So I'm running a 3.5 game in a custom world. It's a bunch islands really so, there's lots of pirates and things of that nature. I'm not going to go far into the back story of what's going on but, there's a bunch of stuff going on on each of the island nations and it's all being done by a secret society run by the 7 Deadly Sins (yes very Fullmetal Alchemist but, I really stole the idea from Dante's Inferno).
Anyway, I was wondering if someone could help me with some builds. Gluttony is who I'm working on presently. He already has a bite attack and I'm trying to remember what book I saw a feat in where you can swallow something you bite or initiate a grapple. I have no idea what sort of class he should be, I'm almost thinking a Monk and playing it like a Sumo Wrestler or a Dungeon Crasher Fighter doing the same kind of thing.
So far here's the other ideas for the other 6 sins: Lust - Human Montebank (the base class from Dragon Magazine Compendium), Envy - Doppleganger Factotum (really just to be funny), Greed - Wizard (Conjurer), Wrath - Barbarion (what else did you expect) possibly into Frenzied Berserker, Pride - A Warblade, Knight, maybe even a Paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter, Sloth - I have absolutely no idea, maybe just a race being it's favored class, or a 20th level commoner that has the chicken infested flaw and the weresheep flaw (which gives it the extra tastey flaw making it small and anyone in a 10ft. radius has to make a will save DC 10+wis to resist killing and eating it)
Well got to say 2 things:
1. FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST ROCKS!
2. You should take a look at the "Unholy Warriors Handbook" published by Green Ronin. I do not know if it can somhow be associated with Wizards and I would prohibit it for Players but you can gain a good overview over everything that's dark... Try the Champion of the Dark Seven!
Well got to say 2 things:
1. FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST ROCKS!
2. You should take a look at the "Unholy Warriors Handbook" published by Green Ronin. I do not know if it can somhow be associated with Wizards and I would prohibit it for Players but you can gain a good overview over everything that's dark... Try the Champion of the Dark Seven!
I have 3 things to say:
1. I completely agree
2. Where can find this Unholy Warriors Handbook?
3. I think I'm giving the "Sins" special abilities similar to the domains of the same name (from the spell compendium) only I might make them slightly different. For instance, I think I'm going to make Gluttony able to swallow people as a special ability but, they can make a Reflex Save or Escape Artist check to get out of it.
I hate to say it but i do not know where to find it.
As I said, I do not use it and it's been a long time since I saw it last time.
I remember to have seen it on some store sites but I do unfortunaly not remember the names...
I recommend asking for persons who have the book and ask them for advice.
I really like that concept, & FMA does rock.
I'd like to see what you decide for their final builds when completed. :3
On a related note, Flogging Molly has a song called "Seven Deadly Sins," which is about a group of drunken pirates who call themselves the Seven Deadly Sins. (Although this has nothing to do with what I'm about to write)
Envy: "Sorrow for another's good" explains this quite well. In both envy and avarice, we find that desire plays a key role. Where the two differentiate is how far that desire goes, and to what it is placed. In envy, we also find that it is generally the desire for something that one feels he/she is lacking, whereas in greed, it doesn't matter much because they want it all. In Dante's Inferno, I think that it shows a man in purgatory with his eyes sewn shut with thread or wire. I picture this character as going one of a couple ways depending on the DM. You seem to want to take it into the realm of good fun, which is good, because this character archetype could be depressing to portray.
Pride/vanity: A narcissus, megalomaniac... et cetera. You seem to have the right idea here. Dante's definition of it was "Love for one's self, perverted into hate for one's neighbor". In the case of Pride, I would say that the offender sees himself as better than the Gods, or better than anything for that matter... Your call's as good as mine.
Avarice/greed: This guy is not to be trusted. As much as we're dealing with pirates here... above all else, this guy will sell the other six down the river for earthly gain. Most people will be right in their definition of greed.
Lust/Extravagance(as Dante details it): Don Juan is one approach, but with the word "extravagance" in mind, you could just as easily go with someone with a rather hedonistic approach to life. Not hedonistic in that they gorge themselves on wine, whilst laying about being fed by hand-servants and being fanned, but that they favor lavish abodes, flashy shows, and often make a theatre of everything. This can include melodrama, long-winded speeches that are nearly ALWAYS contrived and pretentious, preference playing mind-games with the enemy as a show of superiority... or even, yes, seducing a person in the party, or falling in love with someone they know full well they ought not to be with.
Sloth, or Acedia (as Dante details it): Laziness is one approach, but another is--and this is how I perceive Dante's insight on it (although I haven't read his commentary, which, might I add, was extremely pretentious seeing as the only commentaries written at the time were on the bible)--follows the way of one who is apathetic/indifferent toward religion. I think this is an important train of thought to follow, because the NPC will have an indifference toward right or wrong (or good and evil). He'll still be passively lazily-witted, but that doesn't mean he/she can't get the job done. Keep in mind a non-believer, blasphemer, that is not actively opposed to anything in particular, but rather just extremely careless. Also, the Sloth/Acedian would be characterized by his/her lack of joy, as early Christian's believed that those who were depressed were unwilling to accept the joy of God into their hearts'.
Gluttony: You seem to be going the right way with gluttony, and detailing these is getting painful. But maybe Gluttony lives in a state of thought where he may view his ability to over-indulge as a sign of status or power (not to mention that he likes it). Just a thought.
Wrath: 'Ira'... could make a good name. Hmm... In its original form, anger was encompassed internally, rather than externally. And so Suicide was the Ultimate, albeit most tragic, expression of wrath directed inwardly as the final rejection of God's gifts. So you could ad that in somewhere if you feel it worthy of story. For the most part, though, I think you hit the nail on the head.
I hope some of this helps in character development/direction of focus.
Since I couldn't find the book here is my other advice:
1. Pride: Fallen Paladin (maybe even a fallen Celestial)
2. Gluttony: Werewolf (or other Lycantroph) with a taste for Humanoids
3. Lust: A succubus-blooded sorceress, with a knack for Enchantments
4. Sloth: A desperate, lazy wizard and Mindbender who does nothing most of the time
5. Wrath: As you said, Barbarian
6. Envy: Tricky, probably a Rouge who secretly wishes to kill all the others to get more power
7. Greed: A Red Dragon, willing to increase it's Hoard
Or just stick with FMA, that would be awesome
Actually the reason I didn't really put the races is because all of them are homebrewed (well except human) :/ I gave all of them a special ability because they're the embodied form of one of the 7 deadly sins. This is what I have right now:
Lust: Female - Human - Mountebank (the base class from the Dragon Magazine Compendium), the base class is kind of similar to the prestige class in complete mage or divine or wherever it is but, it also gets something similar to sneak attack and a thing where it stares into the persons eyes and makes them flatfooted and some other stuff. On top of this anyone that comes into a 10ft. radius (and can see her) has to make a will save or become fascinated.
Gluttony: Male - If you've ever played Fable the race is very similar to a hobbe mixed with a dwarf, they're small and get powerful build and a plus to strength. They also get a natural bite attack. I think I'm going to make Gluttony a Monk with Improved Grapple and make him go in to Reaping Mauler from Complete Warrior. His special ability will allow him to initiate a grapple by biting someone. I might also give him "Bite of the King" as a spell-like ability so many times per day but, the "stomach dimension" described in the spell will actually be Gluttony's stomach.
Envy: ? - ? - Factotum, Envy isn't going to have a specific race but, (h)er special ability is going to let he(r) change into any race and she gains all of the benefits and drawbacks of the race. Pretty much like polymorph at will. I did factotum because it's kind of like (s)he's jealous of everyone so (s)he learned a little of everything.
Greed: Female - Kind of like a Lizard Folk only more of a Dragon version (they get a acid breath weapon and a tail attack) I actually just changed this because of AleristheS33ker's suggestion. I'm going to make her a Dragon Shaman with a Red Dragon as her Totem Dragon. I'm not sure what her special ability will be yet.
Wrath: Female - Think of a Minotaur then replace the bull with a Rhino, that's what Wrath is. Like I said she's going to be a Barbarian and I'm still not sure about letting her go in to Frenzied Berserker. Her special ability is going to let her subtract 2 points of Wisdom to gain 1 point of Strength.
Sloth: Male - Yeti kind of thing - Wizard (Conjurer). Sloth is going to have the slow flaw and on top of that he's always fatigued. He's going to summon things to do his bidding. His special ability is going to be that he cannot become exhausted and anyone that get's within 10ft. of him has to make a fortitude save or they become fatigued.
Pride: Male - A lion person - Paladin of Slaughter. Pride is going to be super cocky and arrogant and he won't really bow to anyone other than the leader of the group (who I have yet to figure out anything about but, I've got a lot of time). I think I'm going to have Pride kill off Greed when Greed catches the PC's.
Have you thought of celestial races that corrospond with the seven holy virtues?
I've been working on the sins for quite sometime, actually. since you are working on Gluttony currently, I'll start there...
I used a modified Famine Spirit when I made Gluttony the first time. It really depends on whether you want to represent the Sins with Creatures or Characters. Famine Spirit is originally 3.0, (MMII) but it has since been adapted for 3.5. You can also find it's stats in the Elder Evils book.
Sloth: I used a summoner build. The best way to represent most of the sins seems to be through heavy RP. Sloth sat in a chair and summoned various Demons and Archons to do his bidding. He also had various Symbols (usually symbol of sleep) that he would have in place before the encounter. I also prepared spells that would weaken, exhaust, or fatigue the party.
Envy: Changeling Spell thief. I also gave it spells that allowed it to bestow negative levels, drain hit points, and lower the players' ability scores.
Pride: I had a hard time with him at first. I eventually made him semi-impossible to hit. Lvl 15 with I think 60 AC and Pearl of Black Doubt (Book of Nine Swords). Of course, he eventually degraded into a group joke and became represented as a homosexual... lol Players loved trying to hit him with rainbow blast...
