Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 vociferate Jan 23, 2009 0:21:01	Hi, I am hoping to play in a game in which my character concept borrows a lot from Sandstorm, so keep some of those variants (ranger/barbarian come to mind) for base class and/or flavorings. My idea is to have a sort of desert flavored samurai. I am very much into roleplaying my fighting style out, so this is important. I want him to be a dervish of a warrior, hopefully with an impressive reach and quick samurai attacks. He should be trained at keeping his foe at bay, or maintaining his fighting style if they are in close combat. Oberyn Martell's fighting style (George R. R. Martin), come to mind. Oberyn Martell meets crouching tiger. Keshik of the Golden Horde 1. Fighter 1: F) Combat Reflexes, H) Jotunbrud, A) Dodge 2. Fighter 2: F) ??? 3. M. Monk 1: PW) Combat Expertise, A) Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 4. M. Monk 2: PW) Improved Trip 5. M. Monk 3: 6. Shou Disciple 1: A) ??? 7. Shou Disciple 2: B) ??? 8. Shou Disciple 3: 9. Shou Disciple 4: B) ???, A) ??? 10. Shou Disciple 5: 11. Swordsage 1 12. Swordsage 2 A) ??? 13. Swordsage 3 14. Swordsage 4 15. Swordsage 5 A) ??? 16. Master of the Nine 1 17. Master of the Nine 2 18. Master of the Nine 3 A) ??? 19. Master of the Nine 4 20. Master of the Nine 5 H= Human PW = Passive Way F= Fighter Feat A= Normal Advancement B= Bonus Feat
#2 DeAnno Jan 23, 2009 0:47:38	One thing that I think helps quite a bit with Reach weapons is Monk 1 to let you make unarmed attacks at normal reach while your hands are full. Being unarmored and bouncing around also seems to fit in with the style (depending on the rest of the build and gear availability, you may want to go Monk 2 for Evasion as well). Be sure to look at the fighting style and Martial Monk variants on Crystal Keep, as they let Monk 1&2 take very many possible bonus feats. Specifically, I would suggest a Passive Way Monk 1&2 [DR 310], getting Combat Expertise and Improved Trip without the Int Requirement. Maybe something like: Fighter 1: F) Combat Reflexes, H) Jotunbrud (Races of Faerun), ??? Fighter 2: F) ??? Monk 1: Combat Expertise, ??? Monk 2: Improved Trip Then follow up with Swordsage from Tome of Battle, where you can choose lots of thematic Desert Wind Maneuvers to complement your tripping ability with some damage dealing.
#3 vociferate Jan 23, 2009 0:57:45	Wow, this is great. Exactly what I was looking for. Anyone have other ideas? I am about to check out those sources...
#4 phaedrusxy Jan 23, 2009 1:50:36	Shou Disciple is a 5 level PrC that lets you flurry with any weapon. It is from the Unapproachable East. It also stacks for unarmed strike damage, and probably flurry of blows, also. And it has full BAB and two bonus feats. :D Check the "Raging, Pouncing, something, something monk" link in my sig, and the Half-orc paragon monk link. But especially the first one.
#5 emansdrawkcab Jan 23, 2009 1:56:16	Use a Guisarme, they have the ability to trip and reach. EDIT: I notice some weapons say that you can tip with them because of their design. Is that fluff? Can you trip regardless? What about with Improved Trip, because the feat states it's "part of an attack"?
#6 vociferate Jan 23, 2009 2:24:14	This is working out really well. I can't believe how interrelated the flavor is too. 1. Fighter 1: F) Combat Reflexes, H) Jotunbrud, A) Dodge 2. Fighter 2: F) ??? 3. M. Monk 1: PW) Combat Expertise, A) Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 4. M. Monk 2: PW) Improved Trip 5. M. Monk 3: 6. Shou Disciple 1: A) ??? 7. Shou Disciple 2: B) ??? 8. Shou Disciple 3: 9. Shou Disciple 4: B) ???, A) ??? 10. Shou Disciple 5: 11. Swordsage 1 12. Swordsage 2 A) ??? 13. Swordsage 3 14. Swordsage 4 15. Swordsage 5 A) ??? 16. Master of the Nine 1 17. Master of the Nine 2 18. Master of the Nine 3 A) ??? 19. Master of the Nine 4 20. Master of the Nine 5 H= Human PW = Passive Way F= Fighter Feat A= Normal Advancement B= Bonus Feat Still working on it. I originally had the ???'s filled in with feats to get whirlwind, but I have no idea if that is useful, so I await more advice from the CO's. Since the first PrC was just 5 levels, it sort of makes me want to find a 10 level prc with a funky 10th level ability, since they seem to get them when you complete the levels. Might find some interesting flavor that way too. Any more Monk PrC's to stack with my unarmed damage?
