4th Ed Character Optimization - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Person_Man Mar 27, 2008 13:16:27	If someone else already posted this, I apologize. But I haven't seen it anywhere else, so here we go. So we've all seen this, the fan compiled 4th ed rules that we know about so far. So its time that we got to the important task of ruining balance by optimizing. This is a thread to discuss why X is more powerful then Y, and to post any potential builds or combos. Allow me to start: Race: Human: Bonus feat, bonus ability, flexible ability scores. Half Elf: Bonus ability from ANY class. Great for cherry picking. Class Abilities: Show Cleric: Cause Fear: Causes enemy to run away, provoking AoO. Fighter: Meh. Paladin: Meh. Ranger: Hunter's Quarry: Enemy takes d6 damage every round until defeated, although you can only target one such enemy at a time. No Save. Fox's Cunning: Shift one square and make an attack as an Immediate Action when an enemy attacks you. Evasive Reflexes + Robilar's Gambit? Rogue: Sneak Attack: Scaled damage. Not clear whether this is based on Rogue level or character level. Either way, its extra scaled damage that's easy to qualify for. Tumble: Now a once per encounter class ability instead of a Skill, though far less useful then it was in 3.5. Crimson Edge: Per Day Power: 2[W]+ Dex + 5 ongoing damage + Combat Advantage (Save Ends). Warlock: Eyebite: 1d6 + Cha damage and you're invisible against that enemy for 1 round. Great against boss monsters, or when you need to retreat without provoking AoO. Wizard: Cantrips: Fun At Will abilities with plenty of out of combat roleplaying potential. The Wizard also seems to have the only real area of effect attacks, though considering how often everyone can shift and move, they may have limited use.
#2 awaken_D_M_golem Mar 27, 2008 16:12:06	Very Nice. I was hoping for a streamlined version of what was coming. The new game seems designed around Linear Effects, instead of Geometric Effects. And that's a good thing. Still Optimizeable, just subtler.
#3 x-codes Mar 27, 2008 18:17:00	You people are 4e constipated or something. You've got it up your ass and are bouncing around with anticipation just waiting for it to come out. CHILL OUT ALREADY! It's not even two months down the road that the first official 4e material will come out (a level 1-3 module which will obviously have demo characters included) and then you can squeal and giggle and do whatever you do when you get a new toy to play with.
#4 Midnight_v Mar 27, 2008 18:18:55	Wow. I think a "+1" is in order +1
#5 bozwevial Mar 27, 2008 19:46:42	To this, I add the fact that it's really hard to optimize something knowing a small fraction of the rules...I would liken it to being a blind mechanic who feels the exterior of a car and is asked to improve the miles per gallon it gets.
#6 repeekluos Mar 27, 2008 19:57:25	Nevermind. Sorry.
#7 borg285 Mar 28, 2008 13:27:13	It seems like the wizard is still a very powerful class compared to the other classes. And now that you gain XP for disabling traps plans for getting around obstacles seem like a great alternative to pure combat optimization. Flat bonuses (ie. +5 for being trained) to skills makes skill based optimization easier to achieve that pure combat advantage. Combat will have lots more moving around, my charisma versus your AC, BBEG uses his second wind then heals himself.... Skill based plans to overcome challenges incorporates RP ingenuity, and thus XP, a main goal of optimization.
#8 awaken_D_M_golem Mar 28, 2008 14:19:20	Yep. My first post on the $4Ed boards, was to Caelic to "Shane, Come Back" to here. My first post on the 4E thread, was an attempt at humor, and ignored. This one ... I for one, am perfectly happy to see consolidated real rules, non-speculated upon, not hashed AT by naysayers, realisticly presented, etc ... Having learned my lesson about the SRD, I'm'n'a buy the Basics, regardless of prequel-ity, learn it as best I can, and sell the books to buy newer books, as soon as SRD will allow. The rules themselves, mean nothing to me right now. No context, missing explainations; it'll be in the books. That being said ... I "felt" the design seemed like 2nd level to 16th level, with levels split in half. Also lots of nerfing at the top end. I don't see anything to change my opinion. And WE will find some stuff ... there's too many of us ... Lord of Procrastination couldn't hold us back ... even if he is or isn't working on 4e.
#9 cygnusdarius Mar 28, 2008 14:26:44	Suddenly I wanna make a half-elf. But the luring call of the Dragonborn is just too tempting.
#10 Senevri Mar 28, 2008 14:36:54	And now that you gain XP for disabling traps plans for getting around obstacles seem like a great alternative to pure combat optimization.. This is new how?