Greed: Lots of magical items, including a custom amulet that creates a door to an extra dimensional mansion full of junk. I gave him double gold for his level but I can't quite remember what build I used...
Wrath: I cheated on this one... I made him gestalt so that I could cram more power into him. I managed to deal around 406 damage in one round with a bad roll against a player who thought he could take him...Basically, try and get him alot of attacks at a decent attack bonus, maybe give him rage and frenzy abilities.
Lust: Nymph with levels and feats from The Book of Erotic Fantasies. I gave her two daggers, one was Impaling and Paralyzing, the other was keen and pleasuring. it made for a fun combo. She would morph into the target's fantasy, take them to her room, have some fun, then kill her. She was dubbed the Black Widow by town guards who were hunting her down.
Anyway, those are my ideas. If you want more specific details, email me or whatever and I'll give you the builds. most are at least lvl 15 though.
Whatever you use, I would not make the Sins friends...
Wrath, for example wouldn't team up with anyone and Pride is far to proud to team up with someone...
I would also not make them to be unbelievable powerful but to bring flavor and style into your campaign.
One special ability possible for Greed is Telekinesis or Magnetism. On every round, the PCs have to make Strenght Checks or whatever they currently hold gets pulled to Greed, including weapons and wands.
By the way, I somehow like Envy
The Envy I made? And that is a really good idea for Greed lol. Do you care if I use that? Also, I don't know if I put Prides "special ability" but, it's going to give him all around vision (or whatever that's called) so he can't be flanked
I don't mind if you use it
For Pride I would go even further and give him Uncanny Dodge and the ability to make normal Actions during the PC's suprise round. That will be pretty annoying, I guess
After having sez up an ambush, planned their tactics for hours and finally attack him... ... they will go insane if you say something like, "Alright, his Sword drops you", then they go "Whaaaat?" and you just reply "Thats how it is,
"
Hmm, just wondering, how about Pride getting more powerful the more the PC's harm him?
To answer some questions, the races of the 7 sins are all playable races for the PC's (it's set in a world I made). Since the world is set in a renaissance type era Sloth is definitely going to be carrying a gun and I think I'm going to have Pride dual wield a bastard sword or some big heavy one handed melee weapon and a gun. On top of this the guns in my world can have up to 6 barrels (with an additional cost of course) so that's 6d10 for a medium character with a 6-barreled pistol. Sloth is going to have a rifle on the other hand (which can deal 6d12) on top of being a Conjurer.
I think I'm just going to leave Pride with all around vision because I don't want him to be too over powered. He's going to carry quite a few guns (because it takes 2 full round actions in my game to reload a gun). Because he's a Paladin of Slaughter anyone that gets in a 10ft. radius takes a -1 to AC and he's immune to fear on top of him having all around vision.
As far as the 7 heavenly virtues go, I'm working on them, they're class isn't really going to have a lot to do with what they do it's going to be more of a roll playing thing but, here's what I have so far.
Chastity: Some innocent little girl (human) and probably a cleric or favored soul.
Temperance: Male - The race is similar to an elf but, he's a Scout/Ranger/Blade Dancer (from Oriental Adventures) he functions like a Dragoon in combat
Kindness: ? - it's pretty much a living statue, imagine a dryad made of stone (only it's not necessarily a woman) and (s)he's going to be a Wizard (Abjurer) because a Cleric would be to cleché
Charity: Male - the race is a humanoid frog. Probably a Paladin of Freedom that's kind of a Robin Hood type character (only instead of stealing from the rich he takes from the corrupt)
Patience: Female - pretty much a human with blue skin that can float above of the ground as if it were walking is the race. For class I'm not 100% sure.
Diligence: Female - imagine a halfling with 6 fingers on each hand that is a changes colors like leafs. For a class I'm still not sure
Humility: Male - the race is a humanoid mole. I'm not to sure on a class here either.
Like I said the heavenly virtues are more of a role playing thing than the class.
O also, when Envy changes into a race (s)he's going to have some sort of physical problem or deformity, (s)he's never going to be happy with what (s)he is or how (s)he looks. Which is why (s)he's a Factotum because (s)he couldn't make up h(er/is) mind on wheter (s)he wanted to cast spells or be melee or ranged focused or skill focused even. (S)he's just never happy with h(er/im)self.
One last thing, Wrath is going to grow to Large size in her rage which means she gains an addtional +2 strength, she takes up a 10ft. space has a 10ft. reach. The downside (for her) is that she takes a -1 on attack rolls and AC.
If evil is far more powerful in your world, make the Virtues far less powerful, and the other way round. I would also suggest that, if the PC's increase the amount of, for example kindness, the "Avatar" ( Personification) of that Virtue (or maybe Sin?) should somehow increase in power.
So if the PCs somehow manage to redeem an evil king, for example, and he gets very kind, improve Kindness' power. That would show the PCs that they actually help the Sins or Virtues without even noticing.
Haha, that's actually a really good idea. I'm not sure how I'd do it. O to address another thing said by someone. The sins technically work together (with the exception of Greed) but, only because their mother (who is like the embodyment of evil) makes them. Greed will get killed off by Wrath and Pride will end up killing himself. The virtues aren't really going to be in combat that often which is why the class they are doesn't matter a whole lot. Both the Sins and the Virtues are "secret societies" that very few people know about.
Hmm, the letters F, M and A are more and more whirling around in my mind Are you sure you don't want to add a male leader of the virtues called "Hohenheim"?
somehow really like that story of yours
No lol but, there is a person that can materialize fire out of thin air (he doesn't need a spark). O and I'm not only ripping FMA off, the axe gang is prevelent through the world (taken from Kung Fu Hustle) and after a few of the other sins have been killed off, Sloth is going to hire an assassin based on Anton Chigurh (the assassin/killer from No Country for Old Men). The people I play with always do random stuff like this in games. For instance, the last game we played in had a hole bunch of Alice in Wonderland characters (the queen of hearts, the mad hatter, the march hair, and quite a few more) and the three people behind all the mayhem were: Willy Wonka, Jiminy Glick (a Martin Short character), and Kramer (from Seinfeld). Another example is we played a game in sword coast (or somewhere like that) and I played a Hadozee Dread Pirate the cabin boy on my ship was Flapjack (from the marvelous misadventures), my brother played a character based on Blanca (from Street Fighter) and our friend played a tiny warforged scout based on megaman
I didn't see it mentioned here, but there's the Gluttonous template over at dndwiki.com. It's LA +0, so it may work well for a PC race.
Wow, that actually really helps. Thanks.
I thinnk Swallow Whole can be found in Savage Species. You need to be huge sized, but that isn't too hard to do. Hidden tallent from Expanded Psionics could help.
O, I figured it out. I'm going to take the Gluttony Template (which allows him to initiate a grapple with a bite attack and swallow anything that's 2 size categories smaller than him) then I'm going to take the Gape of the Serpent feat which lets him swallow anything up to his size. I think that pretty much takes care of Gluttony lol
For Gluttony I recommend the Barghest's Feed ability.
Ok, now that Gluttony is done (he's a Monk 6/Drunken Master 5/Reaping Mauler 5). Can someone help me with feats for the other sins? They're all 16th level. Here's a layout of what their classes are and what their stats are (there stats are without magical items):
Lust: Mountebank (base class from Dragon Magazine Compendium) it's kind of a mix of a Socialite Rogue (it gets 6+int skill points and something similar to Sneak Attack) and it also gets a lot of spell-like abilities. I'm thinking about multi-classing that and Warlock. Str: 14, Dex: 18, Con: 14, Int: 18, Wis: 10, Cha: 20
Envy: Factotum, I'm pretty set in stone on this because it's more for kicks and giggles. Envy has 14's in every stat but, (s)he can change into whatever race (s)he wants to
Greed: Dragon Shaman (Red Dragon as the Totem Dragon), I'm pretty sure he'll have the Leadership Feats and some cohorts. Str: 12, Dex: 14, Con: 18, Int: 16, Wis: 16, Cha: 16
Wrath: Barbarian with the goliath variant from Races of Stone. I don't think I'm going to have her go in to Frenzied Berserker because she's strong enough as it is with that variant. It's like rage only she gets a +6 to strength during it. Str: 26, Dex: 12, Con: 16, Int: 10, Wis: 14, Cha: 14
Sloth: Wizard (Conjurer) his 3rd level feat is going to be Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms and he's really just going to summon things and shoot people. Str: 10, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int: 22, Wis: 12, Cha: 14
Pride: Paladin of Slaughter (from Unearthed Arcana) I might have him multi-class into Ranger and have him dual wield a gun and sword but, that's not a sure thing yet. Str: 18, Dex: 18, Con: 16, Int: 12, Wis: 14, Cha: 16
Thanks for all the help so far.
EDIT: Wow so I just realized Wrath gets a +8 to strength while raging. Also, where's Barghest's Feed?
The Barghest is a monster in core. I thought you were interested in mashing things up - it won't be easy to obtain in a standard build.
O, what book is it in? I can't decide what to give Gluttony for a "special ability." He can already swallow anything up to his medium size (because I gave him the Glutton Template and the Gape of the Serpent Feat) so as long as no one casts enlarge person he can eat everybody in the party.
It's in the MM1... but you can just follow the link in my post above.
Lol, I like that idea but, I'm not sure if that would be something good to give him because if he eats one of the characters the result could be disastrous (because there's only a 50% chance they'll be brought back). I also had a few more questions.
1) I'm the DM of the game and Gluttony is technically a Small Race but, the Race also has Powerful Build (which allows him to act as Medium in situations that it's advantageous to him, for instance he doesn't take a -4 on grapple) do you think it would be fair to allow him to swallow Medium characters since he's technically Small? The reason I ask is because the Gape of the Serpent or Snake or whatever that feat is called only allows a character to swallow something it's size or smaller. Originally I was just going to let it slide but, I'm not sure how the players will react. I don't think they'll care to much because it's 1 of the 7 Deadly Sins but, I'm not sure. If it's to unfair, I might make Gluttony's special ability the same as the Gluttony Domain so he can actually become medium (it says you increase in size catergory so many times per day or something like that).
