might fit in here :P
Maybe. Could also be the Great White Ninja.
---------
Hmm. I wonder if it's possible to incorporate the Lancer build into this. I mean, we COULD be doing 20d6 damage with each action type, but can falling also be counted as a charge?
There's an item in the MiC that grants extra damage if you "charge" an opponent from 10 feet up or so. Something similar to that could be worked out here?
Wow. This build gets eviller and eviller as time goes on. Is there an Elder Evil of Consumption? Like, it wants to eat the world? Might fit in here :P
Maybe. Could also be the Great White Ninja.
---------
Hmm. I wonder if it's possible to incorporate the Lancer build into this. I mean, we COULD be doing 20d6 damage with each action type, but can falling also be counted as a charge?
Atropus, the Leviathan, there are 13 to choose from, I'm sure one is gluttony-based.
Also, no, this is not Tubbimura, no matter how appropriate that is. He is a Warforged, after all.
Atropus, the Leviathan, there are 13 to choose from, I'm sure one is gluttony-based.
Also, no, this is not Tubbimura, no matter how appropriate that is. He is a Warforged, after all.
Atropus IIRC was based on the Atropal from the Epic Level Handbook. Assuming their motives are the same, Atropus would want to turn every living creature into an undead.
Would Wee Jas, Goddess of Death and Magic, have a problem with this? I think she wouldn't mind a prime world or two ruled by an evil undead stillborn god and the local necromancers.
Atropus IIRC was based on the Atropal from the Epic Level Handbook. Assuming their motives are the same, Atropus would want to turn every living creature into an undead.
Would Wee Jas, Goddess of Death and Magic, have a problem with this? I think she wouldn't mind a prime world or two ruled by an evil undead stillborn god and the local necromancers.
According to the fluff, his goal is actually to consume every ounce of Positive Energy (including living creatures) to regain what he lost when the multiverse was first created. He doesn't want to rule, he wants to live again.
I doubt Wee-Jas has a problem with undead (goddess of Death and all that) and considering that most of the rabble associates her with necromancers anyway.
Are the damage rules for falling on someone the same for throwing insanely large and heavy objects at them? (Read Hulking Hurler)
Seems to be 1d6 per 200 lbs in both cases. So falling has a cap at 20d6 whereas throwing objects don't?
Mechanically that seems fine, since falling grants no saves, whereas throwing does, but I was trying to figure out it was possible to bypass the cap.
I'm trying to get something straight.
Are the damage rules for falling on someone the same for throwing insanely large and heavy objects at them? (Read Hulking Hurler)
Seems to be 1d6 per 200 lbs in both cases. So falling has a cap at 20d6 whereas throwing objects don't?
Mechanically that seems fine, since falling grants no saves, whereas throwing does, but I was trying to figure out it was possible to bypass the cap.
Oddly enough, I think they are. If so, then WotC screwed up.
Hmm... The problem with dragonborn is the two different lines about them
in the dragonborn racial traits it says:
"Humaniod(dragonblood): dragonborn are HUMANOIDS with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth. For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race."
But under the mechanics it states:
"Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. you still count as a member of your original race for the purposes of any effet or prerequisite that depends on race."
they seem to contradict themselves to me.
They don't.
Using pure logic :
1) Dragonborns are humanoids
2) Dragonborns retain their type
Hence you need to be humanoid to undergo the Ritual and become Dragonborn.
But people generally ignore those RAW, for some reason. Perhaps because Dragonforged are nice in some CO exercises.
EDIT: Up to 184 Strength and 75 billion d6 damage.
EDIT 2: I realized we forgot to account for Colossal size...
1,202,590,842,880d6
A friend of mine have a similar idea using push/drag weight instead. We've pumped Strength up to 165. So if you can get it even higher and you can get a fly spell, you could theoretically (in D&D physics), push the planet (into the sun possibly). The alternative is finding a flying basket (or other carrying device) that can hold you and the items you will be pushing and shove things off of the carrying device onto people below. Using that method, my friend and I are looking at ~5.5 billion d6 worth of damage so far (has yet to be truly buffed).
EDIT: Up to 184 Strength and 75 billion d6 damage.
EDIT 2: I realized we forgot to account for Colossal size...
1,202,590,842,880d6
Is it possible to get this guy to fly into outer space and grand slam our warforged into target X?
Is it possible to get this guy to fly into outer space and grand slam our warforged into target X?
The opposite is true at least. It's possible to fly around the world and grand slam target X into outer space.
The opposite is true at least. It's possible to fly around the world and grand slam target X into outer space.
Chuck FTW!
I find this entire thing rather hilarious. It isn't the Jumplomancer, it's no Trouser Dwarf, and I know this doesn't even touch the Lord of the Dance or Commoner Fried Chicken Bombs.
But the very thought that we are optimizing morbid obesity just tickles me senseless!
I mean seriously, how the hell is a bit of fluffy detail turning into a lethal weapon?! And how many people who play DnD take your character's weight seriously until the time comes for them to lug your corpse to town the hard way for some inane reason?
WELCOME TO CO, WHERE WE TURN STUPID IDEAS INTO LIVING WEAPONS.
Were this in TO, I would have said "We turn stupid ideas into planet-destroying WMDs".
You know, I bet this is how campaigns start. Some BBEG gets possessed by an optimizer's idea, and decides to blow up a planet or conquer the multiverse with it. Then you have to get an adventuring party together who have to do this massive quest to get a totally unrelated item to smite his ass with.
When you think about it, and look at what threads like this produce, it seems to be a logical conclusion.
WELCOME TO CO, WHERE WE TURN STUPID IDEAS INTO LIVING WEAPONS.
Were this in TO, I would have said "We turn stupid ideas into planet-destroying WMDs".
I hope you don't mind but I am going to put this in for the CO Board's Motto thread.
Also, shouldn't the title be "12,390lbs of Stupid" since we're already past 4500? :P
It's over 9000(lbs of stupid)!
It doesn't have to be Tubbimura. Just Jack's Jackbot disguised as Tubbimura.:P
It's over 9000(lbs of stupid)!
"Vegeta, what does the scale say beneath Tubbimura?"
:headexplo "It's over 9000!":OMG! "What!? 9000?"
Omen of Peace could you provide a quote where they have to be humanoids to become dragonborn? Not that I doubt you I just can't find it and it's good to be able to show people that sort of thing.
