4th level Gray Orc Cleric Build(3.5) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4th level Gray Orc Cleric Build(3.5)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
moshimaro
Oct 13, 2008 6:16:35 I'm starting a FR campaign soon as well, we start with 4th level characters.

Came up with the following:

Gray Orc Cleric

Deity: Grumbar (elemental god of earth)

Domains:

Metal (free exotic weapon prof: bastard sword + weapon focus warhammer)

Time (free improved initiative feat)

Since gray orcs have a LA of +1 I start out as a 3rd level character without LA (buying of la +1 by playing twice through 3rd level, according to variant rules in un. arcana)

Haven't rol for Scores yet but in order of importance:
STR,WIS,CON,DEX/INT/CHR

It will be a battle cleric build.

Feats:
Power Attack
Zen Archery
@6th level Headlong Rush

Skills: Concentration,Spellcraft,Knowl.(Religion )
depending on number of skill points/lvl

Starting gold: 5400gp

Equipment:

MW Full plate 1650gp with entries for shards(Mic)
MW Heavy steel shield +1 1170gp
MW Composite Longbow 400gp
MW Bastard Sword 335gp
Restful crystal 500gp (Mic, able to sleep in armor w/o getting fatigued)
Sundark Goggles 10gp (Rotd) (negates daylight sensitivity/ -2 penalty search&spot, no prob. assuming we have a thief in the party)

total 4045gp + some standard adventuring gear.

Saving the rest of the money to get my heavy shield animated; then no problems with spellcasting (free hand) and employing bastard sword two-handed (power att doubles & STRbonus times 1.5)

Getting the stuff masterwork so it can be upgraded to magic weapons later on.

Planning on getting my Bastard Sword Keen and max the Full Plate AC enhancement.

Other items wanted:

Tooth of Savnok (Dragon mag) 2000gp move as if unarmored
Boots of Striding&Springing 5500gp to get a move of 50ft in full plate, seems nice with Headlong Rush
Belt of Giant Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor etc.

Was thinking on taking the Somatic Weaponry feat(CM or CAr) but since the bastard sword also works best with two hands free I decided to go with the animated shield option.

Like to hear your comments on this build...
#2
17flyingaxes
Oct 13, 2008 16:08:31 First off, Second, I'd drop one domain for Undeath. This isn't vital, but it gives Extra Turning as a bonus feat, which will let you do some very good things with metamagics at surprisingly low levels. Also, Metal Domain doesn't do much, because pretty soon you'll be wielding that Bastard Sword 2H which doesn't require a proficiency feat.

Planning is also a very good cleric domain (it gives Extend Spell, which lets persistent spells last two days), but it doesn't really fit well with your typical orc.

Second, I would definitely drop Zen Archery. As a cleric, you'll be getting maxed flame strikes and whatnot soon enough; ranged weapons will be your most ineffective method of dealing damage, especially since you'll be charging with speed bonus most of the time. Also, Zen Archery will give at most +3 or so to hit with bows, which isn't really that good. Replace it with Quicken Spell or Persistent Spell.

At level 6, I would get either Divine Metamagic: Quicken or Divine Metamagic: Persistent, depending on your playing style. If you have at least 12 Cha, you can use divine quicken right away; if you have less than 16, you'll need Reliquary Symbols or Nightsticks to do persistent. Why get these at such a low level? Well, you'll immediately be able to cast persistent bull's strength, giving yourself a constant +4 to str. At level 7, replace this with a persistent Divine Power, which will give you a fighter's BAB, +1 hp/evel, and +6 str. At higher levels, also keep an eye out for Righteous Might, which will give a bunch of other fun bonuses. If you raise undead, you can also use persistent spell to keep them with you all the time.

If you're going with headlong rush, consider taking a level of barbarian to get Shadow Lion Totem and thus pounce. Heck, most orcs have at least a little barbarian training. It also might be worth it to check out leap attack, combat brute, or shock trooper.

As for skills, I've never been able to do anything with spellcraft as a cleric, and concentration does less than you'd think. If you're going with leap attack, I'd put points into jump.