2) Can someone help me with Envy? I'm now actually debating on 2 builds. The first is a Factotum 8/Chameleon 8 this build would let h(er/im) act as just about any class (s)he wanted to and would fit what I originally had planned for Envy. The second I'm not sure of the base class but, (s)he would go into Warshaper. This would allow h(er/im) to change shape as a move action (instead of a full-round action), get a +4 str and +4 con, and grow a natural weapon of h(er/is) choice or make an existing one a size larger. The second build would fit closer to the Envy from FMA but, the first would also bring lots of hilarity to the game. Any suggestions?
For 2)
Take the first one because warshaper doesn't fit in the Flavour of Factotum/Chameleon and Envy's story. Warshaper is only worth a dip for the Immunities and +4 STR and CON or a full progression when you focus on natural weapons.
I also think that Envy and Wrath should switch their names in FMA, because "Wrath" wants to steal everything from Edward and "Envy" is mostly controlled only by his anger.
Lol, I know what you mean. I also think Wrath's eye doesn't fit him very well. Someone else should've had that.
O! Also, speaking of Wrath I think I made the best possible build for her (because Wraths a woman in my game) she's a Barbarian 11/Frenzied Berserker 5 with these stats instead of the original ones I posted: Str: 26, Dex: 10, Con: 18, Int: 10, Wis: 14, Cha: 14. With her levels in Frenzied Berserker she gains +14 str while frenzying and can be reduced to -10HP and not die as long as she's still in a Frenzy. On top of this because her race has powerful build (which allows her to act as large) she can weild a large weapon.
So when I was looking at feats to give her because I had 2 additional feats left. I saw Improved Critical at first I thought it just added 1 to the range making a x2 crit a 19-20x2 but, I misread it whenever I saw it the last time because it says it doubles the range and it makes a 19-20x2 weapon a 17-20x2 weapons. Sooo... With the remaining 2 feats I gave Wrath Exotic Weapon Proficiency Great Horn Hammer (the hammer is in the Monster Manual 4 under Great Horn Minotaur) with it being Large it deals 3d6 damage on top of that the normal critical hit is 19-20x4 so I gave her Improved Critical with the Hammer making the crit range 17-20x4!!! I feel kind of bad for the Players but, all they really have to do is cast slay living or disintegrate on Wrath and she's done. She's kind of a Glass Cannon. Anyway I just thought I'd share that because I though 3d6 damage with a 17-20x4 critical was great.
Dante's Divine Comedy is probably my favorite book (and Inferno is also my favorite of the three).
Now, this is slightly off topic but there are many 'seven deadly sins' that have been described over the years. Dante had an entirely different set of sins then what's on the modern list. Dante wrote about stuff like simony, false-council, avarice, violence against self, and heresy. These aren't exactly light topics or easily translated into a fantasy setting...but I'll try:
Simony is an entirely ubiquitous sin in most fantasy settings - the sale of holy blessings can be found in any church across the land.
False council is also very common - bluff, forgery, and disguise are considered 'skills' in the d20 system 
Avarice is almost the same thing as greed except it has more to do with living excessively. For example: most hoarders aren't greedy but they do suffer from the sin of avarice.
Violence can be broken down into 3 categories: violence against self, violence against others, and violence against god. I'll skip violence against self for obvious reasons. The other two types ought to be easily translated into a fantasy setting.
For 2)
Take the first one because warshaper doesn't fit in the Flavour of Factotum/Chameleon and Envy's story. Warshaper is only worth a dip for the Immunities and +4 STR and CON or a full progression when you focus on natural weapons.
I also think that Envy and Wrath should switch their names in FMA, because "Wrath" wants to steal everything from Edward and "Envy" is mostly controlled only by his anger.
O, you may have misread what I said. If I made Envy go in to Warshaper (s)he wouldn't be a Factotum. I'd probably make h(er/im) a Druid or some other spell caster. Or heck maybe even a fighter. Also can you or someone help me pic feats for the Factotum/Chameleon? Well other than Able Learner. I've never played a Factotum so I don't have any idea what feats (s)he should have. I think I'm also going to rearrange her ability scores. I'm working with an 84 point buy out (except for Pride) none of the skills can exceed 18 without modifiers and none of them can be lower than 10 without modifiers. I know as a Factotum (s)he needs a high Int and I'm also trying to get h(er/im) a high Cha and then a decent Dex or even just decent scores in everything else. All help will be greatly appretiated.
As far as the sins from Dante's Inferno, I know they were different, I just did them as the modern ones because most of my players will know those.
Some help making Envy, Sloth, and Pride would be greatly appretiated. I've never played a Factotum before and I rarely play spell casters (I've never played a Wizard as a matter of fact). I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Factotum/Chameleon build for Envy, I might make it Factotum 9/Chameleon 7 instead because the 8th Level Chameleon ability doesn't do much for Envy as a NPC. Sloth I want to be some sort of Summoner, I was originally thinking about a Wizard (Conjurer) but, it can really be anything that relies heavily on Summoning. I was thinking about making him a Death Master (it's an NPC class and I've got the Player Class version in the Dragon Magazine Compendium). I kind of want Pride to be a Paladin of Slaughter but, I'm not sure. I kind of want him to go in to a Prestige Class but, I can't think of any, Black Gaurd is pretty much the same class with a few variations. I was thinking about having him dual weild a Gun and Sword or something and then have him go in to Tempest.
Envy ... can change into whatever race (s)he wants to
Holy wtf, for real? That's gotta be the most OP ability I've ever seen. "I turn into a black Ethergaunt and gain 20 ECL and casting as a level (crap, I can't remember... is it 16 or 20?) wizard. Neener neener neeeeneerrr..." Balor one moment, Solar the next, then gets bored and becomes an ancient Celestial Gold Wyrm. Environments don't matter when you can turn into the most powerful type of native, and because many high ECL races come with SLAs and/or casting as class X level Y, you'll always have the right ability at hand. Invincible, for all practical purposes... "Aw, you were about to kill me, but I turned into something extraplanar and reformed on my home plane instead." Who needs classes with an ability like that?
Oh, and stats are cheesed too... let's see, instead of starting at 8 or 10 like normal things, I start at 14 and then add my racials. "Door won't open. I'll just turn into, I dunno, the tarrasque or a fire elemental or some other random thing, go through/around it, and see what's next."
*walks away muttering in awe*
Envy ... can change into whatever race (s)he wants to
Holy wtf, for real? That's gotta be the most OP ability I've ever seen. "I turn into a black Ethergaunt and gain 20 ECL and casting as a level (crap, I can't remember... is it 16 or 20?) wizard. Neener neener neeeeneerrr..." Balor one moment, Solar the next, then gets bored and becomes an ancient Celestial Gold Wyrm. Environments don't matter when you can turn into the most powerful type of native, and because many high ECL races come with SLAs and/or casting as class X level Y, you'll always have the right ability at hand. Invincible, for all practical purposes... "Aw, you were about to kill me, but I turned into something extraplanar and reformed on my home plane instead." Who needs classes with an ability like that? Oh, and stats are cheesed too... let's see, instead of starting at 8 or 10 like normal things, I start at 14 and then add my racials. "Door won't open. I'll just turn into, I dunno, the tarrasque or a fire elemental or some other random thing, go through/around it, and see what's next." *walks away muttering in awe*
Ok, 1st off I'm going to refer to Envy as a guy in this reply because I'm tired of typing parenthesis (and people being ridiculous). Secondly, Envy can only change into player races, his shape changeing ability is similar to a Doppelgangers or a Changelings only he takes on the races ability modifiers and special abilities and attacks and all that junk. Lastly if you think the sins being able to have a 14 in all their stats is bad you should see my players. I said earlier in the thread they're all playing homebrewed races from my world, well. All my races have a +1 level adjustment but, they're playing as if they didn't, also while creating their characters they rolled 4d6 for each stat, they were able to reroll all 1s and the stat is the 3 highest dice. On top of this to be nice I decided they could all have an 18 for free. That being said, I have 2 players that have an 18 in 2 stats and 1 player that has an 18 in 3 and I don't think anyone has an ability score lower than 12 (with racial modifiers applied).
EDIT: O! I forgot to mention the person that rolled 3, 18's actually has a 20 a 24 and an 18
If you believe the guys from the Factotum handbook, Font of Inspiration is the best feat for a factotum, because it grants additional Inspiration points.
Play a Factotum, especially this one, as versatile as possible. At 8th level, you already have Cunning Surge, which is one of the best abilities for spellcasting. Choose feats which have different uses for different characters.
Do you know what book Font of Inspiration is in? I think that's a good idea lol, I didn't really think about it like that. Maybe some Metamagic feats, a weapon focus, and maybe a random other one
You can find it over here.
The Bonusfeats of the chameleon can be changed every day, so don't mind them too much and if Envy encounters the PCs, choose the feat that hits them most.
For other feats, try to choose something that gives benifits in situations that would most likely occur or things that allow you to use your INT in place or addition of other Attributes, like Insightful Reflexes from Complete Adventure.
Haha, I should be a douche to my players and give Envy 2 flaws and take Font of Inspiration at every level she could gain a feat :P that would probably actually suck though in the end.
Ok, 1st off I'm going to refer to Envy as a guy in this reply because I'm tired of typing parenthesis (and people being ridiculous). Secondly, Envy can only change into player races, his shape changeing ability is similar to a Doppelgangers or a Changelings only he takes on the races ability modifiers and special abilities and attacks and all that junk. Lastly if you think the sins being able to have a 14 in all their stats is bad you should see my players. I said earlier in the thread they're all playing homebrewed races from my world, well. All my races have a +1 level adjustment but, they're playing as if they didn't, also while creating their characters they rolled 4d6 for each stat, they were able to reroll all 1s and the stat is the 3 highest dice. On top of this to be nice I decided they could all have an 18 for free. That being said, I have 2 players that have an 18 in 2 stats and 1 player that has an 18 in 3 and I don't think anyone has an ability score lower than 12 (with racial modifiers applied).