There isn't a quote. But using logic the only conclusion is that is has to be that way. I can go TG-style and formalize it if needed. ;)
Using D&D math for non real numbers that puts you up to x13 the 405 Lbs, which clears the 4000 by 1200 Lbs.
Perhaps I'm wierd, but weight seems like a real number to me.
Thus, the flaw and deformity would multiply your weight by 4.
Please stop using the non-real numbers multiplication when you should be using straight. It irks me on distance builds as well.
Perhaps I'm wierd, but weight seems like a real number to me.
Thus, the flaw and deformity would multiply your weight by 4.
Please stop using the non-real numbers multiplication when you should be using straight. It irks me on distance builds as well.
So I'm confused. A real number is +100%*(x+y-1)? A non real number is +100%*(x+y-1)? Which one uses the strange multiplication?
Because I thought that real numbers would be multiplied properly, making it x6. Confused?
So I'm confused. A real number is +100%*(x+y-1)? A non real number is +100%*(x+y-1)? Which one uses the strange multiplication?
Because I thought that real numbers would be multiplied properly, making it x6. Confused?
If it's a quantity that could be measured IRL (like distance or weight), it's a "real" number and follows real world multiplication (number x2 x2 = number x4).
If it's an abstraction that could not be measured IRL (like HP), it's an abstract number and follows D&D multiplication (number x2 x2 = number x3).
Is it possible to get this guy to fly into outer space and grand slam our warforged into target X?
It would be, but it would be a waste of the pusher's talents. My friend and I have jacked up his carrying capacity WAY above what it used to be. Your warforged is EASILY considered a light load (and thus not optimal damage for falling object damage). I'm not trying to be rude about your build, of course (I think it's hilarious), but my friend and I will be unveiling something in the next few days that puts 99% of all damage builds (damn you theoretical optimization and infinite damage tricks!) to shame. It uses the rebuilding trick I exploited for the Ruby Knight Vindicator and uses some other cheap stuff (and as such I do not advise people ever use it in actual games). In short, it will be nothing less than completely disgusting.
A light load is anything "1.6078713400874568 x 10^26" and lighter if I round his strength down currently...
It would be, but it would be a waste of the pusher's talents. My friend and I have jacked up his carrying capacity WAY above what it used to be. Your warforged is EASILY considered a light load (and thus not optimal damage for falling object damage). I'm not trying to be rude about your build, of course (I think it's hilarious), but my friend and I will be unveiling something in the next few days that puts 99% of all damage builds (damn you theoretical optimization and infinite damage tricks!) to shame. It uses the rebuilding trick I exploited for the Ruby Knight Vindicator and uses some other cheap stuff (and as such I do not advise people ever use it in actual games). In short, it will be nothing less than completely disgusting.
A light load is anything "1.6078713400874568 x 10^26" and lighter if I round his strength down currently...
Sounds like a real charmer, alright. I want to take a look at this.
As is it's still utterly stupid and the character would look ridiculous. We'll have it up soon though.
And yes, I am admitting that the Cancer Mage can do what our build can do better than our build given enough time to increase its strength.
Push/Drag Currently: "1.36112947
It would be more if we used the Monk+Cancer Mage trick, but that assumes you no one tries to stop you while you sit around gaining strength all the time.
As is it's still utterly stupid and the character would look ridiculous. We'll have it up soon though.
And yes, I am admitting that the Cancer Mage can do what our build can do better than our build given enough time to increase its strength.
Push/Drag Currently: "1.36112947
It currently deals (6.12998216
And I have to say, it sounds evil. About how long in-game does your build take to reach this pinnacle?
Edit: It does say your equipment gets larger, so at least you could get some added weight from that even if for some strange reason your weight doesn't increase.
Exactly how much is this "little bit" that you think acquiring the spell might drop your STR?
And I have to say, it sounds evil. About how long in-game does your build take to reach this pinnacle?
Well, it depends on how you want to use the spell. If you only want a single use, it loses 4 strength (a decrease, but a rather negligible one with how much strength it has).
50 Charges would drop the strength a lot more but at this ridiculous height I'm not sure it matters. It drops your strength either 12 or 20 (cost-reducing stuff muddles things). It's still an absurd strength score though.
Use-Activated or Continuous would drop you a considerable amount (~36 or ~60). You would remain well beyond the Hulking Hurler's septillions no matter what though.
Now, the build does admittedly only reach this level of insanity at level 20. It does, however, gain its benefits at a scaling rate with wealth (and thus gets the ability to push massive amounts of weight much earlier - just less massive than the amounts I'm detailing here).
EDIT: A minor oversight on my part led to a 4-point decrease in strength.
The new figure is (3.52473974
Shouldn't attacking with your body be considered an unarmed attack, thus being subjected to an attack roll? I know that you are just letting yourself fall, but actually it is an attack.
k.
No more so then wondering if tripping on your shoelace lets the ground attempt to punch you in the face. It's not attacking, it is not flying. It is falling...with style.
Additionally, you use the Objects table to determine Fall damage, but you're not an object AFAICT, you're a creature. So that's a no go.
This is fun and all, but how do you get around the fact that you cannot occupy the same square as an enemy RAW?
Additionally, you use the Objects table to determine Fall damage, but you're not an object AFAICT, you're a creature. So that's a no go.
Easy, you teleport onto them, then 5' step into the closest empty space (that, or you roll onto that space at the end of your fall, depending on the DM).
As for the object part, that is what the Heavy Steel Shield is for. You put that between you and your target as you fall, and technically the shield is what hits them, not you. You just add to the weight.
You could probably make a case for making a roll similar to the CRUSH attack of a Dragon(but that's rather crap due to the whole size difference limitations. I say anyone who can fit underneath should take Crush damage). There's also that Area Attack Feat from Savage Species, which in this case, involves swinging yourself.:P
I wonder if we can find some obscure rule about your weight applying a penalty to Jump checks? If so, we can try the old "Throw yourself at the ground and miss" trick for even more shenanigans.
Oh god! I just had a picture of a deformed, obscenely obese Warforged Ninja flying through the air, then teleporting and dropping on someone!
Player 2 "Um... so what are you doing with that rifle?"
Player 1 "I'm killing the fly on the front of their shirt that's over their heart!"
Player 2"oh well if you are just shooing a fly for them that's actually rather nice of you."
only with a heavy still shield.
Player 1 "Of course I'm Lawful Good I would NEVER attack a person with a .50 caliber rifle that they don't see and can't defend themselves from!"