Finally, when I play an orc cleric I usually rank stats WIS/STR/CON/CHA/DEX/INT. Str is extremely easy for a cleric to buff, while wis makes your spells harder to resist and gives you bonus spells. You'll never need more than 12 dex, and there are very few skills you use; cha doesn't do much, but it does give turning attempts.
#3
Blade2718
Oct 13, 2008 18:14:52 As per the latest version of the Metal domain (Spell Compendium), you only get to choose your focus and proficiency with the light hammer or the war hammer.
#4
moshimaro
Oct 14, 2008 5:14:33 So I have been changing some things, let me know if it's any good.

Gray Orc Cleric 2 / Barbarian 1

Deity: Grumbar (elemental god of earth)

Domains:

Time (free improved initiative feat)

Balance (once per day WIS bonus to AC for 1 round/lvl)

Since gray orcs have a LA of +1 I start out as a 3rd level character without LA (buying of la +1 by playing twice through 3rd level, according to variant rules in un. arcana)

Haven't rol for Scores yet but in order of importance:
STR,WIS,CON,CHR,INT/DEX

It will be a battle cleric build with one level dip in Barbarian.

Feats:
1 Power Attack
3 Zen Archery/Extended Rage/Cleave...Quicken Spell......Extend Spell
6 Headlong Rush | |
9 Leap Attack..................................Extra Turning.. ...Extra Turning
12 .................................................DivMM: Quicken...Persistent Spell
15 .........................................................................DivMM: Persist.
18 ...

Skills: Concentration,Knowl.(Religion), Jump, Intimidate, Spellcraft
depending on number of skill points/lvl

Starting gold: 5400gp

Equipment:

MW Full plate 1650gp with entries for shards(Mic)
MW Heavy steel shield +1 1170gp
MW Composite Longbow 400gp
MW Falchion 375gp
Restful crystal 500gp (Mic, able to sleep in armor w/o getting fatigued)
Sundark Goggles 10gp (Rotd) (negates daylight sensitivity/ -2 penalty search&spot, no prob. assuming we have a thief in the party)

total 4085gp + some standard adventuring gear.

Planning on going with the Falchion since Barbarian allows me to take martial weapons, Metal domain is indeed revised so that's a no go anymore.

Have looked into the mentioned combat feats:

Combat Brute seems nice but then I first need to select Improved Sunder as a feat and I don't know if that's worth it.

Shock Trooper: the Heedless Charge maneuver would be nice but it also requires another feat: improved bull rush and doesn't go well with Headlong Rush (which gives the victim a free AoO)

Also picked up the spiritual lion totem instead of fast movement as barbarian alternate class feature(CC46) Still have to see if my DM will allow it.

I can't choose Undeath since I'm only allowed to have official Realms gods and the only one besides a drow god is Velsharoon which is NE by alignment since we'll be a good party and I need to be able to cast cure spells it won't be possible.

Chosen to stick with Time domain which only Grumbar has, or another Elf god which won't be appropiate for my Orc I guess :p and choose Balance instead of Metal; Balance lets you add your WIS-mod. to AC for 1 round/cleric lvl; This does seem a usefull ability alongside headlong rush charges. This second domain isn't very strong but it's just the best of the rest after Time domain.

Furthermore I've read in the newest FAQ that divine MM can't be boost by extra turn attempts provided by elemental domains as well as you need to have the MM feat already before getting DivMM. So if I want to take the DivMM: Quicken I first need Quicken Spell already as a feat.

As for persistent spell in the current tree I would be able to cast persistent @15 level. I might be able to reduce it to 12th if I take planning domain but the gos providing it haven't got other usefull domains: the best possible option would be Helm with domains planning and strength. Also I could bring it down to 9th level when I can get a hold of a nightstick so I don't have to take the extra turning feat. In the latter case I would be able to cast persistent spell Divine Power @ 9th level (BB1/CL8). Still pondering on that option.
#5
divisionbyzer0
Oct 14, 2008 12:04:28
Planning is also a very good cleric domain (it gives Extend Spell, which lets persistent spells last two days), but it doesn't really fit well with your typical orc.