EDIT: O! I forgot to mention the person that rolled 3, 18's actually has a 20 a 24 and an 18
Ahkay, the restrictions make it more reasonable. And I don't think 14s all around is high powered... the PCs in my game usually get a 32-38 point buy. It would just be high-powered if you got to add whatever racial bonuses you liked to it. Sorry, poorly phrased.
The game is meant to be high powered just so my PC's can act like "BA's" (as one of the characters would put it). Did you look at Wraths stats though? She has a 26 str at the moment and I haven't given her any magical items yet not to mention she's a Frenzied Berserker. She get's +14 to str while Frenzying (+4 from Rage, +2 from greater rage, +2 from the homebrewed variant barbarian [which is exactly the same as the Goliaths variant Barbarian], +6 from frenzy) on top of this she's weilding a weapon with a 17-20x4 critical that deals 3d6 damage.
I know you already had it, but this would be my take on gluttony.
Elan Half Illithid Psychic Warrior 7/Illithid Savant 10
Feats: Extend Reach, Ability Focus (mindblast), Psionic Fist, Unavoidable Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Initiative, Improved Grapple, Initiate (for knowledge arcana), +2 others.
The more he eats, the more powerful he gets! Use the handy psychic warrior abilities like expansion, grip of iron, metaphysical claw, offensive precognition, strength of my enemy, etc... to boost your grappling.
Envy? Changeling Factotum 20: Can mimic anyone and take their place.
Wrath? Barbarian 10/Frenzied Berzerker all the way. I'll have to think on some of the others.
I know you already had it, but this would be my take on gluttony.
Elan Half Illithid Psychic Warrior 7/Illithid Savant 10
Feats: Extend Reach, Ability Focus (mindblast), Psionic Fist, Unavoidable Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Initiative, Improved Grapple, Initiate (for knowledge arcana), +2 others.
The more he eats, the more powerful he gets! Use the handy psychic warrior abilities like expansion, grip of iron, metaphysical claw, offensive precognition, strength of my enemy, etc... to boost your grappling.
Envy? Changeling Factotum 20: Can mimic anyone and take their place.
Wrath? Barbarian 10/Frenzied Berzerker all the way. I'll have to think on some of the others.
Ya lol, Envy is pretty much a Changeling Factotum and Wrath is a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker. The only problem with posting this in the forums is that the game I'm running is in a custom (or homebrewed, whatever you want to call it) world with all custom races which kind of makes it hard for suggestions because no one knows the races. I would post them but, I don't want Wizards to be like O! some custom races and a world we can take because it's not copywrited :P
Can somebody help me with Pride? I've decided he's not going to dual weild a gun and sword. He's not going to use any guns and I'm not sure if he's going to use magic yet either. I want him to take PRIDE (sorry I had to over emphasize that) in "the old ways" of fighting (because my game is renaissance-ish/early steam punk). I'm thinking about a Paladin of Slaughter with the paladin variant from Complete Champion (the one that gives you bonus feats instead of spell casting). But, any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
Isn't that variant paladin better in almost every way compared to a fighter? You have class features and extra feats. I guess this isn't really constructive, just thought I say that.
Isn't that variant paladin better in almost every way compared to a fighter? You have class features and extra feats. I guess this isn't really constructive, just thought I say that.
Yes, unless you're playing Pathfinder. In which case if you can use this variant it would still probably be better.
it may seem like cheating, but I made a few of my Sins as gestalt characters. It was my way of giving them an extra edge. The only real benefit is extra class abilities, which is great, but most can't be used simultaneously.
With that said, I made wrath go Barbarian 1/Crusader 15/Frenzied Berserker 10/Fighter 7/Warblade 1 Which results in a lvl 17 character with a bunch of maneuvers and the ability to rage. I used Goliath for his race for the powerful build.
In my campaign, the Sins were all once people who lived their lives committing their sins and were punished in the afterlife for it. However, some sly and conniving deities decided to use these people to their advantage and offered them each a deal. They get to return to the material realm in exchange for a few "services". Upon agreeing, each was granted new power and longer life. Many of them were changed into exaggerated forms of their former selves. (Lust became a Nymph, Envy a changeling, wrath a Goliath, Greed a Half-golem[golden limbs], Gluttony a modified Famine Spirit, and Pride and sloth inherited the phantom templates with pride also gaining mineral warrior template as well)
edit: a couple lvls of fighter or of frenzied berserker could be dropped to make the build work at a lower level. It works based on aura of chaos and greater divine surge with a finisher of Iron heart surge. Drain all your con into the divine surge and then remove the penalty with iron heart surge
Not to sound rude but, I've got all the Sins done except Envy, Sloth, and Pride. All the sins in my game are homebrewed races that are also player races (except Envy she's an advanced Changeling kind of thing to help suit her). I'm really just trying to get builds for Sloth and Pride.
Right now I've got Sloth as a specialist Conjurer Wizard with Point Blank Shot, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms), Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and some metamagic/spell mastery feats. I'm debating on whether or not to make him a Dread Necromancer instead and giving him Firearms as the Dread Necromancers "martial weapon." Or wheter I should just stick with what I have.
For Pride I'm still thinking. I was thinking maybe a Paladin of Slaughter (only using the Paladin Variant from Complete Champion that doesn't get spells)/Crusader with Power Attack, Extra Smiting, Awesome Smite, then maybe Cleave and some other random feats. I'm still not sure on this though if someone could post a build (classes only I have a race) that would help a lot.
Here's what the other sins are (levels and feats, I have yet to buy any items)
Lust: Mountebank (base class from Dragon Magazine Compedium) 10/Duelist 5/Battle Dancer 1 (base class from Dragon Magazine Compedium). Feats: Seductive: Men (1st Level Feat, out of Book of Erotic Fantasy, gives a +2 on all Cha based checks against men), Seductive: Women (Flaw, same deal as the other one but, for women), Weapon Finesse (3rd Level Feat), Dodge (6th Level Feat), Mobility (9th Level Feat), Combat Expertise (12th Level Feat), Improved Feint (15th Level Feat). This build gives her a pretty good AC, she can add her whole Intelligence bonus (Duelist) and Charisma bonus (Battle Dancer) as well as using Combat Expertise and Dodge. She gets something similar to Sneak Attack +3d6 and another +1d6 from the Duelists Piercing Strike. She's going to use a Rapier and she won't be wearing armor (she still has a 20 something AC). She can also teleport herself up to 165ft. 10 times per day.
Gluttony: Monk 6/Drunken Master 5/Reaping Mauler 5. Feats: Stunning Fist (Monk bonus feat), Improved Unarmed Strike (from the Monk), Clever Wrestling (1st Level Feat, gives him a bonus when grappling with larger creatures), Deflect Arrows (Monk Bonus Feat), Dodge (3rd Level Feat), Improved Disarm (Monk Bonus Feat), Great Fortitude (6th Level Feat, really just because it's a prerequisite for Drunken Master), Gape of the Serpent (9th Level Feat, allows him to eat anything up to his size category), Improved Grapple (Reaping Mauler Bonus Feat), Mobility (Reaping Mauler Bonus Feat), Improved Natural Attack (12th Level Feat), Throw Anything (15th Level Feat, this was just a funny idea to go with his Drunken Master abilities). On top of being able to use anything as a melee or thrown weapon he has the Glutton Template (which gives him swallow whole along with other abilities) so he can eat anything up to medium size and he adds Wis to AC with some other AC bonuses (from Monk and Drunken Master).
Envy: Factotum 8/Chameleon 8. Feats: Able Learner (1st Level Feat, this is really just to get in to Chameleon), Font of Inspiration (3rd Level Feat, extra Inspiriation point), then I don't have any other feats yet because I don't really know what to take.
Greed: Dragon Shaman 16 (Red Totem Dragon). Feats: Dragon Touched (1st Level Feat), Dragon Wings (Flaw, you'll see the reason behind this later), Skill Focus: Appraise (from Dragon Shaman), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms (3rd Level Feat), Leadership (6th Level Feat), Skill Focus: Bluff (from Dragon Shaman), Improved Dragon Wings (9th Level Feat), Entangling Exhalation (12th Level Feat), Exhaled Barrier (15th Level Feat), Skill Focus: Jump (from Dragon Shaman). Greed is really just going to fly around and have his Cohorts fight the PC's while he uses his breath weapon/the feats that go with it and while he's waiting to use it again he'll shoot at them with his gun.
Wrath: Barbarian 11/Frenzied Berserker 5. Feats: Power Attack (1st Level Feat), Cleave (3rd Level Feat), Destructive Rage (6th Level Feat), Intimidating Rage (9th Level Feat), Diehard (from Frenzied Berserker), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Great Horn Hammer (12th Level Feat), Improved Critical: Great Horn Hammer (15th Level Feat). Wrath is really just meant to be a Glass Cannon, her hammer has a 17-20x4 critical and when she's in a Frenzy her Strength is 40 (as for now with no magical items).
And that's what I have for now.
With Pride, you first have to decide what he's proud of. Honestly, since he embodies the sin itself, he should be proud of everything that relates to himself. Easy. What does that mean in D&D terms though?
I would try and optimize his attack and AC. More the AC than the attack, since you don't want him to seem to much like Wrath. Make him a combat expert of some sort and work in as much AC optimization
Well, I disagree with Blacklitelust...
Sloth seems more like a Enchanter because, well, think of an lazy ruler... Would he be someone who summons servants for a (most often) short duration or would he want to make everyone his servant, so he never really has to do anything?
Also, for Pride i would not fokus on the cause of the Pride. I would make Pride use deception to feign all of the abilities he isn't good at.