Player 2 "Um... so what are you doing with that rifle?"
Player 1 "I'm killing the fly on the front of their shirt that's over their heart!"
Player 2"oh well if you are just shooing a fly for them that's actually rather nice of you."
only with a heavy still shield.
Exactly! Welcome to CO. We don't break rules here. We just twist the words around a little.
Easy, you teleport onto them, then 5' step into the closest empty space (that, or you roll onto that space at the end of your fall, depending on the DM).
As for the object part, that is what the Heavy Steel Shield is for. You put that between you and your target as you fall, and technically the shield is what hits them, not you. You just add to the weight.
I see no text in teleport that lets you break the not occupying the same square as an enemy rule. No dice.
The heavy steel shield is therefore the object. Yes, technically the shield is what hits them not you. So you use the shield's weight, not your's, and not the shield+your's. There are no such rules for adding the weight of creatures to the weight of objects to determine the fall damage of objects.
I see no text in teleport that lets you break the not occupying the same square as an enemy rule. No dice.
The heavy steel shield is therefore the object. Yes, technically the shield is what hits them not you. So you use the shield's weight, not your's, and not the shield+your's. There are no such rules for adding the weight of creatures to the weight of objects to determine the fall damage of objects.
...Who said you are occupying the same square you teleport into when the round ends?
I really dislike how you are trying to shoot this idea down. Technically, they are two separate objects. When the rules don't say anything about it, you use logic. The idea is a logical one. You are being highly illogical.
...Who said you are occupying the same square you teleport into when the round ends?
I really dislike how you are trying to shoot this idea down. Technically, they are two separate objects. When the rules don't say anything about it, you use logic. The idea is a logical one. You are being highly illogical.
What's more illogical than calling your character an object?
Your character is not an object. Your character is a "Creature". There are dozens of examples of where certain things apply to "Creature" or "Object" but not to both. The falling damage done by objects is one of them. Notice how in the DMG pg. 303 there's a listing for "Falling" that covers characters, and then there's a totally different section for "Falling Objects".
I'm not being illogical at all. I'm just asking to see the rules behind your character.
Show me the rules for how much damage your character deals when they fall on someone else.
As to your first question, you said you would teleport 20ft. above your target and then fall into them. Well, if you are planning on "hitting" them with your fall, you will have to move into their square, otherwise what are you doing; hovering 5' above them?
What's more illogical than calling your character an object?
Your character is not an object. Your character is a "Creature". There are dozens of examples of where certain things apply to "Creature" or "Object" but not to both. The falling damage done by objects is one of them. Notice how in the DMG pg. 303 there's a listing for "Falling" that covers characters, and then there's a totally different section for "Falling Objects".
I'm not being illogical at all. I'm just asking to see the rules behind your character.
Show me the rules for how much damage your character deals when they fall on someone else.
As to your first question, you said you would teleport 20ft. above your target and then fall into them. Well, if you are planning on "hitting" them with your fall, you will have to move into their square, otherwise what are you doing; hovering 5' above them?
Which is why I said you needed the temporary HP to offset the damage you would take too. And technically, even creatures are objects. They are just living Objects.
Which is why I said you needed the temporary HP to offset the damage you would take too. And technically, even creatures are objects. They are just living Objects.
Ahahahahahahahaha! Creatures are objects too! Not in D&D. That's like saying wizards are fighters, they're just magic fighters! Ahahahaha!
No. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. So incredibly WRONG.
PHB pg 165-167
CO is about optimizing within the confines of the rules. You're blatantly making things up now, sorry.
Find some rules that allow you to do this (and I'm sure they can be found!) and the build will work fine. But as is, you're either using house-rules or just ignoring the RAW.
Ahahahahahahahaha! Creatures are objects too! Not in D&D. That's like saying wizards are fighters, they're just magic fighters! Ahahahaha!
No. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. So incredibly WRONG.
PHB pg 165-167
CO is about optimizing within the confines of the rules. You're blatantly making things up now, sorry.
Find some rules that allow you to do this (and I'm sure they can be found!) and the build will work fine. But as is, you're either using house-rules or just ignoring the RAW.
Quit Flaming or leave our boards. Reread the Code of Conduct that you agreed to adhere to when you made an account at Wizards.
Ahahahahahahahaha! Creatures are objects too! Not in D&D. That's like saying wizards are fighters, they're just magic fighters! Ahahahaha!
No. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. So incredibly WRONG.
PHB pg 165-167
CO is about optimizing within the confines of the rules. You're blatantly making things up now, sorry.
Find some rules that allow you to do this (and I'm sure they can be found!) and the build will work fine. But as is, you're either using house-rules or just ignoring the RAW.
By RAW, anything could be considered a falling object, if it fulfills the weight and distance requirements it will do damage to something beneath it. By logic, a person or creature is indeed an object that can fulfill those requirements, as it is tangible, has weight, and can fall quickly. It never says that it has to be an inanimate object in order to be considered a falling object.
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.
Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen.
For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).
Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.
For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.
Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.
Note that the Sundering rules make a specific distinction between object and creature, but that those very same rules can be used against creatures (Hydras, for example).
Besides, have you ever had a 21,384lbs. person made of metal drop on you? Because I doubt we would be having this conversation if we had.
If need be, I will just have the Hulking Hurler use this character as ammunition. It is easy to see something that heavy being used as an improvised weapon by someone with a high-enough Str score.
And you are indeed being illogical. Someone landing on you does indeed hurt both of you. This is simple fact. This is also something the rules never anticipated, as the designers never had the insight to make a ruling for this.
And you are indeed being illogical. Someone landing on you does indeed hurt both of you. This is simple fact.
Oh really. In that case, you're ignoring Newton's Third Law of motion. All that force you're putting into someone else is simultaneously being put right back into you, you'd take the same damage.
But as you can see, you're using two different rulings to try and work out your "falling magic". Falling as an object for damage done, and falling as a character for damage received, that is not the RAW.
Quit Flaming or leave our boards. Reread the Code of Conduct that you agreed to adhere to when you made an account at Wizards.
I don't see how it's flaming or against the Code of Conduct to:
1) Call someone's thoughts on rules wrong.
2) Point out the text that supports my position multiple times.
3) Think it's funny that someone is mistaking the very specific D&D terms "Object" and "Creature".
I in no way insulted anyone. Read everything I've written, there is not a single piece of text that personally insults anyone.