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

Person_Man

Mar 27, 2008 13:16:27

If someone else already posted this, I apologize. But I haven't seen it anywhere else, so here we go.

So we've all seen this, the fan compiled 4th ed rules that we know about so far. So its time that we got to the important task of ruining balance by optimizing.

This is a thread to discuss why X is more powerful then Y, and to post any potential builds or combos. Allow me to start:

Race:

Human: Bonus feat, bonus ability, flexible ability scores.

Half Elf: Bonus ability from ANY class. Great for cherry picking.

Class Abilities:

Show

Cleric: Cause Fear: Causes enemy to run away, provoking AoO.

Fighter: Meh.

Paladin: Meh.

Ranger:

Hunter's Quarry: Enemy takes d6 damage every round until defeated, although you can only target one such enemy at a time. No Save.

Fox's Cunning: Shift one square and make an attack as an Immediate Action when an enemy attacks you. Evasive Reflexes + Robilar's Gambit?

Rogue:

Sneak Attack: Scaled damage. Not clear whether this is based on Rogue level or character level. Either way, its extra scaled damage that's easy to qualify for.

Tumble: Now a once per encounter class ability instead of a Skill, though far less useful then it was in 3.5.

Crimson Edge: Per Day Power: 2[W]+ Dex + 5 ongoing damage + Combat Advantage (Save Ends).

Warlock: Eyebite: 1d6 + Cha damage and you're invisible against that enemy for 1 round. Great against boss monsters, or when you need to retreat without provoking AoO.

Wizard: Cantrips: Fun At Will abilities with plenty of out of combat roleplaying potential. The Wizard also seems to have the only real area of effect attacks, though considering how often everyone can shift and move, they may have limited use.

awaken_D_M_golem

Mar 27, 2008 16:12:06

Very Nice.
I was hoping for a streamlined version of what was coming.
The new game seems designed around Linear Effects, instead of Geometric Effects.
And that's a good thing.
Still Optimizeable, just subtler.

x-codes

Mar 27, 2008 18:17:00

You people are 4e constipated or something. You've got it up your ass and are bouncing around with anticipation just waiting for it to come out. CHILL OUT ALREADY! It's not even two months down the road that the first official 4e material will come out (a level 1-3 module which will obviously have demo characters included) and then you can squeal and giggle and do whatever you do when you get a new toy to play with.

Midnight_v

Mar 27, 2008 18:18:55

Wow.
I think a "+1"
is in order

+1

bozwevial

Mar 27, 2008 19:46:42

To this, I add the fact that it's really hard to optimize something knowing a small fraction of the rules...I would liken it to being a blind mechanic who feels the exterior of a car and is asked to improve the miles per gallon it gets.

repeekluos

Mar 27, 2008 19:57:25

Nevermind.
Sorry.

borg285

Mar 28, 2008 13:27:13

It seems like the wizard is still a very powerful class compared to the other classes. And now that you gain XP for disabling traps plans for getting around obstacles seem like a great alternative to pure combat optimization.

Flat bonuses (ie. +5 for being trained) to skills makes skill based optimization easier to achieve that pure combat advantage. Combat will have lots more moving around, my charisma versus your AC, BBEG uses his second wind then heals himself.... Skill based plans to overcome challenges incorporates RP ingenuity, and thus XP, a main goal of optimization.

awaken_D_M_golem

Mar 28, 2008 14:19:20

Yep.

My first post on the $4Ed boards, was to Caelic to "Shane, Come Back" to here.
My first post on the 4E thread, was an attempt at humor, and ignored.
This one ...

I for one, am perfectly happy to see consolidated real rules, non-speculated upon, not hashed AT by naysayers, realisticly presented, etc ...
Having learned my lesson about the SRD, I'm'n'a buy the Basics, regardless of prequel-ity, learn it as best I can, and sell the books to buy newer books, as soon as SRD will allow.
The rules themselves, mean nothing to me right now. No context, missing explainations; it'll be in the books.

That being said ... I "felt" the design seemed like 2nd level to 16th level, with levels split in half.
Also lots of nerfing at the top end. I don't see anything to change my opinion.

And WE will find some stuff ... there's too many of us ... Lord of Procrastination couldn't hold us back ...
even if he is or isn't working on 4e.

cygnusdarius

Mar 28, 2008 14:26:44

Suddenly I wanna make a half-elf. But the luring call of the Dragonborn is just too tempting.

#10

Senevri

Mar 28, 2008 14:36:54

And now that you gain XP for disabling traps plans for getting around obstacles seem like a great alternative to pure combat optimization..

This is new how?