Abilities are comparative to the person who judges them, so a Commoner would bow in awe before a 3rd level paladin, whereas a 10th level fighter would not. Give Pride abilities that ensure he stays the best (or at least seem like the best) like Bestow Curse or other weakening abilities. Even when the PCs are way mightier than him, casting Bestow Curse on the cleric and giving him a 50% chance to do nothing is always nice. For better Bestow Curse options, look into the Book of Vile Darkness
I dunno, I mean, it seems to me that "faking it" is more of an Envious thing...
I can't tell you what to do or who to listen to, but I think a character with OUTRAGEOUS AC, the PRIDE domain, and the Pearl of Black Doubt stance would really mess with your players. I had a level 16 build that had Pride at 50 AC with a Touch of 37. He gets a +2 bonus if he goes feral and +2 to AC until his next turn each time someone misses him (Pearl of Black Doubt). He jumped through several classes (showing his talents in many different combat styles.) and the result was a movement speed of 60. I really like how he turned out. My players were aware of my Sins and liked the task of guessing which ones they were fighting. They knew right away when they were fighting Pride.
"We can't hit this guy!" "Damn, he hits pretty hard and he isn't even rolling very high!" "Wow, this has got to be Pride." Was the general conversation that occured after about 4 rounds...
Edit: Oh, and it's lvl16 because I gave him the Mineral Warrior template, so he's actually only a lvl 15 build.
I could do this if I wanted Pride to have optimized AC and a decent damage output:
1: Swashbuckler: Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Broad Blade Short Sword (1st Level Feat), Combat Expertise (Flaw 1), Lunatic Insight (Flaw 2, from Hero’s of Horror, gives all the Knowledge Skills as class skills)
2: Swashbuckler: Grace +1
3: Swashbuckler: Insightful Strike, Two Weapon Fighting
4: Chaos Monk (Dragon Magazine #335 page 88): Unarmed Strike (like Monks), AC Bonus (add Wis to AC), Improved Grapple (Monk Bonus Feat), Flailing Strike (1d4-1 extra attacks, all attacks take -2)
5: Battle Dancer (Dragon Magazine Compendium page 26): Unarmed Strike (again), AC Bonus (add Cha to AC)
6: Warblade, Scout, or Barbarian: Class Ability, Two Weapon Defense
7: Warblade, Scout or Barbarian: Uncanny Dodge
8: Fighter: Great Fortitude (Fighter Feat)
9: Fighter: Power Attack (Fighter Feat), Dodge (9th Level Feat)
10: Fist of the Forest: AC Bonus (add Con to AC), Fast Movement, Feral Trance 1/day, Primal Living
11: Fighter: ---
12: Fighter: Mobility (Fighter Feat), Improved 2 Weapon Defense (12th Level Feat)
13: Duelist: Canny Defense (add 1 point of Int mod per Duelist Level to AC)
14: Duelist: Improved Reaction
15: Duelist: Precise Strike +1d6, Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion, gets extra damage based on Knowledge Checks)
16: Another Duelist Level?
This build would let him add Int and Str to damage then I could max out his Knowledge Skills that include humanoid races for extra d6's on damage (from Knowledge Devotion). Make him take a -2 on every attack for a +4 AC (2 from combat expertise 1 from each BB Short Sword), he adds all his ability modifiers to AC he has Uncanny Dodge and possibly a few manuevers if he goes Warblade (which he probably would), if he looses a sword somehow he can still do decent damage with an Unarmed Strike. O, he also get's a +1 AC against one opponent from Dodge and he get's +4 when moving into/through threanted squares from Mobility.
Now I'm not actually going to make Pride that I just wanted to post that build again because I thought it was funny. I kind of want him to be wearing Full Plate because all of the other sins will be wearing light or no armor (except Wrath, she might wear medium armor). I'm thinking he will be proud that he doesn't use modern technology (guns and such) or magic. I might make him a Crusader/Paladin of Slaughter and have him use a Bastard Sword and a Shield or a Flail and a Shield. O, I forgot to mention that he's riding in to battle on a black griffon.
See, my take on Pride was a man who fought, defended, and relied upon only his own strength. I made him entirely unarmored. Yes, he had magical items which improved upon his strengths, but the root of his power was his own. Without items, his AC would still be around 35. The items i used increased his stats and gave him +6 Armor. My pride uses unarmed strikes, grapples, trips, and throws. He kinda resembles Armstrong from FMA in his attitude and demeanor.
To be honest I disagree with both of you on what Sloth should be. In my own opinion Sloth would be slow witted and have a low intelligence. That being said, if I want him to be a Wizard he can't have a low Intelligence. I think Gluttony and Sloth would actually get along really well, Gluttony sits around and eats and Sloth just sits around. I honestly think Gluttony and Sloth could be combined to make an extremely lazy glutton that is only motivated by food but, I can't really do that if I want all 7 sins involved.
As far as enchantments and illusions go, I think that's more suited to Lust, I was actually thinking about making her a Beguiler/Mountebank (the prestige class from Complete Scoundrel not the one I'm currently using)/Assassin and having her manipulate everyone then death attack one of the PC's after sleeping with them.
I think I'm going to stick with the Conjurer route for Sloth though because I can't just make him a 16th level weresheep/chicken infested commoner/master thrower with throw anything and exotic weapon proficiency: chicken (even though that would be extremely amusing).
As far as Pride goes, since the game is set in a Renaissance era I kind of want him to be the Knight that can't accept modern technology. Maybe I should make him a Samurai/Iaijutsu Master and name him Tom Cruise (because Pride isn't going to be the oriental race from my game).
Lol, IDEA! Sloth and Gluttony can be Siamese twins!!!
Lol as funny as that would be I'm trying to introduce them in order.
Well, this Idea might be useful.
You said, they all have a "Mother" so why can't Sloth and Gluttony be twins?
If the PCs finally get to fight them, they might work together or even combine into one person....
Maybe you make sloth use a different Spell Attribute and only give him very, very few spells. These spells should be much more powerful then so he seldom casts any but could do so with great Power.
Perhaps for a different tack on Sloth, you could expand its focus. Originally, sloth was known as acedia, which could include entropy, despair, and depression as well as laziness or apathy.
Wikipedia link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins#...
Going off of this theme, a good build might be a Dread Necromancer/Dread Witch build focusing on fear and despair powers. It would still have the flavor of an apathetic creature that has others do most of the work for it (using undead summons), but also has a variety of powerful fear effects that send others into despair.
I was actually thinking about making Sloth a Dread Necromancer. I might look in to that. I'll have to figure out something so he can have a gun instead of a martial weapon though, I think Sloth sitting in a chair shooting people while legions of undead attack the PC's would be funny. Then when a PC actually gets close enough they have to make a will save or become shaken.
Sloth should be a thrallherd. He doesn't have to do anything, and just gets his minions to work.
Sloth should be a thrallherd. He doesn't have to do anything, and just gets his minions to work.
Any idea of a base class? Or class progression for a Thrallherd? Should I just have him go Psion to Thrallherd?
I can't think of any reason off hand not to go straight Telepath to Thrallherd. He even gets Psionic Charm at first level, so he's able to function as a lazy jerk for his whole career.
You think Telepath 6/Thrallhert 10 is fine? Or should I have him invest a level into a random class?
I can't think of any reason off hand not to go straight Telepath to Thrallherd. He even gets Psionic Charm at first level, so he's able to function as a lazy jerk for his whole career.
A kalashtar psion can qualify for thrallherd, regardless of discipline. And a reason not to be a Telepath is that you get all the good telepath spells from Thrallherd, anyway. Better to pick another discipline with powers you really want.
I'd suggest making him a Seer, so not only does he not have to do anything, he also can just look into the future or scry on people to figure out where to send his thralls to do/get whatever he wants, without having to actually go anywhere, either.
I have a Thrallherd character in a game that is also permanently possessing an airship via the Haunt Shift spell... if you want to see it, here is a link: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...
I can't make him a Kalashtar because the games in a hombrewed world. Would he have to take Wild Talent to be able to be a Psion at 1st level? I didn't make any Psionic races because I wasn't thinking.
Would he have to take Wild Talent to be able to be a Psion at 1st level? I didn't make any Psionic races because I wasn't thinking.
No... Do you have to take Magical Training to be a wizard?
I can't make him a Kalashtar because the games in a hombrewed world.
Didn't you make the world? Can't you add more stuff to it as you wish?
Yes I could add more things to the world but, all the races are home brewed (which is posted quite a few times through out this thread yet people keep suggesting races from different books). The reason I asked about Wild Talent is because I don't use Psionics that much so I wasn't sure if you had to have power points (or whatever they're called) to go into a Psionic Class.
No, you don't have to take Wild Talent to take a psionic class. Wild Talent is a feat that exists so that you can qualify as psionic without having to take a psionic class. This is for qualifying for psionic feats and such.
Thank you for explaining that because I've never understood it. As for Sloth I'm debating on a Kineticist or a Telepath, the Telepath gets skills that I think would be good for Sloth (Diplomacy [which doen't really work on PC's], Bluff, Gather Info, and Sense Motive) but the down side is gaining powers he would gain as a Thrallherd, although I could just choose other powers. The Kineticist on the other hand would be ok because Sloth could just blast people as his followers attack them (he'll have an army of followers by this point). I'm sure not all of the followers will be there (some will be gathering food or something) because I don't think the PC's (5 level 15 characters) could take on 135 first level characters, 13 second level characters, 7 third level characters, 4 fourth level characters, 2 fifth and 2 sixth plus a level 16 psion/thrallherd and his 2 thralls (probably 13th and 14th level).
I think I'm going to make Pride a Master of the Nine just to show he's "well versed in combat." I'm still kind of debating on the progression so if someone could help with that it would be greatly appreciated. I'm also debating between him using a Great Sword or going Sword and Board as his "specialty" (I'm sure he'll be carrying more than one weapon though).