Quit overreacting. In fact, I think you need to read the Code of Conduct because you posted here OFF TOPIC solely to harass, bully and threaten me with the "CoC" when it does not apply to anything I've said at all.
Oh really. In that case, you're ignoring Newton's Third Law of motion. All that force you're putting into someone else is simultaneously being put right back into you, you'd take the same damage.
But as you can see, you're using two different rulings to try and work out your "falling magic". Falling as an object for damage done, and falling as a character for damage received, that is not the RAW.
Because the Falling Damage rules and the Falling Object rules are in fact separate rules. I'll even quote them for you:
Falling Damage
The basic rule is simple: 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6.
If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumped, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Jump or Tumble check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.
Falls onto yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud) also convert the first 1d6 of damage to nonlethal damage. This reduction is cumulative with reduced damage due to deliberate jumps and the Jump skill.
Falling Objects
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.
Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their weight and the distance they have fallen.
For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage).
Objects smaller than 200 pounds also deal damage when dropped, but they must fall farther to deal the same damage. Use Table: Damage from Falling Objects to see how far an object of a given weight must drop to deal 1d6 points of damage.
For each additional increment an object falls, it deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.
Objects weighing less than 1 pound do not deal damage to those they land upon, no matter how far they have fallen.
You see? I am using two separate rules to avoid the damage. This is what an exploitation of the system is. This is something TO (and, to a lesser extent that this idea fulfills, CO) do for the kicks and giggles of it.
This thread was meant to be an example of how the Warlock class actually bites big wind (and even when optimized can be outdone) and as a joke. You are taking things way to seriously, and are ruining the entire joke.
I'm not sure what the current build is, but the Obese flaw can only be taken by Small characters.
Dammit! Warforged Scout then. Well, that did just cut the idea in two there didn't it? That's what I get for not having the right books though.
Oh really. In that case, you're ignoring Newton's Third Law of motion. All that force you're putting into someone else is simultaneously being put right back into you, you'd take the same damage.
Ring of Feather Fall. You still deal 40d6 damage (92.7d6 / 2 if we're using 405x2x3x8lbs) based on weight landing on a character.
I'm not sure what the current build is, but the Obese flaw can only be taken by Small characters.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Obese_%28DnD_Flaw%29
Prereq is Dex 14 or less. Where does it say otherwise? And why are only small characters allowed to be Obese? :P
I in no way insulted anyone. Read everything I've written, there is not a single piece of text that personally insults anyone.
The laughter and smarmy sarcastic comments were insulting.
Interestingly, the "always wearing heavy armour" part only applies to movement and fatigue, so no loss of Wis to AC there.
Engaging common sense...now.
Common sense tells me that if a 6 ton anything *including person* falls on someone else that someone else is going to hurt...alot.
Besides are you going to tell me having a 6 ton person fall on someone shouldn't hurt them becuase "the 6 ton person isn't an object"?
Engaging common sense...now.
Common sense tells me that if a 6 ton anything *including person* falls on someone else that someone else is going to hurt...alot.
And that's the idea!
Seriously though, I never mean for people to play this build unless it is a joke campaign or they need to prove a point to someone else. Because this is a ridiculous idea spawned from insanity. Funny as hell though.
And that's the idea!
Seriously though, I never mean for people to play this build unless it is a joke campaign or they need to prove a point to someone else. Because this is a ridiculous idea spawned from insanity. Funny as hell though.
Dude. I've killed an Epic Caster with Falling Damage.
Step 1: 6,000 lb WereRhino.
Step 2: Add Righteous Might. 192,000 lb WereRhino.
Step 3: Splat
And this was before I discovered the light of Optimization. We can do sooo much better than that.
Dude. I've killed an Epic Caster with Falling Damage.
Step 1: 6,000 lb WereRhino.
Step 2: Add Righteous Might. 192,000 lb WereRhino.
Step 3: Splat
And this was before I discovered the light of Optimization. We can do sooo much better than that.
If only the damage were based on actual weight instead of dice...
Besides are you going to tell me having a 6 ton person fall on someone shouldn't hurt them becuase "the 6 ton person isn't an object"?
Engaging common sense...now.
Common sense tells me that if a 6 ton anything *including person* falls on someone else that someone else is going to hurt...alot.
Ok. Listen here. Common sense dictates that Newton's Third Law is still in effect, and that all the force this 6 ton person would generate would hit him for just as much as the person/thing they land on.
Action=reaction. Equal and opposite. What goes into them, also goes into you.
So all this damage would smash them right back, by common sense. Yes it makes sense that when they hit the person they land on for a ton of damage, they in fact take this damage back due to Newton's Third Law. That DOES make sense. What the OP is saying does NOT make sense. He is trying to deal far greater than billions of damage and only take, what, 3d6 damage in return? That makes no sense.
Once again, people/creatures are NOT objects. I can't sunder his character. I can't cast shatter on his character. I can't cast polymorph any object on his character. There are 1,001 things I cannot do to his character because he is NOT an object. Warforged are not objects. So why insist on using the Falling Objects rules instead of the other rules that apply to characters?
The main reason is because they are trying to use BOTH the character falling rules for damage taken from their fall, but then using the falling objects rule for damage done.
#1 That's not RAW. How can you apply 2 sets of rules that are mutually exclusive to the SAME situation? (i.e. Apply falling as a character AND falling as an Object to the same character[who is not an Object in the first place])
#2 That makes no "common sense" according to physics. Mind you, I'm NOT the one that brought "common sense" into Dungeons and Dragons. Magic? Dragons? Common sense?
#2a. See Newton's Third Law
The laughter and smarmy sarcastic comments were insulting.
I was laughing at something that was funny, that's not a CoC crime. Creatures are not Objects. D&D has very specific rules for these. All Objects have *hardness* for example. It's a rule. Check the pages I cited. His character (which is a creature) lacks one of the things all objects have, for example, continuing to further invalidate his claims RAW.
There is no TONE on the Internet, so how "smarmy/sarcastic" my comments *sound* varies by those who read them. That being said there is still nothing that breaks the CoC. Yet you're the second person to post OFF TOPIC just to harass me.
And for the record, let me just point out that I've used this idea several times in play to use *Objects* like anvils or cannonballs or stones etc. drop onto the heads of enemies/PC's because RAW allow you to use these kinds of tactics.
What I've asked twice in this thread and now three times is "show me the rules" that lets you pull *this* off. Another way of saying that is "Great idea, I really like it, but can you show me why it works according to the rules?"