It sure does for the clerics of Ilneval, Gruumsh's lieutenant whose portfolio includes battle and strategy.
Ilneval's domains: Orc, Planning, Evil, War, Destruction

PCs are atypical by default anyhow. Roleplaying an orc who worships an Elf deity could be fun.

As a +1 bonus you can put "warning" from the MIC on your weapon which gives you +5 to init, that way you really don't need time domain. To use a falchion with any shield other than buckler you need to get it animated.

Don't forget to make your first level the barbarian not the cleric.
#6
17flyingaxes
Oct 14, 2008 13:40:12 Yeah, the Headlong Rush + Heedless Charge thing is tricky to pull off. I find it only really works if you've got a reach weapon and thus can't be AoO'ed. As a cleric, that's not always available.
#7
divisionbyzer0
Oct 15, 2008 0:27:17 If allowed by your DM since you have 1 level of barbarian take variant class feature "dashing step" instead of "trap sense".

Dashing Step
Lose: trap sense.
Gain: No AC penalties on charges, and whenever you would get +1 from trap sense, +1 AC vs Attacks of Opportunity.

It's from an issue of Dragon.

If you really wanna avoid AoO from headlong rush pick a reach weapon and end your charge before you enter their square.

I find it only really works if you've got a reach weapon and thus can't be AoO'ed. As a cleric, that's not always available.

Longspear isn't a simple weapon that has reach?
#8
17flyingaxes
Oct 15, 2008 0:42:19 It is. I just like using the weapon of my gods, and orc gods usually like really big things that you smash things with.
#9
moshimaro
Oct 15, 2008 4:04:56 Hey guys,

thanks for the replies,

Talked to my DM yesterday showed him my possible build and asked what his thoughts were:

He wasn't happy on the possible choice of Helm; domains planning and strength so taking an Elf god will definately be out of the question. Ilneval will be a no no as well since I can't be evil and need to be able to cast cure spells, which one who worships an evil deity (even if my own alignment would be neutral) isn't possible if I'm correct.

As for Divine Metamagic: he considers it somehow broken especially DMM: Quicken and DMM: Persistent so I'm letting that build go.

All in all I think I won't be needing the planning domain

Alternate class feature for the barbarian: he will allow the Spirit Lion Totem but replacing trap sense by the one you mentioned is going to be difficult (since it's from Dragon magazine)

He also didn't allow sundark goggles or any other cheap variant: Since it requires a feat to get rid of daylight sensitivity(daylight adaptation), 10gp to replace a feat(true it's a weak feat but anyhow) he feels is way to cheap.

As for the warning enhancement; have to look into that one.

The reach weapon might be an option: Longspear it'll probably be then but my main weapon of choice will still be the falchion.

For my 3rd level feat I'm still very much in doubt: might take cleave but I'm very intrigued by extra rage and extended rage, just don't know which one will be more useful (partly depending on my CON score I guess)

As for starting with a level barbarian I'm not sure on that one either:

I want Concentration and Knowledge Religion from the cleric skill list and only Jump (for the leap attack possibility @9th level) from the barbarian skill list.

So if I start with Cleric, assuming my INTmodifier = 0 I'll have 4 ranks in both conc and know(re) then taking 1 level barbarian gives me 4 skill points which I can use for 4 ranks of jump.

Why did you recommend I'd start with barbarian besides more skillpoints?

The idea of having a Gray Orc charging 100 ft. with a headlong rush ending in a leap attack whilst wearing full plate is just too sweet.
#10
divisionbyzer0
Oct 15, 2008 18:27:07
It is. I just like using the weapon of my gods, and orc gods usually like really big things that you smash things with.

No.

Not really, which I find odd actually.

You ever read the favored weapons of the Orc Pantheon?