I'm also debating on whether or not to make them 12th level instead of 16th because the game started at 3rd level and the PC's are about to become 8th level. If I make them 12th Lust and Gluttony will be introduced in 2 sessions but, if I make them 16th it will take a little longer. The reason I'm debating on 12 and 16 is because at 12th level the party will be about even on power. The party is a Barbarian who is the only surviving member/leader of his clan, a true neutral Cleric with the healing and balance domains who happens to be named Karl, a socialite Beguiler that likes to pretend she's a messanger of a god and then take donations, a Ranger using a variant I made for guns and also pretending he's Indiana Jones (he has the skill trick that lets you climb with a whip or something like that) and a crazy Artificer with a gun for a leg.
You should spread them out in levels, not make them all the same. That way the party can encounter them over time, instead of all at once.
Shapers and Seers also get decent skills. (No diplomacy, but as you said that doesn't work on PCs.)
You should spread them out in levels, not make them all the same. That way the party can encounter them over time, instead of all at once.
Shapers and Seers also get decent skills. (No diplomacy, but as you said that doesn't work on PCs.)
Ya, I'm not sure why I was making them all the same level now that you mention it. I think I'm going to have to rework Lust for a 12th level build. I'm thinking about a Beguiler/Mountebank (the one from Complete Scoundrel). I already know how to work out Gluttony (just take out some levels of Drunken Master). Envy and Greed are the same way, I just take some Chameleon out for Envy and some Dragon Shaman goes away for Greed. Wrath and Sloth will probably be 15th level and Pride 16th.
have you considered using the book of erotic fantasies for lust? there are a few feats and classes in there that may aid you.
I have a pdf of it but, I've only looked in it a little. I gave her the Seduction Feat twice so she gets a +2 on Cha checks against men and women. Other than that I didn't really look into it that much. O! For Pride does anyone have any suggestions on wheter I should go Swordsage/Master of Nine or Warblade/Crusader/Master of Nine or a completely different strategy in general? I've never made a Master of Nine. Swordsage seems to be the easiest way to do it because they can get manuevers from 6 different diciplines meeting the Prerequisite but, the Warblade gets Iron Heart manuevers and Uncanny Dodge (which I would really like Pride to have) and the Crusader gets Devoted Spirit manuevers. Suggestions?
I recommend going Swordsage no matter what, but you could splash warblade or crusader in there for different maneuvers and class abilities. Warblade works best for flavor. Swordsage gets the higher AC bonus as long as you are wearing light armor, couple that with Pearl of Black Doubt and you've got a guy who can use any weapon, has wonderful AC and thinks he's the best fighter around and is willing to prove it.
I think I might have him splash into all three classes for Wis to AC, Uncanny Dodge, then some smiting. I'm still not sure about Swordsage though because for some reason I want Pride in medium or heavy armor and if I do that Wis to AC is useless. I guess he could just wear a mithril shirt though and carry a greatsword along with various other weapons incase someone dies and decides to make a disarming or sundering character.
EDIT: ok so this is what I'm thinking for Pride so far:
Swordsage (unarmed variant) 2/Crusader 2/Warblade 6/Master of Nine 5. Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (Swordsage variant Bonus), Adaptive Style (1st, I'm not sure if this has to be a 1st level feat or if you have to take it at your 1st level of Swordsage, Warblade, or Crusader), Superior Unarmed Strike (Flaw, just to be safe against disarm attempts), Weapon Focus (from Swordsage for certain disipline weapons), Blind-Fight (3rd), Dodge (6th), Improved Initiative (9th), then I'm not really sure what to do for 12th and 15th or his Warblade Bonus Feat.
Then for the new Lust I've got this:
Human, Beguiler 5/Assassin 2/Invisible Blade 5. Feats: Seductive: Men (1st, from Book of Erotic Fantasy), Seductive: Women (Human), Point Blank Shot (Flaw 1), Rapscallion (Flaw 2, its from Dragon it lets you add Int to bluff which will help with Feinting) Far Shot (3rd), Weapon Focus: Dagger (6th), Weapon Finesse (9th), Two Weapon Fighting (12th)
Consider, if you will, using a combination of weapons that I gave to my Lust build. Both are returning daggers, however, one is impaling and paralyzing while the other is keen and pleasurable. The result is a combination of weapons that will knock the enemy unconscious, paralyze them, and/or leave them spent.
Where are the enhancements you used? I'm pretty sure pleasurable is in the Book of Erotic Fantasy. I think Paralyzing and Returning are in the DMG or Magic Item Compendium.
EDIT: Now that I think about it I could have Lust just have 10 levels of the Mountebank base class then take a level of Battle Dancer for Cha to AC and then a level of Monk and take Kung Fu Genius as her 12th level feat for Intelligence to AC too. Then I'd have to figure out what to take instead of Point Blank Shot and Far Shot because the Mountebanks Deceptive Attack only works in melee.
all of the enhancements can be found in the magic item compendium except for pleasurable. For kicks I also made the daggers adamantine, but that isn't really necessary because I have Lust attack the players right after sex... lol
I don't think my players are going to have sex with Lust it's going to be more of her flirting with some of them and tricking the women. I think I might go with the Mountebank/Battle Dancer/Monk build for a higher AC on top of being able to teleport herself 65ft. 10/day as an immediate action. I'll get rid of Point Blank Shot and Far Shot and give her TWF earlier and perhaps Improved TWF or some other feat.
I've got Sloth figured out, he's a Telepath 5/Thrallherd 9 with these feats: Inquisitor (1st), Psicrystal Affinity (Psion Bonus, the liar Psicrystal), Improved Psicrystal (3rd, add the bully personality), Psionic Meditation (Psion Bonus), Combat Manifestation (6th), Improved Psicrystal (9th, add the sympathetic personality), Delay Power (12th). I have a feeling Sloth is going to be the hardest of the sins to defeat, he has 163 followers (or believers as they're known as to Thrallherds) to dispose of, now granted 135 of them are 1st level but, that's still a lot of random people they have to slaughter and on top of 163 believers he has a 10th or 11th level Thrall (I'm not going to make it 13th level even though it could, that'd just mean).
NOT HAVE SEX WITH LUST!?!?!?!?!
What's the use of her then? lol
I like your idea for sloth, one idea is to make them ALL commoners and organize them into a Mob, which I believe is in DMGII, although I may be wrong.
Commoners aren't generally level 1 though are they? And I'm not sure what level 1 commoners get, I think it's a feat and some random stuff. I think I'm going to make Pride either go (unarmed) Swordsage/Warblade or Crusader/Warblade relying more heavily on Warblade in both builds and then going into Master of Nine. The main reason I'm cutting out one of the classes is because then he starts becoming to dependant on to many abilities or attributes (whatever you want to call them).
Do you think allowing Kung Fu Genius to work with a Unarmed Swordsage would be to overpowered or unfair? I know I'm the DM but, I don't want to do something outrageous. That would make the build a lot easier to work with though. I'm working on making Pride rely heavily on Intelligence. I'm going to give him Lunatic Insight from Hero's of Horror, to get him all the Knowledge Skills as class skills and a +2 on initiative and saves against mind affecting spells and abilities then have him take Knowledge Devotion from Complete Champion, to gain a boost to his attack and damage rolls after making a Knowledge check based on creature type.
EDIT: If I do allow Kung Fu Genious to work I think the build would be something like this. Swordsage 4/Warblade 6/Master of Nine 5. Feats: Kung Fu Genious (1st), Improved Unarmed Strike (Swordsage Bonus), Weaon Focus: discipline weapons (Swordsage Bonus), Adaptive Style (Flaw 1), Lunatic Insight (Flaw 2), Dodge (3rd), Blind-Fight (Warblade Bonus), Improved Initiative (6th), Knowledge Devotion (9th) and then I have 2 feats left because I don't know what else to give him. With this build he adds Int to AC, damage on strikes from his chosen discipline, Reflex Saves, and confirmation rolls for critical hits. He also rolls Knowledge checks (depending on the characters type) to get up to +5 on attack rolls and damage. However many maneuvers from different disciplines he's readied he also adds that to damage, he retains Dex to AC when flat-footed plus he can't be flanked and he has a +7 on initiative without his dex. His new stats are as follows. Str: 18 (+2 from race, +2 from levels), Dex: 18 (+2 from race, +2 from levels), Con: 14, Int: 18, Wis: 12, Cha: 12
I was thinking about making him a Swordsage2/Swashbuckler 3/Warblade5/Master of Nine 5 but, then he'd loose Improved Uncanny Dodge which I really want him to have. Plus I don't really see Pride using Weapon Finesse.
EDIT: Ok so I'm done with all the class progressions of the sins (except possibly Lust if someone has a better idea). Thanks to everyone for ideas for the characters (especially BlackLiteLust and the person that suggested using a Thrallherd for Sloth). As of now here's there progressions, I'm missing feats for some levels so suggestions would help. All the stats are before magic items.
Lust: Mountebank 12 (it's a base class from the Dragon Magazine Compendium). Stats: Str: 12, Dex: 18, Con: 12, Int: 18, Wis: 10, Cha: 20 Feats: Seductive: Men (1st, +2 on charisma based checks against men), Seductive: Women (Human, same thing for women), Rapscallion (Flaw 1, add intelligence to bluff), Two Weapon Fighting (Flaw 2), Weapon Finesse (3rd), Two Weapon Defense (6th, I know Improved Buckler Defense is better but, Mountebanks don't have proficiency with shields), Improved Two Weapon Fighting (9th), Improved Two Weapon Defense (12th). Now this isn't exactly what I'd planned for Lust but, I can't think of anything better for a 12th level build.
Gluttony: Monk 6/Reaping Mauler 5/Drunken Master 1. Stats: Str: 18, Dex: 16, Con: 16, Int: 12, Wis: 18, Cha: 10 Feats: Clever Wrestling (1st Level Feat), Stunning Fist (Monk Bonus), Great Fortitude (Flaw), Dodge (3rd), Gape of the Serpent (6th, allows him to swallow anything up to his size category), Throw Anything (9th, really just for kicks to go with Drunken Master), Improved Natural Attack (12th). Special: Glutton Template
Envy: Factotum 8/Chameleon 4 (I'm debating on whether to do this or just go straight Factotum). Stats: Str: 12, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int: 18, Wis: 14, Cha: 16 Feats: Able Learner (1st), Font of Inspiration (3rd), then I'm not sure from here because I've never done a build like this before.