But in the end our Dragonforged has (if we keep the weight from DO.):
Base weight 405lbs (Adamantine Body).
x2 (Flaw: Obese) (810lbs)
x3 (Deformity (Obese)) (2430)
+10% Dragonborn (2690lbs)
x8 Enlarge Person (Dragonforged would be Humanoid (Living Construct, Dragonblood))
21,384lbs. I got the math terribly wrong here! I'm sure of it! I never did get D&D maths. The unbuffed weight doesn't seem physically possible, either. Would make an incredibly effective falling object, though.
According to the link, the Flaw only doubles the rolled weight. On the other hand, Deformity: Obese states "now at least triple the normal weight".
So let's see.
Race Base: 270
Maximum Height Rolled: 12(2d6)
Weight Modifier: *4(doubled by Flaw), 12*8=96
Maximum Weight: 270+96=366 lb.
Deformity Obese: 366*3=1098 lb.
What % does converting to Adamantine increase the weight(pre-D:Obese) by? Eg, if the average 'Forged is 300 and Adamantine Bodied ones go to 400, we know that Adamantine increases it by 33%(1/3), so it's 366+122=488, tripled to 1464 lb.
I can't cast polymorph any object on his character.
Yes you can.
Yes, the force is also pushed back into the falling object. However, the falling object's acceleration is significantly smaller due to its enormous mass. The shield means that the force is spread evenly on the falling object, and so there is no uneven pressure to create a puncture wound. What all this means is that the falling object suffers a much smaller change in its momentum than does the object fallen upon. Thus, the shock from the impact will be less, and since it is presumably this that causes falling damage, it's reasonable that less damage be dealt to the falling object than the crushed one. Obviously, damage can't be based on the force an object is on the receiving end of, because we'd die by standing (the force of gravity is constant whether we're falling or standing). Therefore, it must be the inertia change that deals falling damage.
And I offer my sincerest condolences to the families of all those catgirls.
Ok. Listen here. Common sense dictates that Newton's Third Law is still in effect, and that all the force this 6 ton person would generate would hit him for just as much as the person/thing they land on.
Action=reaction. Equal and opposite. What goes into them, also goes into you.
So all this damage would smash them right back, by common sense. Yes it makes sense that when they hit the person they land on for a ton of damage, they in fact take this damage back due to Newton's Third Law. That DOES make sense. What the OP is saying does NOT make sense. He is trying to deal far greater than billions of damage and only take, what, 3d6 damage in return? That makes no sense.
Then, by your logic, each time I punch someone I should also take the damage that I dealt? I mean, it's the force I'm applying, so it should also be generated back at me, right?
Base: 320
Height multiplier: 12
Weight multipler: 12(6*2)
Total Weight: 144+320=464
D: Obese: 464*3=1392 lb
Still far short of even a ton(barely breaks half).
Edit: So with Iron Construct Infusion:
1392*6("increases by a factor of 5")=8352 lb
Multiply by 8 for Righteous Might=66816 lb
NOW we're cooking. :D
Ok, so this says 320, *6.
Base: 320
Height multiplier: 12
Weight multipler: 12(6*2)
Total Weight: 144+320=464
D: Obese: 464*3=1392 lb
Still far short of even a ton(barely breaks half).
Average Adamantine Bodied Warforged Weight is 352lbs.
Obese (Flaw) doubles this.
Second Flaw, doubles the new number (due to the fact that you don't use the same multiplication rules that DnD uses due to weight being an actual number)
WD: Obese triples the new number.
End result: 4224lbs of weight. The perfect number.
stuff
First off, real world physics and D&D physics are two separate entities. There have been many threads about that.
Second, there's a difference between saying haha or lol, and laughing like you did in the post. You took it to an extreme that I, and others obviously, saw as insulting.
I'm thinking some kind of adamantine sofa is required...
I know we don't normally do 3rd Party, but in this case, the Bloated One Prestige Class really stands out(replace the silly "Toughness" pre-req with Willing Deformity: Obese Feat or the Obese Flaw).:D
Where is this prestige class from? ;)
Also, I want to note that though Warforged is the optimal choice for this, other races can also join the fun, so long as they have an entry for weight :P. Though it would be harder to explain, as they don't have the advantage of not actually being living creatures.
Ogres, with LA Buyoff would be four levels behind the Warforged, but offer:
Higher base weight (650x2x3 is 3900lbs, which means 19d6 in an AMF, thankyou extraordinary teleportation) and Righteous Mighting up to Huge size, which is more than the Warforged can do early on.
Ogre 4/Swordsage 3/Crusader 1/Ur Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 is still a fair build (+17 BAB, huge strength, 9th level spells etc. Shame about your -4 Dex, though :\) Dunno if it's legal, so it may need tweaking.
Making a Good build (that is, avoiding the Deformity feats and Ur-Priest) is a little more difficult. I think a human Werebear would be awesome for this, since in their hybrid form you'd be Large and 1800lbs(!) as a base weight. AND humanoid type! Enlarge Person here we come.
1800x2 (Obese flaw) would be 3600lbs.
Afflicted Werebear Human 6/ Swordsage 3/Divine Crusader (Strength/War) 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Adapted Knight Vindicator 9, maybe? I dunno, it seems rather complicated to me. But 3600lbs x 8 does sound interesting. Divine Power could patch up the BAB, your Con could make up for the d8s... Hmm.
Any more suggestions for adaptations of this tactic?
That being said, Half-Ogres are probably the biggest race with a listed height/weight table.
Please stop doubling the base weight for the flaw. The link posted already notes that it only applies to the weight modified by the rolled portion of height.
That being said, Half-Ogres are probably the biggest race with a listed height/weight table.
Ah. So it doesn't help as much, but it does help some.
Next question: how is our poor warforged going to to sit down, since he probably crushes any chair he tries to sit in?
I'm thinking some kind of adamantine sofa is required...
That's what Immovable Rods were invented for.
Ah. So it doesn't help as much, but it does help some.
That's why I've been posting recalculated masses for the last page or so.;)
There has got to be some other ways to optimise this(excluding Bloated).
That's why I've been posting recalculated masses for the last page or so.;)
There has got to be some other ways to optimise this(excluding Bloated).
Super-Size Me, Wu Jen?
Please stop doubling the base weight for the flaw. The link posted already notes that it only applies to the weight modified by the rolled portion of height.
That being said, Half-Ogres are probably the biggest race with a listed height/weight table.