There's not a single two handed "MMM ME BIG ORC BIG WEAPON MAKE BIG SMASH" weapon on there:

Gruumsh: Long Spear
Bagrutu: Spiked Gauntlet
Luthic: Claws (?)
Yurtrus: Unarmed Strike
Ilneval: Longsword (Bastard sword in 2e I think)
Shargas: Short Sword

Yurtrus' monks are probably dishing out the most damage if they are built right.
#11
17flyingaxes
Oct 15, 2008 19:51:04 Weird! I usually just pick whichever god has the most fangs/blood in their picture, and that's usually a greathammer or a longsword.
#12
divisionbyzer0
Oct 15, 2008 20:32:04 Yeah, at least one should have an axe.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 moshimaro Oct 13, 2008 6:16:35	I'm starting a FR campaign soon as well, we start with 4th level characters. Came up with the following: Gray Orc Cleric Deity: Grumbar (elemental god of earth) Domains: Metal (free exotic weapon prof: bastard sword + weapon focus warhammer) Time (free improved initiative feat) Since gray orcs have a LA of +1 I start out as a 3rd level character without LA (buying of la +1 by playing twice through 3rd level, according to variant rules in un. arcana) Haven't rol for Scores yet but in order of importance: STR,WIS,CON,DEX/INT/CHR It will be a battle cleric build. Feats: Power Attack Zen Archery @6th level Headlong Rush Skills: Concentration,Spellcraft,Knowl.(Religion ) depending on number of skill points/lvl Starting gold: 5400gp Equipment: MW Full plate 1650gp with entries for shards(Mic) MW Heavy steel shield +1 1170gp MW Composite Longbow 400gp MW Bastard Sword 335gp Restful crystal 500gp (Mic, able to sleep in armor w/o getting fatigued) Sundark Goggles 10gp (Rotd) (negates daylight sensitivity/ -2 penalty search&spot, no prob. assuming we have a thief in the party) total 4045gp + some standard adventuring gear. Saving the rest of the money to get my heavy shield animated; then no problems with spellcasting (free hand) and employing bastard sword two-handed (power att doubles & STRbonus times 1.5) Getting the stuff masterwork so it can be upgraded to magic weapons later on. Planning on getting my Bastard Sword Keen and max the Full Plate AC enhancement. Other items wanted: Tooth of Savnok (Dragon mag) 2000gp move as if unarmored Boots of Striding&Springing 5500gp to get a move of 50ft in full plate, seems nice with Headlong Rush Belt of Giant Strength, Amulet of Natural Armor etc. Was thinking on taking the Somatic Weaponry feat(CM or CAr) but since the bastard sword also works best with two hands free I decided to go with the animated shield option. Like to hear your comments on this build...
#2 17flyingaxes Oct 13, 2008 16:08:31	First off, Second, I'd drop one domain for Undeath. This isn't vital, but it gives Extra Turning as a bonus feat, which will let you do some very good things with metamagics at surprisingly low levels. Also, Metal Domain doesn't do much, because pretty soon you'll be wielding that Bastard Sword 2H which doesn't require a proficiency feat. Planning is also a very good cleric domain (it gives Extend Spell, which lets persistent spells last two days), but it doesn't really fit well with your typical orc. Second, I would definitely drop Zen Archery. As a cleric, you'll be getting maxed flame strikes and whatnot soon enough; ranged weapons will be your most ineffective method of dealing damage, especially since you'll be charging with speed bonus most of the time. Also, Zen Archery will give at most +3 or so to hit with bows, which isn't really that good. Replace it with Quicken Spell or Persistent Spell. At level 6, I would get either Divine Metamagic: Quicken or Divine Metamagic: Persistent, depending on your playing style. If you have at least 12 Cha, you can use divine quicken right away; if you have less than 16, you'll need Reliquary Symbols or Nightsticks to do persistent. Why get these at such a low level? Well, you'll immediately be able to cast persistent bull's strength, giving yourself a constant +4 to str. At level 7, replace this with a persistent Divine Power, which will give you a fighter's BAB, +1 hp/evel, and +6 str. At higher levels, also keep an eye out for Righteous Might, which will give a bunch of other fun bonuses. If you raise undead, you can also use persistent spell to keep them with you all the time. If you're going with headlong rush, consider taking a level of barbarian to get Shadow Lion Totem and thus pounce. Heck, most orcs have at least a little barbarian training. It also might be worth it to check out leap attack, combat brute, or shock trooper. As for skills, I've never been able to do anything with spellcraft as a cleric, and concentration does less than you'd think. If you're going with leap attack, I'd put points into jump. Finally, when I play an orc cleric I usually rank stats WIS/STR/CON/CHA/DEX/INT. Str is extremely easy for a cleric to buff, while wis makes your spells harder to resist and gives you bonus spells. You'll never need more than 12 dex, and there are very few skills you use; cha doesn't do much, but it does give turning attempts.