#7 reis Jan 23, 2009 5:50:36	what books are allowed?
#8 cru Jan 23, 2009 6:22:30	1. Fighter 1: F) Combat Reflexes, H) Jotunbrud, A) Dodge 2. Fighter 2: F) ??? 3. Martial Monk 1: PW) Combat Expertise, A) Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 4. Martial Monk 2: PW) Improved Trip 5. Shou Disciple 1: ... Shou Disciple needs 8 ranks in jump. I think you cannot have that many ranks as a 4th level character. I think you must meet the prereqs before taking the PrC. Someone should confirm this (e.g. your DM).
#9 unundindur Jan 23, 2009 7:31:19	Shou Disciple needs 8 ranks in jump. I think you cannot have that many ranks as a 4th level character. I think you must meet the prereqs before taking the PrC. Someone should confirm this (e.g. your DM). /Confirm I agree that a monk/swordsage/shou disciple should work out well. Maybe add in some master of the nine and fighter too... Suddenly that would look alot like my favourite monk build: monk4/Swordsage4/Fighter4/Shou Disciple3/Master of the Nine5 No multiclass penalty, BaB 16, quite a lot of maneuvers and a whole bunch of feats. As for the guisarme, with only 3 levels of Shou disciple you won't be able to flurry with it, but you could exchange 2 levels of master of the nine for that.
#10 jameswilliamogle Jan 23, 2009 10:58:17	I'd pick up more Swordsage were I you. The unarmed swordsage varient would fit in well w/o Monk.
#11 vociferate Jan 23, 2009 12:09:29	Ok thanks for the suggestions. I was going off of DracoNova's observation over at http://bb.bbboy.net/niftymessageboard-viewthread?forum=6&thread=555 I didn't check it out myself I'm not sure that's the best build for a Shou Disciple character. I'd considered building one for a game a while back, too, but I'd decided to start mine off with a couple of Fighter levels (for the bonus feats, which take some of the sting out of the two "wasted" feats required for the Shou Disciple). The two classes share the skill with the highest number of required ranks, Jump, and if your character's Intelligence is high enough, the Balance and Tumble requirements are easy to hit by pouring Monk skill points into them without having to burn Fighter skill points on them cross-class (although you don't really lose a lot by doing so, given how badly the Fighter class skill list bites). Using that method, a character should be able to take Shou Disciple levels by level 5 (Fighter 2 / Monk 2 meets the BAB and save requirements, and the feats and skills can be met as described above). The character is still one BAB down from a straight warrior-type, but that's pretty much unavoidable...although I suppose going Ranger instead of Monk could work without the BAB, given the Ranger's better Reflex save in 3.5. Such a character would have to burn a feat on Improved Unarmed, and would have to go cross-class on Balance and Tumble (not as much of a problem, with the Ranger's increased skill points), but he or she could start Shou Disciple by level 5, as well (since the cross-class skill limits would come into play), and would not be out a BAB. DracoNova is wrong, i take it?
#12 vociferate Jan 23, 2009 12:15:28	what books are allowed? I am using everything except psionics
#13 vociferate Jan 23, 2009 13:45:42	Ok, so I really really like where this build is going... but my rampant RPing side of my brain is wondering if I could turn this guy into a viable Keshik. A Keshik was the famed mongolian light calvary during the Golden Horde era, practically a royal bodyguard, as a European example. They were excellent mounted archers. One of their most renowned tactics was a feigned retreat, where they ran away and, at a certain distance, pivoted and loaded their attack full of arrows. Mongolian footsoldiers fought with polearms, and thus the whole flavor just pours together. I am afraid if I try to get too RP I might cripple the build though. So I am thinking of replacing Master of the Nine with Cragtop Archer, and then hopefully working with the DM to swap a couple feats to make him a Mounted Archer. Would I be crippling the combat advantages of the Master of the Nine?
#14 jameswilliamogle Jan 23, 2009 14:52:40	As long as you stay focused with one concept, you shouldn't be hurting the character too much... That said, I'm getting two kinds of vibes here: Mounted Archer, and TWF-Samurai-style; I think mixing them effectively could be tough.
#15 winternacht Jan 24, 2009 12:33:24	Maybe you want to check this out, which may free up some levels, cause you don't need Shou Disciple...
#16 phaedrusxy Jan 24, 2009 15:14:13	Maybe you want to check this out, which may free up some levels, cause you don't need Shou Disciple... Wow... very nice.