So the flaw doesn't actually change the weight of any race which DOESN'T randomly roll their height and weight? o_O That's odd. Real odd. I always thought that flaw just *2 your weight listed. :P Sorry.
Super-Size Me, Wu Jen?
Oddly, Giant Size doesn't say it changes your weight. If it did, you'd go (from Medium to Collossal) x32 weight, I think. But that depends if it does or not.
So here is the sequence of events this manuever entails:
0. Get very heavy. At least 4,000 Lbs heavy. Heavier is good for dramatic effect. *added becuase it needs to be*
1. We teleport into a square 10~20 above the foe, we are clear for the teleport becuase no one is in the square 3 squares above our foe.
2. We then fall taking 1d6 damage per 10 ft fallen as per page 303 of the DMG.
3. As the heavy thing we are, we fall on the foe who takes 1d6 per 200 Lbs we weight + 1d6 per 10 ft OVER 20 ft we fall.
4. After falling we are illegally positioned in another character's square so we are knocked prone and placed in the last legal square we occupied, or the closest legal square available, in this case any adjacent square to the one we illegally occupy.
Now ways to increase weight include:
Enlarge Person Spell (won't work for warforged)
Iron Body
Willingly Deformity (obese)
Flaw (obese) *regardless of amount it adds some weight all we need*
Dragonborn
Giant Size *?*
Adding lots of equipment weight
Question:
If I enlarge my heavy character does his equipment get heavier too?
Ironically, the Hulking Hurler-ism might do more damage with the amount of weight you carry than the tub-o-lard cyborg, but I'm too lazy/tired to calculate for sure.
The Flaw works for any race where the extra weight is factored by height(eg, Warforged don't roll for weight, but they roll for height, so just double the *4 or *6).
Ironically, the Hulking Hurler-ism might do more damage with the amount of weight you carry than the tub-o-lard cyborg, but I'm too lazy/tired to calculate for sure.
Well, according to the ECS, Warforged can indeed roll for height, but not weight. I find this strange, as it says 270x4 in the ECS. The article says 320x6 instead if made of Adamantine.
That alone is almost one ton. It comes out to 9d6 damage, base. If we then add in the WD:Obese to triple that weight, it comes out to 5760, well over 2 tons. This nets us it without the need for Flaws (just by using Elder Evils we can achieve this massive weight).
If the flaw instead double the end weight rather than double the random weight factor, then we would have a 23040lbs Warforged ATAT walking around teleporting onto people. But it doesn't, so we just end up with a fat cow's mother and a half.
Which means this build is viable by 5th level with Swordsage only, as a Standard action every other round (without Adaptive Style too). Then you add in the weight increases from Expansion and Righteous Might, and we are talking heavy!
"No Not FLUFFY!"
The Prime Suspect
If there are free feats open for this build I would like to suggest the roof jumper feat tree to add more damage to the build.
The Prime Suspect
We now have a fat robotic ninja that likes to jump off of buildings.
Suicidal Roboninja of Death!
Is there a way to get an item that lets you use an infusion, similar to how one might get an item letting you use a spell?
Not that I'm aware.
Any chance of this ninja carrying heavy stones or something for extra weight? You know, when you grow, you'll carrying capacity will get higher too, so the damage will proportionally increase as well.
Maybe something along the lines of strapping KIA Warforged Scouts with the Adamantine Body and WD:Obese feats to his limbs via Sovereign Glue (or an upgraded version of the stuff)?
Before the encounter, attach those baskets to you somehow, maybe you have some hooks in your body to hang them to. When the encounter starts, draw huge amounts of adamantine or some other very substance to those baskets as a free action. Repeat as long you can keep standing. After this, teleport on your victim.
Now all we need is the cannon to shoot this guy out of, and I can call the character complete.
How about using the vacuum cannon idea? You just need a tube, two teleportation circles and a vacuum for that. This character would take damage in the order of thousands of billions though. Indomitability for the win, perhaps?
How about using the vacuum cannon idea? You just need a tube, two teleportation circles and a vacuum for that. This character would take damage in the order of thousands of billions though. Indomitability for the win, perhaps?
Well, the good news about a Warforged character is that as long as the body is in one piece, he can just be hit with a Repair Damage spell to bring him back to consciousness. And IIRC, Negative HP stops at -10 (or lower with certain features) so no matter how much damage he takes, a simple Repair Minor Damage gets him up and running again.
the cannon to shoot this guy out of
Some really big ring gates maybe...?
paraphrase: "that doesn't work--he's not an object, not to mention he would asplode himself upon impact."
I have to agree with everyone else here: debating this is going to require the application of logic.
why the presence of both a falling creature and a falling object table makes no difference
Creatures and objects are different groups in D&D, yes. I give you that. You can't shatter a dwarf (unless you have a few feats/spells from "Frostburn," but I digress).
There are two different tables for a reason. Typically, when worried about the damage one takes from something falling on his/her head, it's because the character set off a rockfall trap or the like.
Typically, when worried about the damage something takes from falling, it's because the "something" in question has organs it would like to stay inside upon impact.
However, it requires the total suspension of logic to believe that creatures--for no apparent reason--veer five feet to the left or right during a fall just because there's no table for the damage the poor sucker underneath him would take.
When something heavy lands on someone, the guy on the bottom will feel it, regardless of whether it is a ton of bricks or a ton of Warforged.
You don't just say "Nope, doesn't count, not an object." You use logic to deduce the best way to determine damage. And that way is clearly the table that tells you exactly how much something falling on you hurts.
There are two different tables for a reason. Typically, when worried about the damage one takes from something falling on his/her head, it's because the character set off a rockfall trap or the like.
Typically, when worried about the damage something takes from falling, it's because the "something" in question has organs it would like to stay inside upon impact.
However, it requires the total suspension of logic to believe that creatures--for no apparent reason--veer five feet to the left or right during a fall just because there's no table for the damage the poor sucker underneath him would take.
When something heavy lands on someone, the guy on the bottom will feel it, regardless of whether it is a ton of bricks or a ton of Warforged.
You don't just say "Nope, doesn't count, not an object." You use logic to deduce the best way to determine damage. And that way is clearly the table that tells you exactly how much something falling on you hurts.
This is what clears up some of the physics too. The guy on bottom isn't taking all that damage from speed of impact, and the like, he's taking it from the fact his body isn't designed to support several (or more) tons of weight. The fall itself probably only did the first d6 (same as our fall guy) it's all that weight that's doing the real hurting. Now our fall guy doesn't take the weight damage because his body is (ideally and in D&D it's what we assume) designed to handle its own weight.