#3 Blade2718 Oct 13, 2008 18:14:52	As per the latest version of the Metal domain (Spell Compendium), you only get to choose your focus and proficiency with the light hammer or the war hammer.
#4 moshimaro Oct 14, 2008 5:14:33	So I have been changing some things, let me know if it's any good. Gray Orc Cleric 2 / Barbarian 1 Deity: Grumbar (elemental god of earth) Domains: Time (free improved initiative feat) Balance (once per day WIS bonus to AC for 1 round/lvl) Since gray orcs have a LA of +1 I start out as a 3rd level character without LA (buying of la +1 by playing twice through 3rd level, according to variant rules in un. arcana) Haven't rol for Scores yet but in order of importance: STR,WIS,CON,CHR,INT/DEX It will be a battle cleric build with one level dip in Barbarian. Feats: 1 Power Attack 3 Zen Archery/Extended Rage/Cleave...Quicken Spell......Extend Spell 6 Headlong Rush \| \| 9 Leap Attack..................................Extra Turning.. ...Extra Turning 12 .................................................DivMM: Quicken...Persistent Spell 15 .........................................................................DivMM: Persist. 18 ... Skills: Concentration,Knowl.(Religion), Jump, Intimidate, Spellcraft depending on number of skill points/lvl Starting gold: 5400gp Equipment: MW Full plate 1650gp with entries for shards(Mic) MW Heavy steel shield +1 1170gp MW Composite Longbow 400gp MW Falchion 375gp Restful crystal 500gp (Mic, able to sleep in armor w/o getting fatigued) Sundark Goggles 10gp (Rotd) (negates daylight sensitivity/ -2 penalty search&spot, no prob. assuming we have a thief in the party) total 4085gp + some standard adventuring gear. Planning on going with the Falchion since Barbarian allows me to take martial weapons, Metal domain is indeed revised so that's a no go anymore. Have looked into the mentioned combat feats: Combat Brute seems nice but then I first need to select Improved Sunder as a feat and I don't know if that's worth it. Shock Trooper: the Heedless Charge maneuver would be nice but it also requires another feat: improved bull rush and doesn't go well with Headlong Rush (which gives the victim a free AoO) Also picked up the spiritual lion totem instead of fast movement as barbarian alternate class feature(CC46) Still have to see if my DM will allow it. I can't choose Undeath since I'm only allowed to have official Realms gods and the only one besides a drow god is Velsharoon which is NE by alignment since we'll be a good party and I need to be able to cast cure spells it won't be possible. Chosen to stick with Time domain which only Grumbar has, or another Elf god which won't be appropiate for my Orc I guess :p and choose Balance instead of Metal; Balance lets you add your WIS-mod. to AC for 1 round/cleric lvl; This does seem a usefull ability alongside headlong rush charges. This second domain isn't very strong but it's just the best of the rest after Time domain. Furthermore I've read in the newest FAQ that divine MM can't be boost by extra turn attempts provided by elemental domains as well as you need to have the MM feat already before getting DivMM. So if I want to take the DivMM: Quicken I first need Quicken Spell already as a feat. As for persistent spell in the current tree I would be able to cast persistent @15 level. I might be able to reduce it to 12th if I take planning domain but the gos providing it haven't got other usefull domains: the best possible option would be Helm with domains planning and strength. Also I could bring it down to 9th level when I can get a hold of a nightstick so I don't have to take the extra turning feat. In the latter case I would be able to cast persistent spell Divine Power @ 9th level (BB1/CL8). Still pondering on that option.