Greed: (Red) Dragon Shaman 13. Stats: Str: 12, Dex: 14, Con: 18, Int: 16, Wis: 16, Cha: 16 Feats: Dragon Touched (1st), Dragon Wings (Flaw), Skill Focus: Bluff (Dragon Shaman Bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms (3rd), Leadership (6th), Skill Focus: Jump (Dragon Shaman Bonus), Improved Dragon Wings (9th), Entangling Exhalation (12th)
Wrath: Barbarian 8/Frenzied Berserker 5. Stats: Str: 24, Dex: 10, Con: 18, Int: 10, Wis: 14, Cha: 14 Feats: Power Attack (1st), Destructive Rage (Flaw), Cleave (3rd), Intimidating Rage (6th), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Great Horn Hammer (9th), Improved Critical applied to the Great Horn Hammer (12th). Special: Wrath has a variant similar to the Goliath. When she rages she becomes large giving her a -1 AC and -1 on attack rolls but, her space increases to 10ft. she gains a +2 str and a 10ft. reach.
Sloth: Psion (Telepath) 5/Thrallherd 9. Stats: Str: 10, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Int: 22, Wis: 13, Cha: 15. Feats: Psicrystal Affinatiy (1st, Liar personality), Inquisitor (Psion Bonus), Improved Psicrystal (3rd, gain the bully personality), Psionic Meditation(Psion Bonus), Combat Manifestation (6th), Improved Psicrystal (9th, gain the sympathetic personality), Delay Power (12th)
Pride: (Unarmed) Swordsage 4/Warblade 6/Master of Nine 5. Stats: Str: 18, Dex: 18, Con: 14, Int: 18, Wis: 12, Cha: 12 Feats: Kung Fu Genious (1st, applies to Swordsage abilities and if he were to take Monk it would apply to those also), Improved Unarmed Strike (Swordsage Variant), Weapon Focus with Stone Dragon Weapons (Swordsage), Adaptive Style (Flaw 1), Lunatic Insight (Flaw 2), Dodge (3rd), Improved Initiative (6th), Blind-Fight (Warblade Bonus), Knowledge Devotion (9th), then I still need 2 more feats for him.
Have you considered using the Feral template (savage species pg. 115) for Wrath? Improved grab, Pounce, rend, rake, all on a guy who already wants to murder everyone? PERFECT!
Commoner was the worst idea ever for an NPC class. Just give them a Humanoid hit die.
commoner 1 with the mercantile background feat. spend your money on cows, skill points on handle animal. train the cows to trample as a group on command. You can just run people over without having to roll! It's a great idea! lol, I can't remember exactly where I read that, character idea, but it wasn't my original idea, fyi.
Commoner 1 with the chicken infested flaw. You have a 50% chanceof a chicken appearing whenever you take something out of a backpack, unsheath a weapon, etc. The prereq is that you have to be a commoner. Example: "We need some food... Hey Jim (your follower who happens to be a commoner) take some rocks out of your backpack... O a rock... Put it back in and try again... Hey a chicken!" This also makes for great fun in the game. I played a dread pirate once and we always joked about me having a cabin boy named Flapjack with the flaw and I threw him a grapefruit sized gem once and he caught it in his hat and it turned into a chicken.
Anyway, I'm looking at the feral template the only thing is the level adjustment gained from it. I could just let Wrath be 14th level I guess. They don't grow a size category right? They just get a d10 hit die for their template level right? (sorry I don't normally work with templates). Another thing about the template is with the additional changes she would have these stats instead. Str: 28, Dex: 8, Con: 20, Int: 6, Wis: 16, Cha: 14. Now I could sacrafice some Charisma and Constitution for a slightly better Dexterity. I'd probably take 2 Con and 2 Cha and add it to Dex because when she rages/frenzies she's already taking a -3 AC (2 from the normal rage and 1 from the variant). Although she would gain the +6 natural armor and Deathless Frenzy kind of prevents her from dying while frenzying unless someone casts slay living or something similar. I'm hoping no one decides to play a Exalted Monk because Wrath's Will Save isn't great and Calm Emotions could ruin her lol.
For Lust I think I am going to use the Keen Pleasurable Dagger and then make the other one similar to the paralyzing one but, I might change it just a little bit. You can activate 2 enchantments that take a swift action with a move action right? I think I'm going to make her 2nd dagger only have one enchantment so she can hit someone then teleport away or teleport in then hit someone. I'm also thinking about changing Lust to a Bard/Evangelist because that would make her pretty interesting. I mean the diplomacy things wouldn't help but, the ability to change the parties alignment would be pretty interesting.
I'm trying to figure out what to do with Sloths Thrall. I'm thinking a big brute but, I don't want it to be too similar to Wrath. Since I'm making Sloth a woman I'm thinking about making her believers (followers) amazons. She's going to be carried around by 4 of them on a chair thing and use her powers on the PC's while they fight off her army of level 1-6 characters which will probably consist of a bunch of fighters then a few random classes like a rogue or a barbarian.
I still have no idea what to do with Prides last 2 feats, is Weapon Specialization worth the feat? I don't even know if 6 Warblade levels qualify him for it. I guess I could give him Combat Expertise and have him take a -2 on all of his attacks (for +2 AC) because he's going to be gaining a bonus on attack and damage from Knowledge Devotion. I guess I could also give him Travel Devotion so he could move 30ft. as a swift action, that's only once/day though and he'll probably at least have Shadow Jaunt if not a better version of it.
Thanks for all the ideas. Sorry I keep adding super long messages. I'm trying to get everything in one post so I don't have to keep editing a past one or post twice in a row.
It looks like you are well on your way with these sins.
My advice for wrath is not to worry about his AC as much, since he is really just out to do as much damage as possible. I don't know how your temper is, but I have a really bad one. When I get mad, I don't care what happens to me, as long as I get to hurt someone. That's Wrath.
Combat Expertise is a good way to go, I'm using that along with Knowledge devotion with my Pride already. Just wondering, did you toss in a level of dragonfire adept?
I found a third party book: Nymphology by Encyclopedia Arcane. It has a lot of stuff that you may want to look at for Lust if you are still trying to figure her out.
As for the thrall, I would say just make them a basic fighter of some sort. They protect Sloth, but don't overshadow Wrath.
The only reason I'm worried about Wraths AC is because I don't want her to get taken out in 2 rounds. As far as the Dragonfire Adept for a +6 on all Knowledge Checks as well as him being trained in all of them, I think I'm going to pass because I don't feel like adding a level or taking a Swordsage level out and going through all that. He's already trained in all of the Knowledge Skills via Lunatic Insight, although he's not getting a +6 on his Knowledge checks I don't think he'll have trouble getting a +3 or +4 with Knowledge Devotion. For a little while I was thinking about making Pride an Iaijutsu Master and lowering his strength and upping his charisma which would make for a really high initiative (+2 from Lunatic Insight, +4 from improved initiative, and at least a +3 from charisma), intelligence to AC, Knowledge Devotion for additional bonuses, finessing a Katana, iaijutsu damage, and so on. As far as more 3rd party stuff for Lust goes, I don't feel like buying and/or downloading anything else because I think what I have is sufficient enough to make something.
EDIT: So I was thinking what if Sloth makes an Intimidate check or for that matter any skill check and her believers and Thrall do the aid other thing? If all 163 of them roll a 10 thats +326 on a skill check, if half of them (81 not 81.5) roll a 10 thats a +162 on any skill check. I think I know my new diplomancer build lol. Although I'm sure any sane DM wouldn't let all of them aid me, the only instance I can see that happening is if I use Intimidate... "you're going to kill me? You and what army?" then everyone behind me chimes in "ya you and what army."
EDIT: So I was thinking what if Sloth makes an Intimidate check or for that matter any skill check and her believers and Thrall do the aid other thing? If all 163 of them roll a 10 thats +326 on a skill check, if half of them (81 not 81.5) roll a 10 thats a +162 on any skill check. I think I know my new diplomancer build lol. Although I'm sure any sane DM wouldn't let all of them aid me, the only instance I can see that happening is if I use Intimidate... "you're going to kill me? You and what army?" then everyone behind me chimes in "ya you and what army."
I realized this won't work, only people adjacent to you can use the aid other function. Darn.
Not to throw you off or have you requestion any builds, but have you ever considered making Wrath a caster? Specifically, a Blaster? Imagine, someone with a similar temper and power of maybe Vegeta from DBZ. They stand back and blow the f**k out of the party!
I was thinking Twin spell, Repeat Spell, Maximize Spell, these all seem kinda Wrathful if taken in the proper context. Imagine blasting someone with a twin repeating maximized (maybe even empowered) Fireball!
Just an idea I had...
P.S.
If you do decide to explore this, the metaphysical spellshaper for the Book of Erotic Fantasy is a great place to look for softening the blow of the metamagics.
I realized this won't work, only people adjacent to you can use the aid other function. Darn.
You can shrink them all somehow. This is called "nanobots". There is a thread about breaking the game with it on here somewhere...
Lmao at PhaedrusXY. That would be great, especially if all of the cohorts things were Warforged.
About Wrath: Sorry but, I just don't feel like reworking the build (again). I'm also pretty set on a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker because it's very cliché and everyone will expect it. I had the majority of them made at 16th level then upon lowering their levels I completely remade Sloth and Pride and I'm still not sure what to make Lust. One of my friends suggested I look at the Qedeshot from a book called Testament (roleplaying in the Biblical era). The only problem is I don't have the book and I don't feel like looking for a pdf. Maybe I'll just make her a bard/seeker of the song and bardic/seeker music the hell out of everyone. I don't know if 6d6 fire damage for a 12th level character is very much though.