Seriously. A very scary Kirby. It'd be funnier if you weren't a construct to start. Wear some spiked armor for another 1d6!
So, in essence, you're practically Kirby.
Seriously. A very scary Kirby. It'd be funnier if you weren't a construct to start. Wear some spiked armor for another 1d6!
See the difference is being an Warforged allows you to Grow the Spikey Shoulder Pads of Doom instead of just putting them on every morning.
Well, according to the ECS, Warforged can indeed roll for height, but not weight. I find this strange, as it says 270x4 in the ECS. The article says 320x6 instead if made of Adamantine.
That alone is almost one ton. It comes out to 9d6 damage, base. If we then add in the WD:Obese to triple that weight, it comes out to 5760, well over 2 tons. This nets us it without the need for Flaws (just by using Elder Evils we can achieve this massive weight).
Forgive me if I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I am completely confused about how you got to 5760 lbs. Could you summarize the current build/math?
I did find another way to double a creature's weight for only 1000 GP:
Pure Element (Earth), Planar Handbook p. 77. Doubles weight, -2 penalty to Balance, Climb, Jump, Ride, Swim, and Tumble checks. DR 1/adamantine, too. Effect lasts for 10 minutes.
Forgive me if I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I am completely confused about how you got to 5760 lbs. Could you summarize the current build/math?
I did find another way to double a creature's weight for only 1000 GP:
Pure Element (Earth), Planar Handbook p. 77. Doubles weight, -2 penalty to Balance, Climb, Jump, Ride, Swim, and Tumble checks. DR 1/adamantine, too. Effect lasts for 10 minutes.
320x6=1920
Obese triples it at the level you gain the feat. That's 5670.
And using that little alchemical gem you just found, that's <9000. We've offically made a character that weighs more than Goku's PL when he fought Vegita and Napa.
Why do I feel really lame for doing this?
320x6=1920
Obese triples it at the level you gain the feat. That's 5670.
No, the x6 multiplier is what you multiply your extra height roll by (2d6). So the maximum weight is 320 + (12 x 6) = 392.
The Obese flaw doubles the x6 multiplier to x12, so 320 + 144 = 464 lbs.
Willing Deformity triples this amount. 464 x 3 = 1392.
Pure Element (Earth) gets us to 2784 lbs, but we're still short about 1300 lbs without resorting to size-changing effects.
Enlarge Person won't work on a Warforged, but one level of Psychic Warrior or I think the Hidden Talent feat (XPH p. 67) gives us Expansion for x8. This can get you well above 4000 lbs even without the flaw or Willing Deformity.
Looks like the quickest you can pull this trick off is a Warforged Swordsage 3 with Hidden Talent. All three Shadow Jump maneuvers don't kick in until Swordsage 13, although you can cheat a bit with Bloodline levels and get all three by ECL 8 (PsyWar 1/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Barbarian 1/Bloodline 3/Swordsage 1). Along the way you might be able to pick up Practiced Manifester and Augment up to Huge Size, but I'm not sure if Bloodline levels count as hit dice... although even at 5 HD you can Midnight Augmentation the Expansion Augment (7 PP) down by 1 and then Overchannel up to 6 PP from there.
No, the x6 multiplier is what you multiply your extra height roll by (2d6). So the maximum weight is 320 + (12 x 6) = 392.
The Obese flaw doubles the x6 multiplier to x12, so 320 + 144 = 464 lbs.
Willing Deformity triples this amount. 464 x 3 = 1392.
Pure Element (Earth) gets us to 2784 lbs, but we're still short about 1300 lbs without resorting to size-changing effects.
Enlarge Person won't work on a Warforged, but one level of Psychic Warrior or I think the Hidden Talent feat (XPH p. 67) gives us Expansion for x8. This can get you well above 4000 lbs even without the flaw or Willing Deformity.
Looks like the quickest you can pull this trick off is a Warforged Swordsage 3 with Hidden Talent. All three Shadow Jump maneuvers don't kick in until Swordsage 13, although you can cheat a bit with Bloodline levels and get all three by ECL 8 (PsyWar 1/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Barbarian 1/Bloodline 3/Swordsage 1). Along the way you might be able to pick up Practiced Manifester and Augment up to Huge Size, but I'm not sure if Bloodline levels count as hit dice... although even at 5 HD you can Midnight Augmentation the Expansion Augment (7 PP) down by 1 and then Overchannel up to 6 PP from there.
You overlooked the portion of the Obese deformity where it says it triples your weight, not the multiplier. You also missed the part about DnD math being applied to numbers that don't exist yet (IE crit damage). In cases where actual pre-determined numbers are involved you use the normal form of multiplication.
We've done the math and the argument behind it all ready. Its a bit burried but it is there.
You overlooked the portion of the Obese deformity where it says it triples your weight, not the multiplier.
No, I got that... 464 x 3 really does = 1392.
We've done the math and the argument behind it all ready. Its a bit burried but it is there.
Ah, I see where I'm getting confused. The Obese flaw says "double the weight rolled". AtomicKitKat pointed out that this means you double the portion of the weight rolled (the 2d6 x 6) rather than the base weight. You even agreed with him at one point.
But now I think you're interpreting the flaw as doubling the sum of y = (320 + x). By rolled amount, you mean the entire amount (2y), not just the x portion. So the entire amount x2 on top of the x3 = x6.
Hmm. I'm not sure which interpretation would be correct. On one hand, the "rolled amount" would appear to refer to the 2d6 portion. Would that really be considered obese, though... hmm, for an average human male, (2d10 x 2d4) x 2, so adding 110 on top of 120 lbs, average obese human would be 230 lbs. According to a BMI calculator... Grade 1 Obesity. For a warforged, (2d6 x 6) x 2 = 84 lbs on average. Feels a little low to be considered a debilitating flaw. On the low end of the human chart, though, you could roll a 2 x 2 x 2 = 8 lbs, which wouldn't even be considered overweight.
On the other hand, doubling the entire amount would undeniably kick you up into obese range... but it feels a little too high. Average human with the obese flaw would be 350 lbs, considered Morbidly Obese. Even if you roll the lowest possible weight, doubling the entire amount (128 x 2 = 256) still puts you in the range of Morbidly Obese.