#5 divisionbyzer0 Oct 14, 2008 12:04:28	Planning is also a very good cleric domain (it gives Extend Spell, which lets persistent spells last two days), but it doesn't really fit well with your typical orc. It sure does for the clerics of Ilneval, Gruumsh's lieutenant whose portfolio includes battle and strategy. Ilneval's domains: Orc, Planning, Evil, War, Destruction PCs are atypical by default anyhow. Roleplaying an orc who worships an Elf deity could be fun. As a +1 bonus you can put "warning" from the MIC on your weapon which gives you +5 to init, that way you really don't need time domain. To use a falchion with any shield other than buckler you need to get it animated. Don't forget to make your first level the barbarian not the cleric.
#6 17flyingaxes Oct 14, 2008 13:40:12	Yeah, the Headlong Rush + Heedless Charge thing is tricky to pull off. I find it only really works if you've got a reach weapon and thus can't be AoO'ed. As a cleric, that's not always available.
#7 divisionbyzer0 Oct 15, 2008 0:27:17	If allowed by your DM since you have 1 level of barbarian take variant class feature "dashing step" instead of "trap sense". Dashing Step Lose: trap sense. Gain: No AC penalties on charges, and whenever you would get +1 from trap sense, +1 AC vs Attacks of Opportunity. It's from an issue of Dragon. If you really wanna avoid AoO from headlong rush pick a reach weapon and end your charge before you enter their square. I find it only really works if you've got a reach weapon and thus can't be AoO'ed. As a cleric, that's not always available. Longspear isn't a simple weapon that has reach?
#8 17flyingaxes Oct 15, 2008 0:42:19	It is. I just like using the weapon of my gods, and orc gods usually like really big things that you smash things with.
#9 moshimaro Oct 15, 2008 4:04:56	Hey guys, thanks for the replies, Talked to my DM yesterday showed him my possible build and asked what his thoughts were: He wasn't happy on the possible choice of Helm; domains planning and strength so taking an Elf god will definately be out of the question. Ilneval will be a no no as well since I can't be evil and need to be able to cast cure spells, which one who worships an evil deity (even if my own alignment would be neutral) isn't possible if I'm correct. As for Divine Metamagic: he considers it somehow broken especially DMM: Quicken and DMM: Persistent so I'm letting that build go. All in all I think I won't be needing the planning domain Alternate class feature for the barbarian: he will allow the Spirit Lion Totem but replacing trap sense by the one you mentioned is going to be difficult (since it's from Dragon magazine) He also didn't allow sundark goggles or any other cheap variant: Since it requires a feat to get rid of daylight sensitivity(daylight adaptation), 10gp to replace a feat(true it's a weak feat but anyhow) he feels is way to cheap. As for the warning enhancement; have to look into that one. The reach weapon might be an option: Longspear it'll probably be then but my main weapon of choice will still be the falchion. For my 3rd level feat I'm still very much in doubt: might take cleave but I'm very intrigued by extra rage and extended rage, just don't know which one will be more useful (partly depending on my CON score I guess) As for starting with a level barbarian I'm not sure on that one either: I want Concentration and Knowledge Religion from the cleric skill list and only Jump (for the leap attack possibility @9th level) from the barbarian skill list. So if I start with Cleric, assuming my INTmodifier = 0 I'll have 4 ranks in both conc and know(re) then taking 1 level barbarian gives me 4 skill points which I can use for 4 ranks of jump. Why did you recommend I'd start with barbarian besides more skillpoints? The idea of having a Gray Orc charging 100 ft. with a headlong rush ending in a leap attack whilst wearing full plate is just too sweet.
#10 divisionbyzer0 Oct 15, 2008 18:27:07	It is. I just like using the weapon of my gods, and orc gods usually like really big things that you smash things with. No. Not really, which I find odd actually. You ever read the favored weapons of the Orc Pantheon? There's not a single two handed "MMM ME BIG ORC BIG WEAPON MAKE BIG SMASH" weapon on there: Gruumsh: Long Spear Bagrutu: Spiked Gauntlet Luthic: Claws (?) Yurtrus: Unarmed Strike Ilneval: Longsword (Bastard sword in 2e I think) Shargas: Short Sword Yurtrus' monks are probably dishing out the most damage if they are built right.
#11 17flyingaxes Oct 15, 2008 19:51:04	Weird! I usually just pick whichever god has the most fangs/blood in their picture, and that's usually a greathammer or a longsword.
#12 divisionbyzer0 Oct 15, 2008 20:32:04	Yeah, at least one should have an axe.