EDIT: I'm also looking at the Arachnomancer from Drow of the Underdark for Lust. I realize that she's a human but, seeing as how all the other races are homebrewed and there are no Drow and I'm allowing some people to play racial specific PrC's if they are similar to the race I think Lust could do it. I think it would make for an interesting twist, they try to sleep with lust and she turns into a Monsterous Spider and summons a swarm of spiders (because she can take the natural spell). Hm... Anyone got any comments on that idea?
O also, I posted this in the ask a simple question get a simple answer thread but, I got mixed answers. Does anyone know how many times you can use a maneuver granted by a Crown of the White Ravens or a similar item? A second question to go along with that is, it says you have to meet the prerequisites of the maneuver to use it but, it also says if you have the most expensive one you can learn up to a 9th level maneuver, so does that mean you don't have to meet the level prerequisites or you do have to? I was thinking about buying Pride a Ring of Diamond Mind so he could Shadow Blink 50ft. then take 2 full round actions.
EDIT: I'm also looking at the Arachnomancer from Drow of the Underdark for Lust. I realize that she's a human but, seeing as how all the other races are homebrewed and there are no Drow and I'm allowing some people to play racial specific PrC's if they are similar to the race I think Lust could do it. I think it would make for an interesting twist, they try to sleep with lust and she turns into a Monsterous Spider and summons a swarm of spiders (because she can take the natural spell). Hm... Anyone got any comments on that idea?
Is this a play on the whole Black Widow thing? If so, I like it.
Ya that would be the idea behind it, I'm not sure how to go into it though. Bards get summon swarm and Beguilers get Spider climb but, I'm not sure if they'd fit. I know a Sorcerer or Wizard would be the easy way to go but, I think Lust should be more socially saavy than a Sorcerer or a Wizard. Anyone got an idea of how she should start her career?
Lmao at PhaedrusXY. That would be great, especially if all of the cohorts things were Warforged.
About Wrath: Sorry but, I just don't feel like reworking the build (again). I'm also pretty set on a Barbarian/Frenzied Berserker because it's very cliché and everyone will expect it. I had the majority of them made at 16th level then upon lowering their levels I completely remade Sloth and Pride and I'm still not sure what to make Lust. One of my friends suggested I look at the Qedeshot from a book called Testament (roleplaying in the Biblical era). The only problem is I don't have the book and I don't feel like looking for a pdf. Maybe I'll just make her a bard/seeker of the song and bardic/seeker music the hell out of everyone. I don't know if 6d6 fire damage for a 12th level character is very much though.
EDIT: I'm also looking at the Arachnomancer from Drow of the Underdark for Lust. I realize that she's a human but, seeing as how all the other races are homebrewed and there are no Drow and I'm allowing some people to play racial specific PrC's if they are similar to the race I think Lust could do it. I think it would make for an interesting twist, they try to sleep with lust and she turns into a Monsterous Spider and summons a swarm of spiders (because she can take the natural spell). Hm... Anyone got any comments on that idea?
O also, I posted this in the ask a simple question get a simple answer thread but, I got mixed answers. Does anyone know how many times you can use a maneuver granted by a Crown of the White Ravens or a similar item? A second question to go along with that is, it says you have to meet the prerequisites of the maneuver to use it but, it also says if you have the most expensive one you can learn up to a 9th level maneuver, so does that mean you don't have to meet the level prerequisites or you do have to? I was thinking about buying Pride a Ring of Diamond Mind so he could Shadow Blink 50ft. then take 2 full round actions.
For Lust have you tried looking at the Book of Erotic Fantasy? you might find what your looking for from base classes to PrC's/feats/skills/etc.
What do you think about this for Lust?
Lust: Wizard (Focused Specialist: Enchanter) 3/Master Specialist 4/Mind Bender 1/Fate Spinner 4. Stats: Str: 12, Dex: 16, Con: 14, Int: 18 or 20, Wis: 10, Cha: 18 or 20. Feats: Spell Focus: Enchantment (Human), Tattoo Focus (1st), Seductive: Men (Flaw 1), Seductive: Women (Flaw 2), Scribe Scroll (Wizard), Shadow Weave Magic (3rd), Skill Focus: Spellcraft (Master Specialist), Extend Spell (6th), Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment (Master Specialist), Mind Sight (9th, Lords of Madness pg. 126, allows her to detect anything within her telepathy range she also knows their type and intelligence score), Quicken Spell (12th). Special: Because Lust is a Focused Specialist her prohibited schools are Evocation, Conjuration, and Transmutation. This being said she can prepare 3 extra enchantment spells per day. People she uses charm spells on don't get a bonus if her or her allies are attacking them also people she uses compulsion spells on don't get a bonus on saves to do something against their nature. She can sense anyone in 100ft. and know their type and Intelligence score, plus a bunch of other goodies.
So what do you guys think about me making Sloths Thrall a Marshall/Crusader that specializes in White Raven Maneuvers? It would be insane, she grants a bunch of level 1 pawns a move action some barbarians rage and charge in, some rogues go in and deal sneak attack damage because of the flanking barbarians, I make a bunch of archers that are scouts and they skirmish. Then on top of that Sloth's sitting around somewhere throwing some weird psionic powers at people. I don't know this could prove to be a death trap for the PC's though. Maybe I should make the encounter with Sloth able to be solved with diplomatics and/or lies instead of having to fight through an army of amazon warriors.
So what do you guys think about me making Sloths Thrall a Marshall/Crusader that specializes in White Raven Maneuvers? It would be insane, she grants a bunch of level 1 pawns a move action some barbarians rage and charge in, some rogues go in and deal sneak attack damage because of the flanking barbarians, I make a bunch of archers that are scouts and they skirmish. Then on top of that Sloth's sitting around somewhere throwing some weird psionic powers at people. I don't know this could prove to be a death trap for the PC's though. Maybe I should make the encounter with Sloth able to be solved with diplomatics and/or lies instead of having to fight through an army of amazon warriors.
First off, my advice is to get attached to PCs not NPCs. Your players should always be around longer than the enemies you create for them to fight.
With that said. Diplomacy should be a viable way to solve the sloth encounter. Remember, Sloth is the epitomy of lazy. Not wanting to move, fight, or even give orders, talking is even a laboring task for this character. If the PCs can speak a few pretty words to convince him they aren't worth his effort, that should be an acceptable finish to the encounter.
BTW, I've been working on a template that I'm applying to all the sins. It is effectively one template that has seven different variants, all of which have certain abilities plus abilities specifically for the sin itself. I call it the [Sin]born template (i.e. Prideborn, Wrathborn, etc.) I will post it if you are interested.
It's not that I'm not attached to the PC's or that I'm attached to the NPC's it's more like the PC's will be put in situations in which if they choose to do something stupid it could kill them and I've told the PC's this already. An example of this is when they were 3rd level they were wandering through plainlands and they came to a lake and there happened to be a Dire Rhino by it (they snuck by which is what they were supposed to do). The reason Sloths Thrall would be a Marshall/Crusader would be so Sloth could sit in her chair while her army takes on the PC's. I'm actually thinking now of adding Justicator or Bloodhound to Sloths Thralls level progression and that Sloth is actually just going to make prisoners out of the PC's rather than annihilate them if they try to take out Sloths army.
I know this is a really minor detail but, does anyone have any suggestions for what Lusts familiar should be if I go the Enchanter route? I was thinking about a snake but, one of the players has a snake as a familiar and happens to be a Beguiler (which is pretty much an Illusionist/Enchanter). I'm thinking something thats rare/exotic but, I don't really have a feat she can spend to get one of the better familiars.
BlackliteLust if you want to post those Templates that'd be cool I had actually thought about doing something similar. Do they have a LA? If they do it might be kind of hard because I don't want them to be higher than they are right now but, I can rework them a little. To be honest I don't really need a Template for Gluttony or Wrath because Gluttony kind of already has 1 that fits his sin (the Glutton Template+the Gape of the Serpent Feat) and the Feral Template pretty much is the Wrath Template the only thing that could make it more Wrathful is if it gave your an additional Rage or an ability during Rage. I'd still like to see them though
Sloth's Powers: 147 Power Points/day. 1 - Conceal Thoughts, Deceleration, Déjà Vu, Inertial Armor, Mind link, Psionic Charm (from Thrallherd). 2 - Aversion, Brain Lock, Psionic Suggestion, Psionic Levitate. 3 - Crisis of Breath, Hostile Empathic Transfer, False Sensory Input, Energy Retort. 4 - Thieving Mindlink, Psionic Modify Memory, Schism, Psionic Dimension Door, Psionic Freedom of Movement, Psionic Dominate (from Thrallherd). 5 - Metaconcert, Mind Probe, Psionic True Seeing. 6 - Mind Switch, Mass Cloud Mind, Remote View Trap. 7 - Crisis of Life.
Pride's Stances: Step of the Wind, Stone Foot Stance, Blood in the Water, Pearl of Black Doubt, Crushing Weight of the Mountain, Hearing the Air.
Maneuvers: 1 - Moment of Perfect Mind, Stone Bones, Charging Minotaur, Counter Charge, Shadow Blade Technique, Distracting Ember, Steel Wind. 2 - Action Before Thought, Emerald Razor, Claw at the Moon. 3 - Mind Over Body, Bone Crusher, Exorcism of Steel, Fan the Flames. 4 - Bounding Assualt, Overwhelming Mountain Strike. 5 - Dancing Mongoose, Disrupting Blow, Shadow Stride. 6 - Iron Heart Endurance, Greater Insightful Strike. 7 - Ancient Mountain Hammer, Avalanche of Blades. (I haven't made sure he meets the prerequisites yet so if he doesn't meet them for a Maneuver that would be why, you can still let me know though because I'm lazy). I haven't put the Maneuver in yet but, Pride will be wearing one of the Crown of White Raven variants (probably the one for Iron Heart).