Hmm. Hard to tell what the intent was, but doubling just the rolled portion doesn't seem like enough weight. Given that Willing Deformity triples the entire weight, it may be reasonable to assume a flaw with a similar concept would double the entire amount rather than just a smaller portion.
No, I got that... 464 x 3 really does = 1392.
Ah, I see where I'm getting confused. The Obese flaw says "double the weight rolled". AtomicKitKat pointed out that this means you double the portion of the weight rolled (the 2d6 x 6) rather than the base weight. You even agreed with him at one point.
But now I think you're interpreting the flaw as doubling the sum of y = (320 + x). By rolled amount, you mean the entire amount (2y), not just the x portion. So the entire amount x2 on top of the x3 = x6.
Hmm. I'm not sure which interpretation would be correct. On one hand, the "rolled amount" would appear to refer to the 2d6 portion. Would that really be considered obese, though... hmm, for an average human male, (2d10 x 2d4) x 2, so adding 110 on top of 120 lbs, average obese human would be 230 lbs. According to a BMI calculator... Grade 1 Obesity. For a warforged, (2d6 x 6) x 2 = 84 lbs on average. Feels a little low to be considered a debilitating flaw. On the low end of the human chart, though, you could roll a 2 x 2 x 2 = 8 lbs, which wouldn't even be considered overweight.
On the other hand, doubling the entire amount would undeniably kick you up into obese range... but it feels a little too high. Average human with the obese flaw would be 350 lbs, considered Morbidly Obese. Even if you roll the lowest possible weight, doubling the entire amount (128 x 2 = 256) still puts you in the range of Morbidly Obese.
Hmm. Hard to tell what the intent was, but doubling just the rolled portion doesn't seem like enough weight. Given that Willing Deformity triples the entire weight, it may be reasonable to assume a flaw with a similar concept would double the entire amount rather than just a smaller portion.
That's because they hadn't made the Warforged when they made the flaw, so they never counted on it being used like this. Of course, like most of CO, they never expect how good something can be made when we get done with it.
If you can find a way to make a Floating Disc or Telekinetic Sphere to support your weight at the start, casting Stone/Iron Body will cause the disc/sphere(not sure on latter, but free action dismiss?) to collapse, dropping you on top of the target. Or just a move action to step off the disc.
People don't expect you to teleport on top of them. Its funnier this way.
Really, if we want to remove the damage cap and do something really stupid with this, there is a flaw that doubles your weight IIRC. Take that, grab one of your feats. Then devote yourself to an Elder Evil for Willing Deformity (Obese), and pick up Hidden Talent (Expansion) and call it an afterlife.
Obviously, this is against the normal, everyday Warlock you see in games that don't involve optimization. Against the Glaivelock, this is pitiful. But 20d6, no save, no SR, no attack rolls is pretty damn twisted, especially when it is able to do everything the standard Optimized Duskblade is capable of (at least past level 6). Glaivelock takes 1 Con, needs 3+ attacks, a level dip into a class that only one race has as Favored, and a few SR checks 60% of the time just to work.
Acme just likes falling on people's heads.
Where do you get a list of flaws from? Where do you find Hidden Talent (Expansion) (IDK what it does)?
Now ways to increase weight include:
Enlarge Person Spell (won't work for warforged)
Iron Body
Willingly Deformity (obese)
Flaw (obese) *regardless of amount it adds some weight all we need*
Dragonborn
Giant Size *?*
Adding lots of equipment weight
What is "Dragonborn" and where do I find it? Also, are we sure warforged can become obese?
What is "Pure Element (Earth)"?
Where do you get a list of flaws from? Where do you find Hidden Talent (Expansion) (IDK what it does)?
Hidden Talent is from the Mind's Eye:
Hidden Talent
Your psionic talent is strong enough to manifest a single power.
Level: 1st
Replaces: Wild Talent class ability
Benefit: You gain the Hidden Talent feat instead of the Wild Talent feat at 1st level (see Expanded Psionic Handbook, page 67). You gain 2 psionic power points, can now learn any psionic feat for which you meet the prerequisites, can expend your psionic focus, and can gain a single 1st-level power from any list.
Special: Normally the Hidden Talent feat can be taken only once at 1st level, but a soulknife with this class ability can take this feat multiple times, each time gaining an additional 2 psionic power points and another 1st-level power.
The most common powers chosen with this class ability are force screen and inertial armor since they fit the theme of a soulknife, but many choose other powers.
The standard flaws can be found in the SRD.I don't see one that increases your weight, though. So maybe he was refering to one from a different source, like Dragon Magazine. I know there have been a few in there, too, like the infamous Chicken-Infested commoner flaw.
Anyways, looking at the actual text in my D328 issue, it says "You have double the base weight."
So, according to this:
Adamantine Body: Its base weight is 320 pounds, with a weight modifier of x6. While adamantine itself is no heavier than steel, a warforged with this feat is typically more massive than other models, with more steel and stone in its construction.
So (320*2=)640+{(2d6=)12*6=}72=712 after Flaw: Obese.
Tripled for Deformity: Obese, so 712*3=2136
Unless, you're allowed to take BOTH Obese Flaws...
Hmm
Dragon Mag Obese Flaw: 320*2=640
D&D Wiki Obese Flaw: 12*12=144
At level 1: 640+144=784
After Deformity: Obese: 784*3=2352
Too bad Willing Deformity: Tall wouldn't help further increase your weight...
Still, 2352*8 for Righteous Might alone would bring us [/i]over 9000![/i] lbs. If you add another ton, you would be over 9000! kg.
Editing this into the top: There are TWO versions of Flaw: Obese. One is in Dragon 328, the other in D&D Wiki
Anyways, looking at the actual text in my D328 issue, it says "You have double the base weight."
So, according to this:
So (320*2=)640+{(2d6=)12*6=}72=712 after Flaw: Obese.
Tripled for Deformity: Obese, so 712*3=2136
Unless, you're allowed to take BOTH Obese Flaws...
Hmm
Dragon Mag Obese Flaw: 320*2=640
D&D Wiki Obese Flaw: 12*12=144
At level 1: 640+144=784
After Deformity: Obese: 784*3=2352
Too bad Willing Deformity: Tall wouldn't help further increase your weight...
Still, 2352*8 for Righteous Might alone would bring us [/i]over 9000![/i] lbs. If you add another ton, you would be over 9000! kg.
What else does the Dragon flaw give? Surely just doubling your weight isn't all, is it? Also, when the Wiki flaw says "extra feat" does it mean the flaw allows TWO feats?